Enough wasting time, roll back the 02/25/2020 changes now

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

9 hours ago, Fat Disgrace.4275 said:

Do you think many people can stand up to warriors if they had their dmg back from the stuns? They still hurt a lot.

What is needed is for Body Blow to deal power damage instead of a single stack of bleed. Not even a lot, something like 1k-1.5k on a crit depending on gear and traits. I'm talking Rifle AA levels of damage here.

 

 

5 hours ago, Fat Disgrace.4275 said:

Mending/sigil of cleansing and brawlers recovery is quite a lot with out even trying to invest in condi clear/resolution/resistance 

Yeah, we can cleanse a bunch all at once, but as soon as you cleanse 5 conditions there are 7 more back on you, and since Warrior relies very heavily on melee getting rid of cripple, immobilize, and chill is as important as getting rid of blind, poison, burn, and any of the other damaging conditions and there are classes that vomit conditions everywhere.

[nthmetal.9652]

18 hours ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

What is needed is for Body Blow to deal power damage instead of a single stack of bleed. Not even a lot, something like 1k-1.5k on a crit depending on gear and traits. I'm talking Rifle AA levels of damage here.

You do realize, that body blows works on:

Stuns, dazes, knockbacks, pulls, pushes, and launches 

You also realize that the changes from the competitive split from February 2020 are still in effect, right? So Body Blows would deal 1kto 1.5k probably then multiplied by 0.01, end up with maybe 10-15 damage.
 

18 hours ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

nd since Warrior relies very heavily on melee getting rid of cripple, immobilize, and chill is as important as getting rid of blind, poison, burn, and any of the other damaging conditions and there are classes that vomit conditions everywhere.

This. So much this. Warrior HAS to go into MELEE! It is subjected to each and every attack, ranged AoEs, ranged attacks, PBAoEs, melee attacks. Unlike ranged classes, which can sit more or less comfortably at range and be subjected to only a fraction of the effects.

But in turn we get a fraction of the cleanses we need - doubly so if you still want to deal damage, and very little access to helpful effects. 

 

Even IF you consider staying at range an option, with bow or rifle, you learn quickly that you cannot, because your ranged options are sadly not AoEs, that cannot be blocked or reflected. It's basically all projectile-based attacks and thus ... ineffective. Especially as skill design does not compensate for the effect that only a fraction of your attacks will actually go through succesfully.

Edited May 21, 2021 by nthmetal.9652

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

15 minutes ago, nthmetal.9652 said:

You do realize, that body blows works on:

Stuns, dazes, knockbacks, pulls, pushes, and launches 

You also realize that the changes from the competitive split from February 2020 are still in effect, right? So Body Blows would deal 1kto 1.5k probably then multiplied by 0.01, end up with maybe 10-15 damage.
 

This. So much this. Warrior HAS to go into MELEE! It is subjected to each and every attack, ranged AoEs, ranged attacks, PBAoEs, melee attacks. Unlike ranged classes, which can sit more or less comfortably at range and be subjected to only a fraction of the effects.

But in turn we get a fraction of the cleanses we need - doubly so if you still want to deal damage, and very little access to helpful effects. 

 

Even IF you consider staying at range an option, with bow or rifle, you learn quickly that you cannot, because your ranged options are sadly not AoEs, that cannot be blocked or reflected. It's basically all projectile-based attacks and thus ... ineffective. Especially as skill design does not compensate for the effect that only a fraction of your attacks will actually go through succesfully.

CCs are allowed to do damage if you trait for it according to CMC, see necro fears and lightening rod eles so changing body blow to strike damage rather than bleed is in line with their current balance philosophy.

[Red Haired Savage.5430]

15 minutes ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

CCs are allowed to do damage if you trait for it according to CMC, see necro fears and lightening rod eles so changing body blow to strike damage rather than bleed is in line with their current balance philosophy.

They're still inconsistent about that scraper hammer 5 still does damage without traits and it's a 1 second stun.

[Grand Marshal.4098]

Just now, Red Haired Savage.5430 said:

They're still inconsistent about that scraper hammer 5 still does damage without traits and it's a 1 second stun.

Well Thunderclap is a persisting AoE.

 

So you can count the pulsing dmg as not part of the initial strike ig. 

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

6 minutes ago, Red Haired Savage.5430 said:

They're still inconsistent about that scraper hammer 5 still does damage without traits and it's a 1 second stun.

The stun is on the first strike and does no damage. The rest of the pulsing field has no stuns and do damage.

 

It's a garbage design choice, which we can all agree on, but we can have body blow do power damage and operate within said design.

[Red Haired Savage.5430]

51 minutes ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

The stun is on the first strike and does no damage. The rest of the pulsing field has no stuns and do damage.

 

It's a garbage design choice, which we can all agree on, but we can have body blow do power damage and operate within said design.

