Throw Mine Skill

This skill has been overlooked for a while but it most definitely needs to be toned down. It does way too much on a short cooldown. The only reason why it's been left like this for so long is because very few people play it. But for those who play in relatively high ranks on NA will know that one particular Scrapper player has centered his build around this skill for a long time, to great success.

Please devs, look into this. I am not the only one, there are numerous other posts if you do a simple search.

@Nero Wrought.1452 said:This skill has been overlooked for a while but it most definitely needs to be toned down. It does way too much on a short cooldown. The only reason why it's been left like this for so long is because very few people play it. But for those who play in relatively high ranks on NA will know that one particular Scrapper player has centered his build around this skill for a long time, to great success.

Please devs, look into this. I am not the only one, there are numerous other posts if you do a simple search.

doesnt sound like a big problem tbh, if theres just a few players using this it doesnt warrant a nerf just to apeal to ur convenience

Doesn't seem that crazy, tbh. Knockback, 3 boons removed and a blast finisher. They needed to give it something, since they completely removed all damage from that skill, so they increased the boons it is ripping in PvP.

Just because there is one player in your mind who uses this skill for success does not mean we should nerf it. How about we let at least one of the gadgets not be terrible?

Gadgets need to do a lot of things to compete with other engineer utilities - kits and elixirs, to compensate lack of weapon swap. I'd even go as far as saying other gadgets need buffs to give us a reason to use them (looking at you, utility goggles).

@Samug.6512 said:Gadgets need to do a lot of things to compete with other engineer utilities - kits and elixirs, to compensate lack of weapon swap. I'd even go as far as saying other gadgets need buffs to give us a reason to use them (looking at you, utility goggles).

Battering Ram is the worst, IMO. Utility Goggles is also bad though. The rest of the Gadgets are situationally good and at least decent in general. Not that I'm saying they don't deserve a little improvement, but just that they warrant a place on the utility bar at times, at least in WvW or PvP.

Battering Ram though, half of what made that skill good was how much damage the utility belt skill did. That thing could chunk good and hard before they removed the damage. Now it's just a projectile daze. And the actual utility skill has always been terrible because it has a heavy cast time and a range of 180 which is astoundingly stupid for how slow it is.

@"SpellOfIniquity.1780" said:

@Samug.6512 said:Gadgets need to do a lot of things to compete with other engineer utilities - kits and elixirs, to compensate lack of weapon swap. I'd even go as far as saying other gadgets need buffs to give us a reason to use them (looking at you, utility goggles).

Tbh, I can't even remember when I saw someone using slick shoes the last time, must have been years.

It was good for some time in raids when you could break breakbars with it quickly, thanks to multiple puddles hitting and pulsing the knockdown on the boss.But since they changed it, that skill doesn't really provide all that much anymore. We have better options for hard cc and the toolbelt skill gets easily outclassed now by stuff like bypass coating.

@Kodama.6453 said:

@"SpellOfIniquity.1780" said:

@Samug.6512 said:Gadgets need to do a lot of things to compete with other engineer utilities - kits and elixirs, to compensate lack of weapon swap. I'd even go as far as saying other gadgets need buffs to give us a reason to use them (looking at you, utility goggles).

I was thinking more from a PvP/WvW perspective. I rarely set foot in PvE for anything besides living world stuff so I often forget these conversations could be directed toward PvE, my bad.

Slick Shoes can be pretty funny in WvW though. I enjoy running through a zerg with Static Shield + Slick Shoes and watching all the people get CC'd as I pass through.

@"SpellOfIniquity.1780" said:

@Kodama.6453 said:

@"SpellOfIniquity.1780" said:

@Samug.6512 said:Gadgets need to do a lot of things to compete with other engineer utilities - kits and elixirs, to compensate lack of weapon swap. I'd even go as far as saying other gadgets need buffs to give us a reason to use them (looking at you, utility goggles).

I was speaking about all game modes, actually.Didn't see anyone using slick shoes anywhere, not PvE, not PvP, not WvW.

Using slick shoes with static shield also seems a bit redundant for me. You are already ccing everyone who dares to hit you in melee range while using the static shield, slick shoes also requires the enemies to stand in the puddles, which is basically meaning melee range. So it seems you are just ccing targets you are already ccing anyway...Only upside is that it ccs enemies for 2 seconds instead of 1.

