Heal Firebrand that dont provide stab, never use F3 in fractal and need rev to provide stab ? Don't tell me this is meta

[Rodrick.1942]

When you have a HB in the fractal group which : 

"Never give stability when there is lots of cc comes from adds/boss, and need renegade to cover it" 
"Rarely give other defense boons like regen/resistance/resolution/protection, instead keep spamming bow of truth"

Why not just find a druid / temepst which heal much more than crap HB ?

As HB, it's shame that you dont provide these defense boons which already on your hand, instead just keep spamming crappy healing and watch everyone get one shot. 

why does people call this meta ? 

 

[Noodle Ant.1605]

depends on what youre looking for

 

most people/pugs/idk want a hb for its role compression as both a healer and quickness source. ofc theres other stuff but these two the main ones that stick out when specifically asking for a hb

 

if you want heals/group sustain then theres plenty other options (including ones that specialize in just that) other than hb. on the other hand, i see stab and the other boons problem similar to asking dps players to cc, the player behind the hb has to know how to do that stuff to, well... do that stuff

 

which id never guarantee some random pug/person would do

[cat.8975]

1 hour ago, Rodrick.1942 said:

Why not just find a druid / temepst which heal much more than crap HB ?

Because you want quickness.
F3 tome has a long cooldown, so it's not a reliable source of consistent stab. It's usually not necessary to run more stab, as you can aegis most of the CC skills anyway.
The alacren is usually expected to run Jalis for a couple of fights where the extra stab is necessary, at least in pugs.

[Zhaid Zhem.6508]

Because most of players copy/paste what they see, what others tell them to play; but actually don't search why, don't look at the potential of  builds, can't adapt to every situations/encounters. ...Or they're just lazy, not in the mood. It happens sometimes.

 

It's the exact same thing with Alacrity Ren. Or a second war, or some condi builds in fractals (burning mostly).

"We need Ren, beause this is meta"  "Ah we got Ren, he doesn't even give perma alacrity, nor mights, nor stab, nor boonstrip, nor cc, nor soulcleave's summit, nor assassin's presence, nor protection, nor DPS... but we read Ren is meta, so we are  ! We're happy. "

 

With Fb-HFB, fortunately Quickness is a common expectation and not an issue here, but yes you have FB that don't include F2-F3 in rotation against some bosses, don't change traitlane and utility skills for virtues and wall/hallowed ground or Radiance for bane signet, etc.

 

It doesn't mean REN-FB aren't "meta".  Just a part of players don't know why and don't know how to play them.

They just assume they are meta because of only one tool ''FB=Quickness" "Ren=Alacrity" "War=Banners" but not because of a package of assets. That doesn't matter. On contrary they are on the right path. Just explain there are commun expectations from them to use Wall/bubble here, stab there, bane signet +PI for burst, use F2#4+#5 for good heal etc.

 

Edited May 28, 2021 by Zhaid Zhem.6508

[Rodrick.1942]

 

1 hour ago, cat.8975 said:

Because you want quickness.
F3 tome has a long cooldown, so it's not a reliable source of consistent stab. It's usually not necessary to run more stab, as you can aegis most of the CC skills anyway.
The alacren is usually expected to run Jalis for a couple of fights where the extra stab is necessary, at least in pugs.

F3 has long cd which means it's a situational tome which can turn the tide if HB know when to use it and manage cd well. Also a HB can maintain literally all boons by himself without alacren's help. IF HB IS GOOD ENOUGH then the group dps will be much higher because alacren is allowed to play full dps build or you can actually use any other dps class for this spot too. 

My point is if you bring a harrier HB in the group that only spam aegis and quickness, you'd better just take condi qb instead...
Guardian has various skill to deal with different situation, with new skills from FB you can do much more as support. Some dps class are also allowed to lash out more damage (eg : weaver) if they have a decent boon support teammate. 

