Astralporing.1957 Posted June 8, 2020 Share Posted June 8, 2020 @Shade.8971 said:@Hannelore.8153 said:@Shade.8971 said:Can those infusions go higher than +9AR? I feel they lose value at least in fractals if I have to give up my +11 & +13 for them.You only need 150 AR in Fractals and that means +9 on armor and trinkets and +5 in weapons. You spend more on trying to get more powerful infusions than just crafting full Ascended gear (with the Mark system), and infusing the trinkets.What if you take fractal masteries in question? Is it worth giving up the stat gains of 200+ AR for being stuck around 150AR but with stat infusions?Remember, that both precision and concentration have effective caps (100% crit chance, and 100% boon duration) so there's a limit to how high you might want them. And while more toughness is always nice, by going more AR, you are deciding to trade that slightly increased survivability for more damage you might have had if you just slotted more power. Although, basically, in either case the improvement you'll get will be minimal. Especially when comparing to the cost.@Roche.7491 said:@LadyKitty.6120 said:That base power only applies if you don't have ANY power from gears, boons and might. With full power dps gears, banners, consumables and might, pure power dpsers usually have over 3600 power (some reaching over 4000) and adding 90 to that means 2,5% at most. For condis, the infusions are slightly more effective since they start from 0 for both expertise and conditions damage and condi damage is only affected by those 2 stats while power is affected by 3 (power+prec+fero).Wiki gives basic knowledge to use as basis for maths, but getting actual numbers requires some math by understanding how they work and combining stuff from various related articles. Or you can just test in-game with stuffs on to get exact values.Can you provide your computation on how you arrived with the 2.5% increase?Sure. (90/3600)=0.025. That's 2.5%. Basic math.Obviously, it's even less than 2.5 with power above 3600 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...

Roche.7491 Posted June 8, 2020 Author Share Posted June 8, 2020 @LadyKitty.6120 said:@Roche.7491 said:@LadyKitty.6120 said:@Roche.7491 said:@Cyninja.2954 said:@Roche.7491 said:@Shade.8971 said:@Hannelore.8153 said:@Shade.8971 said:Can those infusions go higher than +9AR? I feel they lose value at least in fractals if I have to give up my +11 & +13 for them.You only need 150 AR in Fractals and that means +9 on armor and trinkets and +5 in weapons. You spend more on trying to get more powerful infusions than just crafting full Ascended gear (with the Mark system), and infusing the trinkets.What if you take fractal masteries in question? Is it worth giving up the stat gains of 200+ AR for being stuck around 150AR but with stat infusions?Yes as only need 150 ar for a party to accept you in fractal.The 10% increase in damage will help when you are alone doing quests, collections, raid, strike & wvw.Stat infusion are no where near 10% in damage increase.This was mentioned in the other thread: a full set of stat infusions nets around 1k dps bonus, that's around 3%-5% damage increase at best. Also the question was:Is it worth to forgo the stat bonus to toughness, precision and concentration from the additional agony resistance in favor of non agony stat infusions.Simple answer here: if you are NOT crit capped, very likely not since the additional precision alone will provide more damage than the non agony infusions or at least a similar amount.As for quests, nothing in open world content requires stat infusions. NOTHING. As far as raids and wvw, sure, free bonus stats are nice. Given many players run 1 set for all content, it thus becomes a question of: do you reduce your performance in 1 area (fractals), to improve it in another?Technically it is 10% increase from BASE power. 100 power is 10%.“At level 80, all professions have a base amount of 1000 power. Adding an additional 1000 power would double a character's damage“https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/PowerThat base power only applies if you don't have ANY power from gears, boons and might. With full power dps gears, banners, consumables and might, pure power dpsers usually have over 3600 power (some reaching over 4000) and adding 90 to that means 2,5% at most. For condis, the infusions are slightly more effective since they start from 0 for both expertise and conditions damage and condi damage is only affected by those 2 stats while power is affected by 3 (power+prec+fero).Wiki gives basic knowledge to use as basis for maths, but getting actual numbers requires some math by understanding how they work and combining stuff from various related articles. Or you can just test in-game with stuffs on to get exact values.It’s the developers point of view. Yours is your current character condition’s point of view which varies depending on the type of set up per character.And your computation will be something like this for example:Berserker set with buffs, food 1%Berserker set with no buff 2%Mix berserker & marauder 2.5%Marauder set 3%Valkyrie set 3.5%Valkyrie setViper set 3%Grieving set 4%Level 50 berserker set 5%Level 30 berserker set 8%Exotic 