Home Instance Boost

[kharmin.7683]

@Haaznahnuff.1907 said:TLdR: Instead of being like half-dead back rooms, home instances should be like their names just sound, like fully fleshed, all-heroes headquarters (of course, only one of them being played).I would prefer Anet spend their resources elsewhere on facets of GW2 that engage a larger portion of the player base. I haven't added any upgrades to my home instance because I never use it. Out of my small play-group, only one player has any upgrades as the rest don't use theirs either. Anet probably has the metrics to show who is using home instances and to what degree as well as guild halls. Since they haven't really put anything more into either, I'm guessing that neither of them is as popular as one might think.

[Haaznahnuff.1907]

I read you, but on this account, all starting areas and most parts of capitals would be deserted as well, once exploration is done. Yet they are finely animated, and home instances could have received a tenth of this love. But I have the feeling that designers didn't have a clear idea of what to do with home instances for starting: a gallery for personal trophies without shelters (the resource nodes, a late addition, are "dumped" in what looks random or rather, most "convenient" places, that is a few hops from the entrance), a private housing without housing (because it was against lore, a homestead is not a private location, and it could have competed with other places of socialization in game), ... so new players are enticed, and then, they are left with an empty shell. Nobody, except the purest role players would like to return to an empty shell, you are right.

The concept of a whole instanced district of a town was an original and promising idea, though, once you get accustomed to both the instanced personal and living story mechanics. In a solo game, the whole cities could have been customized according to the player's feats, and it was reasonable, in a MP game, to limit this customization to a small part only. Thus, we all share the same cities, and at the same time, we are all the one defender of Tyria, the killer of the dragon, and the main actor of ours parallel stories. Home instances could have played for invited groups and solo players the role Guild Halls are promised to play for guilds.

Yet, we had home instances from release day on, when guilds were still quite fledging... Correcting the injustice now, making home instances as animated as other districts, would be diverting resources, for sure, but to what amount, as compared to an episode of the Living World?

It happens that after posting my previous message, I just noticed that home instances are now used by the secondary chronicles, as per my 1st point (a rendez-vous with a NPC). A good start!

[kharmin.7683]

@"Haaznahnuff.1907" said:I read you, but on this account, all starting areas and most parts of capitals would be deserted as well, once exploration is done. Yet they are finely animated, and home instances could have received a tenth of this love. But I have the feeling that designers didn't have a clear idea of what to do with home instances for starting: a gallery for personal trophies without shelters (the resource nodes, a late addition, are "dumped" in what looks random or rather, most "convenient" places, that is a few hops from the entrance), a private housing without housing (because it was against lore, a homestead is not a private location, and it could have competed with other places of socialization in game), ... so new players are enticed, and then, they are left with an empty shell. Nobody, except the purest role players would like to return to an empty shell, you are right.

Capitals aren't instanced content and have resources there that all players can use. IMO, these are two entirely different things and the capitals should have more attention as they are used by more players.

The concept of a whole instanced district of a town was an original and promising idea, though, once you get accustomed to both the instanced personal and living story mechanics. In a solo game, the whole cities could have been customized according to the player's feats, and it was reasonable, in a MP game, to limit this customization to a small part only. Thus, we all share the same cities, and at the same time, we are all the one defender of Tyria, the killer of the dragon, and the main actor of ours parallel stories. Home instances could have played for invited groups and solo players the role Guild Halls are promised to play for guilds.

As we are often told, despite how many play GW2 in that way, the game is not a solo player game but an MMO. It makes sense to me to not dedicate resources to solo-centric things.

Yet, we had home instances from release day on, when guilds were still quite fledging... Correcting the injustice now, making home instances as animated as other districts, would be diverting resources, for sure, but to what amount, as compared to an episode of the Living World?

Yeah, I don't know why these were ever a thing to begin with. And we can't know how much would be diverted -- perhaps a lot, maybe not so much. Still, I would prefer that resources be aimed more toward open content rather than instanced, solo content. This is also why I am against the implementation of player housing. But that's my preference.