Of course you can say i only know this way, yeah sure, but when no one know how to play HB properly in fractal, you will see more and more people stack up blue class in fractal t4/cms like we have now. Because it's not fun to play other dps spec in a tough fractal with kitten instability, and without proper support.  

Fun fact : before renegade's kala elite skill get nerfed, do you know that in fractal with meta HB/ren, it is renegade who keep group alive most of time ?  

Edited May 28, 2021 by Rodrick.1942

[SeTect.5918]

On 5/28/2021 at 11:09 AM, Rodrick.1942 said:

..., instead just keep spamming crappy healing and watch everyone get one shot. 

What can a healer do to a oneshot? There isnt a healer that can give you 1k toughness so u ll survive it. You gotta dodge 1 shots.

 

Also hfb is the best healer at the Moment because it gives perma quickness, 25 might, fury, regen, its sharing damage signets with teammates, nearly perm protection. It can give Resolution...why i even tell you. I could just say that it gives everything except alacrity. No other healer gives that much boon support AND can heal. Also the quickness is one of the most important boon hfb gives. There is no other healer that gives it even close to perm.

With a good Rotation, quickness increases your damage by nearly the Double.

No healer can hold on with hfb in 5 player content. 

If you want to buff a healer, do it with herald, tempest or druid. 

[cat.8975]

33 minutes ago, SeTect.5918 said:

With a good Rotation, quickness increases your damage by nearly the Double.

 

Quickness only increases your attack speed by 50%. It's still incredibly strong, but nowhere near double.

[Dadnir.5038]

I might be wrong but when playing at "meta" level, you're expected to deal with CC by yourself through your knowledge of the encounter mechanisms. While at pug level, you should never expect your teammate to support you optimaly (You'd end up disappointed anyway if you do). Only in static group playing for fun would you expect something from your teammate and, in that case, you'd be expected to be understanding for eventual mistake.

[SeTect.5918]

1 hour ago, cat.8975 said:

Quickness only increases your attack speed by 50%. It's still incredibly strong, but nowhere near double.

Fine, then quickness doesnt increase the damage by nearly double, but firebrand still does with the 25 stacks perm might, fury and so on. Lots of classes also have skills that increase damage for each boon on you. Firebrand is maybe the class with the most boons because it gives everything except alac.

[Infusion.7149]

Skipped the rest of thread but if they're spamming quickness they also spam aegis. Stability is not part of the meta build which is why you have this situation. I run mantra of liberation myself, but most run "Feel my wrath".

[kenny.7236]

I have also encountered no quickness HB & no stab or strip boons Alacren.

[Lord of the Fire.6870]

Well encountered such people too . I also run Mantra of Liberation when I'm playing HFB people actually have enough fury in the group not sure where it coming but it is there . So Mantra of Liberation in the obvious choice sometimes I even use Stand Your Ground. In general both HFB and Alarcrene don't run with fixed skill they need to change it for some encounters and instabilities.

[Zhaid Zhem.6508]

It depends of situations

"stab is not part of the meta build" for the regular build you want to share to every FB willing to support: it doesn't mean the buid is flat, that you can't find better assets to figure it out.

 

In your PUG, your Ren needs to take Mallyx for boonstrip on Chaos or skorvald you'll be like "Hey, stab on FB isn't meta; you're on your own."  "I play healer, but actually use heal skills are not meta" ? No, you change traits and skills to give a good stab uptime and make everyone happy.

Same for Siren's reef. Sometimes I don't feel it good; I take virtues traitlane + renewed focus, and use F3+walls/hallowed ground+F3. The "dps loss"  without radiance + bane signet is by far exceeded in group dps by sustain.

Edited June 2, 2021 by Zhaid Zhem.6508

[Infusion.7149]

Stab doesn't work on Sunqua or Siren's pushes

[Zhaid Zhem.6508]

It works on daze from the girls with staffs + boss aoe.

Edited June 2, 2021 by Zhaid Zhem.6508