Necro's builds removed from qtfy

[Ashyri.5426]

So basically you made a "heavy support" that offers so useless support that the only advantage we had was damage-wise and due to a bug. Now, once again, necromancer is removed from PvE endgame scenario.

As a necro main, I feel deeply disappointed that the brief happiness we had of necro being good [at anything] was literally a mistake and that we're intended to be garbage support and deal b.s damage with a single exclusive feature which is kinda like a heal but worse than a heal because it lasts one second. Just to make it clearer: if scourge was ever supposed to be support, you did a very very bad bad job; otherwise the dps bug fix wouldn't literally and completely remove necro from meta builds.

[Frostwolve.2916]

yay another necro thread. Have you by chance read the other threads where a- net stated they plan on bringing scourge back up a little when they do new balance? You act like the world is ending but it was clearly broken.

[Tobias.8632]

When's the new balance though? One month? Three months? Next year?

[Ashyri.5426]

@Frostwolve.2916 said:yay another necro thread. Have you by chance read the other threads where a- net stated they plan on bringing scourge back up a little when they do new balance? You act like the world is ending but it was clearly broken.

Yes, I have and they talk about "bringing scourge back up a little" on DPS and DPS is not my point.

Edit: If it was at least a good support as it was supposed to be in the first place, "fixing" DPS would be as meaningless as if it was DPS loss of a magi druid or a minstrel chrono: it wouldn't matter! And we would have a "meta support scourge build" instead :)

[Dragoth.7153]

@Frostwolve.2916 said:yay another necro thread. Have you by chance read the other threads where a- net stated they plan on bringing scourge back up a little when they do new balance? You act like the world is ending but it was clearly broken.

What do you expect in necro subforum?I see you are a fan of firebrand, I hope your dps will be reduced to 10k, because you know, support.

[Refia Montes.3205]

https://qtfy.eu/guildwars/news/scourge-update/

[Zoltreez.6435]

@Frostwolve.2916 said:yay another necro thread. Have you by chance read the other threads where a- net stated they plan on bringing scourge back up a little when they do new balance? You act like the world is ending but it was clearly broken.

Necromancers hearing this from the devs since the release of GW2....

few years 2 expansions and 2 elite spec + pages of highly up voted good community sugestions later Necros are still one of the worst classes for almost everything.......

The moment we finally got on the levels of others 1st time in the History of GW2 with this expansion...... we got nerfed and "Bug fixed" back to the Stone Age by the devs.....

[Svarty.8019]

@Tobias.8632 said:When's the new balance though? One month? Three months? Next year?

This. There's no schedule. but I guess the last thing the devs need is another deadline.

[Zezef.5804]

@Svarty.8019 said:This. There's no schedule. but I guess the last thing the devs need is another deadline.

I agree that having a better game is really important and POF was really nice to play.But most of all I think that Necromancers have been deceived once more by that "Bug Fix", it's been the third time in GW2 history that they reduce the Necromancers to nothing. First for the Core, then the Reaper and now the sourge...So yes, maybe we are adding deadlines for them and I know it's a pretty hard job to make everyone happy, but this time enough is enough.

[ArmageddonAsh.6430]

@Zezef.5804 said:

@Svarty.8019 said:This. There's no schedule. but I guess the last thing the devs need is another deadline.

I agree that having a better game is really important and POF was really nice to play.But most of all I think that Necromancers have been deceived once more by that "Bug Fix", it's been the third time in GW2 history that they reduce the Necromancers to nothing. First for the Core, then the Reaper and now the sourge...So yes, maybe we are adding deadlines for them and I know it's a pretty hard job to make everyone happy, but this time enough is enough.

Necros arent reduced to nothing. Why the over reaction to a MUCH needed bug fix (yes bug fix. Not nerf!) It made them insanely broken. It needed to be fixed. The problem is that with the refusal to split the balance away from PvE anything they do to buff PvE Scourge will make the STILL insanely strong Scourge even stronger in WvW and PvP.

[Jethro.9376]

@Svarty.8019 said:

@Tobias.8632 said:When's the new balance though? One month? Three months? Next year?

This. There's no schedule. but I guess the last thing the devs need is another deadline.

Didn't the Wintersday event come with a "balance" update in the past?

[Vorgryn.9145]

@ArmageddonAsh.6430 said:

@Zezef.5804 said:

@Svarty.8019 said:This. There's no schedule. but I guess the last thing the devs need is another deadline.

