Ranger Solo Roaming WvW Build

[bigo.9037]

6 minutes ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

 

I sorta had to bring personalities in to this because at this point we just have this stalemate of 'SLB is superior' without literally any video evidence for those claims.  Theoreticals are a whole lot different than practicals.

 

Outside that I don't watch anyone on YT or Twitch unless I'm looking up another opinion on a build...which is how I found out Vallun and a few others runs condi / immob Druid.  

 

We need practical / actual examples as well, because we did have a few month's back the 'can't kill the Druid' challenge where had a Druid build stalemate a SB build by just running around.  In an area with no LoS blocks and confined, all which are in SLB favor.  

 

Anyway, the topic IS titled 'Ranger Solo Roaming WvW Build' so if Druid isn't completely unviable 'especially solo' then I'm not sure why we continue the discussion really.  If I can agree (and have) that SLB is much better in a power setup then I'm not sure why others can't agree condi immob Druid is most likely the best roaming condi setup ranger has.  

Okay. I'll make a short video where i demonstrate the  issues with druid. I Don't currently have a template swap or gearset ready for condi ATM cus i decided it wasnt worth while at all since condi ranger in wvw just doesnt work well, So youll have to bare with me when i try to explain the troubles druid has when compared to soulbeast. if you could just send me the build in question tho, ill go over that in the video as well. 

[bigo.9037]

Ended up finishing my newest vid instead. i can still make a new one tomorrow about the druid differences. I'll be doing a dps comparison and going over traits, downsides etc. Even tho its gonna be on power, it will still show you what im talking about @Gotejjeken.1267
 

 

[Downstate.4697]

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?POwAExflRweYQMPmJW0W6P1BEB-zVZYbBLG2RUDlRmVQvpgnXEBZDokzwsM/ZE-w

 

This is the most fun I have had on ranger. Insane mobility with stupid amounts of evade. 

[Zyreva.1078]

10 hours ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

 

I sorta had to bring personalities in to this because at this point we just have this stalemate of 'SLB is superior' without literally any video evidence for those claims.  Theoreticals are a whole lot different than practicals.

 

Outside that I don't watch anyone on YT or Twitch unless I'm looking up another opinion on a build...which is how I found out Vallun and a few others runs condi / immob Druid.  

 

We need practical / actual examples as well, because we did have a few month's back the 'can't kill the Druid' challenge where had a Druid build stalemate a SB build by just running around.  In an area with no LoS blocks and confined, all which are in SLB favor.  

 

Anyway, the topic IS titled 'Ranger Solo Roaming WvW Build' so if Druid isn't completely unviable 'especially solo' then I'm not sure why we continue the discussion really.  If I can agree (and have) that SLB is much better in a power setup then I'm not sure why others can't agree condi immob Druid is most likely the best roaming condi setup ranger has.  

 Pretty sure there are way more soulbeast roaming videos on YT than druid videos. Even vallun should have at least one , so if that's what you are looking for, it is easy to find (keep in mind that he does not play those builds regulary, he just plays them for video footage, then moves on to the next class/build, so not the best source for ranger stuff in particular).

 

The "can't kill druid challenge" originated from a "druid is better than slb" claim which got disproven clearly, considering the druid had zero kill potential and was forced to play 100% defensive to survive. LOS was pretty irrelevant, because the slb was not running LB (nor Sic'Em). Being able to stalemate a 1vs1 does not make a build good.

 

The main reasons why druid is worse than slb for solo roaming have been mentioned already plenty of times but i'll sum them up for you again (all of that is true for both power and condi!).

 

Significantly less dmg (single target and especially aoe). Dmg is very relevant for solo roaming, because the longer it takes to kill a player, especially arround enemy structures, the more likely it is for more opponents to show up. Also the quicker you can kill, the faster you can move on to do some more killing or capping or whatever your goal is.

 

Does not handle downstate very well in outnumbered situations due to lack of cleave and very limited safe stomping options.

 

Very vulnerable to getting focused and locked down. No on demand stability. No soft cc immunity. Little means to avoid dmg/cc. Dolyak Stance is ranger's only stun break that prevents chain cc and getting important skills (mobility, heals) interrupted. On druid it just takes some random cc to interrupt ancestral grace and mobility/escape is denied.

 

Pets die very easily, further handicapping the build.

 

So what exactly does druid better? Stealth? No. Mobility? No. Healing? Maybe, if you got the time to spam some CA skills. Which you often don't when you need it the most.

That leaves perma rooting a single target as only thing that condi druid does better than slb, which does not make up for all the downsides.

This does not mean druid is not viable for solo roaming. It is. Just like core ranger - which is my preferred ranger spec and i can farm most slb easily on that in 1vs1 (even outnumbered sometimes).

But there are things which slb simply does better and a lot of those things just happen to be very relevant for solo roaming.

 

 

@bigo.9037 Finally another Spike Trap enjoyer ❤️

 

 

Edited September 3, 2021 by UmbraNoctis.1907

[Gotejjeken.1267]

6 hours ago, UmbraNoctis.1907 said:

...