It happens that after posting my previous message, I just noticed that home instances are now used by the secondary chronicles, as per my 1st point (a rendez-vous with a NPC). A good start!Who knew?

[costepj.5120]

When do I get the return on my investment in all those hungry cats?

[Orion Templar.4589]

I'd simply like to have a way (maybe a gem store item?) to have all my home nodes harvested instantly. So I'd go into my home instance, talk to my new NPC service, and instantly have all the items added to my inventory. I know that probably sounds lazy, but after having walked the same home path harvesting path nearly every day for many many months, I'm ready for some time savings.

[Donari.5237]

@Orion Templar.4589 said:I'd simply like to have a way (maybe a gem store item?) to have all my home nodes harvested instantly. So I'd go into my home instance, talk to my new NPC service, and instantly have all the items added to my inventory. I know that probably sounds lazy, but after having walked the same home path harvesting path nearly every day for many many months, I'm ready for some time savings.

This might get me actually daily going there. While I'm far from a full instance node-wise, I've collected enough nodes for it plus some garden plots that I'm in for some real tedium gathering everything. I've stopped buying/collecting new nodes since I bother to use them maybe once a month if that. If I only had to zone in with some bag space available, and maybe still manually need to open the bandit chest or other things that claim a limited currency to access, I'd find much greater utility.

Come to think of it though -- gathering wood/plants/ore uses gathering tools. So players that don't have unbreakable ones might need an option to not gather those things automatically. And how would this affect visiting players? Do they get to auto gather in someone else's instance? Last I heard the garden plots either can't be gathered by guests or can only be gathered if the host hasn't used them yet that day; if the host auto-gathers everything on arrival, does that completely bar others from the gardens?

This is more complicated than I thought at first glance :)

[Vavume.8065]

@costepj.5120 said:When do I get the return on my investment in all those hungry cats?

The cat commanders was quite a heavy investment, but watching them scrim a few times was so worth it.

[kharmin.7683]

@Orion Templar.4589 said:I'd simply like to have a way (maybe a gem store item?) to have all my home nodes harvested instantly. So I'd go into my home instance, talk to my new NPC service, and instantly have all the items added to my inventory. I know that probably sounds lazy, but after having walked the same home path harvesting path nearly every day for many many months, I'm ready for some time savings.

I'd like to simply log in and get a legendary of my choice.

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

I would not want more Home Instance additions to be dependent on the character using it having to be the same race as where the Home Instance is located. Since I use characters that have completed Story that enables certain NPCs (such as M.O.X.), and they aren't of the race that correlates to my preferred Home Instance.

[Haaznahnuff.1907]

Imagine, you put a bed at one place in one instance, and you want it to be at the right place in another instance???

Home instances are visited at least once by every character, the same as any other city district. For those ones, they should appear at least as another district, and my point is that they should have been ever better, as compared to a "standard" district, just because they are home of Tyrian champions. Now, I understand if lore-wise, populated centers (festivals, markets, economic seats (hubs), etc) are more populated and animated.The second point is, that in the character's home instance proper, there should have been more material related to the personal story, and there could be more personalization options.Even in a MMO game, I think that both these expectations are reasonable, and more so if new players are scheduled to come, who won't necessarily be formatted by GW1 o WoW and other MMOs. The personal story and its instanced content have always been considered as an important stage for the new player's initiation, to familiarize them to the duality of a MMO world and instanced high level content. I agree that once initiation is over, the player has no need of its material. If I said that designers didn't now what to do with home instances, its because, as you say, they could have been replaced from the start by a public area with a green star to enter an instanced version of this area, just as what is done with most of the personal story instances. I'm sure that they would have been more polished in that case. No, on the contrary, they chose to keep them instanced even after initiation is completed (for the player) and an order is integrated (for the character). I believe this choice and the lack of correction afterwards could arm the consistency of the game, for any new player sensible enough to RP, as I was. Yes, from a RP point of view, I would rather get rid of home instances, as they are useless and armful as empty as they are (better integrate their content to the world). From a RP point of you, who seriously cares of a NPC that only says "Hello"?

