What happened with 1u1d in T2?

Last time I checked (about 4 hours before reset) SBI was losing fair and square, so why is SBI blue and both SBI and YB are still in T2?

SBI and YB tied in the last skirmish. Winner of T3 does not move up then.

A tie happened, which according to wiki results in the following...

"This means a single, third-placing world will move down one tier and a single, first-placing world will move up one tier. If there is a tie for last, no world moves down, which also means no world in the tier below can move up (as there’s no room). Similarly, if there is a tie for first, no world moves up, which prevents the next tier up’s last-place world from moving down."

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Game_updates/2017-06-20

@"Caliburn.1845" said:A tie happened, which according to wiki results in the following...

"This means a single, third-placing world will move down one tier and a single, first-placing world will move up one tier. If there is a tie for last, no world moves down, which also means no world in the tier below can move up (as there’s no room). Similarly, if there is a tie for first, no world moves up, which prevents the next tier up’s last-place world from moving down."

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Game_updates/2017-06-20

I'd prefer it if Anet broke the tie in some manner (flip a coin, etc) instead of T3 becoming stagnant (two servers in the match are the same as last week) because of a tie in T2 last week. T3 being affected to this extent by the results of last week's T2 matchup makes the opposite of sense.

Well in that case, quite the miraculous comeback :)

@Shadowcat.2680 said:instead of T3 becoming stagnant (two servers in the match are the same as last week) because of a tie in T2 last week. T3 being affected to this extent by the results of last week's T2 matchup makes the opposite of sense.

You know, like T1 and T4 every week.Its just one week. Not the end of the world.

~ Kovu

Hmmm I can see how this could easily manipulated; i wasn't aware this could even happen, and I'm sure many others didn't realize it as well.

@HazyDaisy.4107 said:Well in that case, quite the miraculous comeback :)

Final day of the match was excellent. SBI were well behind on Thursday but Friday they burned hard all day. At one point they took YB's T3 EBG keep with a massive golem rush and later on they ninjaed YB's T3 garri. SBI pulled ahead of YB but YB rallied very late and just managed to come back enough to pull even on the final skirmish. Best end to a T2 match for a few months. It gets very wird sometimes, with two or even three teams trying to win the weekend then tank in the week so as not to go to T1, then having to change course when it looks as though they might go to T3 instead. You basically have three teams all trying to come second some weeks. At least this time JQ seemed happy enough to go to T1 - they'll be back in T2 next week, of course.

Apologies for match up thread but it was a really exciting match!

@DeadlySynz.3471 said:Hmmm I can see how this could easily manipulated; i wasn't aware this could even happen, and I'm sure many others didn't realize it as well.

Don't think too much. This is simply population imbalance issue. The difference in coverage and interests of the different coverage somehow balance the ppt up. The issue will resolve itself if the population imbalance is resolved. By now, many should know that the off hours coverage in numerous servers are very unbalanced.

@SkyShroud.2865 said:

@DeadlySynz.3471 said:Hmmm I can see how this could easily manipulated; i wasn't aware this could even happen, and I'm sure many others didn't realize it as well.

Yea, the population imbalance of T1 matches which causes teams in T2 to tank to avoid T1, but not tank enough to get T3. LOL.

@Kovu.7560 said:

@Shadowcat.2680 said:instead of T3 becoming stagnant

(two servers in the match are the same as last week)

because of a tie in T2 last week. T3 being affected to this extent by the results of last week's T2 matchup makes the opposite of sense.

T1 and T4 being essentially the same matchup every week with just one server different in each has nothing to do with any other tier.

Not saying the 1u1d system is great for those tiers either. The last time there was a tie it was in T4, and Anet did make a decision as to who came in third and who came in second. Some consistency would be nice.

@Tiny Doom.4380 said:

@HazyDaisy.4107 said:Well in that case, quite the miraculous comeback :)

I've been sick for the last 4 days, so I can't be blamed for the tone of the thread ;) I call foggy head syndrome because it just didn't seem possible. Anyway, thank you for the explaination.

@Shadowcat.2680 said:

@Kovu.7560 said:

@Shadowcat.2680 said:instead of T3 becoming stagnant

(two servers in the match are the same as last week)

because of a tie in T2 last week. T3 being affected to this extent by the results of last week's T2 matchup makes the opposite of sense.

Nothing to do with? Its Exactly the same thing. The only difference is its only happening once instead of every week.I can't speak to T3, but T2 is great fun this week and 2/3rds of it, like the other three tiers, is the same as last week.

~ Kovu

@Kovu.7560 said:

@Shadowcat.2680 said:

@Kovu.7560 said:

@Shadowcat.2680 said:instead of T3 becoming stagnant

(two servers in the match are the same as last week)

because of a tie in T2 last week. T3 being affected to this extent by the results of last week's T2 matchup makes the opposite of sense.

