Does Kalla Elite give more dps gain than Druid in fractals? — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Does Kalla Elite give more dps gain than Druid in fractals?

Hello,
So I gear my revenant in full Harrier Gear, which gives Soulcleave Summit 418ish damage per tick with no icd. Since fractals only have five targets, meaning ren might generation is on par with GotL Druid, and spotter is replaced by AP, does Kalla elite give more bonus dmg than glyph of empowerment/spirits? Is renegade able to effectively replace Druid now with no ill affects + granting alacrity?

Comments

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭

    No fury.

    It replaces druid in a firebrand+renegade comp. Unless you get someone else to bring fury.

  • phs.6089phs.6089 Member ✭✭✭✭

    In fractals where everyone suppose to have hight crit chance https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Assassin's_Presence works very well

    "There is always a lighthouse, there's always a man, there's always a city."

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @phs.6089 said:
    In fractals where everyone suppose to have hight crit chance https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Assassin's_Presence works very well

    True and if one considers that probably a majority of players are not running super optimized builds for fractals (aka using their raid builds which are now increased by fractal stat buffs), many might be close to over-stacking crit anyway.

  • Zenith.7301Zenith.7301 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 29, 2018

    Druid is a flat out inferior healer to both support renegade and even Harrier Firebrand.

    People just take it out of habit. And I say this as a druid main who loves druids and wants to see their healing and support utility improved given the trajectory Anet is taking with nerfing their offensive support.

    Druid does significantly less damage than both Firebrand and Renegade, offers way worse healing and has little access to stability (only spirit elite) or aegis, which are huge in fractals.

    Druid should honestly be a much stronger support in healing and defensive measures if it's going to keep its abysmal damage.

    In fact, I think the ultimate carry comp in fractals is not even with a renegade, but taking both a chrono and a Quickbrand to replace the druid which affords a metric ton of aegis and stability for the group on top of Firebrand's ability to stack prot, might, and fury on top while doing higher DPS than druid.

    People don't understand how much effective DPS stability and aegis give to the weavers and guardians as they are both classes that are meta DPS and suffer a ton from interruptions to their rotation.

  • Nephalem.8921Nephalem.8921 Member ✭✭✭

    @Zenith.7301 said:
    Druid is a flat out inferior healer to both support renegade and even Harrier Firebrand.

    People just take it out of habit. And I say this as a druid main who loves druids and wants to see their healing and support utility improved given the trajectory Anet is taking with nerfing their offensive support.

    Druid does significantly less damage than both Firebrand and Renegade, offers way worse healing and has little access to stability (only spirit elite) or aegis, which are huge in fractals.

    Druid should honestly be a much stronger support in healing and defensive measures if it's going to keep its abysmal damage.

    In fact, I think the ultimate carry comp in fractals is not even with a renegade, but taking both a chrono and a Quickbrand to replace the druid which affords a metric ton of aegis and stability for the group on top of Firebrand's ability to stack prot, might, and fury on top while doing higher DPS than druid.

    People don't understand how much effective DPS stability and aegis give to the weavers and guardians as they are both classes that are meta DPS and suffer a ton from interruptions to their rotation.

    Ultimate carry comp is probably heal fb + dps alac rene. Kalla lifesteal has no interal cooldown. Sword Weaver synergizes really good with it.
    Or dps fb + heal ren. But you will suffer in fractals where instant stealth or blink portals are needed like underground facility.

    Chrono boon support got nerfed a bit too much in 5 player content. All it has now are basically blink portals and instant stealth. Outclassed by other professions hard in other areas. 10 target SOI is just kitten.

  • Zhaid Zhem.6508Zhaid Zhem.6508 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 31, 2018

    DPS/support Renegade needs a lot of boon duration to bring perma alacrity, even with the singularity.
    Today there is no optimal "hybrid" gear, only Commander (or harrier/minstrel, but you're healer). The Diviner’s gear releases will help with that, as Renegade also get +33% free precision.

    In a 1 Healer +1 support comp Healer Ren + Viper or Zerk FB will be much profitable in terms of "potential DPS", rather than the contrary; because the DPS gain of FB is higher and is worth the _invocation _ Spec and soulcleave uptime;
    Zerk or Viper FB ? The difference is if you're a speedrunner or a pug. Zerk because : power burst (Bane signet: 216 power shared to others), viper because easier rotation, more constant DPS. You don't necessarily need Boon duration in fractals (you don't need rune of firebrand), with perma alacrity and pre-buff on singularity.
    In other hand, Harrier FB brings more healing, more boons more stab, more easily; and Devastation/Invocation Renegade is more flexible. But find a Ren who will set up with Commander or Diviner Gear ... as it will certainly be the only heavy class build with this gear....
    Or 2 healers, it's a big DPS loss, but in a way it won't change of chrono/druid, and everybody will be >90% life for scholat runes or traits.

