Palawa Joko's Past (Pre-Undeath)

[Veron Faust.8405]

Do we actually know what Palawa Joko was like before he became a lich? How did he become undead in the first place? He says that he was a Primeval King, but is that just more of his propaganda?

I'm just curious if there are any confirmed sources of knowledge about Joko's past.

[Sajuuk Khar.1509]

As far as I know, the earliest mention of Joko is when he built his Bone Palace in 757AE. However, he does claim he was a Primeval King, BUT the spirits of Nahlah and Dahlah, the last of the actual Primeval rulers , who died in 452AE, say he wasn't.

[maxwelgm.4315]

@Veron Faust.8405 said:Do we actually know what Palawa Joko was like before he became a lich? How did he become undead in the first place? He says that he was a Primeval King, but is that just more of his propaganda?

I'm just curious if there are any confirmed sources of knowledge about Joko's past.

It was hyped by devs that, even though we didn't actually know how Palawa came to be a Lich, we merely didn't know yet. I assume this is going to be worked out in LS4. With his claim of being the last Primeval King, a wild guess on that would put him as being in Elona as far as the Scarab Plague at least. But as you said, this might be propaganda as well.

Who knows, maybe he's a vizier of sorts that betrayed the last queens and is responsible for the plague. Or he didn't unleash the plague but his knowledge of the awakening process is related directly to it. Or maybe he is an even older being (but probably still human), that was part of the first group that came to Elona. Whatever it is, he clearly has strong ties to Vabbi as it's the center of his propaganda machine and also where he put his Necropolis.

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

• Earliest official mention is in 757 AE, when he made the Bone Palace.
• Joko himself proclaims last of the Primeval Kings, doubtful given his other lies.
• Brigadier General Kernel of the Lunatic Court (currently in LA) says that Thorn and Joko knew each other in life. However as Thorn died in 825 and the Bone Palace was made in 757, unless Joko made the Bone Palace while alive or Thorn was rather old when he died, that's probably not true.

Overall, I'd say Joko was likely one of the Pretender Kings. Those wars were going on when Joko built his Bone Palace, and when Thorn was alive. And some of the Pretender Kings proclaimed lineage of the Primeval Dynasty royalty.

So it fits.

[Sajuuk Khar.1509]

@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:Those wars were going on when Joko built his Bone Palace,Uhhh-Joko built his palace in 757AE-The Pretender Wars started in 783 DR (583 AE)-The Pretender Wars ended in 840 DR (640 AE)Joko built his palace 117 years after the pretender wars were over. Did you confuse the AE and DR timelines there?

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

@Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:Joko built his palace 117 years after the pretender wars were over. Did you confuse the AE and DR timelines there?

Maybe. Or just had a misremembrance.

The likelihood of it still works though. More likely than Joko being the cause or at all related to the Scarab Plague which has always been overtly subtly hinted to have been due to the Apocrypha (the point of origin of the Scarab Plague is where the Apocrypha is found).

[maxwelgm.4315]

@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

@Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:Joko built his palace 117 years after the pretender wars were over. Did you confuse the AE and DR timelines there?

Maybe. Or just had a misremembrance.

The likelihood of it still works though. More likely than Joko being the cause or at all related to the Scarab Plague which has always been overtly subtly hinted to have been due to the Apocrypha (the point of origin of the Scarab Plague is where the Apocrypha is found).

You're right, I forgot about the Apocrypha. Then the only concrete tip here is the one saying he met Thorn in life.

[ugrakarma.9416]

I'm not familiar with Gw1. But I find it interesting how Joko become popular since PoF lauch. Is one of the best satires of the type "I am the supreme dictator".

[draxynnic.3719]

There is this line from one of the Dynastic Spirits in GW1:

"The dynasties were a time of peace and plenty. Children laughed and men and women discussed all manner of philosophy. Palawa Joko ended it all."

Now, it's ambiguous which 'dynasties' they're talking about - it could be the Great Dynasty - but it certainly seems to imply that Palawa Joko predated (and may have caused) the Pretender Wars, since the Great Dynasty was probably the last dynasty that could be called a "time of peace and plenty".

[Sajuuk Khar.1509]

@draxynnic.3719 said:Now, it's ambiguous which 'dynasties' they're talking about - it could be the Great Dynasty - but it certainly seems to imply that Palawa Joko predated (and may have caused) the Pretender Wars, since the Great Dynasty was probably the last dynasty that could be called a "time of peace and plenty".That would make sense, the Dynastic Spirits also say"I remember ancient dynasties of proud kings fighting over noble titles. They're all gone now; no more than sand on the exposed seabed."Which sounds like a reference to the Pretender Wars

[vandrefalk.6823]

@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

@Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:Joko built his palace 117 years after the pretender wars were over. Did you confuse the AE and DR timelines there?

Maybe. Or just had a misremembrance.

The likelihood of it still works though. More likely than Joko being the cause or at all related to the Scarab Plague which has always been overtly subtly hinted to have been due to the Apocrypha (the point of origin of the Scarab Plague is where the Apocrypha is found).

Well, it's possible Joko built the Bone Palace 117 years after the Pretender Wars... he may have been an unsurper king/warlord that may have died during the Pretender Wars, only to rise again as an undead lich lord and then construct his Bone Palace later?

[vandrefalk.6823]

@draxynnic.3719 said:"The dynasties were a time of peace and plenty. Children laughed and men and women discussed all manner of philosophy. Palawa Joko ended it all."

Now, it's ambiguous which 'dynasties' they're talking about - it could be the Great Dynasty - but it certainly seems to imply that Palawa Joko predated (and may have caused) the Pretender Wars, since the Great Dynasty was probably the last dynasty that could be called a "time of peace and plenty".

Particularly since the Great Dynasty, under the only ruler we know Admun Kolos, ended just as the Pretender Wars ("Shattered Dynasty era") began; so it's like Palawa Joko may have been one of the rulers who contested the throne back as early as 583AE then.

[Ayakaru.6583]

While its likely its his propoganda, the way he defends his claim at the throne suggests he may actually be a primeval king.. or least.. thought he was supposed to be. What if he was a sick firstborn, or he was betrayed by family, or his father decided a younger brother was a better suitor for the crown, or he was a younger brother more skilled but denied the throne simply because he was younger, or whatever else has you.He was denied the throne he thought he was meant to have, and as a result started meddling with darker affairs.I have a nice theory that his ritual that made him a lich caused the scarab plague, (could have a generation gap, still)

[Ayakaru.6583]

• Brigadier General Kernel of the Lunatic Court (currently in LA) says that Thorn and Joko knew each other in life. However as Thorn died in 825 and the Bone Palace was made in 757, unless Joko made the Bone Palace while alive or Thorn was rather old when he died, that's probably not true.

I think this means the live king Thorn duked with the undead Joko.. no guarantees though

[Rognik.2579]

@Ayakaru.6583 said:While its likely its his propoganda, the way he defends his claim at the throne suggests he may actually be a primeval king.. or least.. thought he was supposed to be. What if he was a sick firstborn, or he was betrayed by family, or his father decided a younger brother was a better suitor for the crown, or he was a younger brother more skilled but denied the throne simply because he was younger, or whatever else has you.He was denied the throne he thought he was meant to have, and as a result started meddling with darker affairs.I have a nice theory that his ritual that made him a lich caused the scarab plague, (could have a generation gap, still)The most common scenario for things like this that Joko was a second (or lower) son who wanted the throne, so either plotted to kill the older sibling or something similar. Also possible to be a cousin branch of the main family and killed off the main line so he could become the next king.