Mantra of solace's and TOR's healing

Hey guys just wanted to know what you all think of mantra of solace and tome of resolve skills.To be direct, i think their healing is way to low.I know firebrand support can heal for a good ammount if wearing healing power thanks to all the healing sources, but all that healing comes mainly from older traits rather than by those 2 skills.I also think mantra of solace is made that way by design to leave some "usefullness" to TOR skills.

In all honesty i think TOR has serious flaws, leaving you completely vulnerable, unable to attack or preassure your opponent while at the same time not giving you any dissables or ways to mitigate dmg, thats cool as long as the healing is worth it, which is not. It tends to get you killed most of the time because it takes 8 button presses and around 10 more seconds to do what a normal healing skill should do. One of the counterpoints some of you might say is that the healing is shared with your party which make it kind of arguable. Its ment to be a party set of skills, i get it, thats why i dont think this skill is the biggest offender.

Mantra of solace on the other hand has an overall heal 5.5k spamming all 3 charges with a 30 sec cd, making it one of the lowest healing skills in the game with one of the largest cd if all charges are expended, in a normal scenario you would never want to spend the third charge, leaving you with just 3k active healing and 2 aegis.

If we can all agree in something is that firebrand has some issues in the durability department and ive come to belive its mainly due to mantra of solace.I think its base healing should be upped a bit to compensate when you are not around your party and when you are not running healing gear.Maybe changing it to 2.5 k healing x charge might ease that aspect of its durability.

Im posting this because i have seen some posts about TOR being lackluster but never seen a mantra of solace thread, who knows, maybe its just me.

What do you guys think?

Cheers all!

I cannot possibly understand why they though putting all the healing on the autoattack was a good idea. It makes the healing slow, especially if you have to first cast skill 5, and it feels bad to spam a single button.

What they need to do is reduce the healing on skill 1, make skill 4 a pulsing heal, and make skill 2 heal without the need for cleansing conditions.

Mantra of Solace is like a bad Shelter, with the only benefit being that you can use it in portions and share some of the blocks with allies. In practice, it exists only to abuse on-heal procs.

I also blows my mind how firebrand has no access to light auras.

My issue with the Tome of Resolve is that it has absolutely no damage capabilities with the weapon skills. Eles have damage & chill capabilities in their water attunement and pump out more healing on top of still being able to DPS and get loot bags. And on top of that, Firebrands literally have to camp in each tome and burn all the pages up before moving on to the next tome, as the cooldowns on the tomes make it so that you can't swap between them as often as an Ele can swap between attunements. They've literally made firebrand a clunkier version of an elementalist...both hit F1 for fire damage, both hit F2 for healing waters, etc.

@Sylvyn.4750 said:My issue with the Tome of Resolve is that it has absolutely no damage capabilities with the weapon skills. Eles have damage & chill capabilities in their water attunement and pump out more healing on top of still being able to DPS and get loot bags. And on top of that, Firebrands literally have to camp in each tome and burn all the pages up before moving on to the next tome, as the cooldowns on the tomes make it so that you can't swap between them as often as an Ele can swap between attunements. They've literally made firebrand a clunkier version of an elementalist...both hit F1 for fire damage, both hit F2 for healing waters, etc.

Ele's really don't DPS in water -- pick any weapon and you'll find the DPS is horrid. Staff and D/Wh are two good healing sets and neither offer easy/quick cleave for tagging. So I wouldn't go using ele as an example of what healing should be.

I do think Tomes should be like Engineer Kits so you can switch in and out to use skills in an "on-need" basis. I posted a topic in Guardian forums asking for exactly that: https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/4749/make-tomes-like-engineer-kits

That idea didn't receive much support.

I think even tho it may look attractive at first sight, in general, Firebrand is not good for healing. Another bad thing is all the new heals scale terribly with healing power. The heal with 0 or 1200 healing power is still almost the same. The mantra is weak, the weak heal + aegis don't mean much, maybe in some 1v1 pvp scenaro where person would use the aegis, or something in raids where it could block some strong attack, dunno I don't play that.

If you activate F2, all the heals there are pretty weak. The fact that you have to spam 1 is also meh cause you do only that. You do not hurt the enemies in any way, you only provide weak healing that is outDPSed by the attacker anyway. I don't see all that much use of it. The only major thing there is that 4 is a water field, so guard can now cast own water field and with fast finger you can self-blast it.

