nerfed ranger

[jcbroe.4329]

@Turk.5460 said:

@Hyper Cutter.9376 said:

@ArmageddonAsh.6430 said:The highest i saw (outside of hitting someone downed) was maybe 7-8k? A cool down increase would have fixed that, most of the time it was hitting for 3-5k and i have seen auto attacks hit for more than that.It usually seemed to hit for 8-10k on most enemies. Anything hit for more than that would generally be because the controlling player stacked a bunch of damage modifiers on the pet to

make

it hit harder, which doesn't count as active play for

reasons

I guess.

@Lazze.9870 said:Why can't it just latch on to people like the smokescale? Because players would have to pay attention to what pet a ranger swap out? Oh dear, wouldn't that be horrible...That's exactly it, people really,

really

hate when pets (and other forms of AI, for that matter) are actually a threat they have to deal with instead of something they can safely ignore.

Could it possibly be because we don't want to PvE when we are PvPing?

That's a tired argument.

You can't come here and argue that a classes core mechanic shouldn't be viable. It's the designed and intended mechanic.

If you want to rephrase and say ANet shouldn't of designed a class with AI as it's mechanic, fine.

If you want to suggest moving the damage and utility from the pet to the player, fine.

But you're saying a class shouldn't be competitive because of design decisions none of us had any control over. Not only is that classic class bias/classism, it's inherently asking the game to be imbalanced to suit some opinion you have of a part of the game environment that you just don't like (even though there's AI in all sorts of competitive games, even the LoL/DOTA people like to swear by as the golden standard).

But if you'd like to try to get ANet to reimplement a core class mechanic, I'm sure you'd get community support in the effort.

[ArmageddonAsh.6430]

@Majirah.5089 said:I was able to consistently get 20k plus hits with gazelle. It was really just a matter of landing it. I only was able to land it about 60% of the time. But almost every time it landed it was 20k plus. And if it downed them the other hits would happen in which case I'd see 40-60k hits. Had this happen every match I played with it.

Talking PvP or WvW? Could it have been a PvP issue? I only WvW and rarely saw (except for the Vs Downed targets) big hits like that. Also. i think stats, buffs, boons and everything should be taken into acocunt, with things like Sick 'em and such i would expect high hits for example.

[Crapgame.6519]

The pet needed to be fixed and it was broke. It was called out prior to the launch so the bigger question everyone should be asking is why didn't they address it before launch? Furthermore, why don't you spend some bloody money on a actual test / patch server. Based on the beta / test feed back and lack of changes maybe that would be money wasted since they didn't fix what was suggested anyway /boggle

Also I keep hearing it only was crazy damage on downed players. I have to say it was "any" enemy player status because I've personally seen mine one shot many a player out in WvW. 20k damage wasn't uncommon if we are all being honest. It was broke, called out during the weekend with videos to support it, and still released. What does that say about the game designers and developers priorities?

[ArmageddonAsh.6430]

@Crapgame.6519 said:The pet needed to be fixed and it was broke. It was called out prior to the launch so the bigger question everyone should be asking is why didn't they address it before launch? Furthermore, why don't you spend some bloody money on a actual test / patch server. Based on the beta / test feed back and lack of changes maybe that would be money wasted since they didn't fix what was suggested anyway /boggle

Also I keep hearing it only was crazy damage on downed players. I have to say it was "any" enemy player status because I've personally seen mine one shot many a player out in WvW. 20k damage wasn't uncommon if we are all being honest. It was broke, called out during the weekend with videos to support it, and still released. What does that say about the game designers and developers priorities?

As someone that only plays WvW, i wonder if it was a certain interaction that was causing that damage - because i have never seen it myself. As for why they didnt fix it sooner, the same question could be asked about 90% of the Soul beast spec. Riddled with issues that havent even been touched. Zero response from the devs either so we have no idea whats actually a bug or if some of them were "intended"

[jcbroe.4329]

@ArmageddonAsh.6430 said:

@Crapgame.6519 said:The pet needed to be fixed and it was broke. It was called out prior to the launch so the bigger question everyone should be asking is why didn't they address it before launch? Furthermore, why don't you spend some bloody money on a actual test / patch server. Based on the beta / test feed back and lack of changes maybe that would be money wasted since they didn't fix what was suggested anyway /boggle

Also I keep hearing it only was crazy damage on downed players. I have to say it was "any" enemy player status because I've personally seen mine one shot many a player out in WvW. 20k damage wasn't uncommon if we are all being honest. It was broke, called out during the weekend with videos to support it, and still released. What does that say about the game designers and developers priorities?

