RIP Applied Force

[Morg.5986]

Title

[ParadoX.3124]

At least it nerfs the worse pvp FT gameplay ever but it is indeed sad for WvW

[Noah Salazar.5430]

what you mean, it's good trait atm, it's gives you stab= 5% dmg

Also now you got 250 power insted of 200

 

If your need more Quickness you can always take https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Superior_Sigil_of_Celerity

 

or runes of chronomancer

 

or even new tairt that gives Quickness insted of Applied Force

 

Edited May 14, 2021 by Noah Salazar.5430

[The Fear.3865]

You got +10 per might stack instead of +200 while under effect of quickness, it's a big nerf for pvp / wvw, scrapper has no clue on stacking might by himself. 

It's now a FT trait only, and even for FT builds, it's bad cuz quickness is more useful... 

Or a pve trait, for dps scrappers on raids only lol

Edited May 16, 2021 by The Fear.3865

[Stalima.5490]

I believe the issues here is that applied force is now an increadibly boring trait, you simply gain damage for having more might, I don't think anyone cares about the stability as if you have enough might to benefit from this trait, the stability itself will be completely unreliable at 3 seconds on a 10 second cycle.

 

The bonus power is a bait, the reason it is not good is because you are losing your self quickness and thus, rather than generating erratic burst damage, the trait more or less turns into a % damage increase trait that actually gets worse the more power you have rather than better like glass cannon or big boomer do.

 

What this means is that this trait is now more or less just something that helps high might condition builds apply more barrier.

Edited May 16, 2021 by Stalima.5490

[Ghos.1326]

Y'all sleeping on Applied Force big time. it gives up quickness and the power you get for having quickness, but it gives much more consistent and controlled steady dps over the course of fights. It's not a bursty "melt your soul" build anymore, it's in it more for the long haul now. I'd suggest trying the build with bulwark gyro now, even elixir B can work well with it. And if you have a dedicated support with you on your team, try running elixir U and elixir B, or just run the usual elixir u, c, h, and x build with HGH. it's still a great trait folks, don't give up on it yet.

[Stalima.5490]

6 hours ago, Ghos.1326 said:

Y'all sleeping on Applied Force big time. it gives up quickness and the power you get for having quickness, but it gives much more consistent and controlled steady dps over the course of fights. It's not a bursty "melt your soul" build anymore, it's in it more for the long haul now. I'd suggest trying the build with bulwark gyro now, even elixir B can work well with it. And if you have a dedicated support with you on your team, try running elixir U and elixir B, or just run the usual elixir u, c, h, and x build with HGH. it's still a great trait folks, don't give up on it yet.

The problem is that in literally any situation where someone is not giving you quickness, you will do more damage with the trait just above it that grants quickness, the only reason to ever run applied force now is if someone else is doing quickness, the boon is actually that powerful.

Edited May 17, 2021 by Stalima.5490

[Ghos.1326]

I promise you that Applied Force is still worth it.

[Kontrolle.3514]

i hate the change, it ruined 2 different scrapper builds that i used for roaming in wvw. Both of them had already high uptime in stability but needed the quickness to kill stuff

[Obtena.7952]

On 5/17/2021 at 6:19 PM, Stalima.5490 said:

The problem is that in literally any situation where someone is not giving you quickness, you will do more damage with the trait just above it that grants quickness, the only reason to ever run applied force now is if someone else is doing quickness, the boon is actually that powerful.

Except you have to make a build that's completely dedicated to getting quickness and boon duration to do it. Applied Force is actually a trait that doesn't force you into doing anything except getting stacks of might, which is pretty reasonable and somewhat easy thing to do on an Engi.

 

I mean, let's take a step back here. Do not pretend like there isn't a cost in build flexibility to accomplish for what you say above to be true. Not everyone is going to do that so no, it's not RIP Applied Force. It's a good trait that gives players options to play Scrapper how we want. 

Edited May 25, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[Stalima.5490]

12 hours ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Except you have to make a build that's completely dedicated to getting quickness and boon duration to do it. Applied Force is actually a trait that doesn't force you into doing anything except getting stacks of might, which is pretty reasonable and somewhat easy thing to do on an Engi.