I agree that having a better game is really important and POF was really nice to play.But most of all I think that Necromancers have been deceived once more by that "Bug Fix", it's been the third time in GW2 history that they reduce the Necromancers to nothing. First for the Core, then the Reaper and now the sourge...So yes, maybe we are adding deadlines for them and I know it's a pretty hard job to make everyone happy, but this time enough is enough.

Necros arent reduced to nothing. Why the over reaction to a MUCH needed bug fix (yes bug fix. Not nerf!) It made them insanely broken. It needed to be fixed. The problem is that with the refusal to split the balance away from PvE anything they do to buff PvE Scourge will make the STILL insanely strong Scourge even stronger in WvW and PvP.

I've been seeing so many people use the bug fix as rationale for why the fix should be a good thing but it's just bull. If nobody could tell it was a bug until the devs told us so, that isn't a "bug fix" but poorly tested and poorly implemented design. Did pressing f5 make necros fly uncontrollably into the air? Did pressing f5 make enemies clip through the ground? Come on we're all gamers here and we've seen our fair share of bugs, and nerfs of this sort shouldn't immediately gets categorized as a bug-fix when they are changing behavior that was present in the POF beta.

What would happen if now, years later, the devs came back and removed the elementalist's ability to swap attunements mid-fight because that wasn't intended behavior so they're fixing an age old bug that allowed elementalists to swap attunements when they weren't supposed to? Nobody would be buying that crap.

[ArmageddonAsh.6430]

@Vorgryn.9145 said:

@ArmageddonAsh.6430 said:

@Zezef.5804 said:

@Svarty.8019 said:This. There's no schedule. but I guess the last thing the devs need is another deadline.

I agree that having a better game is really important and POF was really nice to play.But most of all I think that Necromancers have been deceived once more by that "Bug Fix", it's been the third time in GW2 history that they reduce the Necromancers to nothing. First for the Core, then the Reaper and now the sourge...So yes, maybe we are adding deadlines for them and I know it's a pretty hard job to make everyone happy, but this time enough is enough.

Necros arent reduced to nothing. Why the over reaction to a MUCH needed bug fix (yes bug fix. Not nerf!) It made them insanely broken. It needed to be fixed. The problem is that with the refusal to split the balance away from PvE anything they do to buff PvE Scourge will make the STILL insanely strong Scourge even stronger in WvW and PvP.

I've been seeing so many people use the bug fix as rationale for why the fix should be a good thing but it's just bull. If nobody could tell it was a bug until the devs told us so, that isn't a "bug fix" but poorly tested and poorly implemented design. Did pressing f5 make necros fly uncontrollably into the air? Did pressing f5 make enemies clip through the ground? Come on we're all gamers here and we've seen our fair share of bugs, and nerfs of this sort shouldn't immediately gets categorized as a bug-fix when they are changing behavior that was present in the POF beta.

What would happen if now, years later, the devs came back and removed the elementalist's ability to swap attunements mid-fight because that wasn't intended behavior so they're fixing an age old bug that allowed elementalists to swap attunements when they weren't supposed to? Nobody would be buying that crap.

Its not bull at all and was 100% needed for at least 2 of the game modes as it was INSANELY broken. Like 100% broken. It needed to be fixed and it does say something that SO many Necros relied on this bug to carry them, still see scourges when i roam but nowhere near as many as before. Its like the Before and after the huge buff that Berserker Warrior got just after HoT.

The bug should never have made it into the game, thats for sure and the same could be said for many, many bugs and issues this game has had to deal with and will continue to deal with because the devs have this hatred towards CHECKING their updates before just mindlessly releasing them. This problem would NEVER have happened if this bug was fixed before the game was released.

[Substatic.6958]

@Frostwolve.2916 said:.Have you by chance read the other threads where a- net stated they plan on bringing scourge back up a little when they do new balance?

Like Reaper?

[Zoltreez.6435]

@Substatic.6958 said:

@Frostwolve.2916 said:.Have you by chance read the other threads where a- net stated they plan on bringing scourge back up a little when they do new balance?

Like Reaper?

well if we go by the devs Track record on Necro....

then yes... like reaper...... soo somewhere between 2 years and Never.....

[Ayrilana.1396]

@Ashyri.5426 said:So basically you made a "heavy support" that offers so useless support that the only advantage we had was damage-wise and due to a bug. Now, once again, necromancer is removed from PvE endgame scenario.