It's not remotely the same. T1 and T4 having two of the same servers each matchup is a limitation of there being only four tiers and is not an outcome generated by the results of another tier's matchup.

The results of last week's T3 matchup have largely been voided by the tie in T2, and the 1u1d system functioning in this way in the case of a tie is not a logical conclusion to come to.

They're the same in actual effect, not by nature of the system's rules.The rules for determining matchups haven't changed (as far as I know) since they started the 1 up 1 down. This shouldn't be a surprise to anyone.Its like complaining that a team in a sports league gets a higher seed in the playoffs by virtue of some obscure tiebreaker rule coming into play. (Or that 2011-2012 Florida Panthers NHL team that got into the playoffs by virtue of loser points over teams with more actual wins than them. Lol.) You know the rules.

Yeah, it was unexpected. No, its not unfair, and no it doesn't take away from any of the existing matchups. A T4 server swapped with a T3 server, a T1 server swapped with a T2 server -- these matchups are different and aren't nearly as stagnant as the great glicko wall days. This sort of thing is super rare, don't expect it to happen again next week.

~ Kovu

Yet a T3 server did not swap with a T2 server. It absolutely does not matter who won in T3 last week and who came in second. Efforts to win the match were voided and not by anything that happened in the actual tier.

I think just about everyone in T3 was surprised by this result because 1) this rule about servers moving/not moving in the case of a tie was pretty obscure and 2) there was no tie in T3. For anyone in T3 logging into reset, Maguuma was still down in T3 for no apparent reason.

Now that this rule is more widely known because of this instance, your claim of "super rare" is fairly naive. Ties won't be as easy as outright tanking when it comes to match manipulation, but the 3, 4, 5 point system doesn't make the math difficult, particularly the closer it is to the end of a match.

@Shadowcat.2680 said:Yet a T3 server did not swap with a T2 server. It absolutely does not matter who won in T3 last week and who came in second. Efforts to win the match were voided and not by anything that happened in the actual tier.

Look at it this way, SBI and YB tied for second place. It would not have been fair for one of them to move down just because a server won T3 last week.

I'm on TC, and regularly check the other matchups to see who we will face the following week. I actually called the tie taking place Friday morning based on what I saw. I don't get why people are that worried about it. Mag is T3 cause they avoid all fights that aren't 50-70 vs half that number. Sure, you may see a 10-20 man group running around occasionally, but they are also looking for fights vs roamers or half their number. If you hit them with even numbers and don't die in 1 push, their 50 man blob instantly appears so their kdr doesn't drop or they get out of combat and port. They aren't interested in being in higher tiers because, as has been said before, they are just looking for easy loot. It's the reason that every stacked server that isn't BG doesn't want to be in higher tiers...easy loot.

@"Shadowcat.2680" said:this rule about servers moving/not moving in the case of a tie was pretty obscureyour claim of "super rare" is fairly naive.

Wow. Okay. I guess cause and effect isn't thing anymore.I started typing a reply, only to realize I was repeating a lot of what I said in my previous post.*tags Chaba - Have fun with this, I'm done with discussion before it goes in circles further.

@"Ubi.4136" said:I'm on TC, and regularly check the other matchups to see who we will face the following week. I actually called the tie taking place Friday morning based on what I saw. I don't get why people are that worried about it. Mag is T3 cause they avoid all fights that aren't 50-70 vs half that number. Sure, you may see a 10-20 man group running around occasionally, but they are also looking for fights vs roamers or half their number. If you hit them with even numbers and don't die in 1 push, their 50 man blob instantly appears so their kdr doesn't drop or they get out of combat and port. They aren't interested in being in higher tiers because, as has been said before, they are just looking for easy loot. It's the reason that every stacked server that isn't BG doesn't want to be in higher tiers...easy loot.Mag is T3 because two servers in T2 tied. That's, like, the one thing Shadowcat stated that I agree with. In that regard they had no control over the fact that they're still in T3. It wasn't because they did poorly in the PPT game. That said, I agree, nobody wants to fight Maguuma for a lot of the reasons you listed. They're simply not fun to fight.

You know who else isn't fun to fight? Blackgate, and their 80 man queues. Its certainly true they're not "easy loot", but I'd attribute it to most of the 3rd string servers in that tier simply not being able to match those numbers most of the time. (Especially outside of ebg.)

~ Kovu

I always thought -- and it has always appeared that this is the case -- that if 2 servers finished a match with the same points, whoever finished higher in the last skirmish won the tie (whether for first or second), and that determined who moved up or down. I've seen ties several times in T4, and in every case whichever server won the final skirmish was the one that moved up to T3.