 

I mean, let's take a step back here. Do not pretend like there isn't a cost in build flexibility to accomplish for what you say above to be true. Not everyone is going to do that so no, it's not RIP Applied Force. It's a good trait that gives players options to play Scrapper how we want. 

 

That's not really a downside of the trait, when it comes down to it, both traits are designed with the same purpose in mind, to boost your damage, and when using the quickness trait you would likely use chrono runes to more or less double it's effectiveness in a self-oriented build, you are comparing a rather pitiful 250 power (if you can maintain 25 might) to basically doubling your damage output for extended periods of time, because of this, the quickness trait does not need to be active all the time to pass the effectiveness of applied force.

 

See when solo, you are going to need to keep reapplying your might stacks and focus on that if you do not have a flamethrower equipped (which ironically doesn't benefit from the second part of the trait that well.) yet even when maintaining the might you would just get a better effect by dropping all the might and running a couple of gyros which is almost guaranteed in a scrapper .build.

[Obtena.7952]

2 hours ago, Stalima.5490 said:

 

That's not really a downside of the trait, when it comes down to it, both traits are designed with the same purpose in mind, to boost your damage, and when using the quickness trait you would likely use chrono runes to more or less double it's effectiveness in a self-oriented build, you are comparing a rather pitiful 250 power (if you can maintain 25 might) to basically doubling your damage output for extended periods of time, because of this, the quickness trait does not need to be active all the time to pass the effectiveness of applied force.

 

See when solo, you are going to need to keep reapplying your might stacks and focus on that if you do not have a flamethrower equipped (which ironically doesn't benefit from the second part of the trait that well.) yet even when maintaining the might you would just get a better effect by dropping all the might and running a couple of gyros which is almost guaranteed in a scrapper .build.

Right ... and the difference is that you need a completely dedicated build to get that perma quickness and with Applied Force you don't. It's not really that hard to self 10 stacks of might on a Scrapper and it doesn't need a 100% dedicated build to do it. I also think you need to be careful about the impact quickness has on your DPS. Sure, if the ONLY thing you do is lay into your AA, your DPS is doubled but let's not forget that to get that DPS, you are interrupting attack cycles to hammer wells or that your DPS is optimized by autoing all the time either. Quickness is great, but I question the efficacy of perma quickness in most situations. I have YET to see some numbers comparing quickness builds to anything else. 

 

The point here is, Applied Force isn't the RIP people think it is just because you can make a build that is focused on getting 100% perma quickness. It doesn't matter if you can make that build. The question is how many people will want to play it. 

Edited May 25, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[Obtena.7952]

42 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

doubl;e post

 

Edited May 25, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[Kontrolle.3514]

3 hours ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Right ... and the difference is that you need a completely dedicated build to get that perma quickness and with Applied Force you don't. It's not really that hard to self 10 stacks of might on a Scrapper and it doesn't need a 100% dedicated build to do it. I also think you need to be careful about the impact quickness has on your DPS. Sure, if the ONLY thing you do is lay into your AA, your DPS is doubled but let's not forget that to get that DPS, you are interrupting attack cycles to hammer wells or that your DPS is optimized by autoing all the time either. Quickness is great, but I question the efficacy of perma quickness in most situations. I have YET to see some numbers comparing quickness builds to anything else. 

 

The point here is, Applied Force isn't the RIP people think it is just because you can make a build that is focused on getting 100% perma quickness. It doesn't matter if you can make that build. The question is how many people will want to play it. 

The difference is, Stalima is talking about actually experience while you theorycraft alot about PvE.

This is a straight nerf to WvW dps builds on Scrapper for roaming and zerging and i would consider those niche builds unviable now.

[Obtena.7952]

4 minutes ago, Kontrolle.3514 said:

The difference is, Stalima is talking about actually experience while you theorycraft alot about PvE.

This is a straight nerf to WvW dps builds on Scrapper for roaming and zerging and i would consider those niche builds unviable now.