8.5%Rare 9%More of just say 1-9% since you have no computations at all and just own personal estimate which differs from people to people. One will say 2% the other 3.5% the other 4%Please tell how 3690 power divided by 3600 isn't 1.025 aka. 2.5% dps boost when precision and ferocity stay the same? Just in case you aren't aware, there's lots of tools for mathing, like gw2skills.net, Snowcrows' build optimizer and you can also go to special forces training area and set realistic boon/banner/consumable setup to get exact values.And for another example of damage formula, you get condi damage infusions' effect through100% - non-condi damage% in arcdps = condi dmg% of total damageCdamage with infusions / Cdamage without infusions = Cdamage boost% from infusions.Total damage boost% from infusions on condi build = Cdamage boost% from infusions x condi damage% of total damage.Viper's dpser usually has about 1800 Cdamage before might (2500-2600ish with might, cFB has 3k'ish) and 80-85% of total damage is condi damage. Thus if you add condi damage infusions...100% - 15% = 85%2690 / 2600 = 1,03461...0,03461 x 0,85 = 0.02942... aka. 2,94% boost from condi infusions at 2600 combat condi damage and 85% Cdmg of total dps.So, Kitty's now shown 2 of the 4 basic formulas of how much infusions add in real end-game PVE situations. Other 2 are expertise and precision which are more annoying and people hate excessive math anyway. And that's how the game engine itself works and you can find pretty much same formulas in the wiki itself if you dig a bit deeper.Ps. If you intend to use Marauder in endgame PvE, you're playing very inoptimally to begin with and infusions have lower effect due to lower crit damage multiplier from ferocity than zerker's has. A couple pieces of valkyrie only works if you already have guaranteed crit overcap nullifying some of the excess precision from berserker's and thus Valkyrie working the same as berserker's (though converting wasted prec to vit) as long as it stays at 100% crit rate. Full Valkyrie set is massive dps loss on everything except Decimate Defenses Power Reaper which by itself is slightly inoptimal compared to Soul Eater Reaper.Don’t assume everyone one is using berserker.Currently using Marauder on a deadeye. The extra 5k-8k hp helps a lot in surviving dps spikes or tanking boss burst. Every one hates resurrecting a dead player. It brings the dps down. Worst, I experienced a berserker who thief brought the entire party down due to resurrecting him. Current crit rate is already about 105%+ not counting team/food crit buff yet on a marauder.7% from weapon20% from fury5% from crit strike spec7% from crit behind skill5%-10% from signetsMarauder also has higher overall stat in every gear than berserker.a full berserker deadeye, will only last 2 sec in a 1v1 pvp, squishy. Also conditions will have a higher % dps to serkers.60-70% hp inc is no joke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...

LadyKitty.6120 Posted June 8, 2020 Share Posted June 8, 2020 @Roche.7491 said:@LadyKitty.6120 said:@Roche.7491 said:@LadyKitty.6120 said:@Roche.7491 said:@Cyninja.2954 said:@Roche.7491 said:@Shade.8971 said:@Hannelore.8153 said:@Shade.8971 said:Can those infusions go higher than +9AR? I feel they lose value at least in fractals if I have to give up my +11 & +13 for them.You only need 150 AR in Fractals and that means +9 on armor and trinkets and +5 in weapons. You spend more on trying to get more powerful infusions than just crafting full Ascended gear (with the Mark system), and infusing the trinkets.What if you take fractal masteries in question? Is it worth giving up the stat gains of 200+ AR for being stuck around 150AR but with stat infusions?Yes as only need 150 ar for a party to accept you in fractal.The 10% increase in damage will help when you are alone doing quests, collections, raid, strike & wvw.Stat infusion are no where near 10% in damage increase.This was mentioned in the other thread: a full set of stat infusions nets around 1k dps bonus, that's around 3%-5% damage increase at best. Also the question was:Is it worth to forgo the stat bonus to toughness, precision and concentration from the additional agony resistance in favor of non agony stat infusions.Simple answer here: if you are NOT crit capped, very likely not since the additional precision alone will provide more damage than the non agony infusions or at least a similar amount.As for quests, nothing in open world content requires stat infusions. NOTHING. As far as raids and wvw, sure, free bonus stats are nice. Given many players run 1 set for all content, it thus becomes a question of: do you reduce your performance in 1 area (fractals), to improve it in another?Technically it is 10% increase from BASE power. 100 power is 10%.