As someone that only plays WvW, i wonder if it was a certain interaction that was causing that damage - because i have never seen it myself. As for why they didnt fix it sooner, the same question could be asked about 90% of the Soul beast spec. Riddled with issues that havent even been touched. Zero response from the devs either so we have no idea whats actually a bug or if some of them were "intended"

It was a certain interaction as far as I could tell (clearly can't recreate now). It's the same interaction that could be seen on downed targets; it was hitting more than once.

Normally I'd see the charge hit for 4-8k. However, in PvP, I have a few memorable moments where a class like a guard would be attempting a decap and just afk scepter autoing and the charge would hit them multiple times and jump up to 20-30k on my floating damage UI.

Granted, I can't say that it only occurred on stationary targets, I just only ever witnessed hits higher than the 4-8k standard against stationary/downed targets.

Personally I think that ANet just kneejerked the bugfix because they didn't want to take the time to intricately solve the problem when they could just squash it (in turn squashing the pets viability). I'd put money on it just being the same problem that caused the damage on downstate, but ANet blanket nerfed the whole pet just to make sure they could fix it without testing it in a live environment because zzzzz lazy development.

[ArmageddonAsh.6430]

@jcbroe.4329 said:

@ArmageddonAsh.6430 said:

@Crapgame.6519 said:The pet needed to be fixed and it was broke. It was called out prior to the launch so the bigger question everyone should be asking is why didn't they address it before launch? Furthermore, why don't you spend some bloody money on a actual test / patch server. Based on the beta / test feed back and lack of changes maybe that would be money wasted since they didn't fix what was suggested anyway /boggle

Also I keep hearing it only was crazy damage on downed players. I have to say it was "any" enemy player status because I've personally seen mine one shot many a player out in WvW. 20k damage wasn't uncommon if we are all being honest. It was broke, called out during the weekend with videos to support it, and still released. What does that say about the game designers and developers priorities?

As someone that only plays WvW, i wonder if it was a certain interaction that was causing that damage - because i have never seen it myself. As for why they didnt fix it sooner, the same question could be asked about 90% of the Soul beast spec. Riddled with issues that havent even been touched. Zero response from the devs either so we have no idea whats actually a bug or if some of them were "intended"

It was a certain interaction as far as I could tell (clearly can't recreate now). It's the same interaction that could be seen on downed targets; it was hitting more than once.

Normally I'd see the charge hit for 4-8k. However, in PvP, I have a few memorable moments where a class like a guard would be attempting a decap and just afk scepter autoing and the charge would hit them multiple times and jump up to 20-30k on my floating damage UI.

Granted, I can't say that it

only

occurred on stationary targets, I just only ever witnessed hits higher than the 4-8k standard against stationary/downed targets.

Personally I think that ANet just kneejerked the bugfix because they didn't want to take the time to intricately solve the problem when they could just squash it (in turn squashing the pets viability). I'd put money on it just being the same problem that caused the damage on downstate, but ANet blanket nerfed the whole pet just to make sure they could fix it without testing it in a live environment because zzzzz lazy development.

Yeah, that is my guess. It likely STILL has gthe interaction that caused it to hit hard. Now it just wont hit as hard as they heavily nerfed the damage it does. So its heavily punishing us for a bugged interaction without fixing the interaction. What is worse. We point out that it has issues hitting moving targets, so what do they do? Make the other attack deal less damage but hit more times, making it even easier to get range from :/

[Crapgame.6519]

@ArmageddonAsh.6430 said:

@Crapgame.6519 said:The pet needed to be fixed and it was broke. It was called out prior to the launch so the bigger question everyone should be asking is why didn't they address it before launch? Furthermore, why don't you spend some bloody money on a actual test / patch server. Based on the beta / test feed back and lack of changes maybe that would be money wasted since they didn't fix what was suggested anyway /boggle

Also I keep hearing it only was crazy damage on downed players. I have to say it was "any" enemy player status because I've personally seen mine one shot many a player out in WvW. 20k damage wasn't uncommon if we are all being honest. It was broke, called out during the weekend with videos to support it, and still released. What does that say about the game designers and developers priorities?

