Weapon set collection lack creativity and originality

[Astralporing.1957]

I think we need to differentiate between two different situations.

 

First is "package deals". Weapon sets that are meant to have tiers, or be a variation/upgrade to existing set. For those, it's not a case of lack of creativity, but rather an intention to either offer some visual choices, offer some sort of "visual progression", or be some sort of intentional "callback". In most cases the whole set was likely designed at the same time, and some of the exceptions to that (like color variations of the original fractal weapon sets) were introduced later due to popular demand, or as a result of some changes/revamp to the content they come from.

 

We do have a lot of those in the game. Practically all of the original map regions come with at least one such multitier set, and a lot of holidays have either upgradable sets, or a set that is a variation of some already existing skin. Or both (as in case of hologram weapons of the current holiday event). All collection sets that belong to collectionw with multiple tiers, with new tiers offering new sets are like that too.

 

Second is the actual lack of creativity. A case of introducing a seemingly completely new weapon set, that is also suspiciously very like something we've already seen before, where it happens because someone just couldn't be bothered to make an actual work to make something new.

 

And of those, there's very, very few examples in the game (and even of those, a few examples i can think of are very much a matter of interpretation about which category they should be put into).

 

So, @medivh.4725, if you disagree, i'd like to point to me all the examples you can find of cases where that "lack of creativity" you speak of happens that are not cases of

- sets created together as a visual variation

- sets that are a progression of each other

- sets that are a thematic callback

 

If you do that, i'm sure you will realize how few of those actually are in the game. Especially if you also look at how many completely different skins are being constantly inroduced.

 

(TL/DR; Yes, the inquest skins are a thing. My point is that, unlike what you claim, they are an exception, not a norm)

 

[medivh.4725]

1 hour ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

So, @medivh.4725, if you disagree, i'd like to point to me all the examples you can find of cases where that "lack of creativity" you speak of happens that are not cases of

- sets created together as a visual variation

- sets that are a progression of each other

- sets that are a thematic callback

Hi,

Is stated when first asked. Can scroll up. One have argued they all have their reasons for the variations.
I see this is going round and round and attracting people who liked color variations to be strongly protesting. Lol. But the other side is true that I have recieved information from various telling it the way they feel. Weapon skins seem repetitive 

I would take the opportunity to ask anet how the company decide which designs to be color fitted? Why some have few color in offering and some would have just one? Are there plans to make weapon set dyeable? Especially as backpack capes are already color dyeable... 
Progression ones like collection are not what this is about. I enjoy the fashion side of things but remembered times where my toons just cannot find the right fitting weapon skins. I literally spend hours looking at and for skins, hoping to find the right unique piece. So those were of course some of my observations.  

 

Edited June 23, 2021 by medivh.4725

[Astralporing.1957]

1 hour ago, medivh.4725 said:

Hi,

Is stated when first asked. Can scroll up. One have argued they all have their reasons for the variations.

Most of the skins you mentioned (with the exception of the inquest ones, but, as i said, they are an exception) belong to the first category, not the second one.

 

Quote

I see this is going round and round and attracting people who liked color variations to be strongly protesting. Lol. But the other side is true that I have recieved information from various telling it the way they feel. Weapon skins seem repetitive 

That's your own post, suggesting a specific skin. Hardly a proof for what you claim.

 

Quote

I would take the opportunity to ask anet how the company decide which designs to be color fitted? Why some have few color in offering and some would have just one? Are there plans to make weapon set dyeable? Especially as backpack capes are already color dyeable... 

As of last info, there are no plans to make weapons dyeable (there are apparently some problems witgh how they are coded that prevent that). On the other hand, the very same thing we've heard earlier about back items. Still, looking at back items, even if weapons will eventually be made dyeable, it will only apply to new skins, not the already existing ones.

 

Quote

I enjoy the fashion side of things but remembered times where my toons just cannot find the right fitting weapon skins. I literally spend hours looking at and for skins, hoping to find the right unique piece. So those were of course some of my observations. 

That's not due to lack of creativity though. That's simply due to your sense of aesthetics being different than that of Anet's artists. It's not like there's not a ton of unique skins. It's just that there's not enough unique skins that you like. That's however is a very subjective matter, not an objective issue. Because all those unique skins you completely ignore are still there.

 

I mean, LS5 alone introduced at least 4 distinct weapon set families (Boreal, Stormcaller, Tengu and Dragon ones). That's in addition to some individual skins or skin groups that do not make a whole set. Is that a sign of lack of creativity?

Edited June 23, 2021 by Astralporing.1957

[JekthAvid.1408]

I dunno, I really like the dark matter skins

[medivh.4725]

Eh excuse me Weapon skin seem repetitive author is Plainguy.1486 

 

If new weapons can be color changed it will be very nice option to have. The done ones are already done. 