As a necro main, I feel deeply disappointed that the brief happiness we had of necro being good [at anything] was literally a mistake and that we're intended to be garbage support and deal b.s damage with a single exclusive feature which is kinda like a heal but worse than a heal because it lasts one second. Just to make it clearer: if scourge was ever supposed to be support, you did a very very bad bad job; otherwise the dps bug fix wouldn't literally and completely remove necro from meta builds.

They’re not removed from endgame. They’re just not as optimal as others.

[Swagg.9236]

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@Ashyri.5426 said:

So basically you made a "heavy support" that offers so useless support that the only advantage we had was damage-wise and due to a bug. Now, once again, necromancer is removed from PvE endgame scenario.

As a necro main, I feel deeply disappointed that the brief happiness we had of necro being good [at anything] was literally a mistake and that we're intended to be garbage support and deal b.s damage with a single exclusive feature which is kinda like a heal but worse than a heal because it lasts one second. Just to make it clearer: if scourge was ever supposed to be support, you did a very very bad bad job; otherwise the dps bug fix wouldn't literally and completely remove necro from meta builds.

They’re not removed from endgame. They’re just not as optimal as others.

The canyon between "optimal" and "viable" is astronomical in GW2 because the game is all about the sole role of DPS "shared" among 9 classes despite the facts that it only takes 1 of those classes to passively stack 25 party might, everyone vomits out vulnerability (which instantly caps and remains at 25 stacks in any remotely organized group), one class already has claim to quickness and alacrity, and how conditions and power damage are just the same untyped "damage" that ultimately everyone throws around in arbitrary volumes.

Since there are no real respective secondary or alternative roles for 27 specs all trying to do "damage," it basically just comes down to how much a given spec can boost overall party DPS. Consider how Druid would maybe not have risen to top healer if if didn't have Grace of the Land given how Tempest could still heal alright, provides plenty of water, and still has a free lightning overcharge despite being a healer spec. Party DPS is king above all else, and the best support is just more party DPS.

If necro can't DPS as well as any of the other potential 27 DPS specs in GW2, it doesn't belong in the game whatsoever. And it can't, so it's gone.

[Ashyri.5426]

@Ayrilana.1396 said:They’re not removed from endgame. They’re just not as optimal as others.

Yes, they are. We have to learn how to play and gear up other classes to not be kicked from PUG parties/squads just for being a necro no matter personal skills. You probably have read "pots and food. NO necros" on LFG for dummy fractals, imagine to join a raids guild... you don't, you must learn other classes bcz necro doesn't count.How badly designed must a class be to be ostracized? Necro bad.

[Ayrilana.1396]

@Swagg.9236 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@Ashyri.5426 said:

So basically you made a "heavy support" that offers so useless support that the only advantage we had was damage-wise and due to a bug. Now, once again, necromancer is removed from PvE endgame scenario.

As a necro main, I feel deeply disappointed that the brief happiness we had of necro being good [at anything] was literally a mistake and that we're intended to be garbage support and deal b.s damage with a single exclusive feature which is kinda like a heal but worse than a heal because it lasts one second. Just to make it clearer: if scourge was ever supposed to be support, you did a very very bad bad job; otherwise the dps bug fix wouldn't literally and completely remove necro from meta builds.

They’re not removed from endgame. They’re just not as optimal as others.

The canyon between "optimal" and "viable" is astronomical in GW2 because the game is all about the sole role of DPS "shared" among 9 classes despite the facts that it only takes 1 of those classes to passively stack 25 party might, everyone vomits out vulnerability (which instantly caps and remains at 25 stacks in any remotely organized group), one class already has claim to quickness and alacrity, and how conditions and power damage are just the same untyped "damage" that ultimately everyone throws around in arbitrary volumes.

Since there are no real respective secondary or alternative roles for 27 specs all trying to do "damage," it basically just comes down to how much a given spec can boost overall party DPS. Consider how Druid would maybe not have risen to top healer if if didn't have Grace of the Land given how Tempest could still heal alright, provides plenty of water, and still has a free lightning overcharge despite being a healer spec. Party DPS is king above all else, and the best support is just more party DPS.

If necro can't DPS as well as any of the other potential 27 DPS specs in GW2, it doesn't belong in the game whatsoever. And it can't, so it's gone.

As I said before, necro is not removed from endgame. They are still capable of doing all endgame content. They just will not be the optimal choice.

[Ayrilana.1396]

@Ashyri.5426 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:They’re not removed from endgame. They’re just not as optimal as others.