@Chaba.5410 said:

@Shadowcat.2680 said:Yet a T3 server did not swap with a T2 server. It absolutely does not matter who won in T3 last week and who came in second. Efforts to win the match were voided and not by anything that happened in the actual tier.

Flipping a coin (or any other tiebreaker) would've been fairer to both tiers.

@Euryon.9248 said:I always thought -- and it has always appeared that this is the case -- that if 2 servers finished a match with the same points, whoever finished higher in the last skirmish won the tie (whether for first or second), and that determined who moved up or down. I've seen ties several times in T4, and in every case whichever server won the final skirmish was the one that moved up to T3.

The 1u1d system does show a clear 2nd and 3rd place when it comes to map selection in the case of a tie. SBI has the blue map this week and YB the red because SBI won the final skirmish in which they tied with YB overall.

Ties should work as you've described overall.

@Kovu.7560 said:

@Shadowcat.2680 said:this rule about servers moving/not moving in the case of a tie was pretty obscureyour claim of "super rare" is fairly naive.

@"Ubi.4136" said:I'm on TC, and regularly check the other matchups to see who we will face the following week. I actually called the tie taking place Friday morning based on what I saw. I don't get why people are that worried about it. Mag is T3 cause they avoid all fights that aren't 50-70 vs half that number. Sure, you may see a 10-20 man group running around occasionally, but they are also looking for fights vs roamers or half their number. If you hit them with even numbers and don't die in 1 push, their 50 man blob instantly appears so their kdr doesn't drop or they get out of combat and port. They aren't interested in being in higher tiers because, as has been said before, they are just looking for easy loot. It's the reason that every stacked server that isn't BG doesn't want to be in higher tiers...easy loot.Mag is T3 because two servers in T2 tied. That's, like, the one thing Shadowcat stated that I agree with. In that regard they had no control over the fact that they're still in T3. It wasn't because they did poorly in the PPT game. That said, I agree, nobody wants to fight Maguuma for a lot of the reasons you listed. They're simply not fun to fight.

Trust me, I'd already tired of trying to explain to you how ties functioning in this way has nothing to do with two servers being the same each week in T1 and T4. 1u1d breaking in the case of a tie instead of a tiebreaker being used only promotes chaos in a system that's already flawed and on its way out.

@Ubi.4136 said:I'm on TC, and regularly check the other matchups to see who we will face the following week. I actually called the tie taking place Friday morning based on what I saw. I don't get why people are that worried about it. Mag is T3 cause they avoid all fights that aren't 50-70 vs half that number. Sure, you may see a 10-20 man group running around occasionally, but they are also looking for fights vs roamers or half their number. If you hit them with even numbers and don't die in 1 push, their 50 man blob instantly appears so their kdr doesn't drop or they get out of combat and port. They aren't interested in being in higher tiers because, as has been said before, they are just looking for easy loot. It's the reason that every stacked server that isn't BG doesn't want to be in higher tiers...easy loot.

Don't be easy loot and they might go away.

@Shadowcat.2680 said:SBI has the blue map this week and YB the red because SBI won the final skirmish in which they tied with YB overall.

SBI did not win the last skirmish. YB took the last skirmish by about 300 points above SBI. I know, I was pushing ppt to force the tie for science.

As to why SBI is blue and YB is red, it could be many factors. I think possibly because SBI had a higher warscore than YB.

@Caliburn.1845 said:

@Shadowcat.2680 said:SBI has the blue map this week and YB the red because SBI won the final skirmish in which they tied with YB overall.

SBI did not win the last skirmish. YB took the last skirmish by about 300 points above SBI. I know, I was pushing ppt to force the tie for science.

My mistake. I assumed SBI took the last skirmish and got blue map as a result because the last tie was between NSP and TC in T4. In that case, NSP seemed to get blue map because they'd won the final skirmish and tied with TC with that win.

Starting to think Anet races small children to decide such things.

@Shadowcat.2680 said:

@Chaba.5410 said:

@Shadowcat.2680 said:Yet a T3 server did not swap with a T2 server. It absolutely does not matter who won in T3 last week and who came in second. Efforts to win the match were voided and not by anything that happened in the actual tier.

How is randomization supposed to be fair? That would actually make players even more upset than the winner of T3 staying in place because 1u1d is predictable system. YB pushed for a tie to stay in T2. Why even do that if the results would be randomized? Let me repeat: YB pushed to stay in T2. You seem to want to deny them that "win" just because two servers are the same as last match in T3.

T3 match isn't stagnant because the winner of T4 last match moved up. Yes, two servers in T3 are the same as last match, just like two servers in T2 are the same as last match. These are not stagnant matches. Stagnant is when all three servers are in the same match for weeks at a time, even whole years at a time back with the old Glicko system.