    Other solutions are :
    DPS chrono + Harrier FB : you get sufficiant alacrity in short fight (if chrono builds on it) + you keep all the chrono utilities ; but you need your war to cap the 25 mights.
    Harrier/minstrel Chrono + Viper/zerk FB ; same.
    Chrono + Druid..

  • Zhaid Zhem.6508Zhaid Zhem.6508 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 31, 2018

    About the first question.
    If we exclude Alacrity as a powerbuff; hard to say. AP is +4~5% DMG, if you have 100% precision (Which is never the case, because gear 1 boot and 1 ring assassin, 6 precision infusion etc.... it's boring.). Soulcleave is +1~5k DPS, depends of skills, quickness..., it's pretty huge if you can maintain it a long time or during burst (axe soulbeast, sword weaver, DH ... easily >5 tick per sec). On powerbuff this is not bad, not at all.
    This is hard to compare, they don't have the same roles.

  • Henry.5713Henry.5713 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 3, 2019

    The 10% from Glyth of Empowerment (plus the 5% from Frost Spirit) beats pretty much any other modifier in the CMs. There is simply too much synergy between all of the Breakbars, setting up burst and a well timed Glyth of Empowerment. You phase most targets by the time the Glyth runs out or you get to cast it twice in some cases. That is if you want to strictly talk about the modifiers.
    My personal preference is Harrier FB(or more supportive)+Hybrid Chrono as that duo easily covers about everything you'd ever need out of your supports.

    Progress isn't made by early risers. It's made by lazy men trying to find easier ways to do something. ~ Robert Heinlein

  • @Henry.5713 said:
    The 10% from Glyth of Empowerment (plus the 5% from Frost Spirit) beats pretty much any other modifier in the CMs.

    Have the Soulbeast bring the frost spirit?
    You get Stance Share and with FB+ Ren you get 216 power due to the guardian signet share, Kalla Elite and AP. Thats way better than one GoE. Warrior doesnt have to go spellbreaker due to free malyx when needed.
    Ren + FB is in a really good spot imo and will only get better once we have diviner stats.

  • Henry.5713Henry.5713 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @RaidsAreEasyAF.8652 said:

    @Henry.5713 said:
    The 10% from Glyth of Empowerment (plus the 5% from Frost Spirit) beats pretty much any other modifier in the CMs.


    Have the Soulbeast bring the frost spirit?
    You get Stance Share and with FB+ Ren you get 216 power due to the guardian signet share, Kalla Elite and AP. Thats way better than one GoE. Warrior doesnt have to go spellbreaker due to free malyx when needed.
    Ren + FB is in a really good spot imo and will only get better once we have diviner stats.

    Pretty much why I left Frost Spirit in brackets, as there is indeed the option to have a Soulbeast. Not going to argue against the synergies between certain builds in combination with eachother. It was simply a comparison of modifiers.
    I'd still take a FB/Chrono over FB/Renegade having tried both for a bit. There is Shattered Concentration on Chrono to free up the warrior similar to Malyx and I would, of course, use a Soulbeast as well given that option.

    Progress isn't made by early risers. It's made by lazy men trying to find easier ways to do something. ~ Robert Heinlein

  • @Henry.5713 said:
    Pretty much why I left Frost Spirit in brackets, as there is indeed the option to have a Soulbeast. Not going to argue against the synergies between certain builds in >combination with eachother. It was simply a comparison of modifiers.
    I'd still take a FB/Chrono over FB/Renegade having tried both for a bit. There is Shattered Concentration on Chrono to free up the warrior similar to Malyx and I would, of >course, use a Soulbeast as well given that option.

    What exactily does FB/Chrono offer, that FB/Renegade cant?

  • Henry.5713Henry.5713 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @RaidsAreEasyAF.8652 said:

    @Henry.5713 said:
    Pretty much why I left Frost Spirit in brackets, as there is indeed the option to have a Soulbeast. Not going to argue against the synergies between certain builds in >combination with eachother. It was simply a comparison of modifiers.
    I'd still take a FB/Chrono over FB/Renegade having tried both for a bit. There is Shattered Concentration on Chrono to free up the warrior similar to Malyx and I would, of >course, use a Soulbeast as well given that option.

    What exactily does FB/Chrono offer, that FB/Renegade cant?