“At level 80, all professions have a base amount of 1000 power. Adding an additional 1000 power would double a character's damage“https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/PowerThat base power only applies if you don't have ANY power from gears, boons and might. With full power dps gears, banners, consumables and might, pure power dpsers usually have over 3600 power (some reaching over 4000) and adding 90 to that means 2,5% at most. For condis, the infusions are slightly more effective since they start from 0 for both expertise and conditions damage and condi damage is only affected by those 2 stats while power is affected by 3 (power+prec+fero).Wiki gives basic knowledge to use as basis for maths, but getting actual numbers requires some math by understanding how they work and combining stuff from various related articles. Or you can just test in-game with stuffs on to get exact values.It’s the developers point of view. Yours is your current character condition’s point of view which varies depending on the type of set up per character.And your computation will be something like this for example:Berserker set with buffs, food 1%Berserker set with no buff 2%Mix berserker & marauder 2.5%Marauder set 3%Valkyrie set 3.5%Valkyrie setViper set 3%Grieving set 4%Level 50 berserker set 5%Level 30 berserker set 8%Exotic 8.5%Rare 9%More of just say 1-9% since you have no computations at all and just own personal estimate which differs from people to people. One will say 2% the other 3.5% the other 4%Please tell how 3690 power divided by 3600 isn't 1.025 aka. 2.5% dps boost when precision and ferocity stay the same? Just in case you aren't aware, there's lots of tools for mathing, like gw2skills.net, Snowcrows' build optimizer and you can also go to special forces training area and set realistic boon/banner/consumable setup to get exact values.And for another example of damage formula, you get condi damage infusions' effect through100% - non-condi damage% in arcdps = condi dmg% of total damageCdamage with infusions / Cdamage without infusions = Cdamage boost% from infusions.Total damage boost% from infusions on condi build = Cdamage boost% from infusions x condi damage% of total damage.Viper's dpser usually has about 1800 Cdamage before might (2500-2600ish with might, cFB has 3k'ish) and 80-85% of total damage is condi damage. Thus if you add condi damage infusions...100% - 15% = 85%2690 / 2600 = 1,03461...0,03461 x 0,85 = 0.02942... aka. 2,94% boost from condi infusions at 2600 combat condi damage and 85% Cdmg of total dps.So, Kitty's now shown 2 of the 4 basic formulas of how much infusions add in real end-game PVE situations. Other 2 are expertise and precision which are more annoying and people hate excessive math anyway. And that's how the game engine itself works and you can find pretty much same formulas in the wiki itself if you dig a bit deeper.Ps. If you intend to use Marauder in endgame PvE, you're playing very inoptimally to begin with and infusions have lower effect due to lower crit damage multiplier from ferocity than zerker's has. A couple pieces of valkyrie only works if you already have guaranteed crit overcap nullifying some of the excess precision from berserker's and thus Valkyrie working the same as berserker's (though converting wasted prec to vit) as long as it stays at 100% crit rate. Full Valkyrie set is massive dps loss on everything except Decimate Defenses Power Reaper which by itself is slightly inoptimal compared to Soul Eater Reaper.Don’t assume everyone one is using berserker.Currently using Marauder on a deadeye. The extra 5k-7k hp helps a lot in surviving dps spikes or tanking boss burst. Every one hates resurrecting a dead player. It brings the dps way down.Current crit rate is already about 105%+ not counting team/food crit buff yet on a marauder.7% from weapon20% from fury5% from crit strike spec7% from crit behind skill5%-10% from signetsMarauder also has higher overall stat than berserker. Bonus stat!Also a full serker deadeye, you’ll last 2 sec in pvp. Also conditions will have a higher % dps to serkers.Full zerker with Invigorating Precision is actually tankier than partly Marauder thief due to damage healing and thus more damage=more heals. If you're worried about taking damage and not healing fast enough, play staff DD and you're playing 2nd tankiest dps build in the game, only scrapper being tankier. Extra buffer HP in endgame PVE just meant you die a tiny bit slower if you don't have heals to sustain.If you're using precision food and you're at 105% crit rate, you're wasting 101 stats. You'd be both tankier and doing more damage by using Valkyrie pieces to convert those wasted 101 prec to vitality. No power nor fero lost like you do with Marauder's.Signet of Agility is fixed 8.57% crit rate, not "5-10%".Marauder is 4-stat combo, yeah. But at full set, having vitality as minor stat is still a dps loss compared to zerker's, especially since it nerfs power+fero which affect damage itself. Valkyrie doesn't eat touch damage itself.How PVP is relevant to conversation about infusions?!? Hopefully you meant WvW and yeah, there you need extra survivability but enemy targets don't have 24M HP either and damage doesn't need to be optimized. But in PVE, dpser's job is to dps as well as possible, though occasionally taking certain skills to deal with mechs help but that's skills, not gears. If you have survival issues in raids/fractals, either you're failing mechs or healer doesn't heal enough (usually #GitGud issue). And since this conversation is in fractals/raids/strikes section, this thread is about endgame PVE supposedly, thus about dpsing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...

