Renegade Legend skills are now Wells that invoke Spirits

Renegade Legend skills are now Wells that invoke Spirits

What this means is that the Well effect works like other Well effects. Its a constant effect on those in the ground area of the Wells.

But Revenant's wells work differently since they invoke Spirits of Dead Charr soldiers that have their own unique side effects.These spirits do what they currently do.

But now each skill has a well passive effect.Spirits can be CCed and attacked like currently, but the Well effect cant be halted.

did i miss something ... never read this in patch notes

@Arkantos.7460 said:did i miss something ... never read this in patch notes

He suggests it.

Yay to Wells. Nay to special side effects.

@Xaylin.1860 said:

@"Arkantos.7460" said:did i miss something ... never read this in patch notes

If they made them wells, DRen's could rock Runes of the Chronomancer in fractals to give "not nearly enough, but hey look I gave some" levels of Quickness along with their Alacrity.

@Arkantos.7460 said:did i miss something ... never read this in patch notes

Clickbait.

And yeah there is a reason the summons are killable. They are removable Wells as a means to counter them. That is the balance of the 360 radius and partially their super low recharge. The second they become unremovable the ground in WvW would be covered by Darkrazor and Icerazor.

Actually I'm not sure exactly what he even means? Add more stuff to the summons?

@Justine.6351 said:

@Arkantos.7460 said:did i miss something ... never read this in patch notes

Example:

Razorclaw's Rage- drops a well at targeted ground location that pulses torment, and Summon centurion Jas Razorclaw which enhances the attacks of allies nearby Jas to cause their attacks to make enemies bleed.

Darkrazor's Daring- drop a well that that reduces damage taken of allies. Also summons Kus Darkrazor who interrupts foes.

Etc etc. The current spirits still do what they currently do. They can be CCed and all just like now. Only different is that each skill has a well effect that cant be CCed.

@Knighthonor.4061 said:

@Justine.6351 said:

@Arkantos.7460 said:did i miss something ... never read this in patch notes

So this is less about MAKING them wells and more about tacking on wells which doesn't really address any of the current issues people have with the summons.

I think if anything were to change about Renegade Wells, bringing Renegade Spirits in line with Ranger Spirits would make the most sense.The difference being the benefits they give, and the duration of their uptime.

This also means that there is now a place on the rune table for a Superior Rune Set that benefits from spirits (see: Chronomancer or Druid Runes)

@whiteaden.7842 said:I think if anything were to change about Renegade Wells, bringing Renegade Spirits in line with Ranger Spirits would make the most sense.The difference being the benefits they give, and the duration of their uptime.

This also means that there is now a place on the rune table for a Superior Rune Set that benefits from spirits (see: Chronomancer or Druid Runes)

Rene spirits already are vastly superior to druid spirits. Druid spirits give boons that can be made redundant by another class. Renegade's soulcleave summit and healing skill are irreplaceable by any other class and their effects are outrageously strong.

The only thing that needs to change is for rene spirits to be immune to CC in PvE.

@Justine.6351 said:

@Knighthonor.4061 said:

@Justine.6351 said:

@Arkantos.7460 said:did i miss something ... never read this in patch notes

The summons are powerful. They will get major nerfed if changed from being cc'able.

The wells make them useful regardless of CC but with a different effect from the powerful spirit effects.

Gives us a nice trade off for them being CC'able.

@Zenith.7301 said:

@whiteaden.7842 said:I think if anything were to change about Renegade Wells, bringing Renegade

Spirits

in line with Ranger

Spirits

would make the most sense.The difference being the benefits they give, and the duration of their uptime.

This also means that there is now a place on the rune table for a Superior Rune Set that benefits from spirits (see: Chronomancer or Druid Runes)

As I said to Justine, the spirits are incredibly powerful making them non CC'able will bring forth major Nerfs. But when they land they are great. I rather have a separate effect (Wells) that go along with them that isnt effected by CC. This way they can stay powerful and CC'ABLE, hitting hard when they not CCed, but also not being completely useless when in heavy CC situations (the Wells).

@Knighthonor.4061 said:

@Justine.6351 said:

@Knighthonor.4061 said:

@Justine.6351 said:

@"Arkantos.7460" said:did i miss something ... never read this in patch notes

?I didn't say make them unkillable or make them immune to cc. I said adding wells to them doesn't solve the current issues with them. One of the issues currently is "cannot travel to target location".

@Zenith.7301 said:

@whiteaden.7842 said:I think if anything were to change about Renegade Wells, bringing Renegade

Spirits

in line with Ranger

Spirits

would make the most sense.The difference being the benefits they give, and the duration of their uptime.

This also means that there is now a place on the rune table for a Superior Rune Set that benefits from spirits (see: Chronomancer or Druid Runes)

If anything, they need the cc immunity in PvP, not Pve... And even then, I think making them immune to cc would still be a little outrageous in certain situations. I'd say give them a breakbar, but honestly that sounds like too much work for us to expect. Maybe make them spawn with one stack of stability--even locking that behind a trait or something.