But I don't know if this really warrants using slick shoes over something else.Especially since it has such a long cooldown (40 seconds).

@Kodama.6453 said:

@"SpellOfIniquity.1780" said:

@Kodama.6453 said:

@"SpellOfIniquity.1780" said:

@Samug.6512 said:Gadgets need to do a lot of things to compete with other engineer utilities - kits and elixirs, to compensate lack of weapon swap. I'd even go as far as saying other gadgets need buffs to give us a reason to use them (looking at you, utility goggles).

Not everyone is going to be hitting me, so people that do might get CC'd twice but those that don't will still get knocked down. Obviously it doesn't always work because often times everyone has Stability, but I was just making the point that it can be fun to use.

As for actual usefulness, yes it is pretty bad and rarely will you want to take it over something else. But I do think a long duration, unblockable knockdown is pretty decent, especially because you can use it during attacks. There are some things it will be quite good against, but most things not. Do keep in mind it can mess with staff Thieves or anyone trying to block while in your face.

I rarely ever use it myself. The only gadget I sometimes slot is Rocket Boots for being a pest - in any 1 v 1 it's a wasted slot, but it's quite good for dealing with multiple people.

@Kodama.6453 said:Doesn't seem that crazy, tbh. Knockback, 3 boons removed and a blast finisher. They needed to give it something, since they completely removed all damage from that skill, so they increased the boons it is ripping in PvP.

Just because there is one player in your mind who uses this skill for success does not mean we should nerf it. How about we let at least one of the gadgets not be terrible?

As far as I remember, it still does pre-patch damage. Unless they hot fixed that.

@Ghos.1326 said:

@Kodama.6453 said:Doesn't seem that crazy, tbh. Knockback, 3 boons removed and a blast finisher. They needed to give it something, since they completely removed all damage from that skill, so they increased the boons it is ripping in PvP.

Just because there is one player in your mind who uses this skill for success does not mean we should nerf it. How about we let at least one of the gadgets not be terrible?

Yeah, when the patch hit, anet forgot to also change the version of the skill when you have the trait gadgeteer. Wasn't something new, they always forgot it.

However, that bug already got fixed. Just went to PvP to check myself, throw mine crits for 10 damage, with the gadgeteer trait and without it. So no, it isn't dealing any damage anymore.

Mines are our only boonstrips, so I think it needs to stay the way it is.

More people seem to consider taking Throw-Mine now in WvW.

I see more and more people replacing inventions for tools and bulwark for mine, even though that's almost 60% healing loss.You can get up to scourge-level in strips within a zerg-fight, though.Also nice synergy with expert-examination, which ignores stability for some reason.Personally I'm a fan of dmg-scrappers with tools instead of firearms. The dmg-loss is only around 10-20% with the same strip-effects.

Considering that you need to sacrifice an utility-slot and a traitline (tools is nice to have, but not really effective for dmg or heal), you can place the second mine only at your own location, minefield only removes 5 boons in total with random placement and you can only blast, strip and knockback with the mine at the same time, mines seem pretty balanced.Perhaps 3s more CD if nerfs are needed, but reducing boons-strip will delete them again from gameplay.

@Dediggefedde.4961 said:More people seem to consider taking Throw-Mine now in WvW.

I see more and more people replacing inventions for tools and bulwark for mine, even though that's almost 60% healing loss.You can get up to scourge-level in strips within a zerg-fight, though.Also nice synergy with expert-examination, which ignores stability for some reason.Personally I'm a fan of dmg-scrappers with tools instead of firearms. The dmg-loss is only around 10-20% with the same strip-effects.

Considering that you need to sacrifice an utility-slot and a traitline (tools is nice to have, but not really effective for dmg or heal), you can place the second mine only at your own location, minefield only removes 5 boons in total with random placement and you can only blast, strip and knockback with the mine at the same time, mines seem pretty balanced.Perhaps 3s more CD if nerfs are needed, but reducing boons-strip will delete them again from gameplay.

