So, what does the Warrior actually do well?

[Axl.8924]

@DanAlcedo.3281 said:

@Axl.8924 said:

@DanAlcedo.3281 said:

@Axl.8924 said:

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@Axl.8924 said:

@DanAlcedo.3281 said:

@Axl.8924 said:

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@Axl.8924 said:

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@Axl.8924 said:

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@Axl.8924 said:I got a question so just how slow is hammer? and should dmg be increased by a lot and kept slow? or should they gain quickness like the way necros in reaper shroud do?

Or maybe they should adjust speed of the hammer a bit and increase dmg by a lot?

I heard it was good only in vanilla is that accurate?

Considering I used to get 14k Backbreakers without 25 stacks of might or 25 stacks of vulnerability on a target, yeah it was great in vanilla.

Warrior hammer and Guardian hammer both kind of need to be reworked at this point. Both are slow AF high risk weapons. Warrior hammer at least used to de good damage to reward the risk of such slow telegraphed abilities, but since CmC decided that CC shouldn't ever do damage we're left with an incredibly slow weapon that cant really capitalize on its own CCs. If they brought the PvE Fierce Blow into the competitive mods then the weapon would be slightly better.

If it lost the CC and kept the dmg would it still be good? Example:If it was possible to make one CC on weapon with a cd that is good but does little dmg but the to her ones with no CC did a lot of dmg.

Also what makes warrior weapons diff from other class weapons? EG eles with lightning rod nec with their chill cripple?

Is it possible to decouple stuns without a huge overhaul to make ccs separate tool for ANET to control while also keeping damage?

Would huge overhauls be needed of the builds and skills be needed for this to work?

Backbreaker is kind of iconic. It needs both the damage and the CC honestly. IF CC never gets its damage back though I'd change hammer 4 to remove the knockback and have it just be an AoE dps skill with a short cast time that deals more damage, or recharge more quickly, versus crippled foes for synergy with hammer 3.

Ele Lightning Rod is Anet F*cking up. The trait allows Ele to continue to deal damage with CCs, not that you should ever get killed by it mind you, but is a perfect example of their 'balance' decisions.

Chill and cripple are soft CCs, which Anet is okay with dealing damage, so Necro Chill/cripple just slows you down and doesn't stop you from responding.

The whole stun vs stability thing is a huge clusterf*ck right now. Honestly, I'd like to see a return to non stacking Stability, where stab isn't removed per CC, then reduce the durations of all stab sources, like at launch. There was no reason to remove damage from CC while at the same time reducing damage across the board.

Question how dependent on modifiers are you that involve stun? is there a modifier that says when mob is stunned you do 20% dmg more or something.?

If so should they be touched if stun amounts are reduced for something else to make more useful in a less stun dependent environment for warriors?

Merciless Hammer does 20% more for hammer versus cc'd foes. It also gives 10 Adrenaline per foe you CC.

The question then is should merciless hammer be changed? or should CC dmg be incorporated in another way? if stuns and ccs are removed wouldn't it make this trait useless? and that adrenaline thingy that's like life force from nec and charges for guardians special move? how important is that adrenaline gain from that trait?

I think before changing something removing a lot of considerations has to be made and I don't really know about warrior since I never played one so maybe clearing this all up will bring ANET here to change hammer somehow for the better.

Are there any other considerations to be made in changes to traits alongside this to make warriors function better? how so?

The hammer trait should simply add dmg back to CCs.

Its in a GM slot and competes with 2 very strong GM traits.

What trait is it competing with exactly that is competing?

Berserker's Power for +7% damage per bar of adrenaline spent

when you hit

and Might Makes Right, which gives healing and endurance per might stack gained.

CCs need damage back, or Anet at least needs to acknowledge that not every CC needed its damage removed and return damage to some skills like Backbreaker and Earthshaker. If they absolutely refuse to do that then I'd like to see the bleed stacks on Body Blow increased to 4 and for Unsuspecting Foe to cause confusion when you strike a CCd foe with no CD.