Now on metrics (the everlasting controversy), the question is less "what metrics say on their usage", than "where do we want players to spend a small part of their time" and "how much do we want to be consistent to new players" (that is being toward a less following and a more directive design on the scale, even if feedback, adaptation, and retro-action are all necessary). Overcrowded hubs are fun to watch but at times laggy. Having like 10% less people here on the average wouldn't be a loss, if those people still use the hubs anyway (for a less time, not less often).

[kharmin.7683]

@"Haaznahnuff.1907" said:Imagine, you put a bed at one place in one instance, and you want it to be at the right place in another instance???

Home instances are visited at least once by every character, the same as any other city district. For those ones, they should appear at least as another district, and my point is that they should have been ever better, as compared to a "standard" district, just because they are home of Tyrian champions. Now, I understand if lore-wise, populated centers (festivals, markets, economic seats (hubs), etc) are more populated and animated.I have 11 characters on my account. Only 2-3 have ever been in their home instance for anything. The others haven't even run chapter 1 of the personal story.

The second point is, that in the character's home instance proper, there should have been more material related to the personal story, and there could be more personalization options.Personally, I don't see why. Again, for all intents and purposes, I never enter my home instance.

Even in a MMO game, I think that both these expectations are reasonable, and more so if new players are scheduled to come, who won't necessarily be formatted by GW1 o WoW and other MMOs. The personal story and its instanced content have always been considered as an important stage for the new player's initiation, to familiarize them to the duality of a MMO world and instanced high level content. I agree that once initiation is over, the player has no need of its material. If I said that designers didn't now what to do with home instances, its because, as you say, they could have been replaced from the start by a public area with a green star to enter an instanced version of this area, just as what is done with most of the personal story instances. I'm sure that they would have been more polished in that case. No, on the contrary, they chose to keep them instanced even after initiation is completed (for the player) and an order is integrated (for the character). I believe this choice and the lack of correction afterwards could arm the consistency of the game, for any new player sensible enough to RP, as I was. Yes, from a RP point of view, I would rather get rid of home instances, as they are useless and armful as empty as they are (better integrate their content to the world). From a RP point of you, who seriously cares of a NPC that only says "Hello"?So ... after an initial period, the home instance is no longer needed? I can agree with that.

Now on metrics (the everlasting controversy), the question is less "what metrics say on their usage", than "where do we want players to spend a small part of their time" and "how much do we want to be consistent to new players" (that is being toward a less following and a more directive design on the scale, even if feedback, adaptation, and retro-action are all necessary). Overcrowded hubs are fun to watch but at times laggy. Having like 10% less people here on the average wouldn't be a loss, if those people still use the hubs anyway (for a less time, not less often).So, are you advocating for more resources to be spent on home instances in the hope that it would drive 10% of a hub-map into said instances and reduce some lag?

[Steve The Cynic.3217]

Something I said on another thread, about the Skyscale timegate, but relevant to the value of home instance nodes, and why you should harvest them religiously:

Re: Charged Quartz Crystals: I have 171 left after making the food and the Grow Lamp.

Lesson: if acquiring a timegated resource is essentially free, acquire it at every opportunity even if you see no immediate (or distant) need for it. Why? Because one day there might be a reason to use it, and you'll be kicking yourself if you could have made it along the way but didn't.

Go round Dry Top and mine all the Quartz nodes (Charged Quartz drops on a semi-rare chance), and visit someone's home instance for another Quartz node and a Krait Obelisk Shard to convert 25 ordinary Quartz Crystals in to a Charged one. You can get more than one Charged Quartz per day.

Translation: I'm not really very sympathetic about the complaints from long-time players about Charged Quartz. For new players coming to this after playing only for a short time, sure, it's a problem, but not for long-time players.

Before you say it: yes, of course there's no significant "for purpose X" reason to make CQCs in the absence of the Skyscale collection. I made them anyway, mostly because I had the node and might as well use it, but also in case I found a use for them. See the lesson up above.