Expert examination doesn't have synergy with throw mine.The trait directly says that you need to stun or daze your enemy for it to apply. Throw mine does neither, it is a knockback.

Also just tested it myself to make sure there is no bug, but at least in PvE, throw mine does not apply expert examination.

Edit: Tested it in WvW, too. Doesn't apply expert examination, so there is no synergy with throw mine.

Is this another I don't like the way other players use their skills to beat me so they must be nerfed threads?

@kharmin.7683 said:Is this another I don't like the way other players use their skills to beat me so they must be nerfed threads?

Yeah, pretty much. Throw mine isn't bad, and can be used effectively, but it's tricky. The risk-reward is spot on with it, in my book.

@Dediggefedde.4961 said:More people seem to consider taking Throw-Mine nowI was using Throw Mine before people decided it was cool.

Here is the problem with Throw Mine

1. It's invisible to enemy players, both the projectile and the aoe effect. So dodging it is very unlikely because you don't see it coming.
2. Unblockable makes it so aegis can't stop it, and it cannot be reflected so the only thing that you can do to avoid it is dodge.
3. Being that it removes 3 boons, means it has a very high chance of removing stability and you still get knocked back.
4. It is more powerful (utility wise) than holo elite https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Prime_Light_Beam and has the shortest cooldown for a 5 target CC from any class.
5. It starts recharging before using detonate, making it basically an even shorter cooldown.
6. It is the only 5 target skill with unblockable, cc, boon removal with the shortest cooldown.
7. Bonus: Mine Field toolbelt skill that comes with Throw Mine has the potential to remove 25 boons total if 5 targets in 180 radius are hit by the mines, and has 15s cooldown if running tools traitline.

The skill is very powerful, and the cooldown needs to be looked at in the very least.

@"Vegeta.2563" said:Here is the problem with Throw Mine

1. It's invisible to enemy players, both the projectile and the aoe effect. So dodging it is very unlikely because you don't see it coming.
2. Unblockable makes it so aegis can't stop it, and it cannot be reflected so the only thing that you can do to avoid it is dodge.
3. Being that it removes 3 boons, means it has a very high chance of removing stability and you still get knocked back.
4. It is more powerful (utility wise) than holo elite https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Prime_Light_Beam and has the shortest cooldown for a 5 target CC from any class.
5. It starts recharging before using detonate, making it basically an even shorter cooldown.
6. It is the only 5 target skill with unblockable, cc, boon removal with the shortest cooldown.
7. Bonus: Mine Field toolbelt skill that comes with Throw Mine has the potential to remove 25 boons total if 5 targets in 180 radius are hit by the mines, and has 15s cooldown if running tools traitline.

The skill is very powerful, and the cooldown needs to be looked at in the very least.

You are spreading some misinformation here.

1. As far as I know, the knockback applies first, then the boon removal. Meaning that dodging is not the only way to avoid the knockback, stability works against it since it doesn't get stripped before the knockback applies.
2. Mine field does not potentially remove 25 boons, since every mine just removes 1 boon. Notice: not one boon per target hit, just one boon. Mine field just removes 5 boons in total, regardless of you hitting up to 5 enemies with every mine.

It is not as powerful as you are claiming.

@Kodama.6453 said:

@"Vegeta.2563" said:Here is the problem with Throw Mine

1. It's invisible to enemy players, both the projectile and the aoe effect. So dodging it is very unlikely because you don't see it coming.
2. Unblockable makes it so aegis can't stop it, and it cannot be reflected so the only thing that you can do to avoid it is dodge.
3. Being that it removes 3 boons, means it has a very high chance of removing stability and you still get knocked back.
4. It is more powerful (utility wise) than holo elite
   https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Prime_Light_Beam
   and has the shortest cooldown for a 5 target CC from any class.
5. It starts recharging before using detonate, making it basically an even shorter cooldown.
6. It is the only 5 target skill with unblockable, cc, boon removal with the shortest cooldown.
7. Bonus: Mine Field toolbelt skill that comes with Throw Mine has the potential to remove 25 boons total if 5 targets in 180 radius are hit by the mines, and has 15s cooldown if running tools traitline.

The skill is very powerful, and the cooldown needs to be looked at in the very least.

