POWER REAPER 31.809K — Guild Wars 2 Forums

POWER REAPER 31.809K

Methuselah.4376Methuselah.4376 Member ✭✭✭
edited April 24, 2019 in Necromancer


Not my work, gonna link the video for you guys to see. As you can see, this person is using focus instead of WH. Does this make it official that focus is better? Or would a properly executed rotation with WH yield higher dps?

<1

Comments

  • Warscythes.9307Warscythes.9307 Member ✭✭✭

    @Methuselah.4376 said:

    Not my work, gonna link the video for you guys to see. As you can see, this person is using focus instead of WH. Does this make it official that focus is better? Or would a properly executed rotation with WH yield higher dps?

    The rotation is not right at all, there's no reason to ever use focus 4 and 5 for damage. I have a feeling he probably has GoE in there.

    The SC bench is done so just wait for that.

  • LucianDK.8615LucianDK.8615 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 24, 2019

    Will be quite interesting to see what SC comes up with. But yeah, focus definitely shouldnt be used with damage in mind. And what did you mean with GoE?

  • Warscythes.9307Warscythes.9307 Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 24, 2019

    @LucianDK.8615 said:
    Will be quite interesting to see what SC comes up with. But yeah, focus definitely shouldnt be used with damage in mind. And what did you mean with GoE?

    glyph of empowerment, it was removed and is not something you use in benchmarks because is not realistic to upkeep it permanently. People follow a benchmark standard of condis and boons to ensure is done at the same environment.

    SC video is out by the way at 31.2k

  • LucianDK.8615LucianDK.8615 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 24, 2019

    @Warscythes.9307 said:

    @LucianDK.8615 said:
    Will be quite interesting to see what SC comes up with. But yeah, focus definitely shouldnt be used with damage in mind. And what did you mean with GoE?

    glyph of empowerment, it was removed and is not something you use in benchmarks because is not realistic to upkeep it permanently. People follow a benchmark standard of condis and boons to ensure is done at the same environment.

    SC video is out by the way at 31.2k

    is there any details on weapons and traits you can share? In particular for the offhand debate.

  • Warscythes.9307Warscythes.9307 Member ✭✭✭

    @LucianDK.8615 said:

    @Warscythes.9307 said:

    @LucianDK.8615 said:
    Will be quite interesting to see what SC comes up with. But yeah, focus definitely shouldnt be used with damage in mind. And what did you mean with GoE?

    glyph of empowerment, it was removed and is not something you use in benchmarks because is not realistic to upkeep it permanently. People follow a benchmark standard of condis and boons to ensure is done at the same environment.

    SC video is out by the way at 31.2k

    is there any details on weapons and traits you can share? In particular for the offhand debate.

    just look up SC's video, they show everything. Specifically about the offhand, is pretty much never used for damage now. However warhorn is still likely better just for breakbar and LF gen in shroud. However the difference is minimal.

  • LucianDK.8615LucianDK.8615 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 24, 2019

    And traits? I dont see them shown.
    Also, it would be interesting to know if theyve modified anything equipment wise to use with the new Soul Eater. Due to no longer having Decimate Defenses.

    Ah: Found the comments.
    So the recent rework to Soul Eater has made Reaper a tad busted in terms of sustain and given it a nice damage buff (even more in fractals!). Due to the 33% crit in shroud you can still run full zerk as investing into precision for ~40% of your damage just really isn't worth it. What I did in this benchmark was use as Assassin GS with precise infusions/accuracy sigil, but for very short bursty fights such as KC/Fractals/Dungeons I recommend using a Berserker GS with Power Infusions/Impact Sigils. As for rotational changes, the lowered CD on GS 3 and WH 5 being moved to lifesteal changed things up a tad but. For your opener you now want to do 2 full GS auto chains and skip WH 5. For your loop you now want to enter GS with GS 3 - 2, 3 full auto chains, 1 auto, GS 2-3, then skip WH 5. Sub 50% is going to be the same rotation as before but skipping WH 5. This rotation has some mistakes and I swapped to axe half a second too early once below 50% so that is why I used WH 5, with some more grinding and optimization this could probably be 31.5k. Though this patch has introduced even more bugs regarding skill canceling on Reaper so it is a tad frustrating to grind out.

    Sounds like he isnt even using wh5 at all. So the benchmark did use modified gear

  • Warscythes.9307Warscythes.9307 Member ✭✭✭

    @LucianDK.8615 said:
    And traits? I dont see them shown.
    Also, it would be interesting to know if theyve modified anything equipment wise to use with the new Soul Eater. Due to no longer having Decimate Defenses.