    Mostly prolonged FB boons through Signet of Inspiritation which, I find, leads to a better uptime upon unlucky mechanics and additional Stability and Aegises. It kind of depends on what type of Renegade and Chronomancer builds we are talking about here.

    Progress isn't made by early risers. It's made by lazy men trying to find easier ways to do something. ~ Robert Heinlein

  • @Henry.5713 said:
    Mostly prolonged FB boons through Signet of Inspiritation which, I find, leads to a better uptime upon unlucky mechanics and additional Stability and Aegises.

    So basically boons that firebrand can keep up with almost no boon duration anyway? Just run a little more boon duration and call it a day. Firebrand takes care of stability and aegis anyway.

  • Henry.5713Henry.5713 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @RaidsAreEasyAF.8652 said:

    @Henry.5713 said:
    Mostly prolonged FB boons through Signet of Inspiritation which, I find, leads to a better uptime upon unlucky mechanics and additional Stability and Aegises.

    So basically boons that firebrand can keep up with almost no boon duration anyway? Just run a little more boon duration and call it a day. Firebrand takes care of stability and aegis anyway.

    I wasn't talking about Quickness as the boon you need to prolong though SoI. Nor would you be running the same copy of the build you play in combination with your usual Renegade. Again, it depends on what type of FB we are talking about here. The build changes as you are needed to provide more boons on FB if you run with a Chrono instead of a Renegade. You are still able to do so far more efficiently and more reliably against any stack of annoying instabilities or unlucky mechancis. Assuming we are going for a healing FB here as that is what people talked about above when they kept brining up FB/Renegade.
    If we do not and this is about the best set-up for speedclearing purposes then there is no reason to even continue as I never said it was.

    Progress isn't made by early risers. It's made by lazy men trying to find easier ways to do something. ~ Robert Heinlein

  • Ppl still use druid wow i am amazed

  • Vinceman.4572Vinceman.4572 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 3, 2019

    @Laila Lightness.8742 said:
    Ppl still use druid wow i am amazed

    Of course, druid still is enough for competent but non-speed run groups. If you run the full dps strat including CMs you didn't need a healer anyways in the last months and if you just want to have a good t4 cleaning with maybe recs as well there's no need to run a completely safe strat with mass healing output. So, therefore druid is enough + still has offensive buffs. It is also enough for CM runs as I have seen in my latest runs if I do CMs.

    The most important thing:
    It's good to have options and not kill one spec for another just because the one was the gold standard before and the other was neglected.
    People that think certain classes or build should be "banned" from the game or destroyed and even make fun out of it are the most toxic and childish ones. Also, they are not the ones Anet should ever listen to!

  • Laila Lightness.8742Laila Lightness.8742 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 3, 2019

    @Vinceman.4572 said:

    @Laila Lightness.8742 said:
    Ppl still use druid wow i am amazed

    Of course, druid still is enough for competent but non-speed run groups. If you run the full dps strat including CMs you didn't need a healer anyways in the last months and if you just want to have a good t4 cleaning with maybe recs as well there's no need to run a completely safe strat with mass healing output. So, therefore druid is enough + still has offensive buffs. It is also enough for CM runs as I have seen in my latest runs if I do CMs.

    The most important thing:
    It's good to have options and not kill one spec for another just because the one was the gold standard before and the other was neglected.
    People that think certain classes or build should be "banned" from the game or destroyed and even make fun out of it are the most toxic and childish ones. Also, they are not the ones Anet should ever listen to!

    Isnt tempest healer or core ele healer or any fb or renegade even dpa geared better than druid in fact. One spec will always be better as a healer dudu is not good since its healing output is low compared to every class whos not chrono . And sadly that group of complainers are the loudest most visible in feedbacks and that will hardly change but i accept all fun specs will eventually be nerfed to encourage a new combo setting

  • Vinceman.4572Vinceman.4572 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Laila Lightness.8742 said:

    @Vinceman.4572 said:

    @Laila Lightness.8742 said:
    Ppl still use druid wow i am amazed

    Of course, druid still is enough for competent but non-speed run groups. If you run the full dps strat including CMs you didn't need a healer anyways in the last months and if you just want to have a good t4 cleaning with maybe recs as well there's no need to run a completely safe strat with mass healing output. So, therefore druid is enough + still has offensive buffs. It is also enough for CM runs as I have seen in my latest runs if I do CMs.

    The most important thing:
    It's good to have options and not kill one spec for another just because the one was the gold standard before and the other was neglected.
    People that think certain classes or build should be "banned" from the game or destroyed and even make fun out of it are the most toxic and childish ones. Also, they are not the ones Anet should ever listen to!