@Miyafuji.1340 said:I think even tho it may look attractive at first sight, in general, Firebrand is not good for healing. Another bad thing is all the new heals scale terribly with healing power. The heal with 0 or 1200 healing power is still almost the same. The mantra is weak, the weak heal + aegis don't mean much, maybe in some 1v1 pvp scenaro where person would use the aegis, or something in raids where it could block some strong attack, dunno I don't play that.

Actually skills in Resolution scale better on healing power than the ones on Celestial Avatar, same for the base numbers they’re higher. There are also better increase in healing output on Guardian than on both Revenant and Ranger, with Force of Will and Invigorated Bulwark (traits) and Eternal Oasis (skill). The healing power scaling is actually pretty good, and the base numbers shouldn’t be high because Resolution shouldn’t be used as a “free” second heal by dps builds.

It doesn’t mean however that Resolution doesn’t have issues, and even while ignoring the traits Celestial Avatar is better than Resolution, because:• Celestial Avatar has a blast finisher to combo with its water field, Resolution has a water field but no blast finisher, and therefore you have to rely on your teammates’ blast finishers to be a better healer, which is ludicrous.• Celestial Avatar has a 10s. cooldown while Resolution has 40s. (34s. with Virtue).• Celestial Avatar has no cast time, Resolution has a ¼ cast time.• While not being the only condition remover of Resolution, Radiant Recovery has a 1s. cast time, which is way too high for a condition remover.

Azure Sun should be a blast finisher, which would allow Firebrand to burst heal quickly, the baseline cooldown should be 35s. (30s. with Virtue), Resolution (and eventually the two other tomes) shouldn’t have a cast time, Radiant Recovery should have a cast time of ¾.

If you activate F2, all the heals there are pretty weak. The fact that you have to spam 1 is also meh cause you do only that. You do not hurt the enemies in any way, you only provide weak healing that is outDPSed by the attacker anyway. I don't see all that much use of it.

Resolution doesn’t have to hurt enemies, Water is pretty weak in that regard as is Celestial Avatar, though I agree that Resolution lacks in crowd control options, compared to other heal heavy weapon skills acquired through profession mechanics. Celestial Avatar has access to one daze and slow/immobilization/cripple, and Water has chill and attacks, and nothing in Resolution makes up for that lack of crowd control, sure the healing and cleansing is better but not significantly better.

Shining River should probably cripple and Eternal Oasis should probably slow, blind and retaliation are other options to explore.

The only major thing there is that 4 is a water field, so guard can now cast own water field and with fast finger you can self-blast it.

How would you accomplish that, Guardian is amongst the class with the lowest number of blast finishers, you have Mighty Blow (hammer) and Shield of Wrath (focus), in the first case you have to leave Resolution quickly, probably wasting pages, and then blast, in the second case you have to time correctly the end of Shield of Wrath to blast on the water field, and Shield of Wrath doesn’t have to be broken by your enemies. Hammer of Wisdom is a blast finisher, but it also takes a utility slot when better skills could be used.

Firebrand healing capabilities have serious issues, alongside its damage support capabilities, which makes support build inefficient to play, at least in PvE, and in a lesser extend in sPvP.

I think mantra of solace is being underestimated here. Initial charges are 1.5k. With pure ofheart (I'm assuming 1k healing power), that's 3k and with smiter's boon that's 2k more, making it 5k total. 5k on just the initial charge. if you count the second and last charge: 5k+3k+4.5k = 12.5k heal. Making it our strongest heal. Recharge between mantras is 12 seconds but you can drop that to 9 if you trait weighty terms.

Currently it's my preferred heal since it heals the most out of all the heals if i need it to but i can also choose to stagger its use rather than using it all up and having nothing to protect myself like all the other heals. If you wait long enough your smiter's boon will also be back up for another heal burst.

For healing others i still prefer RTL, and for myself shelter - the damage prevention of shelter is worth alot of healing.

ToR I agree needs to have a blast finisher, and I'd like to see number one have a slightly higher heal, but also a 5 target enemy debuff with a minor amount of damage so I can tag enemies I'd prefer chill or slow. I'd like to see the same thing done with ToC and have it be cripple and/or weakness.

