This is not going to work ..... unless

So the real reason why Runes and Sigils now break unless we use a Black Lion Salvage Kit is because ANET wants us to use Upgrade Extractors.The fact they lowered the price is proof of that as previously it was compeletly unreasonable - 5000 gems for 25? Why bother when it's half the price of the Endless Upgrade Extractor.Thus the price was lowered, but it's still no use. First of with the price of 1500 gems per 25 it still only is an average 150 Upgrade Extractors for the same price as the Endless Upgrade Extractor. Now that may seem a lot at first, but if you extract runes then that is 6 per a full armour set, which gives only 25 rune swaps for a full set.But the real problem is that there are no upgrades really worth extracting, the most expensive Sigils (except Sigil of Karka Slaying) cost around 13g while each extractor costs an average 19g with current gold/gem exchange ratio. So it would only be worth buying the Upgrade Extractor when you have a two-handed weapon containing 2 Sigils that cost above 10g each.Runes are also out as the most expensive Runes are around 10g in price, and obviously we won't be using them to extract Infusions as we can get Infusion Extraction Devices for those.

But I said unless in the title right? Yes I did and it may bring shivers down your spine or make you super hyped if I'm right.So what am I talking about? Well this new ugrade crafting system got me thinking and I think I know what ANET it planning to do.You see we still can get Runes and Sigils as drops only we need a Black Lion Salvage Kit to get it out of the gear it drops with, and we all get those from time to time, but even if not we can still just sell the item it's in along with it. In other words, buying the upgrade we need is still the prefered option instead of crafting it for a lot of people.However, what if ANET decides to introduce Ascended level Runes and Sigils? I mean the writing is on the wall, this new crafting system seems to be a preparation for something big.So yeah how much would Ascended upgrades cost to make? like 30-40g per Rune would be my guess. That would obviously make the Extraction Devices worth buying then, and probably make the Endless Upgrade Extractor go up to like 10000g on TP.However, one thing remaining is the maximum Rune effect, what I mean is minor runes of the same kind have stacking effects up to 2, major up to 4 and superior up to 6.So how would it work with Ascended Runes? Well probably they will just have stacking effects up to 6 as well, unless maybe we go up to 7 if we could put a 7th rune inside Back Items.Back Items are technically armour pieces too, so it would make sense. Of course I know that Exotic Back Items used to have upgrade slots, while Ascended had them removed and instead their stats were increased to account for the boosts from the gemstones you could put in them.However this could be solved by simply making the Ascended Runes only work with Ascended/Legendary Armour, Back Items and Weapons, While Exotic and lower quality gear would not be able to accept them.

So what do others think, have I figured out ANET's intentions or am I overthinking the new upgrade system?

I think you're overthinking the new upgrade system. First of all, I don't think the bulk of the population changes builds that frequently. They get their gear, get some cheapish runes and away they go. It's what I do for most of my characters, though not necessarily my mains. A don't even think most of the population changes builds quickly after meta changes, because I don't believe most of the population uses metas or knows about sites like metabattle.com. They just sort of buy what looks good and is affordable.

The people who do look up builds, like me, have so many salvage kits hanging out in inventory, it'll be ages before I'm affected at all. Those who buy black lion keys, or farm them every week probably have both extractors and black lion kits as well.

I'm not saying it can't happen, I'm just saying the changes won't affect most of the population. I certainly don't hear a lot of complaints about salvaging in my guild of casuals for example. Most of them don't even realize things have changed probably.

Massively overthinking, plus there are plenty of threads on this already. If you want devs to read the ideas, more threads is the worst way forward, especially with titles utterly unrelated to the subject

I'm not following. If you need a BLSK, use one. I have a ton of them. I have one on every character, and I have a LOT of characters. You have a chance at one ever single week, as long as you play daily. Just only use them when you mean to get a rune/sigil.

The chance of getting a blk are pretty abysmal now. Sure there are people that have more than they know what to do with, but there are more people that don't and those are the people getting shafted. (people talk about how they have so many, from a time when they were easier to get, now they aren't)It was clear what their intent was when the only way to retain the upgrade was with a gem store item.

Meh.... I have ascended stuff mostly, and I simply lose my runes/sigils when I make a change. Whatever. You log on for like 20 minutes and recieve 2g for doing dailies. Game rewards you for having a pulse. Extractors would have to be 1/10 the price they are now before I'd consider buying them. And I refuse to pay more than a few gold for a rune. Do some of my characters still use exotics? Yea. I don't care about the runes. I just get them cheaply or with map currency. If they go up to ascended, I'll be getting "real" runes anyways. I said that about fractals a few years ago though I never cared that much and am still using exotic zerker gear + scholar runes for the past few years on multiple toons. So what is the meta now? Oh, exactly the same thing lel.

I mean, honestly, are you people really just constantly salvaging your exotics? Might as well wait a bit and just make some ascended at that rate.... Maybe not constantly change sets if you can't afford it? I mean, why do you have to care so much about being meta or whatever? I mean let's put it this way-- if you cared so much about the last few points of efficiency, you wouldn't be in exotics. I mean honestly, what proportion of players do high fractals and raids that need that level of optimization? And what proportion of those players can't actually gear themselves?

@Arsenic Touch.7960 said:The chance of getting a blk are pretty abysmal now. Sure there are people that have more than they know what to do with, but there are more people that don't and those are the people getting shafted. (people talk about how they have so many, from a time when they were easier to get, now they aren't)It was clear what their intent was when the only way to retain the upgrade was with a gem store item.

Pretty much agree with this. My stockpile(of 8 BLKs) ran out a few weeks ago. Ended up using my statuettes to buy four just in case i get a sigil worth a decent amount of gold.

What has changed regarding the chance of obtaining a Black Lion Salvage Kit from 2-3 months ago?I haven't noticed any difference.

You can take runes and sigils out with the black lion salvage kit which you get frequently when doing fractals + login reward also you can gain some when you did the achievement exotic hunter by choosing yellow rune from time to time which you by with karma.

What I'm not a fan of is the increased cost and how one popular rune / sigil can suck the supply dry for the others also this scale not well and the whole buying karma equip and using an endless extractor is really boom this should really not work this way.