In PvE though... Your spirit should never get interrupted if you know the fights and place them with even a little bit of thought.

@narcx.3570 said:

@Zenith.7301 said:

@whiteaden.7842 said:I think if anything were to change about Renegade Wells, bringing Renegade

Spirits

in line with Ranger

Spirits

would make the most sense.The difference being the benefits they give, and the duration of their uptime.

This also means that there is now a place on the rune table for a Superior Rune Set that benefits from spirits (see: Chronomancer or Druid Runes)

Oh, please. Skorvald last phase, there is no placement that prevents them from getting CC'd. Siren's Reef, no prevention to them getting CC'd. MAMA CM, no prevention to CC, same for Ensolyss. Roomwide CC spam is abundant in this game and there's no reason why renegade spirits should be CC'able while warrior banners and druid spirits are not.

We all know rene spirits are CC'able because of the garbage format of pvp creating balance concerns, as it has always ruined most implementations for PvE balance.

@Zenith.7301 said:

@narcx.3570 said:

@Zenith.7301 said:

@whiteaden.7842 said:I think if anything were to change about Renegade Wells, bringing Renegade

Spirits

in line with Ranger

Spirits

would make the most sense.The difference being the benefits they give, and the duration of their uptime.

This also means that there is now a place on the rune table for a Superior Rune Set that benefits from spirits (see: Chronomancer or Druid Runes)

I mean like I said you know exactly when all that CC is coming, so just unchannel it or wait till after the slam to use it. I'll give you Siren's Reef, but Siren's Reef is a dumb mess anyways, so it shouldn't be the example they use to balance things.

As for Skorvald, when yer playing Divinegade/Power QB in a typical speed run you kill him before his spinning-rage-monster-hulk-out-cc is even an issue. Unless for some reason you're not using portals? Or your dps is just being hard carried or something?

And you said it yourself, they're vastly superior to druid spirits, which is why it's balanced for them to be more vulnerable... Soulcleave alone is so broken op that it literally acts as your group's healer in CM's. Like, not you, not someone else, just one skill that you don't even have to gear for and it overheals your group.

@narcx.3570 said:

@Zenith.7301 said:

@narcx.3570 said:

@Zenith.7301 said:

@whiteaden.7842 said:I think if anything were to change about Renegade Wells, bringing Renegade

Spirits

in line with Ranger

Spirits

would make the most sense.The difference being the benefits they give, and the duration of their uptime.

This also means that there is now a place on the rune table for a Superior Rune Set that benefits from spirits (see: Chronomancer or Druid Runes)

This is why I said to leave the spirits as is since making them non CC'ABLE will obviously lead to major nerfs. A Well effect that does something else passively beneficial to the combat situation would be a good-to-decent trade off for the spirits being Cc'able. Because you cant CC a Well.

the spirits should just work like normal aoes,no stupid pathing issues, no "oh they killed my aoe..."just have them work like every other aoe!

@narcx.3570 said:

@Xaylin.1860 said:

@"Arkantos.7460" said:did i miss something ... never read this in patch notes

Chronomancer rune quickness only applies to user, not allies.

@narcx.3570 said:

@Zenith.7301 said:

@narcx.3570 said:

@Zenith.7301 said:

@whiteaden.7842 said:I think if anything were to change about Renegade Wells, bringing Renegade

Spirits

in line with Ranger

Spirits

would make the most sense.The difference being the benefits they give, and the duration of their uptime.

This also means that there is now a place on the rune table for a Superior Rune Set that benefits from spirits (see: Chronomancer or Druid Runes)

I can tell you most PuG's are not killing Skorvald before they get knocked back a couple of times (because for some reason most druids/quickbrands are terrible about providing stab/aegis to the group in this phase and MAMA). The thing is, you're only worthwhile to a group over a druid if you are having full soulcleave uptime during a burst, which is not happening on Skorvald because even if you're immune to CC thanks to stab, your spirit isn't, and it's not like you're gonna sit there on Kalla and do nothing until he's done spinning and trucking people for 7k+ damage each wave.

It's truly a stupid limitation that exists for no reason other than PvP concerns. But the fact is banners are even more of a group DPS boost than spirits are and they have massively more range of effect, are untargetable for destruction, and are not affected by CC.

I'm actually annoyed that with all the calls to nerf chron/druid everybody conveniently forgets how broken banner warrior is in buffing the group. It is the single largest offensive group buff provider and in practice does significantly more DPS then druid/alacrigade/quickbrand and magnitudes more than chrono.

I wish they'd make Herald and Scrapper the buff alternatives to banner warrior. Power reaper could probably also use that role.

Renegade in pve is perfectly fine, no need to touch it. It could get some look in pvp/wvw tho