Yes, they are. We have to learn how to play and gear up other classes to not be kicked from PUG parties/squads just for being a necro no matter personal skills. You probably have read "pots and food. NO necros" on LFG for dummy fractals, imagine to join a raids guild... you don't, you must learn other classes bcz necro doesn't count.How badly designed must a class be to be ostracized? Necro bad.

No, they are not just like I told the other poster. There will be players that only play optimal builds but you can always play with those players that are not under the mindset that only optimal builds is the only way to do endgame content. If you cannot find an active LFG, create your own.

[Ashyri.5426]

@ArmageddonAsh.6430 said:Necros arent reduced to nothing. Why the over reaction to a MUCH needed bug fix (yes bug fix. Not nerf!) It made them insanely broken. It needed to be fixed. The problem is that with the refusal to split the balance away from PvE anything they do to buff PvE Scourge will make the STILL insanely strong Scourge even stronger in WvW and PvP.

I'm a main PvPer, I knew scourge was going to be nerfed there and it's ok. It's bad for everyone to have an op class on PvP, for a necro main either. They should find a way to balance PvP without breaking PvE, period.

[TheLastNobody.8319]

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@Swagg.9236 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@Ashyri.5426 said:

So basically you made a "heavy support" that offers so useless support that the only advantage we had was damage-wise and due to a bug. Now, once again, necromancer is removed from PvE endgame scenario.

As a necro main, I feel deeply disappointed that the brief happiness we had of necro being good [at anything] was literally a mistake and that we're intended to be garbage support and deal b.s damage with a single exclusive feature which is kinda like a heal but worse than a heal because it lasts one second. Just to make it clearer: if scourge was ever supposed to be support, you did a very very bad bad job; otherwise the dps bug fix wouldn't literally and completely remove necro from meta builds.

They’re not removed from endgame. They’re just not as optimal as others.

The canyon between "optimal" and "viable" is astronomical in GW2 because the game is all about the sole role of DPS "shared" among 9 classes despite the facts that it only takes 1 of those classes to passively stack 25 party might, everyone vomits out vulnerability (which instantly caps and remains at 25 stacks in any remotely organized group), one class already has claim to quickness and alacrity, and how conditions and power damage are just the same untyped "damage" that ultimately everyone throws around in arbitrary volumes.

Since there are no real respective secondary or alternative roles for 27 specs all trying to do "damage," it basically just comes down to how much a given spec can boost overall party DPS. Consider how Druid would maybe not have risen to top healer if if didn't have Grace of the Land given how Tempest could still heal alright, provides plenty of water, and still has a free lightning overcharge despite being a healer spec. Party DPS is king above all else, and the best support is just more party DPS.

If necro can't DPS as well as any of the other potential 27 DPS specs in GW2, it doesn't belong in the game whatsoever. And it can't, so it's gone.

As I said before, necro is not removed from endgame. They are still capable of doing all endgame content. They just will not be the optimal choice.

Annnnd that’s exactly the problem. We don’t bring anything useful to the table. Sure you can clear a raid, dungeon, or fractal using a necro just fine, but we bring nothing worth using compared to other classes. Life siphons can easily be replaced by regen, barriers don’t last long enough to be of much use, and don’t give enough to mitigate much damage, people don’t care if you can convert boons on enemies to bosses and condis to boons, they just want them gone.

Now for me, I’ve never done a raid, mainly did dungeons and fractals using my revenant and engie when just doing fun runs with my friends, it felt vastly different. Necro, I feel like I’m just there. Engi, I can help blast might, or stealth, AoE heals, AoE condi clear. Revenant, hell I wasn’t even a great revenant but I still gave out a ton of boons, upped everyone’s ferocity just by existing, and can increase their boon duration.

[Zoltreez.6435]

@TheLastNobody.8319 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@Swagg.9236 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@Ashyri.5426 said:

So basically you made a "heavy support" that offers so useless support that the only advantage we had was damage-wise and due to a bug. Now, once again, necromancer is removed from PvE endgame scenario.

As a necro main, I feel deeply disappointed that the brief happiness we had of necro being good [at anything] was literally a mistake and that we're intended to be garbage support and deal b.s damage with a single exclusive feature which is kinda like a heal but worse than a heal because it lasts one second. Just to make it clearer: if scourge was ever supposed to be support, you did a very very bad bad job; otherwise the dps bug fix wouldn't literally and completely remove necro from meta builds.