Wow had no idea that dmg was that bad on hammer. So tell me then does berserker power make up power wise for the lacklusterness of merciless hammer? or guess no since you guys are lacking in appearance in PVP? I'm guessing no since i keep hearing that few to no warriors seen.

If so maybe they should revise that whole CC doing no damage and reinstate the old version.

Would those bleeds be enough on body-blow to make warrior with hammer viable?

Warrior Dmg is so low, minstrel gear is meta in WvW.Because, if you cant do dmg at least increase the "meh" healing.

What kinda survivability do you have with the healing? that's really disappointing if even with minstrel the healing doesn't make up with huge survivability if not.

About 2,5 to 3k group healing per shout. And you play between 3-4 shouts (one from a trait).

The Healing warrior can do is a nice extra to every group but not even remotely close to a actual support class.

But if the question is 2k power for 3 more dmg or 2k healpower for 2k higher healing, the answer is obvious.

2.5k for healing isn't great that's for sure but if you can do all of them at once and have on low cd that almost comes to a meaningful amount 10k for instance i don't think would be meaningless if you could hit multiple shouts and heal your whole team but if they have long CDs and I'm going to guess they probably have 40+ sec CDs then no even 30 sec is too high, unless you have something that really amps up the healing on shouts by a lot more.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

@Axl.8924 said:

@DanAlcedo.3281 said:

@Axl.8924 said:

@DanAlcedo.3281 said:

@Axl.8924 said:

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@Axl.8924 said:

@DanAlcedo.3281 said:

@Axl.8924 said:

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@Axl.8924 said:

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@Axl.8924 said:

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@Axl.8924 said:I got a question so just how slow is hammer? and should dmg be increased by a lot and kept slow? or should they gain quickness like the way necros in reaper shroud do?

Or maybe they should adjust speed of the hammer a bit and increase dmg by a lot?

I heard it was good only in vanilla is that accurate?

Considering I used to get 14k Backbreakers without 25 stacks of might or 25 stacks of vulnerability on a target, yeah it was great in vanilla.

Warrior hammer and Guardian hammer both kind of need to be reworked at this point. Both are slow AF high risk weapons. Warrior hammer at least used to de good damage to reward the risk of such slow telegraphed abilities, but since CmC decided that CC shouldn't ever do damage we're left with an incredibly slow weapon that cant really capitalize on its own CCs. If they brought the PvE Fierce Blow into the competitive mods then the weapon would be slightly better.

If it lost the CC and kept the dmg would it still be good? Example:If it was possible to make one CC on weapon with a cd that is good but does little dmg but the to her ones with no CC did a lot of dmg.

Also what makes warrior weapons diff from other class weapons? EG eles with lightning rod nec with their chill cripple?

Is it possible to decouple stuns without a huge overhaul to make ccs separate tool for ANET to control while also keeping damage?

Would huge overhauls be needed of the builds and skills be needed for this to work?

Backbreaker is kind of iconic. It needs both the damage and the CC honestly. IF CC never gets its damage back though I'd change hammer 4 to remove the knockback and have it just be an AoE dps skill with a short cast time that deals more damage, or recharge more quickly, versus crippled foes for synergy with hammer 3.

Ele Lightning Rod is Anet F*cking up. The trait allows Ele to continue to deal damage with CCs, not that you should ever get killed by it mind you, but is a perfect example of their 'balance' decisions.

Chill and cripple are soft CCs, which Anet is okay with dealing damage, so Necro Chill/cripple just slows you down and doesn't stop you from responding.

The whole stun vs stability thing is a huge clusterf*ck right now. Honestly, I'd like to see a return to non stacking Stability, where stab isn't removed per CC, then reduce the durations of all stab sources, like at launch. There was no reason to remove damage from CC while at the same time reducing damage across the board.

Question how dependent on modifiers are you that involve stun? is there a modifier that says when mob is stunned you do 20% dmg more or something.?

If so should they be touched if stun amounts are reduced for something else to make more useful in a less stun dependent environment for warriors?

Merciless Hammer does 20% more for hammer versus cc'd foes. It also gives 10 Adrenaline per foe you CC.