All the nodes that drop materials from LS maps should be harvested daily, and the Krait Obelisk whenever you have enough Quartz, so you get a jumpstart on that future requirement for the material in a collection. That is their value. (No, it doesn't need to be your nodes, but you should be harvesting someone's nodes.) I had those CQCs already, which meant that when the Skyscale collections arrived, I could just go buy those parts without really noticing the cost of the CQCs, since that purchase left me with more than 170...

For ordinary materials, it's less compelling, of course.

[Haaznahnuff.1907]

@"kharmin.7683" said:So ... after an initial period, the home instance is no longer needed? I can agree with that.Yeah, either they get overhauled and thus useful for those who would like to spend a little time in there (personalisation requires instantiation), or they get overhauled (animated up to the standard of the rest of the cities) and integrated as another district. No more green star, beyond those necessary for the personal story. Even personal resource nodes could be regrouped in a public, remote area in cities, or even a single one at the Arch or in the Mists (a museum?), with all nodes presented but only collected by legit owners that unlocked them.Better if done (either way) before looking for audience on Steam, I'd say.

So, are you advocating for more resources to be spent on home instances in the hope that it would drive 10% of a hub-map into said instances and reduce some lag?Don't twist my point please. I'm just adding another reason for devs to show more interest to home instances, in hope that it could decide them to act. Because it was a counter-argument some years ago, and it's pretty safe now to say that making home instances more appealing won't penalize neither "socialization" places, nor guild halls. They are limited to a single group of players. Metrics should also inform us that arranging so that only guilds are "appealing" for RP, has not pushed everybody into guilds (excluding account guilds/vaults of old that have been ported until now). It's not a matter of being a MMO (some MMOs do have homes for players), and it's not a matter that RPG should resort exclusively to public interaction between PCs, which are limited for now to /emote, talk, and consumables (they need a background, a scenery, an ambient world too).

Well, I'm becoming dry on the topic, and you?

[Shadowmoon.7986]

Does anyone complain about the roi of the home instance cats. For most people, the home instance nodes have the same value of as the cat, or legndary runes, or spending 1000 gold for a title, or the worst roi, the guild hall decorations. It is something for people to do.

[Seven Star Stalker.1740]

@leila.7962 said:All that I would care about on home instance nodes would be an update so players could place them wherever they wanted (like a guild hall decoration), instead of spreading them all over the place.. it would be neat to have them all balled up at the door ready to be gathered :3

Related to this: Jade Shards from LS3 in Asura home instance are located in an obscure corner at the very edge of the map. I hate it.

[SpellboundTutor.4257]

I definitely think home instances could use more love beyond harvesting nodes, personally. I would love the ability to earnTrophy furnishings. Even if they're purely cosmetic and they have to be placed in a static position in the home instance to conserve data, would be super cool! Or a jukebox furnishing that changes the music in your home instance based on collectable achievements? Gathering Nodes are super nice, don't get me wrong, but at the same time, I'd love to have other things too, like a "Spiritual Armor Rack" with Justicar Habilon's Armor on it, which could be earned by beating Ghostly Justicar Habilon as a rare drop, or Drakkar's head mounted up on a wall somewhere.

As for the harvesting nodes being "not worth it", I like them for convenience's sake. Every day, I can earn a little bit by harvesting my home instance instead of going out of my way to farm a map I may or may not want to farm that day, maybe for multiple days, to get an item I want later, or maybe I need Unbound/Volatile Magic for something? Farm up all the LWS3/4 nodes, consume them all for Magic, and I'll be that much closer to what I want instead of spending a day farming a specific map, maybe on multiple characters.

It's very much a convenience thing. Does it pay dividends? That's up to who you ask. Some people may only be able to play an hour or two a day and the nodes are a great investment, some people may be able to play 18 hours a day and can farm those maps without any need for those nodes at all. I'm personally not looking to make a profit off home instance nodes and I think anyone who -only- looks to profit from home instance nodes is a bit short-sighted.