Roche.7491 Posted June 8, 2020 Author Share Posted June 8, 2020 @LadyKitty.6120 said:@Roche.7491 said:@LadyKitty.6120 said:@Roche.7491 said:@LadyKitty.6120 said:@Roche.7491 said:@Cyninja.2954 said:@Roche.7491 said:@Shade.8971 said:@Hannelore.8153 said:@Shade.8971 said:Can those infusions go higher than +9AR? I feel they lose value at least in fractals if I have to give up my +11 & +13 for them.You only need 150 AR in Fractals and that means +9 on armor and trinkets and +5 in weapons. You spend more on trying to get more powerful infusions than just crafting full Ascended gear (with the Mark system), and infusing the trinkets.What if you take fractal masteries in question? Is it worth giving up the stat gains of 200+ AR for being stuck around 150AR but with stat infusions?Yes as only need 150 ar for a party to accept you in fractal.The 10% increase in damage will help when you are alone doing quests, collections, raid, strike & wvw.Stat infusion are no where near 10% in damage increase.This was mentioned in the other thread: a full set of stat infusions nets around 1k dps bonus, that's around 3%-5% damage increase at best. Also the question was:Is it worth to forgo the stat bonus to toughness, precision and concentration from the additional agony resistance in favor of non agony stat infusions.Simple answer here: if you are NOT crit capped, very likely not since the additional precision alone will provide more damage than the non agony infusions or at least a similar amount.As for quests, nothing in open world content requires stat infusions. NOTHING. As far as raids and wvw, sure, free bonus stats are nice. Given many players run 1 set for all content, it thus becomes a question of: do you reduce your performance in 1 area (fractals), to improve it in another?Technically it is 10% increase from BASE power. 100 power is 10%.“At level 80, all professions have a base amount of 1000 power. Adding an additional 1000 power would double a character's damage“https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/PowerThat base power only applies if you don't have ANY power from gears, boons and might. With full power dps gears, banners, consumables and might, pure power dpsers usually have over 3600 power (some reaching over 4000) and adding 90 to that means 2,5% at most. For condis, the infusions are slightly more effective since they start from 0 for both expertise and conditions damage and condi damage is only affected by those 2 stats while power is affected by 3 (power+prec+fero).Wiki gives basic knowledge to use as basis for maths, but getting actual numbers requires some math by understanding how they work and combining stuff from various related articles. Or you can just test in-game with stuffs on to get exact values.It’s the developers point of view. Yours is your current character condition’s point of view which varies depending on the type of set up per character.And your computation will be something like this for example:Berserker set with buffs, food 1%Berserker set with no buff 2%Mix berserker & marauder 2.5%Marauder set 3%Valkyrie set 3.5%Valkyrie setViper set 3%Grieving set 4%Level 50 berserker set 5%Level 30 berserker set 8%Exotic 8.5%Rare 9%More of just say 1-9% since you have no computations at all and just own personal estimate which differs from people to people. One will say 2% the other 3.5% the other 4%Please tell how 3690 power divided by 3600 isn't 1.025 aka. 2.5% dps boost when precision and ferocity stay the same? Just in case you aren't aware, there's lots of tools for mathing, like gw2skills.net, Snowcrows' build optimizer and you can also go to special forces training area and set realistic boon/banner/consumable setup to get exact values.And for another example of damage formula, you get condi damage infusions' effect through100% - non-condi damage% in arcdps = condi dmg% of total damageCdamage with infusions / Cdamage without infusions = Cdamage boost% from infusions.Total damage boost% from infusions on condi build = Cdamage boost% from infusions x condi damage% of total damage.Viper's dpser usually has about 1800 Cdamage before might (2500-2600ish with might, cFB has 3k'ish) and 80-85% of total damage is condi damage. Thus if you add condi damage infusions...100% - 15% = 85%2690 / 2600 = 1,03461...0,03461 x 0,85 = 0.02942... aka. 2,94% boost from condi infusions at 2600 combat condi damage and 85% Cdmg of total dps.So, Kitty's now shown 2 of the 4 basic formulas of how much infusions add in real end-game PVE situations. Other 2 are expertise and precision which are more annoying and people hate excessive math anyway. And that's how the game engine itself works and you can find pretty much same formulas in the wiki itself if you dig a bit deeper.Ps. If you intend to use Marauder in endgame PvE, you're playing very inoptimally to begin with and infusions have lower effect due to lower crit damage multiplier from ferocity than zerker's has. A couple pieces of valkyrie only works if you already have guaranteed crit overcap nullifying some of