    Isnt tempest healer or core ele healer or any fb or renegade even dpa geared better than druid in fact. One spec will always be better as a healer dudu is not good since its healing output is low compared to every class whos not chrono . And sadly that group of complainers are the loudest most visible in feedbacks and that will hardly change but i accept all fun specs will eventually be nerfed to encourage a new combo setting

    You were one of the loudest who would have been happy about chrono and druid getting deleted from the content. That's ridiculous & childish.
    If you're insisting so hard on a better healer I would suggest getting gud at the game since massive heals are not needed in any of the pve content.

  • Catchyfx.5768Catchyfx.5768 Member ✭✭✭

    @Vinceman.4572 said:

    @Laila Lightness.8742 said:

    @Vinceman.4572 said:

    @Laila Lightness.8742 said:
    Ppl still use druid wow i am amazed

    Of course, druid still is enough for competent but non-speed run groups. If you run the full dps strat including CMs you didn't need a healer anyways in the last months and if you just want to have a good t4 cleaning with maybe recs as well there's no need to run a completely safe strat with mass healing output. So, therefore druid is enough + still has offensive buffs. It is also enough for CM runs as I have seen in my latest runs if I do CMs.

    The most important thing:
    It's good to have options and not kill one spec for another just because the one was the gold standard before and the other was neglected.
    People that think certain classes or build should be "banned" from the game or destroyed and even make fun out of it are the most toxic and childish ones. Also, they are not the ones Anet should ever listen to!

    Isnt tempest healer or core ele healer or any fb or renegade even dpa geared better than druid in fact. One spec will always be better as a healer dudu is not good since its healing output is low compared to every class whos not chrono . And sadly that group of complainers are the loudest most visible in feedbacks and that will hardly change but i accept all fun specs will eventually be nerfed to encourage a new combo setting

    You were one of the loudest who would have been happy about chrono and druid getting deleted from the content. That's ridiculous & childish.
    If you're insisting so hard on a better healer I would suggest getting gud at the game since massive heals are not needed in any of the pve content.

    Out of topic:even after major nerfs still much better then anything else.

    Jokaurene

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 8, 2019

    @Catchyfx.5768 said:

    @Vinceman.4572 said:

    @Laila Lightness.8742 said:

    @Vinceman.4572 said:

    @Laila Lightness.8742 said:
    Ppl still use druid wow i am amazed

    Of course, druid still is enough for competent but non-speed run groups. If you run the full dps strat including CMs you didn't need a healer anyways in the last months and if you just want to have a good t4 cleaning with maybe recs as well there's no need to run a completely safe strat with mass healing output. So, therefore druid is enough + still has offensive buffs. It is also enough for CM runs as I have seen in my latest runs if I do CMs.

    The most important thing:
    It's good to have options and not kill one spec for another just because the one was the gold standard before and the other was neglected.
    People that think certain classes or build should be "banned" from the game or destroyed and even make fun out of it are the most toxic and childish ones. Also, they are not the ones Anet should ever listen to!

    Isnt tempest healer or core ele healer or any fb or renegade even dpa geared better than druid in fact. One spec will always be better as a healer dudu is not good since its healing output is low compared to every class whos not chrono . And sadly that group of complainers are the loudest most visible in feedbacks and that will hardly change but i accept all fun specs will eventually be nerfed to encourage a new combo setting

    You were one of the loudest who would have been happy about chrono and druid getting deleted from the content. That's ridiculous & childish.
    If you're insisting so hard on a better healer I would suggest getting gud at the game since massive heals are not needed in any of the pve content.

    Out of topic:even after major nerfs still much better then anything else.

    Not off topic, druid was taken due to chrono synergy. Obviously with the changes to chrono, fireband and renegade last patch, a superior synergy has emerged.

    The reason why people still rely on chrono is simple:

    • easier to get a chrono and druid because there is a ton more around still
    • people are used to the comp and the random PUG is pretty much trash at playing any way so they won't notice worse boon up-time. They will notice worse performance on fractals like Twilight Oasis, but that one was a wipe fest already without 1-2 competent players carrying a random PUG.
    • there is another balance patch and new gear (Divinier) coming, people are reluctant to change characters/builds
    • Firebrand+Renegade or Firebrand+chrono or even Firebrand solo is far superior to any other comp. A well played Firebrand can carry almost any team in fractals (same goes for Support Renegade but not as hard)

    People complaining about druid falling out of meta who were loud about chrono nerfs simply lacked the big picture and synergy.

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