As someone that only plays WvW, i wonder if it was a certain interaction that was causing that damage - because i have never seen it myself. As for why they didnt fix it sooner, the same question could be asked about 90% of the Soul beast spec. Riddled with issues that havent even been touched. Zero response from the devs either so we have no idea whats actually a bug or if some of them were "intended"

Yeah - I honestly don't know. I also only / mostly play WvW and run Celestial armor with berserker accessories and weapons. Nothing amazing. Usually solo but also run in a duo or small group of five. Not like I'm anything special but I did see it on several occasions like I noted. Player will full health then boom, dead. Maybe another issue related or network/animation delays. I guess I should have grabbed some screen shots of the log - would have helped clarify I guess. My apologies.

[ArmageddonAsh.6430]

@Crapgame.6519 said:

@ArmageddonAsh.6430 said:

@Crapgame.6519 said:The pet needed to be fixed and it was broke. It was called out prior to the launch so the bigger question everyone should be asking is why didn't they address it before launch? Furthermore, why don't you spend some bloody money on a actual test / patch server. Based on the beta / test feed back and lack of changes maybe that would be money wasted since they didn't fix what was suggested anyway /boggle

Also I keep hearing it only was crazy damage on downed players. I have to say it was "any" enemy player status because I've personally seen mine one shot many a player out in WvW. 20k damage wasn't uncommon if we are all being honest. It was broke, called out during the weekend with videos to support it, and still released. What does that say about the game designers and developers priorities?

As someone that only plays WvW, i wonder if it was a certain interaction that was causing that damage - because i have never seen it myself. As for why they didnt fix it sooner, the same question could be asked about 90% of the Soul beast spec. Riddled with issues that havent even been touched. Zero response from the devs either so we have no idea whats actually a bug or if some of them were "intended"

Yeah - I honestly don't know. I also only / mostly play WvW and run Celestial armor with berserker accessories and weapons. Nothing amazing. Usually solo but also run in a duo or small group of five. Not like I'm anything special but I did see it on several occasions like I noted. Player will full health then boom, dead. Maybe another issue related or network/animation delays. I guess I should have grabbed some screen shots of the log - would have helped clarify I guess. My apologies.

My guess was that it was a bugged interaction, something specific causing it to do it, as it wouldnt do it all the time and that is the key point. It wasnt something was hitting that hard all the time, it was like when the stars aligned. Rather than find and fixz that bugged interaction - my guess something to do with the charge getting "stuck" inside someone and rather than continuing, it hits that same target with ALL of the damage.

So rather than find and fix the bugged interaction, they just nerfed the damage to kinda paste over the bugged interaction that is likely still there. It just means when it does happen it wont wreck people enough for it to be seen as bugged or anything.

[Majirah.5089]

@ArmageddonAsh.6430 said:

@Majirah.5089 said:I was able to consistently get 20k plus hits with gazelle. It was really just a matter of landing it. I only was able to land it about 60% of the time. But almost every time it landed it was 20k plus. And if it downed them the other hits would happen in which case I'd see 40-60k hits. Had this happen every match I played with it.

Talking PvP or WvW? Could it have been a PvP issue? I only WvW and rarely saw (except for the Vs Downed targets) big hits like that. Also. i think stats, buffs, boons and everything should be taken into acocunt, with things like Sick 'em and such i would expect high hits for example.

I mainly do pvp, but I had it happen in pve, pvp, and wvw. I have always run marksmanship, beastmastery, and Druid. Honestly it worked with whatever in the third slot. Have great sword and sic'em. All you had to do was hit sic'em and maul and it would hit for 20k plus. If sic'em was on cooldown you could just have your pet go attack them with f1 and use maul and it would still hit for 16-17k. This was the initial hit too. Nothing to do with downed state.

[otto.5684]

There is no question the 15k-20k gazelle hits were going to be changed. I would not even call it a nerf, more of a bug fix. Did Anet go too far? Maybe.

Is soul beast underwhelming? Yes. I have not seen any area where it excels.