I was looking at weapon gallery page, so that mean I have missed none. FYI...

Mentioned were

 

- Antique weapons series the ascended ones yeah? I could see 5 color variations in there.

- Wing weapons or Soldier set from Divinity Reach? There is a gold and silver version. Called Seraph.
- Glyphic set. The one asura uses. Now there is red and light blue. Red is the Inquest' of course. Except theres smoke

- Glitched set. I think there 3 colors now? You can check in with current SAB vendor

- Tengu echo. Now a red blinking version. And a gold version with light blue blinkers. 

- Nightmare set. There is a pink and a light green version.

- Stormcaller set. One version have sparks. And the usual flip of red and blue. Red with some smoke. Lol

 

Still if new weapons can be introduced to have ability to be color changed, it will be fantastic. Can't wait

 

 

Edited June 24, 2021 by medivh.4725

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

Unlikely to happen, as the Devs have explained many times.

 

Still, I suppose, 'never say never'. 

[Astralporing.1957]

2 hours ago, medivh.4725 said:

I was looking at weapon gallery page, so that mean I have missed none. FYI...

I did not say you missed some unique skins. I said you ignored them. I mean, if you did look at the weapon gallery page, you'd have to notice how many different and unique designs are there. And yet you act as if it was not the case.

 

Quote

Mentioned were

 

- Antique weapons series the ascended ones yeah? I could see 5 color variations in there.

- Wing weapons or Soldier set from Divinity Reach? There is a gold and silver version. Called Seraph.
- Glyphic set. The one asura uses. Now there is red and light blue. Red is the Inquest' of course. Except theres smoke

- Glitched set. I think there 3 colors now? You can check in with current SAB vendor

- Tengu echo. Now a red blinking version. And a gold version with light blue blinkers. 

- Nightmare set. There is a pink and a light green version.

- Stormcaller set. One version have sparks. And the usual flip of red and blue. Red with some smoke. Lol

Yes, as i said, all those you mentioned are from the first category. Those are not a separate weapon sets that only look similar/the same because someone lacked imagination. They are weapon families, within which similarities are completely, 100% intended. Usually for thematic reasons. In short: removing the variants would not give you completely new and unique sets. It would just give you less sets.

 

At the same time you completely ignore the fact, that within the same timeframes a multitude of other sets were created, that are in no way similar to those you mentioned. In example, you bring up how tengu weapons are similar to each other, or how stormcaller weapons are similar to each other, but ignore that the tengu and stormcaller groups of weapons (both created during LS5) are very much not like each other. And that alongside those two sets at least two other weapon groups were made (Boreal and Dragon Slayer ones), as well as a number of individual unique weapon skins.

 

Is four distinctily unique weapon groups in one LS season not enough for you? Do you expect a new and unique weapon set  every week, in order to not be mentioning lack of creativity? Or is it that you want weapon sets that are appealing to you, specifically?

 

 

Edited June 24, 2021 by Astralporing.1957

[medivh.4725]

1 hour ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

I did not say you missed some unique skins. I said you ignored them. I mean, if you did look at the weapon gallery page, you'd have to notice how many different and unique designs are there. And yet you act as if it was not the case.

Hmm I said I cannot find matching ones for my toons. That is different from being ignored.

1 hour ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

Yes, as i said, all those you mentioned are from the first category. Those are not a separate weapon sets that only look similar/the same because someone lacked imagination. They are weapon families, within which similarities are completely, 100% intended. Usually for thematic reasons. In short: removing the variants would not give you completely new and unique sets. It would just give you less sets.

I have not asked for removal of variants. How would that be productive

1 hour ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

At the same time you completely ignore the fact, that within the same timeframes a multitude of other sets were created, that are in no way similar to those you mentioned. In example, you bring up how tengu weapons are similar to each other, or how stormcaller weapons are similar to each other, but ignore that the tengu and stormcaller groups of weapons (both created during LS5) are very much not like each other. And that alongside those two sets at least two other weapon groups were made (Boreal and Dragon Slayer ones), as well as a number of individual unique weapon skins.

Sorry I have no idea which set was introduced when, but I did have look on all skins as have said previously..

If you did read that thread link posted twice now, you could see a returning player saying he is seeing more of the same when he left game and got back. And that was 4 years since

1 hour ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

Is four distinctily unique weapon groups in one LS season not enough for you? Do you expect a new and unique weapon set  every week, in order to not be mentioning lack of creativity? Or is it that you want weapon sets that are appealing to you, specifically?

Its a general perception that we're seeing weapon range being introduced as new but were color flips. 