I love the way mantras work, and tomes aren't a problem to me. I always have mantras up, and only use the the third charge in emergency situations. As far as tomes go, being DPS, I only need the healing tome if my mantra is on CD, but spamming away at a heal 8 times does not bother me one bit. Say what you will about the playstyle, I love being able to actually heal myself through groups of enemies that would normally send me miles away to the closest WP, dead

@Alchimist.4738 said:Actually skills in Resolution scale better on healing power than the ones on Celestial Avatar, same for the base numbers they’re higher. There are also better increase in healing output on Guardian than on both Revenant and Ranger, with Force of Will and Invigorated Bulwark (traits) and Eternal Oasis (skill).

What are you talking about? Have you actually seen the numbers? Tome of Resolve doesn't have a single skill with 1.0 or more healing scaling, Celestial Avatar has one with 1.8 and another with 2.5 total. Compare Shining River to Lunar Impact. Same cast time, same radius, but Lunar Impact has 1200 range, dazes, is a blast finisher and heals for 1620 (1.8) to River's 1230 (0.79).

The realistic rotation of ToR is 5, 4, and then spamming 1. With 5 pages, that's 4549. Celestial Avatar using only Rejuvenating Tides and Lunar Impact is 4870. And that's the full Tome rotation compared to only 2 skills from CA, druid can use more skills after that.

The total healing scaling for Tome (with the inclusion of Eternal Oasis' 33%) is slightly higher at 4.88, compared to CA's 4.3, but as I said, we are talking about 2 skills, even adding 1 auto from CA brings the total scaling to 4.97.

It's true that Ranger lacks % heal modifiers, but they still get 20% from Natural Mender. And don't even try to compare Guardian with what Revenant gets. They have five different traits that grant % healing, that can be combined for over +100% healing.

The healing power scaling is actually pretty good, and the base numbers shouldn’t be high because Resolution shouldn’t be used as a “free” second heal by dps builds.

That's exactly how Virtue of Resolve and Wings of Resolve are used by dps builds, so I don't know where this "shouldn't" comes from. And it's not really a free heal when all our heals are kept at higher cooldown because of that, when all other classes have at least 1 healing option with 20s or less cooldown.

• Celestial Avatar has a blast finisher to combo with its water field, Resolution has a water field but no blast finisher, and therefore you have to rely on your teammates’ blast finishers to be a better healer, which is ludicrous.

While CA has both a water field and a blast finisher, they actually can't combine them, the water field is only accessible while Rejuvenating Tides is casting. Of course, they still get access to more water fields and blast finishers, with their staff conveniently having both, so guardian should absolutely be able to blast the one water field we get access to in-tome.

• Celestial Avatar has no cast time, Resolution has a ¼ cast time.

Tome has ½ cast time, I wish it was ¼.

They just need to rework staff into a full support weapon and call it a day. Firebrand has healing capabilities but lack a true healing weapon. Mace/shield, focus can get the job done in some scenarios but will never be on the same level as tempest/ druid in terms of support and healing. Staff needs to have a dedicated heal attached to the auto attack.

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/170997#Comment_170997

Try doing some Altruistic healing from boon application guys and girls. I know the heal scaling still needs work, but I do is have high toughness the low to moderate healing power and apply lots of boons. I survive but do little damage. But great team support and often I am the last one standing. To make clean get away :) From Cave Rock and Bluevoltron42.

@RabbitUp.8294 said:I cannot possibly understand why they though putting all the healing on the autoattack was a good idea. It makes the healing slow, especially if you have to first cast skill 5, and it feels bad to spam a single button.

What they need to do is reduce the healing on skill 1, make skill 4 a pulsing heal, and make skill 2 heal without the need for cleansing conditions.

Mantra of Solace is like a bad Shelter, with the only benefit being that you can use it in portions and share some of the blocks with allies. In practice, it exists only to abuse on-heal procs.

I also blows my mind how firebrand has no access to light auras.

Agree with everything in your post except MoS. It is imo the best heal we have. Valor+Honor+rune of the water+1k healing power+traited for quickness duration=great first charge. If you build your FB for dps only and not support its pure shiat but its more of a build issue than the heal being bad.

With that said i think it needs to affect allies as well, in order to improve FB healing capabilities.

@Cave Rock.4869 said:Try doing some Altruistic healing from boon application guys and girls. I know the heal scaling still needs work, but I do is have high toughness the low to moderate healing power and apply lots of boons. I survive but do little damage. But great team support and often I am the last one standing. To make clean get away :) From Cave Rock and Bluevoltron42.

Its not as good as a shout guardian when it comes to AH but the times you manage to position correctly its a monster combined with hammer.