The question then is should merciless hammer be changed? or should CC dmg be incorporated in another way? if stuns and ccs are removed wouldn't it make this trait useless? and that adrenaline thingy that's like life force from nec and charges for guardians special move? how important is that adrenaline gain from that trait?

I think before changing something removing a lot of considerations has to be made and I don't really know about warrior since I never played one so maybe clearing this all up will bring ANET here to change hammer somehow for the better.

Are there any other considerations to be made in changes to traits alongside this to make warriors function better? how so?

The hammer trait should simply add dmg back to CCs.

Its in a GM slot and competes with 2 very strong GM traits.

What trait is it competing with exactly that is competing?

Berserker's Power for +7% damage per bar of adrenaline spent

when you hit

and Might Makes Right, which gives healing and endurance per might stack gained.

CCs need damage back, or Anet at least needs to acknowledge that not every CC needed its damage removed and return damage to some skills like Backbreaker and Earthshaker. If they absolutely refuse to do that then I'd like to see the bleed stacks on Body Blow increased to 4 and for Unsuspecting Foe to cause confusion when you strike a CCd foe with no CD.

Wow had no idea that dmg was that bad on hammer. So tell me then does berserker power make up power wise for the lacklusterness of merciless hammer? or guess no since you guys are lacking in appearance in PVP? I'm guessing no since i keep hearing that few to no warriors seen.

If so maybe they should revise that whole CC doing no damage and reinstate the old version.

Would those bleeds be enough on body-blow to make warrior with hammer viable?

Warrior Dmg is so low, minstrel gear is meta in WvW.Because, if you cant do dmg at least increase the "meh" healing.

What kinda survivability do you have with the healing? that's really disappointing if even with minstrel the healing doesn't make up with huge survivability if not.

About 2,5 to 3k group healing per shout. And you play between 3-4 shouts (one from a trait).

The Healing warrior can do is a nice extra to every group but not even remotely close to a actual support class.

But if the question is 2k power for 3 more dmg or 2k healpower for 2k higher healing, the answer is obvious.

2.5k for healing isn't great that's for sure but if you can do all of them at once and have on low cd that almost comes to a meaningful amount 10k for instance i don't think would be meaningless if you could hit multiple shouts and heal your whole team but if they have long CDs and I'm going to guess they probably have 40+ sec CDs then no even 30 sec is too high, unless you have something that really amps up the healing on shouts by a lot more.

Several shouts have ammo charges, so you could double tap them in a fairly short amount of time, but then you'd be out for 25-70s depending on the shouts.

[DanAlcedo.3281]

@Axl.8924 said:

@DanAlcedo.3281 said:

@Axl.8924 said:

@DanAlcedo.3281 said:

@Axl.8924 said:

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@Axl.8924 said:

@DanAlcedo.3281 said:

@Axl.8924 said:

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@Axl.8924 said:

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@Axl.8924 said:

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@Axl.8924 said:I got a question so just how slow is hammer? and should dmg be increased by a lot and kept slow? or should they gain quickness like the way necros in reaper shroud do?

Or maybe they should adjust speed of the hammer a bit and increase dmg by a lot?

I heard it was good only in vanilla is that accurate?

Considering I used to get 14k Backbreakers without 25 stacks of might or 25 stacks of vulnerability on a target, yeah it was great in vanilla.

Warrior hammer and Guardian hammer both kind of need to be reworked at this point. Both are slow AF high risk weapons. Warrior hammer at least used to de good damage to reward the risk of such slow telegraphed abilities, but since CmC decided that CC shouldn't ever do damage we're left with an incredibly slow weapon that cant really capitalize on its own CCs. If they brought the PvE Fierce Blow into the competitive mods then the weapon would be slightly better.

If it lost the CC and kept the dmg would it still be good? Example:If it was possible to make one CC on weapon with a cd that is good but does little dmg but the to her ones with no CC did a lot of dmg.

Also what makes warrior weapons diff from other class weapons? EG eles with lightning rod nec with their chill cripple?