Think about it this way if anet can make weapons dyeable and focus instead making different looking skins, the community at large will mostly benefit from this diverse weaponary ecosystem. I know players who play a certain toon just because they liked a certain weapon (or skin). I actually think the armors are pretty well done. Spoilt for choices. Weapons wise if you inherited things done by previous designers fine. Anet should try to build on what they current has and look to bring in things they do not have. New things excite players. You should aim for a stage where for players, I don't know which weapon to main, as there just so many nice designs to choose from. I think if you get there it will be so much more enjoyable and so much more fun

Edited June 24, 2021 by medivh.4725

[Astralporing.1957]

32 minutes ago, medivh.4725 said:

Hmm I said I cannot find matching ones for my toons. That is different from being ignored.

And yet you do keep ignoring the fact that there is a multitude of unique, distinct weapon skin designs.

 

32 minutes ago, medivh.4725 said:

I have not asked for removal of variants. How would that be productive

Well, you are picking on cases in which the sets were designed from the get-go to be variants (like the color-coded crafted ascended weapons - there never was an option of having a distinct set for a different primary stat. The alternative was simply having all the ascended weapons sharing a single set)

 

32 minutes ago, medivh.4725 said:

Sorry I have no idea which set was introduced when, but I did have look on all skins as have said previously..

And yet you haven't noticed that most of them are not repetitions of each other?

 

 

32 minutes ago, medivh.4725 said:

If you did read that thread link posted twice now, you could see a returning player saying he is seeing more of the same when he left game and got back. And that was 4 years since

Its a general perception that we're seeing weapon range being introduced as new but were color flips. 

One returning player starting a thread in which noone agreed with him  (not even you - your only point in hat hread was asking for a specific skin) is not a "general perception".

 

 

32 minutes ago, medivh.4725 said:

Think about it this way if anet can make weapons dyeable and focus instead making different looking skins, the community at large will mostly benefit from this diverse weaponary ecosystem.

Again, the sets you speak of were from the get go intended to be variants. If Anet not decided to make those variants, it would only have resulted in less sets - because there was never an option of having completely different sets in this place.

 

Also, as i have mentioned to you many times over (and as you would know, if you really looked at the weapon galleries, like you claimed you did), we already have a diverse weaponary ecosystem.

 

32 minutes ago, medivh.4725 said:

I know players who play a certain toon just because they liked a certain weapon. If you inherit things that were done by previous designers fine. Anet should try to build on what they current has and look to bring in things they do not have. New things excite players.

And they are doing that. Like i said, LS 5 alone introduced 4 distinct and unique weapon sets. How many more did you want?

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

Not to mention the Black Lion Weapon Sets released during that period. 

[Eloc Freidon.5692]

IBS implementation of weapon sets is objectively lazy and grotesque compared to every Living World season before it. Making worse looking versions of the good looking versions of weapons is bloat. The two stormbringer tiers with less lightning and big lightning is a prime example. The starting boreal weapons would be even worse if they weren't that much cheaper to make, but shouldn't exist anyways.

[b k.1648]

I skipped all the IBS sets myself, but given the boundary of laziness is inherently subjective, I'd omit the "objectively" bit.

 

I actually find the lower-tier versions of some weapon and armour series to be preferable because they're a bit cleaner. Sunspear over Spearmarshal's set, Elegy over Requiem, and so on. Likewise with tiered weapons, most add gaudiness and particle effects which I prefer to leave out - including some legendaries where their precursors look better to me. I imagine I'm not the only player out there who is happy they've included more than just the highest-tier versions with full particle effects.

[Astralporing.1957]

On 6/25/2021 at 2:59 PM, Eloc Freidon.5692 said:

IBS implementation of weapon sets is objectively lazy and grotesque compared to every Living World season before it. Making worse looking versions of the good looking versions of weapons is bloat. The two stormbringer tiers with less lightning and big lightning is a prime example. The starting boreal weapons would be even worse if they weren't that much cheaper to make, but shouldn't exist anyways.

Don't use the word "objectively" when you're supporting it with your purely subjective judgement of skin aestethics.

[Tails.9372]

On 6/23/2021 at 12:14 PM, Astralporing.1957 said:

It's not like there's not a ton of unique skins.

 

Creativity is not just limited to the skins themselves, as I said earlier almost all projectile based ranged weapon designs use the standard projectile animations / sound effects. This oftentimes completely breaks the immersion (e.g. energy crystals shooting regular bullets with black powder effects) and calling it "a lack of creativity" is already an unreasonably generous interpretation of the situation at hand with the lack of originality being a given.

Edited June 27, 2021 by Tails.9372

[Astralporing.1957]

1 hour ago, Tails.9372 said:

 

Creativity is not just limited to the skins themselves, as I said earlier almost all projectile based ranged weapon designs use the standard projectile animations / sound effects. This oftentimes completely breaks the immersion (e.g. energy crystals shooting regular bullets with black powder effects) and calling it "a lack of creativity" is already an unreasonably generous interpretation of the situation at hand with the lack of originality being a given.

Says you. For me, i'd attribute it more to game engine limitations and not enough resources for stuff like that.