Yeah this doesn't make sense ... I'm not theorycrafting about PVE at all here and don't assume his experience somehow trumps what I'm saying. What I said is true regardless of game mode. If you want a quickness build, you're taking Kinetic. If you don't (and there are reasons to do so), you aren't. So no, Applied Forces is not RIP. 

Edited May 25, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[Kontrolle.3514]

2 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Yeah this doesn't make sense ... I'm not theorycrafting about PVE at all here. What I said is true regardless of game mode. If you want a quickness build, you're taking Kinetic. If you don't (and there are good reasons to do so), you aren't. 

jea well,  RIP Applied Force

[Obtena.7952]

2 minutes ago, Kontrolle.3514 said:

jea well,  RIP Applied Force

I mean, why is this even a problem? If you don't like how Applied Force works now, don't use it ... as intended since we have choice. What any single person things about RIP this or that is actually not relevant. As we have seen and continually seen, Anet isn't against the idea of changing things to 'even out' what people choose to play, so even the comments don't make sense. 

Edited May 25, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[Kontrolle.3514]

1 minute ago, Obtena.7952 said:

I mean, why is this even a problem? If you don't like how Applied Force works now, don't use it ... as intended since we have choice. What any single person things about RIP this or that is actually not relevant. 

 

exactly, i dont have to play scrapper in WvW, which i didnt since this patch. But i can complain in forum about a change that ruined the fun on this class. And if this bothers you, maybe go somewhere else.

[Obtena.7952]

12 minutes ago, Kontrolle.3514 said:

 

exactly, i dont have to play scrapper in WvW, which i didnt since this patch. But i can complain in forum about a change that ruined the fun on this class. And if this bothers you, maybe go somewhere else.

It doesn't bother me at all. In fact, I encourage people to complain ... whether that complaint makes sense or not is up for discussion. The idea that Applied Forces is RIP doesn't make sense. There are reasons people will use it because they don't need more barrier buff or they don't feel they want to lose build flexibility with well-superspeed-quickness proc combo that requires two Scrapper traits and a bunch of fixed gear and skill choices to optimize.

 

What 'fun' being ruined are you talking about? Feel free to explain what 'fun' was ruined by changing Applied Forces this way. 

Edited May 25, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[Kontrolle.3514]

9 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

It doesn't bother me at all. In fact, I encourage people to complain ... whether that complaint makes sense or not is up for discussion. The idea that Applied Forces is RIP doesn't make sense. There are reasons people will use it. What 'fun' being ruined are you talking about ... or is that just some random thing you say to dismiss other people's comments? Feel free to explain what 'fun' was ruined by changing Applied Forces this way. 

all my DPS Scrapper builds got carried by this trait. Its alot weaker now in OpenWorld PvE in WvW Zerging and roaming. If you would actually play that class, you would know this and i wouldnt have to argue with you at all about that. In Every Scenario where you dont have permanent all buffs stacked, this is a huge nerf, period. I dont know you but i already know that you are that kind of person that always have to have to last word. So i made my point good bye.

 

Edited May 25, 2021 by Kontrolle.3514

[Obtena.7952]

5 hours ago, Kontrolle.3514 said:

all my DPS Scrapper builds got carried by this trait. Its alot weaker now in OpenWorld PvE in WvW Zerging and roaming. If you would actually play that class, you would know this and i wouldnt have to argue with you at all about that. In Every Scenario where you dont have permanent all buffs stacked, this is a huge nerf, period. 

 

OK ... I have made NO attempt to argue with you about whether this a huge nerf or not ... so I see no relevance to the validity of that claim and the discussion here. Even if it's a huge nerf, what I said is still true. Applied Forces isn't RIP because it's a nerf from the old version. It still has a purpose and I've explained why it still might be attractive to people to use it. 

 

I mean, I don't really see a complaint here if your premise is that your DPS Scrapper was 'carried' by the old version of Applied Forces. Clearly you don't care where your quickness comes from, just as long as you get it. There are LOTS of sources of quickness, especially if you are acknowledging how 'RIP' Applied Forces is. The new Scrapper GM trait is actually better than the old Applied Forces was for giving quickness. What's the problem here?

Edited May 26, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[medivh.4725]

Could use Thermal Coolant to cool heat build up on Holo