It's not the same they get it just because they took the weapon, we have to take and entire trait line, which does condi damage in a power trait line. Even if the skill does nothing on the first hit (wiki doesn't say it does that) it's getting 2 skills for 1.  We have to follow up all our CC with something else.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

4 minutes ago, Red Haired Savage.5430 said:

It's not the same they get it just because they took the weapon, we have to take and entire trait line, which does condi damage in a power trait line. Even if the skill does nothing on the first hit (wiki doesn't say it does that) it's getting 2 skills for 1.  We have to follow up all our CC with something else.

Yeah, I know. Scrapper Hammer is one of my favorite weapons tbh. Wish I had it on warrior... Our skills do nothing special, so they at least should feel special when they connect.

 

Where did that unicorn magic go off to...

[Red Haired Savage.5430]

6 minutes ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

Yeah, I know. Scrapper Hammer is one of my favorite weapons tbh. Wish I had it on warrior... Our skills do nothing special, so they at least should feel special when they connect.

 

Where did that unicorn magic go off to...

Although looking at some of the other stuns some of them still have damage, mostly multi hit skills. There are some that still do minor damage which I think is ok, but the rest should be brought up to that. Looking at pistol-whip (Anet you brought this yourselves with the off-line baloney, fix this name because you actually go back and forth in the skill description from pistol whip to pistol-whip) first hit stuns then the rest do damage. I just don't think that's very fair when the rest of us have to burn extra skills to do anything.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

Just now, Red Haired Savage.5430 said:

Although looking at some of the other stuns some of them still have damage, mostly multi hit skills. There are some that still do minor damage which I think is ok, but the rest should be brought up to that. Looking at pistol-whip (Anet you brought this yourselves with the off-line baloney, fix this name because you actually go back and forth in the skill description from pistol whip to pistol-whip) first hit stuns then the rest do damage. I just don't think that's very fair when the rest of us have to burn extra skills to do anything.

When they did this God awful cc nerf any multihit skill that had a cc in it had it's cc front loaded and the initial damage removed.

 

It would be like if 100blades stunned on the first hit, then that hit would do no damage.

 

Also, can we get a stun on the first hit?

[Red Haired Savage.5430]

1 minute ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

When they did this God awful cc nerf any multihit skill that had a cc in it had it's cc front loaded and the initial damage removed.

 

It would be like if 100blades stunned on the first hit, then that hit would do no damage.

 

Also, can we get a stun on the first hit?

So we can stun ourselves (because root) and them? Might as well just headbutt them. 

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

Just now, Red Haired Savage.5430 said:

So we can stun ourselves (because root) and them? Might as well just headbutt them. 

Yeah the root is bs.

[Doomfrost.5728]

Yeah the negligible damage thing has always been strange to me especially being that players bring enough stability and blocking potential on their bars where it shouldn't be a problem, even then experienced players can evade hits as they come in. 

 

Warrior CC has always been about reading enemy boons and waiting for the opportune time to use a CC, not just waste it on the damage alone. Damage should be just an added bonus. 

[Grand Marshal.4098]

Nah people will QQ that our skills do too much stuff (CC + dmg) while knowing that things like guardian, soulbeast, mesmer, thief, renegade etc weapon/utility skills are plenty ok

[Doomfrost.5728]

I'd love to hear their opinions on GW1 hammer warriors then haha. You really want something to cry about, those beasts would keep you in a knock-lock for near eternity if they had their way.

[nthmetal.9652]

1 hour ago, Grand Marshal.4098 said:

Nah people will QQ that our skills do too much stuff (CC + dmg) while knowing that things like guardian, soulbeast, mesmer, thief, renegade etc weapon/utility skills are plenty ok

It's maybe, because Warriors are very visible. They don't do more than other professions. But they are in the frontline, often enough pushing even slightly ahead of the lead FB to get that bubble - which is also very visible - down.

In terms of how much professions do, scourge, still - even after all these nerfs -  IMO does more than warrior, with their corruption, damage, area denial, soft CC, barriers.

[nthmetal.9652]

In PvE warrior can keep up, but for group content, many people value bannerslaves. I wonder if PvE warriors would still be as much valued, if the banners would no longer raise stats, but instead only gave out boons. Pulsing Might, Fury, protection, what you want. Here's an interesting test for you, anet. If that change would lead to warriors no longer being valued as much (as there might be other DPS professions, that can also bring CC), you have your answer as to what you need to redesign to make banners less relevant, and thus the discipline traitline also be more of a fair choice compared to tactics, strength, and defense.

 

Edit: Yes I realized I didn't mention arms here. I am sure everyone can figure out why.

Edited May 27, 2021 by nthmetal.9652

[Red Haired Savage.5430]

In high end PvE content no they wouldn't be used nearly as much because other classes have higher DPS and burst potential. You'd be amazed at how much higher other classes burst potential is compared to warrior.