[ArmageddonAsh.6430]

@Majirah.5089 said:

@ArmageddonAsh.6430 said:

@Majirah.5089 said:I was able to consistently get 20k plus hits with gazelle. It was really just a matter of landing it. I only was able to land it about 60% of the time. But almost every time it landed it was 20k plus. And if it downed them the other hits would happen in which case I'd see 40-60k hits. Had this happen every match I played with it.

Talking PvP or WvW? Could it have been a PvP issue? I only WvW and rarely saw (except for the Vs Downed targets) big hits like that. Also. i think stats, buffs, boons and everything should be taken into acocunt, with things like Sick 'em and such i would expect high hits for example.

I mainly do pvp, but I had it happen in pve, pvp, and wvw. I have always run marksmanship, beastmastery, and Druid. Honestly it worked with whatever in the third slot. Have great sword and sic'em. All you had to do was hit sic'em and maul and it would hit for 20k plus. If sic'em was on cooldown you could just have your pet go attack them with f1 and use maul and it would still hit for 16-17k. This was the initial hit too. Nothing to do with downed state.

Is that a bug? Given how Maul is a 50% Increased damage and Sick 'em is 40% increased damage. In these situations it SHOULD hit hard given the damage modifiers used. Take both Maul and Sick 'em away and that 20k damage drops quite a lot. Not downed state but it was with the damage modifiers, it was was without such modifiers and such then i could understand. But that 90% increased damage has a BIG reason behind why you would do 20k. That isnt a bug. That is just a hard hitting skill hitting harder as it SHOULD with 90% increased damage modifiers...

[OGDeadHead.8326]

@Majirah.5089 said:I mainly do pvp, but I had it happen in pve, pvp, and wvw. I have always run marksmanship, beastmastery, and Druid. Honestly it worked with whatever in the third slot. Have great sword and sic'em. All you had to do was hit sic'em and maul and it would hit for 20k plus. If sic'em was on cooldown you could just have your pet go attack them with f1 and use maul and it would still hit for 16-17k. This was the initial hit too. Nothing to do with downed state.

Marksmanship is key here, together with Maul. Opening Strike = guaranteed crit. Remorseless as well?

[Majirah.5089]

@ArmageddonAsh.6430 said:

@Majirah.5089 said:

@ArmageddonAsh.6430 said:

@Majirah.5089 said:I was able to consistently get 20k plus hits with gazelle. It was really just a matter of landing it. I only was able to land it about 60% of the time. But almost every time it landed it was 20k plus. And if it downed them the other hits would happen in which case I'd see 40-60k hits. Had this happen every match I played with it.

Talking PvP or WvW? Could it have been a PvP issue? I only WvW and rarely saw (except for the Vs Downed targets) big hits like that. Also. i think stats, buffs, boons and everything should be taken into acocunt, with things like Sick 'em and such i would expect high hits for example.

I mainly do pvp, but I had it happen in pve, pvp, and wvw. I have always run marksmanship, beastmastery, and Druid. Honestly it worked with whatever in the third slot. Have great sword and sic'em. All you had to do was hit sic'em and maul and it would hit for 20k plus. If sic'em was on cooldown you could just have your pet go attack them with f1 and use maul and it would still hit for 16-17k. This was the initial hit too. Nothing to do with downed state.

Is that a bug? Given how Maul is a 50% Increased damage and Sick 'em is 40% increased damage. In these situations it SHOULD hit hard given the damage modifiers used. Take both Maul and Sick 'em away and that 20k damage drops quite a lot. Not downed state but it was with the damage modifiers, it was was without such modifiers and such then i could understand. But that 90% increased damage has a BIG reason behind why you would do 20k. That isnt a bug. That is just a hard hitting skill hitting harder as it SHOULD with 90% increased damage modifiers...

No it's not a bug. The multi while downed is a bug. I honestly didn't care if the nerfed gazelle or not because I was using that build (except for sic'em) before gazelle since I like glassy power builds. I was just saying the actual active set up itself was super easy. It was just getting gazelle to land the hit that was difficult. I was able to pull it off a lot and had fun with it. I'll still have fun with ranger. Haven't played it since the nerf though so not sure how much it actually got reduced.

As for whether or not it should hit that hard or not is a different story. I was fine with it because it's easy to dodge. Same reason I'm fine with deaths judgment. A lot of people disagree though. I'm pretty indifferent.