    He posted the explanation in description

    Trait wise is the same from last time but you use soul eater instead of DD, so spite 122, SR 112, Reaper 213

  • LucianDK.8615LucianDK.8615 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Warscythes.9307 said:

    @LucianDK.8615 said:
    And traits? I dont see them shown.
    Also, it would be interesting to know if theyve modified anything equipment wise to use with the new Soul Eater. Due to no longer having Decimate Defenses.

    He posted the explanation in description

    Trait wise is the same from last time but you use soul eater instead of DD, so spite 122, SR 112, Reaper 213

    I noticed the description just before your reply and added it. But I could see he did use modified gear, an assassin gs. But not seeming to use wh5 at all if i understood it right.

  • Warscythes.9307Warscythes.9307 Member ✭✭✭

    @LucianDK.8615 said:

    @Warscythes.9307 said:

    @LucianDK.8615 said:
    And traits? I dont see them shown.
    Also, it would be interesting to know if theyve modified anything equipment wise to use with the new Soul Eater. Due to no longer having Decimate Defenses.

    He posted the explanation in description

    Trait wise is the same from last time but you use soul eater instead of DD, so spite 122, SR 112, Reaper 213

    I noticed the description just before your reply and added it. But I could see he did use modified gear, an assassin gs. But not seeming to use wh5 at all if i understood it right.

    Right, I thought I pointed out assassin gs but I guess that was in another thread. Regardless the full context on that is actually assassin gs is better in longer fights but for fractals or fights with shorter phases, zerker gs is better.

  • Nimon.7840Nimon.7840 Member ✭✭✭✭

    So sad. If you really want to reach an adequate DPS number you have to animation cancel so much, very unfun to play. And if you don't, you will only reach 29k DPS...

    Anet pls....

  • Sigmoid.7082Sigmoid.7082 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 25, 2019

    @Nimon.7840 said:
    So sad. If you really want to reach an adequate DPS number you have to animation cancel so much, very unfun to play. And if you don't, you will only reach 29k DPS...

    Anet pls....

    I don't see all the animation cancelling you're on about. Explain.
    Also using just GS and better opening burst rotation I can get 30~30.5.

  • Nimon.7840Nimon.7840 Member ✭✭✭✭

    You can basically animation cancel every single gravedigger
    As well as some of the 3rd autochain hit in shroud.

    That's the main part. :)

  • Sigmoid.7082Sigmoid.7082 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Nimon.7840 said:
    You can basically animation cancel every single gravedigger
    As well as some of the 3rd autochain hit in shroud.

    That's the main part. :)

    Did none of that still got above 30k using only GS. So I'm still confused at how you're stuck at 29.

  • Nimon.7840Nimon.7840 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 25, 2019

    @Sigmoid.7082 said:

    @Nimon.7840 said:
    You can basically animation cancel every single gravedigger
    As well as some of the 3rd autochain hit in shroud.

    That's the main part. :)

    Did none of that still got above 30k using only GS. So I'm still confused at how you're stuck at 29.

    Gonna give it a serious try today^^ till now I was messing around with slightly different builds or slightly different rotations.

    Edit: didn't take empower allies as a bud since I didn't know, if warriors still play that after the patch

  • Methuselah.4376Methuselah.4376 Member ✭✭✭

    But guys, lets take a moment to appreciate the fact that a year ago power reaper didn't even have a build listed on SC, and now it's the highest dpsing necro spec. It may not be doing 35k, but coupled with its inherent tankiness it now uses a sustain trait as part of its dps build. Quite neat I say.

  • Dadnir.5038Dadnir.5038 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Unrealistic buff and debuff... That's all there is to say. If perma fear was a possibility nobody would ever complain about necromancer's dps.

  • Nimon.7840Nimon.7840 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Dadnir.5038 said:
    Unrealistic buff and debuff... That's all there is to say. If perma fear was a possibility nobody would ever complain about necromancer's dps.

    Fear doesn't really matter. Cause no good player would ever take dread for a benchmark. And you will know when dread is taken, cause that results in 35-37k DPS.

    If at all you might want to remove chill from the golem.

    But these benchmarks are done with standard buffs you normally have.
    For reaper, only might, fury, quickness and alacrity do matter, as necro doesn't have a trait that lets us do x% more dmg for every boon.
    Same goes for conditions. Well I guess we have curses for crits, but that's not a viable power build option.

    If you'd really wanted realistic buffs for every boss, you'd have to do a benchmark for every single boss.

    But that gets hard to compare

  • Sigmoid.7082Sigmoid.7082 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Nimon.7840 said:

    @Dadnir.5038 said:
    Unrealistic buff and debuff... That's all there is to say. If perma fear was a possibility nobody would ever complain about necromancer's dps.

    Fear doesn't really matter. Cause no good player would ever take dread for a benchmark. And you will know when dread is taken, cause that results in 35-37k DPS.