the excess precision from berserker's and thus Valkyrie working the same as berserker's (though converting wasted prec to vit) as long as it stays at 100% crit rate. Full Valkyrie set is massive dps loss on everything except Decimate Defenses Power Reaper which by itself is slightly inoptimal compared to Soul Eater Reaper.Don’t assume everyone one is using berserker.Currently using Marauder on a deadeye. The extra 5k-7k hp helps a lot in surviving dps spikes or tanking boss burst. Every one hates resurrecting a dead player. It brings the dps way down.Current crit rate is already about 105%+ not counting team/food crit buff yet on a marauder.7% from weapon20% from fury5% from crit strike spec7% from crit behind skill5%-10% from signetsMarauder also has higher overall stat than berserker. Bonus stat!Also a full serker deadeye, you’ll last 2 sec in pvp. Also conditions will have a higher % dps to serkers.Full zerker with Invigorating Precision is actually tankier than partly Marauder thief due to damage healing and thus more damage=more heals. If you're worried about taking damage and not healing fast enough, play staff DD and you're playing 2nd tankiest dps build in the game, only scrapper being tankier. Extra buffer HP in endgame PVE just meant you die a tiny bit slower if you don't have heals to sustain.If you're using precision food and you're at 105% crit rate, you're wasting 101 stats. You'd be both tankier and doing more damage by using Valkyrie pieces to convert those wasted 101 prec to vitality. No power nor fero lost like you do with Marauder's.Signet of Agility is fixed 8.57% crit rate, not "5-10%".Marauder is 4-stat combo, yeah. But at full set, having vitality as minor stat is still a dps loss compared to zerker's, especially since it nerfs power+fero which affect damage itself. Valkyrie doesn't eat touch damage itself.How PVP is relevant to conversation about infusions?!? Hopefully you meant WvW and yeah, there you need extra survivability but enemy targets don't have 24M HP either and damage doesn't need to be optimized. But in PVE, dpser's job is to dps as well as possible, though occasionally taking certain skills to deal with mechs help but that's skills, not gears. If you have survival issues in raids/fractals, either you're failing mechs or healer doesn't heal enough (usually #GitGud issue). And since this conversation is in fractals/raids/strikes section, this thread is about endgame PVE supposedly, thus about dpsing.Armor is all purpose of course, that is why I’m looking at an agony plus 5 stat. And marauder armor set is safest pick for both wvw & pve unless you have 2 armor sets or a legendary armor set to switch.As for trink sets, I might add a third set because trinks are easy to obtain. And it will be valkyrie as you suggested.Berserker trink setMarauder trink setValkyrie trink setIt would be great on open world roaming & monster skipping. Or wvw retreatingI only use berserker if I have a favorable party to cope with its zero health increase & light defense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...

RaidsAreEasyAF.8652 Posted June 8, 2020 Share Posted June 8, 2020 @LadyKitty.6120 said:Full zerker with Invigorating Precision is actually tankier than partly Marauder thief due to damage healing and thus more damage=more heals. If you're worried about taking damage and not healing fast enough, play staff DD and you're playing 2nd tankiest dps build in the game, only scrapper being tankier. Extra buffer HP in endgame PVE just meant you die a tiny bit slower if you don't have heals to sustain.I know it doesnt have anything to do with the actual discussion and that Power Renegade is mostly a meme, but its also really tanky.Battle Scars and Soulcleave Summit heals for so much. I guess you could also take Jalis instead of Shiro if you are really struggling with something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...

lare.5129 Posted June 8, 2020 Share Posted June 8, 2020 At fist you can buy from Laurel Merchant the Basic Attribute Infusionhttps://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mighty_Infusion_(basic)5 Laurel. You get it from daily login. 35 per 28 days. So lett than after 3 month you can have for free all 18.Also wvw you can get +stat infusion also for not big price. It have some improvement also.https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mighty_WvW_Infusionbuy with 5 Laurel is 125 Badge of Honor is equal ~3.2 gold45 WvW Skirmish Claim Ticket + 20 Memory of Battle is equal ~2.5 gold (WvW Skirmish Claim Ticket have weekly cap - 365)so 18*~3 is ~ 60 gold.Don't think what this is something super big. Also you don't take this gold from gold, you juts spend gold equivalent from yours wallet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...

Jojo.6140 Posted June 8, 2020 Share Posted June 8, 2020 At lvl 80, having all slots with +5 power infusions is like having 3 stacks of might permanently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...

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