[Video] "Cloud" tips.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2TQ5AQzHaoE&feature=youtu.be

A "cloud" formation is when a group of players come together without lumping together. Each player follows their own set of rules instead of following a singular players orders (a commander). This method is much less organized but can be extremely effective with the right players. It makes it significantly more difficult for an organized group to completely eliminate your group and almost impossible for them to focus their damage.

In this video, I will provide some tips on how to contribute and survive in a cloud formation. Pay attention to my position and the enemy zergs position!

I apologize for my horrible editing skills and gameplay but it gets the point across. I plan to create more instructional and trick videos in the future, hopefully with better quality and information. I hope you enjoy even if you don't learn anything new, and thanks for watching!

P.S. I'm not sure if it's processing on Youtube or not but the quality wasn't that bad before I uploaded it.

i wonder if guard gs pull spam and spin may fight against this

hi, a few things.

you say to not run away in a straight line....yet your control scheme does exactly that when you are running away. Would suggest you try rotating your camera so it looks behind you rather than using the "look behind me instantly" button. You are only getting a rear view mirror shot...you want to be able to pan more. And to move while running away and peeking I suggest using the turn left/right keys....you should have those binded. So you simply use your mouse to pan the camera and ur 2 keyboard keys to turn and you have auto run on "R" typically.

Using just strafe right and strafe left and you mouse is very very restrictive to your movement. You want to be able to scope around you 360 degrees with your mouse constantly. You want to be able to target an enemy with the mouse while actively moving and changing directions.

Also suggest that be a main focal point of your cloud formation..... to pretty much always have your auto run key on 92% of the time.

I never really understood what people meant by cloud formation...so i get that now at least.

Cloud formation sacrifices many players to make itself effective. YOu could easily become one of those players focused down and chased. I would only recommend it as viable when zerging/blobbing isn't. Against most dire/trailblazer zergs cloud formation is the best option if you cannot mirror them. When enemy movement is sluggish and hampered by the environment cloud formation is very effective, like inside a keep for example. Competent zergs should be able to completely counter cloud formations is the bottom line. In this video for example, the zerg should have left alot earlier on before it got bogged down and surrounded like that. I guess the main idea is if a zerg is sluggish you can take advantage of this and stay in a fight against it until you simply surround and overwhelm. It also takes alot of zergs alot of effort to make a push, so they don't do it often, and they risk losing their tail when they do it if you cloud formation against them.

@Sovereign.1093 said:i wonder if guard gs pull spam and spin may fight against thisProper clouds got their own stab and stunbreaks, plus should always fight at 1200 range and never have 5 peeps stacked on each other. Gs pulls only work if you can catch them.

That said stuns and CC is always the key to killing stuff, of course. The only question is, did the enemy kill 5 backliners the zerg ball melee commander dont care about while the train steamrolled that one annoying guy with all their pulls?

Fun video! Especially on that build too.

This tactic exploits the tendency of zerg trains to be on "rails" so to speak, and thus are weakest on the edges. Essentially, never give them the straight up engagement they want, and take advantage of their frustrations (exploit when they do try to go for a kill).

Currently zergs are generally focused on fighting against other zergs, and as a result meta zerg builds no longer focus on mobility but rather brush and brush attrition/boon share engagements. This essentially throws a wrench in the equation.

Despite appearances, this does require a fair bit of coordination and individual ability. Essentially each part of the cloud needs to be capable of sensing the opportunity to make a kill without getting killed themselves.

I've been a part of the mag cloud a long time and I was actually in that video. You did a great job covering most of the important points so I'll just offer up this wisdom: a big part of a successful cloud is being aggressive but not suicidal. If you plan to bring any builds to a cloud fight make sure you understand that zergs are safe to bomb (I run full zerk glass mesmer and rarely die) as long as you have an exit strategy. Don't bomb unless you have cooldowns to move away, clear condi, and stun break. While those are on cooldown focus anything on the periphery.

This is pretty old actually. I remember having this discussion with my guild at the time back in 2013. The counter to cloud formations is for a group to stay tighter together in order to benefit from boons and heals and prevent the cloud from picking off squirrels, which is how a cloud/cockroaching tactic is able to start snowballing a fight. Neither group will get many kills doing this if they're both on top of their game, which isn't out of the ordinary of two zergs stalemating. And that's the real problem: players not recognizing this/when it is happening.