Is it possible to decouple stuns without a huge overhaul to make ccs separate tool for ANET to control while also keeping damage?

Would huge overhauls be needed of the builds and skills be needed for this to work?

Backbreaker is kind of iconic. It needs both the damage and the CC honestly. IF CC never gets its damage back though I'd change hammer 4 to remove the knockback and have it just be an AoE dps skill with a short cast time that deals more damage, or recharge more quickly, versus crippled foes for synergy with hammer 3.

Ele Lightning Rod is Anet F*cking up. The trait allows Ele to continue to deal damage with CCs, not that you should ever get killed by it mind you, but is a perfect example of their 'balance' decisions.

Chill and cripple are soft CCs, which Anet is okay with dealing damage, so Necro Chill/cripple just slows you down and doesn't stop you from responding.

The whole stun vs stability thing is a huge clusterf*ck right now. Honestly, I'd like to see a return to non stacking Stability, where stab isn't removed per CC, then reduce the durations of all stab sources, like at launch. There was no reason to remove damage from CC while at the same time reducing damage across the board.

Question how dependent on modifiers are you that involve stun? is there a modifier that says when mob is stunned you do 20% dmg more or something.?

If so should they be touched if stun amounts are reduced for something else to make more useful in a less stun dependent environment for warriors?

Merciless Hammer does 20% more for hammer versus cc'd foes. It also gives 10 Adrenaline per foe you CC.

The question then is should merciless hammer be changed? or should CC dmg be incorporated in another way? if stuns and ccs are removed wouldn't it make this trait useless? and that adrenaline thingy that's like life force from nec and charges for guardians special move? how important is that adrenaline gain from that trait?

I think before changing something removing a lot of considerations has to be made and I don't really know about warrior since I never played one so maybe clearing this all up will bring ANET here to change hammer somehow for the better.

Are there any other considerations to be made in changes to traits alongside this to make warriors function better? how so?

The hammer trait should simply add dmg back to CCs.

Its in a GM slot and competes with 2 very strong GM traits.

What trait is it competing with exactly that is competing?

Berserker's Power for +7% damage per bar of adrenaline spent

when you hit

and Might Makes Right, which gives healing and endurance per might stack gained.

CCs need damage back, or Anet at least needs to acknowledge that not every CC needed its damage removed and return damage to some skills like Backbreaker and Earthshaker. If they absolutely refuse to do that then I'd like to see the bleed stacks on Body Blow increased to 4 and for Unsuspecting Foe to cause confusion when you strike a CCd foe with no CD.

Wow had no idea that dmg was that bad on hammer. So tell me then does berserker power make up power wise for the lacklusterness of merciless hammer? or guess no since you guys are lacking in appearance in PVP? I'm guessing no since i keep hearing that few to no warriors seen.

If so maybe they should revise that whole CC doing no damage and reinstate the old version.

Would those bleeds be enough on body-blow to make warrior with hammer viable?

Warrior Dmg is so low, minstrel gear is meta in WvW.Because, if you cant do dmg at least increase the "meh" healing.

What kinda survivability do you have with the healing? that's really disappointing if even with minstrel the healing doesn't make up with huge survivability if not.

About 2,5 to 3k group healing per shout. And you play between 3-4 shouts (one from a trait).

The Healing warrior can do is a nice extra to every group but not even remotely close to a actual support class.

But if the question is 2k power for 3 more dmg or 2k healpower for 2k higher healing, the answer is obvious.

2.5k for healing isn't great that's for sure but if you can do all of them at once and have on low cd that almost comes to a meaningful amount 10k for instance i don't think would be meaningless if you could hit multiple shouts and heal your whole team but if they have long CDs and I'm going to guess they probably have 40+ sec CDs then no even 30 sec is too high, unless you have something that really amps up the healing on shouts by a lot more.

CDs are 24/20/60/25

[RedShark.9548]

@LordTemujin.5498 said:Hmm.... Warrior in WvW is half dead. they made a ministrel bubble bot with heals and all.... but thats it

Minstrel was a garbage choice for that, ppl who spread these builds are braindead.