[ArmageddonAsh.6430]

@Majirah.5089 said:

@ArmageddonAsh.6430 said:

@Majirah.5089 said:

@ArmageddonAsh.6430 said:

@Majirah.5089 said:I was able to consistently get 20k plus hits with gazelle. It was really just a matter of landing it. I only was able to land it about 60% of the time. But almost every time it landed it was 20k plus. And if it downed them the other hits would happen in which case I'd see 40-60k hits. Had this happen every match I played with it.

Talking PvP or WvW? Could it have been a PvP issue? I only WvW and rarely saw (except for the Vs Downed targets) big hits like that. Also. i think stats, buffs, boons and everything should be taken into acocunt, with things like Sick 'em and such i would expect high hits for example.

I mainly do pvp, but I had it happen in pve, pvp, and wvw. I have always run marksmanship, beastmastery, and Druid. Honestly it worked with whatever in the third slot. Have great sword and sic'em. All you had to do was hit sic'em and maul and it would hit for 20k plus. If sic'em was on cooldown you could just have your pet go attack them with f1 and use maul and it would still hit for 16-17k. This was the initial hit too. Nothing to do with downed state.

Is that a bug? Given how Maul is a 50% Increased damage and Sick 'em is 40% increased damage. In these situations it SHOULD hit hard given the damage modifiers used. Take both Maul and Sick 'em away and that 20k damage drops quite a lot. Not downed state but it was with the damage modifiers, it was was without such modifiers and such then i could understand. But that 90% increased damage has a BIG reason behind why you would do 20k. That isnt a bug. That is just a hard hitting skill hitting harder as it SHOULD with 90% increased damage modifiers...

No it's not a bug. The multi while downed is a bug. I honestly didn't care if the nerfed gazelle or not because I was using that build (except for sic'em) before gazelle since I like glassy power builds. I was just saying the actual active set up itself was super easy. It was just getting gazelle to land the hit that was difficult. I was able to pull it off a lot and had fun with it. I'll still have fun with ranger. Haven't played it since the nerf though so not sure how much it actually got reduced.

As for whether or not it should hit that hard or not is a different story. I was fine with it because it's easy to dodge. Same reason I'm fine with deaths judgment. A lot of people disagree though. I'm pretty indifferent.

Yeah and THATS the problem. It wasn't a bug, it wasnt say like what Thieves are doing with Deaths Judgement and Marking Critters and then easily one shotting people. This one at least had a reasonable set up, against players at least. It was relaint on Pet AI (it SUCKS!) They could have EASILY sorted it without flat out nerfing the ability, and adding another nerf to the pet that barely hits anything as well with its Kick ability getting an even LONGER duration, giving enemies time to make easy range against it.

I still use the Gazelle, but i never used it for that combo myself. I still think people saying its a fix are wrong. Its a nerf. A nerf that shouldnt have happened. Considering you needed several skills + The gazelle on the target and using the right skill at the right time for the damage. Given that the combo was like a 90% damage increase. It SHOULD be hitting hard.

[Majirah.5089]

@ArmageddonAsh.6430 said:

@Majirah.5089 said:

@ArmageddonAsh.6430 said:

@Majirah.5089 said:

@ArmageddonAsh.6430 said:

@Majirah.5089 said:I was able to consistently get 20k plus hits with gazelle. It was really just a matter of landing it. I only was able to land it about 60% of the time. But almost every time it landed it was 20k plus. And if it downed them the other hits would happen in which case I'd see 40-60k hits. Had this happen every match I played with it.

Talking PvP or WvW? Could it have been a PvP issue? I only WvW and rarely saw (except for the Vs Downed targets) big hits like that. Also. i think stats, buffs, boons and everything should be taken into acocunt, with things like Sick 'em and such i would expect high hits for example.

I mainly do pvp, but I had it happen in pve, pvp, and wvw. I have always run marksmanship, beastmastery, and Druid. Honestly it worked with whatever in the third slot. Have great sword and sic'em. All you had to do was hit sic'em and maul and it would hit for 20k plus. If sic'em was on cooldown you could just have your pet go attack them with f1 and use maul and it would still hit for 16-17k. This was the initial hit too. Nothing to do with downed state.

