Renegade F-Skills should cost no Energy

After playing it now for almost a full day in PvE, theres NO flow in play Renegade. The Charrs cost way too much energy to use them AND use weaponskills (who the heck invented this?), and if you have trouble using Weaponskills and Utilties, well, enjoy not using F Skills at ALL.Yes, you barely use them. Bombardement has a low damage output for such a high energy cost.All 3 F skills should cost zero energy, just like Herold for example. Activating Herolds F Skill instantly, so doubleclicking, doesnt use energy. Should be the same with renegade. But as always, Revenant is underwhelmingly bad and unfinished.

Are you suggesting that revs use too much energy HOW DARE YOU. you gain 50 energy when you swap legends using 35 of that instantly on a low damage output ability seems just dandy.

Its correct Fskill cost way TOOO MUCH, i can never use them in pvp, except i go range and save all energy and just spamming 11111111 .... very dissapointing Anet

I think F2 should have 5 energy off to 10 energy, F3 should have 5 more energy off to 30 energy, and F4 should be free if you take the alacrity trait as it's already a major personal or general DPS loss to take it.

the main problem of F skills is that they are useless atm. having 10 stacks of migh, aoe which doesnt hit, and alacrity common

we need breakstun, evade, condi cleanse, protection, resistance , reflects

isnt it easy to change those F skill to something better ?

Out of the all the disappointing features of Renegade, I would say that the f skills are the most disappointing. These are supposed to be the additional mechanics of the elite spec akin to Celestial Avatar Form, Photon Forge, Overloads, Berserk Mode, Reaper Shroud, Continuum Split, etc. Unfortunately these skills are nothing more than two underwhelming buff skills and a low damage aoe skill each costing an absurd amount of energy. They have no theme, they add nothing to game play, they are incredibly undertuned, they just exist without purpose. Reducing the cost down to zero would make them maybe worth using but even then would not fix the problem of them being incredibly boring for what they are supposed to be.

"Maybe worth using" is understatement of the century. F3 does a lot of burning in AOE. F2 is 10 stacks of might for free. F4 would be used on cooldown without thought because alacrity is alacrity.Free would not be balanced. Not sure how "brainlessly spamming them" is adding anything other than a button to press without thinking about anything. There is a sweetspot in terms of energy and we may not be there right now, but it's not like F3 isn't fun to push right now. It is.Effective in a PVE rotation? Likely not, but possible. We'll see when benchmarks are posted.

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@Evolute.6239 said:"Maybe worth using" is understatement of the century. F3 does a lot of burning in AOE. F2 is 10 stacks of might for free. F4 would be used on cooldown without thought because alacrity is alacrity.Free would not be balanced. Not sure how "brainlessly spamming them" is adding anything other than a button to press without thinking about anything. There is a sweetspot in terms of energy and we may not be there right now, but it's not like F3 isn't fun to push right now. It is.Effective in a PVE rotation? Likely not, but possible. We'll see when benchmarks are posted.

The F-skills have cooldowns, they could make the cooldowns much longer and reduce (or remove) the energy cost

@Evolute.6239 said:"Maybe worth using" is understatement of the century. F3 does a lot of burning in AOE. F2 is 10 stacks of might for free. F4 would be used on cooldown without thought because alacrity is alacrity.Free would not be balanced. Not sure how "brainlessly spamming them" is adding anything other than a button to press without thinking about anything. There is a sweetspot in terms of energy and we may not be there right now, but it's not like F3 isn't fun to push right now. It is.Effective in a PVE rotation? Likely not, but possible. We'll see when benchmarks are posted.

You maybe right if the cost no energy, but you need roughly 15 seconds (75/5) without using energy to build up sufficient energy to use all three. Energy much better spent either using weapon skills or utilities.

And when you say "brainlessly spamming them" you do understand they have CDs and cast time, right? Even citdal bombarmant, supposedly a big dps aoe, unyielding anguish seems to outdps it with no CD. It also cost 5 less energy.

I do not like utilities much. SB is poor, but man, the f2-f4 are useless in every situation and every game mode. There is no energy to use them and they are too weak to warrant consideration over utilities of any legend or weapon skills.

It's been working for me. But rather have F2 and F4 skills change to actually be useful.

Right now I almost never use them except F3.

F2 on Kalla is ONLY usefull in PvE when you get out of combat and want to keep up your Favor for the next NPC.F3 has extremly high costs, low damage, and a cooldownF4 has alacrity which should be used in bursts for example, but when you burst you need to waste energy for this skill + time, then rather hit once more with another attack

Overall, you cant use all your skills. You cant burst with Kalla. If you want to burst with Charrs, you cant even spawn the 2 utility charrs after invoking to Kalla since its above 50 Energy. Then you have lifesteal AoE, which is basically useless unless you have high energy and low HP, which is almost NEVER the case.

I tried Kalla in PvE:

• Its basically spawning the 2 dmg charrs, and autoattack.
• Usage of the F-skills? Nope.
• Shortbow? Low damage, extremly low. Mace 3 does more damage than all the skills on Shortbow together, but you would have to waste energy for all skills, mace 3 is just one skill.

In WvW:

• Good luck using Kalla Utilities: They get CCed/Interruped. They die instantly in a blob -> ABSOLUTLY useless.
• F-Skills in WvW? Nah, waste of energy. No damage output and the Favor stacks go up with just one AoE anyway
• Shortbow in WvW? Nah, almost no damage, no support, Cooldowns and Energy wasted for nothing. Also mainly single target dmg.

Overall:If you use Condi-Rev, then Renegade traitline is just a tiny damage boost for you. Yes, only the traitline. Not the legend. Mallyx will be mandatory, the second legendary is depending on the gamemode. Also shortbow wont be used that much, WvW will use staff as 2nd set, PvE will just stay on Mace/AxeSo basically you have one better traitline, thats it.

I think either F2 or F4 should give our Kalla's Fervor stacks in an area to other players traited. Make it compete with the increased stack and duration grandmaster so we can choose to either offer a moderate buff to others or a larger one only to ourselves.

It’s more of a general Revenant issue, the energy management always has been a nightmare, and the issue doesn’t necessarily come from energy cost but more from the lack of proper energy renewal mechanics, unlike other resources in the game like life force or even initiative, and the fact that energy evolves around the 50% threshold is also a ludicrous idea, why can’t we start at 100% and legend swapping renew energy instead of resetting it.

It’s been few months now that the issue of energy has more vocally been raised on this forum and reddit, but so far we have no words of the matter from the devs.

So yeah, you won’t use F abilities as a Renegade because it drains most of your energy, so you end up doing the same thing, as always using your upkeep ability, and then do the rotation with mace/axe until you can legend swap again.

made the same thread on the old forum. Of course I agree. F-skills already have cooldowns, so it makes no sense to give them huge energy costs. They also mess up the rotations on every legend and are currently not worth using.