I posted a warrior zerg build some time ago thats works better than ever with the recent balancechange.Doesnt have the craziest dmg, but warrior isnt good for that compared to other classes anyways

Edit. On a full heal warrior i hit 5.5k heal per shout, still not worth it to go healing power. You overheal most of the time, and rarely your whole group is low, often its just a random straggler getting stuck in cc and then dying.

[Axl.8924]

@RedShark.9548 said:

@LordTemujin.5498 said:Hmm.... Warrior in WvW is half dead. they made a ministrel bubble bot with heals and all.... but thats it

Minstrel was a garbage choice for that, ppl who spread these builds are braindead.

I posted a warrior zerg build some time ago thats works better than ever with the recent balancechange.Doesnt have the craziest dmg, but warrior isnt good for that compared to other classes anyways

Edit. On a full heal warrior i hit 5.5k heal per shout, still not worth it to go healing power. You overheal most of the time, and rarely your whole group is low, often its just a random straggler getting stuck in cc and then dying.

5.5k isn't that bad its not great but if you got 70 cd i'd say yeah its pretty useless, not like you can actually put pressure on the enemy group in pvp to say:HEY I'm healing and if you don't get rid of me I'm going to continue to heal and make life impossible so kill me first.

[RedShark.9548]

@Axl.8924 said:

@RedShark.9548 said:

@LordTemujin.5498 said:Hmm.... Warrior in WvW is half dead. they made a ministrel bubble bot with heals and all.... but thats it

Minstrel was a garbage choice for that, ppl who spread these builds are braindead.

I posted a warrior zerg build some time ago thats works better than ever with the recent balancechange.Doesnt have the craziest dmg, but warrior isnt good for that compared to other classes anyways

Edit. On a full heal warrior i hit 5.5k heal per shout, still not worth it to go healing power. You overheal most of the time, and rarely your whole group is low, often its just a random straggler getting stuck in cc and then dying.

5.5k isn't that bad its not great but if you got 70 cd i'd say yeah its pretty useless, not like you can actually put pressure on the enemy group in pvp to say:HEY I'm healing and if you don't get rid of me I'm going to continue to heal and make life impossible so kill me first.

Well, it was wvw, and 70sec isnt realistic because ammo system, but, like i said, i left healing power behind and went for a different type of support wvw zerg warrior, that provides cc, boonrip, a kittenton of might for your group (more than any rev and guard could ever give), condicleanse, ok fury/other boons.Has fully stacked 4k power, only lacks precision (25% with fury) and critdmg.Is tanky af tho and feels like a true warrior wrecking havoc with your hammer (as long as your squad throws dmg onto the cc'ed ppl)31k health and ~3k armorLots of selfhealing, every cc you throw out heals you, you can go so deep into the enemy, having hella fun with it.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

@RedShark.9548 said:

@Axl.8924 said:

@RedShark.9548 said:

@LordTemujin.5498 said:Hmm.... Warrior in WvW is half dead. they made a ministrel bubble bot with heals and all.... but thats it

Minstrel was a garbage choice for that, ppl who spread these builds are braindead.

I posted a warrior zerg build some time ago thats works better than ever with the recent balancechange.Doesnt have the craziest dmg, but warrior isnt good for that compared to other classes anyways

Edit. On a full heal warrior i hit 5.5k heal per shout, still not worth it to go healing power. You overheal most of the time, and rarely your whole group is low, often its just a random straggler getting stuck in cc and then dying.

5.5k isn't that bad its not great but if you got 70 cd i'd say yeah its pretty useless, not like you can actually put pressure on the enemy group in pvp to say:HEY I'm healing and if you don't get rid of me I'm going to continue to heal and make life impossible so kill me first.

Well, it was wvw, and 70sec isnt realistic because ammo system, but, like i said, i left healing power behind and went for a different type of support wvw zerg warrior, that provides cc, boonrip, a kittenton of might for your group (more than any rev and guard could ever give), condicleanse, ok fury/other boons.Has fully stacked 4k power, only lacks precision (25% with fury) and critdmg.Is tanky af tho and feels like a true warrior wrecking havoc with your hammer (as long as your squad throws dmg onto the cc'ed ppl)31k health and ~3k armorLots of selfhealing, every cc you throw out heals you, you can go so deep into the enemy, having hella fun with it.