 

The main reasons why druid is worse than slb for solo roaming have been mentioned already plenty of times but i'll sum them up for you again (all of that is true for both power and condi!).

 

Significantly less dmg (single target and especially aoe). Dmg is very relevant for solo roaming, because the longer it takes to kill a player, especially arround enemy structures, the more likely it is for more opponents to show up. Also the quicker you can kill, the faster you can move on to do some more killing or capping or whatever your goal is.

 

Does not handle downstate very well in outnumbered situations due to lack of cleave and very limited safe stomping options.

 

Very vulnerable to getting focused and locked down. No on demand stability. No soft cc immunity. Little means to avoid dmg/cc. Dolyak Stance is ranger's only stun break that prevents chain cc and getting important skills (mobility, heals) interrupted. On druid it just takes some random cc to interrupt ancestral grace and mobility/escape is denied.

 

Pets die very easily, further handicapping the build.

 

So what exactly does druid better? Stealth? No. Mobility? No. Healing? Maybe, if you got the time to spam some CA skills. Which you often don't when you need it the most.

That leaves perma rooting a single target as only thing that condi druid does better than slb, which does not make up for all the downsides.

This does not mean druid is not viable for solo roaming. It is. Just like core ranger - which is my preferred ranger spec and i can farm most slb easily on that in 1vs1 (even outnumbered sometimes).

But there are things which slb simply does better and a lot of those things just happen to be very relevant for solo roaming

 

Trimmed that to the relevant part for my reply; my problem is I believe all those are arguable:

 

For less damage, I would say spike damage definitely is non-existent (in a power sense).  You can get a lot of damage out of good condi application, and I see 'but cleanse' as no excuse just like for power having perma protection / weakness to deal with is no excuse for a build being good or bad.

 

 I find downstate handling better since you can do it from stealth at any time like a thief.  I find in group settings the daze from lunar impact is enough to get rezzers off and if I personally can't secure the stomp they can't finish rezzing either.  

 

Getting focused is about the only weakness, as yes you can get chain CC'd.  Very few players seem to know how to do that, and in fact I'm shocked when I see it.  As for soft-CC, you essentially have immunity through staff #4, and the million condi clears you have access to.

 

Pets dying easily is also an issue, but using tankier ones and swapping solves that unless vastly outnumbered with AoE everywhere...don't find that much myself in small roaming situations.

 

For better, I'd say Druid kites way better than a SLB does...at least for better ROI.  Staff alone is packed with pretty much every defensive util you need (aside from stability); while on SLB you have to take GS at all times, and if you want actual mobility must take bird over smokescale...which can very problematic.  Basically you are forced to leap into smoke field, which is way riskier way IMO to get stealth than popping CA and exiting (as can get CC very easy out of the leap unless you waste dolyak).  

 

So at the end of the day, I just don't like the phrase 'better than'.  I don't think any spec on ranger is strictly  'better than' another.  

 

[Gotejjeken.1267]

7 hours ago, bigo.9037 said:

Ended up finishing my newest vid instead. i can still make a new one tomorrow about the druid differences. I'll be doing a dps comparison and going over traits, downsides etc. Even tho its gonna be on power, it will still show you what im talking about @Gotejjeken.1267
 

 

 

I mean yes, if we're talking about ganking randos that have no idea what projectile blocks are then that build is superior. 

 

It still seemed to struggle a bit against the scourge (really the only tankyish thing featured in the vid), at least long enough to get another player involved.  

 

But I'd think distracting groups and trolling points would be hard on that build, so goes back to my point of everything has a weakness and nothing is 'strictly better'. 

[bigo.9037]

3 hours ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

 

I mean yes, if we're talking about ganking randos that have no idea what projectile blocks are then that build is superior. 

 

It still seemed to struggle a bit against the scourge (really the only tankyish thing featured in the vid), at least long enough to get another player involved.  

 

But I'd think distracting groups and trolling points would be hard on that build, so goes back to my point of everything has a weakness and nothing is 'strictly better'. 

Man... okay, listen. what do YOU want to do  while roaming? i wanna fight other players and win. i want to win the fight before more enemies show up. I wanna be able to get out of a tricky situation where im outnumbered or a blob is trying to run me over. if you wanna troll, thats fair. but druid doesnt fight better than soulbeast and thats been our point this whole time. 

 

Druid suffers from projectile blocks ALSO, so i dont see what your point is about that at all? unless ... are you trying to kill people with staff auto attacks? cmon dude. what a meme. 

 

As for the scourge that i was """""struggling""""" with, well before the clip starts, i was being chased by the scourge and thief for about 20 seconds prior. the thief did all the dmg, the scourge was merely trrying to catch up with me. 

 

Keep in mind, im running a suboptimal build. This isnt an optimal soulbeast build that you could compare to other meta roaming builds, and yet, it still performs about 10 times better than a druid of any kind would in these scenarios. 