1. As far as I know, the knockback applies first,
   then
   the boon removal. Meaning that dodging is not the only way to avoid the knockback, stability works against it since it doesn't get stripped before the knockback applies.
2. Mine field does
   not
   potentially remove 25 boons, since every mine just removes 1 boon. Notice: not one boon per target hit, just one boon. Mine field just removes 5 boons in total, regardless of you hitting up to 5 enemies with every mine.

I'll have to do some testing later on with a few guildies to see how accurate the knockback & boon removal sequence is.

I was told by several people mine field was 5 mines, each mine removing 1 boon on 5 targets (more testing for later of course).

@Vegeta.2563 said:

@Kodama.6453 said:

@Vegeta.2563 said:Here is the problem with Throw Mine

1. It's invisible to enemy players, both the projectile and the aoe effect. So dodging it is very unlikely because you don't see it coming.
2. Unblockable makes it so aegis can't stop it, and it cannot be reflected so the only thing that you can do to avoid it is dodge.
3. Being that it removes 3 boons, means it has a very high chance of removing stability and you still get knocked back.
4. It is more powerful (utility wise) than holo elite
   https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Prime_Light_Beam
   and has the shortest cooldown for a 5 target CC from any class.
5. It starts recharging before using detonate, making it basically an even shorter cooldown.
6. It is the only 5 target skill with unblockable, cc, boon removal with the shortest cooldown.
7. Bonus: Mine Field toolbelt skill that comes with Throw Mine has the potential to remove 25 boons total if 5 targets in 180 radius are hit by the mines, and has 15s cooldown if running tools traitline.

The skill is very powerful, and the cooldown needs to be looked at in the very least.

1. As far as I know, the knockback applies first,
   then
   the boon removal. Meaning that dodging is not the only way to avoid the knockback, stability works against it since it doesn't get stripped before the knockback applies.
2. Mine field does
   not
   potentially remove 25 boons, since every mine just removes 1 boon. Notice: not one boon per target hit, just one boon. Mine field just removes 5 boons in total, regardless of you hitting up to 5 enemies with every mine.

Let me know your results for mine field. Already tested the knockback and boon removal sequence on the test golem: knockback is always applied first, then the boon removal. If your target has stability, then the mine won't be able to knock them back, even if the boon removal manages to remove the stability.

@"Vegeta.2563" said:Here is the problem with Throw Mine

1. It's invisible to enemy players, both the projectile and the aoe effect. So dodging it is very unlikely because you don't see it coming.
2. Unblockable makes it so aegis can't stop it, and it cannot be reflected so the only thing that you can do to avoid it is dodge.
3. Being that it removes 3 boons, means it has a very high chance of removing stability and you still get knocked back.
4. It is more powerful (utility wise) than holo elite https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Prime_Light_Beam and has the shortest cooldown for a 5 target CC from any class.
5. It starts recharging before using detonate, making it basically an even shorter cooldown.
6. It is the only 5 target skill with unblockable, cc, boon removal with the shortest cooldown.
7. Bonus: Mine Field toolbelt skill that comes with Throw Mine has the potential to remove 25 boons total if 5 targets in 180 radius are hit by the mines, and has 15s cooldown if running tools traitline.

The skill is very powerful, and the cooldown needs to be looked at in the very least.

1. Hm. Something tell me that if there was a giant red circle on the ground, they wouldn't step in it. I assume you also want traps to be visible to enemies?
2. It's one of our few unblockables.
3. It's one of our fewer boon rips.
4. Prime light beam has a larger area of effect, and can burn enemies
5. If you use the skill again before the mine goes off, the mine will be moved to the new location.
6. ... And yet very few people take it because if you are going with explosives you have better options, and the very few gadget builds don't have the space for mine.
7. Minefield removes one boon per mine, and at only 180 radius, it's no good against ranged enemies. Just like the mine, minefield is refreshed when you re-cast the skill.

This skill how it is at the moment is just cancer.... every time that I see an engineer with throw mine a pice of my engineer soul die ...

...so I go and let him play alone. it’s just boring to play, to see, even to smell xD

Or the CD. Is increased or the double mine removed because at the moment make the game unplayable.