True story, I gave him some solid advice on that build and I've seen his gameplay. Scroll though the Warrior forum until you find his Worker build (or RedShark can just repost it :tongue: )

Still I think your worker build would do better if they return some damage to CCs.

[Axl.8924]

@RedShark.9548 said:

@Axl.8924 said:

@RedShark.9548 said:

@LordTemujin.5498 said:Hmm.... Warrior in WvW is half dead. they made a ministrel bubble bot with heals and all.... but thats it

Minstrel was a garbage choice for that, ppl who spread these builds are braindead.

I posted a warrior zerg build some time ago thats works better than ever with the recent balancechange.Doesnt have the craziest dmg, but warrior isnt good for that compared to other classes anyways

Edit. On a full heal warrior i hit 5.5k heal per shout, still not worth it to go healing power. You overheal most of the time, and rarely your whole group is low, often its just a random straggler getting stuck in cc and then dying.

5.5k isn't that bad its not great but if you got 70 cd i'd say yeah its pretty useless, not like you can actually put pressure on the enemy group in pvp to say:HEY I'm healing and if you don't get rid of me I'm going to continue to heal and make life impossible so kill me first.

Well, it was wvw, and 70sec isnt realistic because ammo system, but, like i said, i left healing power behind and went for a different type of support wvw zerg warrior, that provides cc, boonrip, a kittenton of might for your group (more than any rev and guard could ever give), condicleanse, ok fury/other boons.Has fully stacked 4k power, only lacks precision (25% with fury) and critdmg.Is tanky af tho and feels like a true warrior wrecking havoc with your hammer (as long as your squad throws dmg onto the cc'ed ppl)31k health and ~3k armorLots of selfhealing, every cc you throw out heals you, you can go so deep into the enemy, having hella fun with it.

Personally I think maybe the warrior shout with 70-sec cd should have its healing doubled maybe even tripled to make it useful so you use 1 shout conserve and we could see shout warriors who are healers.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

@Axl.8924 said:

@RedShark.9548 said:

@Axl.8924 said:

@RedShark.9548 said:

@LordTemujin.5498 said:Hmm.... Warrior in WvW is half dead. they made a ministrel bubble bot with heals and all.... but thats it

Minstrel was a garbage choice for that, ppl who spread these builds are braindead.

I posted a warrior zerg build some time ago thats works better than ever with the recent balancechange.Doesnt have the craziest dmg, but warrior isnt good for that compared to other classes anyways

Edit. On a full heal warrior i hit 5.5k heal per shout, still not worth it to go healing power. You overheal most of the time, and rarely your whole group is low, often its just a random straggler getting stuck in cc and then dying.

5.5k isn't that bad its not great but if you got 70 cd i'd say yeah its pretty useless, not like you can actually put pressure on the enemy group in pvp to say:HEY I'm healing and if you don't get rid of me I'm going to continue to heal and make life impossible so kill me first.

Well, it was wvw, and 70sec isnt realistic because ammo system, but, like i said, i left healing power behind and went for a different type of support wvw zerg warrior, that provides cc, boonrip, a kittenton of might for your group (more than any rev and guard could ever give), condicleanse, ok fury/other boons.Has fully stacked 4k power, only lacks precision (25% with fury) and critdmg.Is tanky af tho and feels like a true warrior wrecking havoc with your hammer (as long as your squad throws dmg onto the cc'ed ppl)31k health and ~3k armorLots of selfhealing, every cc you throw out heals you, you can go so deep into the enemy, having hella fun with it.

Personally I think maybe the warrior shout with 70-sec cd should have its healing doubled maybe even tripled to make it useful so you use 1 shout conserve and we could see shout warriors who are healers.

Actual shout healing would require them to bump the base healing by at least 20%.