[bigo.9037]

3 hours ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

 

Trimmed that to the relevant part for my reply; my problem is I believe all those are arguable:

 

For less damage, I would say spike damage definitely is non-existent (in a power sense).  You can get a lot of damage out of good condi application, and I see 'but cleanse' as no excuse just like for power having perma protection / weakness to deal with is no excuse for a build being good or bad.

 

 I find downstate handling better since you can do it from stealth at any time like a thief.  I find in group settings the daze from lunar impact is enough to get rezzers off and if I personally can't secure the stomp they can't finish rezzing either.  

 

Getting focused is about the only weakness, as yes you can get chain CC'd.  Very few players seem to know how to do that, and in fact I'm shocked when I see it.  As for soft-CC, you essentially have immunity through staff #4, and the million condi clears you have access to.

 

Pets dying easily is also an issue, but using tankier ones and swapping solves that unless vastly outnumbered with AoE everywhere...don't find that much myself in small roaming situations.

 

For better, I'd say Druid kites way better than a SLB does...at least for better ROI.  Staff alone is packed with pretty much every defensive util you need (aside from stability); while on SLB you have to take GS at all times, and if you want actual mobility must take bird over smokescale...which can very problematic.  Basically you are forced to leap into smoke field, which is way riskier way IMO to get stealth than popping CA and exiting (as can get CC very easy out of the leap unless you waste dolyak).  

 

So at the end of the day, I just don't like the phrase 'better than'.  I don't think any spec on ranger is strictly  'better than' another.  

 

1, objectively speaking, soulbeast has more damage both condi and power. 

2, soulbeast can stomp from stealth too.

3, soulbeast has more cleanses than druid does, and does NOT NEED to sacrafice ANYTHING to gain celestial avatar. if you think getting CC chained is rare, buddy, i think you must be fighting a bunch of very bad players. it happens all the time. especially if youre outnumbered. 

4, if you have to switch to tanky pets just to avoid them dying, then thats another downside of druid. cus then youre not running the pets you want to. 

5, druid can indeed kite  better than soulbeast, but only because of staff.  and staff has 0 damage in wvw. its  absolutely pointless. you have an entire weapon set  just for kiting that has 0 damage. sounds more like a tradeoff than an actual upside. 

as for stealth from CA, well, youre wasting usually, a utility slot or a rune, or a foodbuff to keep celestial avatar up when its off cooldown. or all of the above. things like mango pie, rune of dolyak, signet of renewal. these are common tradeoffs druid must deal with just in order to fucntion. youre doing all that, just for some stealth and superspeed with a daze. the heals mean nothing these days. 

you dont need to use bird for mobility, smokescale has plenty with smoke assault. its a teleport of about 900 range, and its instant. you can let the animation run, or you can cancel it to just use it as a teleport. 

[Gotejjeken.1267]

21 minutes ago, bigo.9037 said:

Man... okay, listen. what do YOU want to do  while roaming? i wanna fight other players and win. i want to win the fight before more enemies show up. I wanna be able to get out of a tricky situation where im outnumbered or a blob is trying to run me over. if you wanna troll, thats fair. but druid doesnt fight better than soulbeast and thats been our point this whole time. 

 

Druid suffers from projectile blocks ALSO, so i dont see what your point is about that at all? unless ... are you trying to kill people with staff auto attacks? cmon dude. what a meme. 

 

As for the scourge that i was """""struggling""""" with, well before the clip starts, i was being chased by the scourge and thief for about 20 seconds prior. the thief did all the dmg, the scourge was merely trrying to catch up with me. 

 

Keep in mind, im running a suboptimal build. This isnt an optimal soulbeast build that you could compare to other meta roaming builds, and yet, it still performs about 10 times better than a druid of any kind would in these scenarios. 

 

I dunno why these discussions always have the out of 'was running subomtimal build', when I can tell you the 2v1 wouldn't have been a problem on the Druid either, but with about 8k more health leeway to boot.  

 

If you are running a 'suboptimal build'...why? You want to win the fight before anyone shows up, so run proper builds? 

 

As for the rest, all agree to disagree.  I don't use Dolyak runes (use Krait) and I've mentioned many times on the forums that TU and regen ticks makes it so you never have to worry about CA as its literally always available.  

[bigo.9037]

3 hours ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

 

I dunno why these discussions always have the out of 'was running subomtimal build', when I can tell you the 2v1 wouldn't have been a problem on the Druid either, but with about 8k more health leeway to boot.  

 

If you are running a 'suboptimal build'...why? You want to win the fight before anyone shows up, so run proper builds? 

 

As for the rest, all agree to disagree.  I don't use Dolyak runes (use Krait) and I've mentioned many times on the forums that TU and regen ticks makes it so you never have to worry about CA as its literally always available.  

I have a personal preference for playing glass. So ill happily trade sustain for more damage. I could play boonbeast and have about 75% of the same damage but 100% more  sustain. i just choose not to do that cus i dont think its fun. and i never said you cant or shouldnt play druid, play whatever you like. but my point this whole time  is that objectively speaking druid isnt as strong as soulbeast is.