They’re not removed from endgame. They’re just not as optimal as others.

The canyon between "optimal" and "viable" is astronomical in GW2 because the game is all about the sole role of DPS "shared" among 9 classes despite the facts that it only takes 1 of those classes to passively stack 25 party might, everyone vomits out vulnerability (which instantly caps and remains at 25 stacks in any remotely organized group), one class already has claim to quickness and alacrity, and how conditions and power damage are just the same untyped "damage" that ultimately everyone throws around in arbitrary volumes.

Since there are no real respective secondary or alternative roles for 27 specs all trying to do "damage," it basically just comes down to how much a given spec can boost overall party DPS. Consider how Druid would maybe not have risen to top healer if if didn't have Grace of the Land given how Tempest could still heal alright, provides plenty of water, and still has a free lightning overcharge despite being a healer spec. Party DPS is king above all else, and the best support is just more party DPS.

If necro can't DPS as well as any of the other potential 27 DPS specs in GW2, it doesn't belong in the game whatsoever. And it can't, so it's gone.

As I said before, necro is not removed from endgame. They are still capable of doing all endgame content. They just will not be the optimal choice.

Annnnd that’s exactly the problem. We don’t bring anything useful to the table. Sure you can clear a raid, dungeon, or fractal using a necro just fine, but we bring nothing to the table worth using compared to other classes. Life siphons can easily be replaced by regen, barriers don’t last long enough to be of much use, and don’t give enough to mitigate much damage, people don’t care if you can convert boons on enemies to bosses and condis to boons, they just want them gone.

Now for me, I’ve never done a raid, mainly did dungeons and fractals, using my revenant and engie when just doing fun runs with my friends, it felt vastly different. Necro, I feel like I’m just there. Engi, I can help blast might, or stealth, AoE heals, AoE condi clear. Revenant, hell im wasn’t even a great revenant but I still give out a ton of boons, upped everyone’s ferocity just by existing, and can increase their boon duration.

no matter the game mode..... in ALL game modes a necro ONLY can do 1 thing.... DMG..... thats it ...

and its doing even that ONE thing badly compared to all the others....

how can devs design a class this badly i have nooo idea....

You had ONE JOB !!! meme is 100% accurate this time..... its not even a joke its a fact lol

[Jarvis.9540]

@Swagg.9236 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@Ashyri.5426 said:

So basically you made a "heavy support" that offers so useless support that the only advantage we had was damage-wise and due to a bug. Now, once again, necromancer is removed from PvE endgame scenario.

As a necro main, I feel deeply disappointed that the brief happiness we had of necro being good [at anything] was literally a mistake and that we're intended to be garbage support and deal b.s damage with a single exclusive feature which is kinda like a heal but worse than a heal because it lasts one second. Just to make it clearer: if scourge was ever supposed to be support, you did a very very bad bad job; otherwise the dps bug fix wouldn't literally and completely remove necro from meta builds.

They’re not removed from endgame. They’re just not as optimal as others.

The canyon between "optimal" and "viable" is astronomical in GW2 because the game is all about the sole role of DPS "shared" among 9 classes despite the facts that it only takes 1 of those classes to passively stack 25 party might, everyone vomits out vulnerability (which instantly caps and remains at 25 stacks in any remotely organized group), one class already has claim to quickness and alacrity, and how conditions and power damage are just the same untyped "damage" that ultimately everyone throws around in arbitrary volumes.

Since there are no real respective secondary or alternative roles for 27 specs all trying to do "damage," it basically just comes down to how much a given spec can boost overall party DPS. Consider how Druid would maybe not have risen to top healer if if didn't have Grace of the Land given how Tempest could still heal alright, provides plenty of water, and still has a free lightning overcharge despite being a healer spec. Party DPS is king above all else, and the best support is just more party DPS.

If necro can't DPS as well as any of the other potential 27 DPS specs in GW2, it doesn't belong in the game whatsoever. And it can't, so it's gone.

This could not be more spot on. The problem is deeper than necro itself.

[Ara.4569]

Designers said that as long as each spec can clear the content, everything's fine balance-wise.But that's puzzling, because Scourge was already able to clear the content ;) and the broken tier specs didn't receive the Scourge treatment.They should elaborate on what they are trying to achieve.

@Frostwolve.2916 said:(...) a- net stated they plan on bringing scourge back up a little (...)Exactly. A little. Like the 3-4% Power Reaper got after 2 years of being 50% behind. ;)