@ArchonWing.9480 said:Currently zergs are generally focused on fighting against other zergs, and as a result meta zerg builds no longer focus on mobility but rather brush and brush attrition/boon share engagements. This essentially throws a wrench in the equation.

Honestly, that's entirely a fault of the driver not compensating for what is happening or the group for not executing what the driver is trying to do. The builds are totally fine.

@Cerby.1069 said: -Snip-My keybinds are bad because my motor skills are bad. Have you ever had your arm fall asleep? My left arm is permanently like that because of brain damage when I was young. I play with reversed keybinds so that my left hand has to do as little work as possible. It controls my camera and my weapon swapping. My right hand does everything else.I know I have an awkward way of playing, and I apologize for that, but it can't really be improved upon.

This was a pretty crappy cloud though, honestly. I've seen Maguuma do a much, much better job with this strategy. The only reason I used this as an example is because I don't record very often and this fight lasted for quite some time. I'll have to get some better footage in the future where myself and our PUGs are actually getting more kills and being a little more aggressive. We had plenty of players in this video but a lot of people (myself included) were being far too passive. It would have been much better if I was on something with some ranged options. My Warrior is full berserker so I couldn't afford to take much damage.

Anyway I'm glad you learned something even if you didn't like the video (:

@ArchonWing.9480 said:Fun video! Especially on that build too.

This tactic exploits the tendency of zerg trains to be on "rails" so to speak, and thus are weakest on the edges. Essentially, never give them the straight up engagement they want, and take advantage of their frustrations (exploit when they do try to go for a kill).

Currently zergs are generally focused on fighting against other zergs, and as a result meta zerg builds no longer focus on mobility but rather brush and brush attrition/boon share engagements. This essentially throws a wrench in the equation.

Despite appearances, this does require a fair bit of coordination and individual ability. Essentially each part of the cloud needs to be capable of sensing the opportunity to make a kill without getting killed themselves.

Thank you, you explained it a lot better than I did, lol.

Clouds are tricky to get right because you have to trust that your server mates know what they're doing. A cloud won't do well if people are over extending or can't recognize when to push, pull or bomb. It isn't always the best strategy of course but when you don't have a commander and the enemy zerg is a reasonable size, it can be surprising the kinds of things it can overcome.

Best tactic is run without commander and everybody play like solo roamer.

@Chaba.5410 said:

@ArchonWing.9480 said:Currently zergs are generally focused on fighting against other zergs, and as a result meta zerg builds no longer focus on mobility but rather brush and brush attrition/boon share engagements. This essentially throws a wrench in the equation.

It surely is. But it's common enough to be exploitable, even amongst experienced groups that are fairly skilled. Flexibility is something that can't be easily learned since the second most common response to failure is to blame people for not doing what they were doing harder. The most common is of course, to accuse the other side of hacking. It can certainly be stopped, yes. Anything can, but against your generic map queue, it is still a viable option when needed.

And certainly even when it comes to discussing combat around these parts, you see these rather generalized "one size fit all" truths showing that rigidity is common. So people take advantage of this. It's the reason while multiplayer metas are always more interesting. The existence of a meta always creates the oppurtunity for a counter meta that would have no use in a vacuum, but can only exist because of the current meta.

In any case, it's a good option for players not in a organized group or no tag to manage to fight the enemy, especially if they don't have the raw power to fight straight up. And not having the numbers is a common enough complaint as well.

@ArchonWing.9480 said:

@Chaba.5410 said:

@ArchonWing.9480 said:Currently zergs are generally focused on fighting against other zergs, and as a result meta zerg builds no longer focus on mobility but rather brush and brush attrition/boon share engagements. This essentially throws a wrench in the equation.

I think you've hit the nail on the head here. Cloud formation works very well against unorganized groups (which is the default on EBG even when there is a pin). Against a WvW fighting guild it will be much less successful, as those guilds frown on squirreling. Fighting a cloud requires coordination and patience. The "Tab and Pull" strategy is an effective, although sometimes boring, counter.

It's also interesting that good Pugmanders have very different playstyles than good Guild Commanders. It's pretty rare to find someone who is good at both.