Is that a bug? Given how Maul is a 50% Increased damage and Sick 'em is 40% increased damage. In these situations it SHOULD hit hard given the damage modifiers used. Take both Maul and Sick 'em away and that 20k damage drops quite a lot. Not downed state but it was with the damage modifiers, it was was without such modifiers and such then i could understand. But that 90% increased damage has a BIG reason behind why you would do 20k. That isnt a bug. That is just a hard hitting skill hitting harder as it SHOULD with 90% increased damage modifiers...

No it's not a bug. The multi while downed is a bug. I honestly didn't care if the nerfed gazelle or not because I was using that build (except for sic'em) before gazelle since I like glassy power builds. I was just saying the actual active set up itself was super easy. It was just getting gazelle to land the hit that was difficult. I was able to pull it off a lot and had fun with it. I'll still have fun with ranger. Haven't played it since the nerf though so not sure how much it actually got reduced.

As for whether or not it should hit that hard or not is a different story. I was fine with it because it's easy to dodge. Same reason I'm fine with deaths judgment. A lot of people disagree though. I'm pretty indifferent.

Yeah and THATS the problem. It wasn't a bug, it wasnt say like what Thieves are doing with Deaths Judgement and Marking Critters and then easily one shotting people. This one at least had a reasonable set up, against players at least. It was relaint on Pet AI (it SUCKS!) They could have EASILY sorted it without flat out nerfing the ability, and adding another nerf to the pet that barely hits anything as well with its Kick ability getting an even LONGER duration, giving enemies time to make easy range against it.

I still use the Gazelle, but i never used it for that combo myself. I still think people saying its a fix are wrong. Its a nerf. A nerf that shouldnt have happened. Considering you needed several skills + The gazelle on the target and using the right skill at the right time for the damage. Given that the combo was like a 90% damage increase. It SHOULD be hitting hard.

Like I said I was indifferent if they nerfed it or not. My build was almost the same regardless. Almost all of the set up was in the build. Same with other high burst so I think passive build set up should not be a point of argument between different high burst skills.

The active preparation for the gazelle charge was incredibly simple. I read how to do it and pulled it off on the first try because all you have to do is hit sic'em and maul. That's it. Even without sic'em it would hit for over 15k. So active set up was as simple as marking someone with deaths judgment.

Should high burst builds be able to hit for 20k. Sure, I honestly don't have a problem with that. Lots of people do though. But I don't think people can use the "difficult set up" argument for gazelle because it was super simple and easy.

[Nuka Cola.8520]

they nerfed gazelle but didn't do anything to its laughable pathing. Very exciting.

[aryvandar.8562]

They didn't nerf a damn thing they fixed a bug that wasn't as intended, plain and simple stop using exploits.

[Lazze.9870]

@aryvandar.8562 said:They didn't nerf a kitten thing they fixed a bug that wasn't as intended, plain and simple stop using exploits.

Rock Gazelle: Fixed a bug in which this pet hit downed enemies multiple times with its Charge attack.

That's the fix.

Rock Gazelle—Charge: The damage from this skill has been reduced by 48%.

That's a nerf.

[ArmageddonAsh.6430]

@Lazze.9870 said:

@aryvandar.8562 said:They didn't nerf a kitten thing they fixed a bug that wasn't as intended, plain and simple stop using exploits.

Rock Gazelle: Fixed a bug in which this pet hit downed enemies multiple times with its Charge attack.

That's the fix.

Rock Gazelle—Charge: The damage from this skill has been reduced by 48%.

That's a nerf.

This. This. This. The first would be needed as it was clearly a bug. Mindessly nerfing the damage of a skill because people used several skills to get big damage (the same way Dead eye is currently doing with Deaths Judgement...) getting big hits with it involved using several skills that increased Pet damage. That isnt an Exploit.

[ArmageddonAsh.6430]

@aryvandar.8562 said:They didn't nerf a kitten thing they fixed a bug that wasn't as intended, plain and simple stop using exploits.

You are wrong. you have no idea what an exploit is. Using several skills to make a hard hitting skill hit harder is NOT an exploit. They could have simply made it so that Charge and other such pet skills are unaffected by multiple damage modifiers. Simply nerfing the damage because people used several damage modifiers to make it hit harder is just wrong. What is worse, they made a ALREADY easy to avoid pet even easier to avoid with the changes they made to Kick.