 

I.e. It's not lack of creativity that we have only one set of transforming armor. It's due to the fact that this one set took them over a year to make. Similarily, nonstandard projectile animations and sound effects all means having to do more work - and that is the reason why you don't see more of them.

[Tails.9372]

42 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

Says you. For me, i'd attribute it more to game engine limitations and not enough resources for stuff like that.

 

That's what the facts are saying, you're just being dismissive for the sake of it. Some rare exceptions for ranged weapon designs like the Pop Gun do have both matching projectile animations and sound effects so there are no  "game engine limitations" at play here.

 

 

42 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

Similarily, nonstandard projectile animations and sound effects all means having to do more work - and that is the reason why you don't see more of them.

 

That's just an excuse and a bad one at that as no one asked for them to be overly flashy / detailed like the ones from the legendary designs and as I said several weapons already have matching SFX in the files which they just choose not to link to the weapons in question. But yes, like I said "calling it "a lack of creativity" is already an unreasonably generous interpretation" because them just not wanting to put in the effort seems to be the actual reason here as they've already proven that they're capable of doing it which means that  "weapon set collection lack originality" is a perfectly valid thing to criticise.

[ilMasa.2546]

On 6/5/2021 at 5:41 AM, fenriswolfman.5486 said:

 Ive purchased a few myself to help encourage the practice.

No. You purchased a few cos u wanted to.

Stop pretending to spend money for greater causes when you know u wanted those skins lol

[miraude.2107]

Maybe ask for another contest then?

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Design-a-Weapon_Contest

 

It's actually amazing how many times I pull out Favor or Eclipse and people do not know they exist. So ask for another contest. Ask Anet when will we do another one, why not another contest, be great to see another weapon design contest, etc, etc, etc.

 

Or ask for the other 17 designs that made it to final round be implemented into the game. (I really wanted the gazelle-ish shield >.>)

Edited June 27, 2021 by miraude.2107

[Eloc Freidon.5692]

19 hours ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

Don't use the word "objectively" when you're supporting it with your purely subjective judgement of skin aestethics.

Objectively is correct when every season before has had each weapon set look different than the rest, while IBS has multiple sets (up to three each) look exactly the same. I pointed out how two weapon sets have the exact same color and esthetics with barely any difference. That is an objective point of view.

[Eloc Freidon.5692]

There are way too many skin sets that have been released that require engagement with the cash shop, while releasing so many uninteresting sets that require in game effort and legendary levels of resources to get.

 

This game sorely lacks unique skins that can be dropped or farmed for at reasonable rates.

[Astralporing.1957]

7 minutes ago, Eloc Freidon.5692 said:

Objectively is correct when every season before has had each weapon set look different than the rest, while IBS has multiple sets (up to three each) look exactly the same. I pointed out how two weapon sets have the exact same color and esthetics with barely any difference. That is an objective point of view.

That's actually, objectively false. There have been upgradable sets in the past (need i remind you about Astral/Stellar, or Dragonsborn/Heroic Dragonsborn?). And IBS does have several distinct sets (boreal, Tengu, Stormcaller and Dragon Slayer), and in this it is not inferior to other seasons. And of course the part in which you claim that all IBS weapon skin upgrades are an upgrade for worse (and that Boreal weapons should not even exist) are completely subjective.

[Eloc Freidon.5692]

9 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

That's actually, objectively false. There have been upgradable sets in the past (need i remind you about Astral/Stellar, or Dragonsborn/Heroic Dragonsborn?). And IBS does have several distinct sets (boreal, Tengu, Stormcaller and Dragon Slayer), and in this it is not inferior to other seasons. And of course the part in which you claim that all IBS weapon skin upgrades are an upgrade for worse (and that Boreal weapons should not even exist) are completely subjective.

Upgradeable sets are trash when they barely look any different then previous versions. You're the one being subjective.

[Astralporing.1957]

39 minutes ago, Eloc Freidon.5692 said:

Upgradeable sets are trash when they barely look any different then previous versions. You're the one being subjective.

No. We both are being subjective about judging those sets. Still, the objective truth is that IBS has 4 distinct, separate weapon sets that are in no way "barely any different" from each other. Boreals are not Stormcallers are not Tengu are not Dragon Slayers. That's not any worse than other LS seasons.

[Sobx.1758]

2 hours ago, Eloc Freidon.5692 said:

Upgradeable sets are trash when they barely look any different then previous versions. You're the one being subjective.

And you claiming "upgradeable sets are trash" isn't subjective? 🙃 

[Khisanth.2948]

On 6/4/2021 at 11:31 PM, medivh.4725 said:

It seem the weapon design team is also lacking research and understanding to what makes a weapon desirable to gamers. The 'original content' element is seen lacking.

Nonsense. This is trivial knowledge. Glowsticks. Always glowsticks.