    Vid in OP is using dread and GoE but the rotation is bad hence the low ball at 32k.

  • Methuselah.4376Methuselah.4376 Member ✭✭✭

    @Sigmoid.7082 said:

    @Nimon.7840 said:

    @Dadnir.5038 said:
    Unrealistic buff and debuff... That's all there is to say. If perma fear was a possibility nobody would ever complain about necromancer's dps.

    Fear doesn't really matter. Cause no good player would ever take dread for a benchmark. And you will know when dread is taken, cause that results in 35-37k DPS.


    Vid in OP is using dread and GoE but the rotation is bad hence the low ball at 32k.

    I didn't see GoE, though it could have been covered. Also you're assuming they are using Dread as didn't show what traits they're using. Dread gives 33% more damage so it would be more than 32k.

  • Sigmoid.7082Sigmoid.7082 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Methuselah.4376 said:

    @Sigmoid.7082 said:

    @Nimon.7840 said:

    @Dadnir.5038 said:
    Unrealistic buff and debuff... That's all there is to say. If perma fear was a possibility nobody would ever complain about necromancer's dps.

    Fear doesn't really matter. Cause no good player would ever take dread for a benchmark. And you will know when dread is taken, cause that results in 35-37k DPS.


    Vid in OP is using dread and GoE but the rotation is bad hence the low ball at 32k.

    I didn't see GoE, though it could have been covered. Also you're assuming they are using Dread as didn't show what traits they're using. Dread gives 33% more damage so it would be more than 32k.

    Of course they are using dread.

    Easy to tell because:
    1. They show the GD tooltip does which is around 4900. Reverse engineering the damage formula you can see they have around 3860 power. Pretty much the amount of power you would have in full zerker without AtP.
    2. Their opening Soul Spiral does over 100k with no CtD 20% modifier modifier. There is no rune in the game that would allow you to hit that with the power mentioned above.

    I mean you can compare the videos and see that between the SC bench and this one everything used is roughly 33% higher.

    The reason the benchmark is so low is because the rotation they are using in the video is terrible.

  • Psaro.6178Psaro.6178 Member ✭✭

    31.8k is no joke even if the rotation was inefficient. +1

  • Sigmoid.7082Sigmoid.7082 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Psaro.6178 said:
    31.8k is no joke even if the rotation was inefficient. +1

    Not with dread it is.
    The 31.2k could possibly get higher if it was ground though.

  • Methuselah.4376Methuselah.4376 Member ✭✭✭

    @Sigmoid.7082 said:

    @Methuselah.4376 said:

    @Sigmoid.7082 said:

    @Nimon.7840 said:

    @Dadnir.5038 said:
    Unrealistic buff and debuff... That's all there is to say. If perma fear was a possibility nobody would ever complain about necromancer's dps.

    Fear doesn't really matter. Cause no good player would ever take dread for a benchmark. And you will know when dread is taken, cause that results in 35-37k DPS.


    Vid in OP is using dread and GoE but the rotation is bad hence the low ball at 32k.

    I didn't see GoE, though it could have been covered. Also you're assuming they are using Dread as didn't show what traits they're using. Dread gives 33% more damage so it would be more than 32k.

    Of course they are using dread.

    Easy to tell because:
    1. They show the GD tooltip does which is around 4900. Reverse engineering the damage formula you can see they have around 3860 power. Pretty much the amount of power you would have in full zerker without AtP.
    2. Their opening Soul Spiral does over 100k with no CtD 20% modifier modifier. There is no rune in the game that would allow you to hit that with the power mentioned above.

    I mean you can compare the videos and see that between the SC bench and this one everything used is roughly 33% higher.

    The reason the benchmark is so low is because the rotation they are using in the video is terrible.

    Ah fair enough, was just being devil's advocate. I did think the rotation was off (especially with Death's Charge thrown in) and was surprised they got such high numbers

  • KrHome.1920KrHome.1920 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 25, 2019

    The numbers are what I expected:

    • take the 29,9K build,
    • add the 10% dps of the new Soul Eater trait,
    • substract the nerfed Wh5 crits and the lower crit chance (because Soul Eater replaces Decimate Defenses)
    • = 31,2K

    Considering that this build has an amazing cleave and sustain (31,2K x 5% = 1,56K selfheal/s), the numbers are solid.

  • Nimon.7840Nimon.7840 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I was testing and testing and testing, and didn't notice I didn't choose the souleater trait xD

  • LucianDK.8615LucianDK.8615 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Do tell us how it goes actually with it.

  • Now we just need every dps and a healer run necro so we could potentially perma fear it (x

    [RED] Crimson Sunspears...your small family guild since 2015.

  • Nimon.7840Nimon.7840 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 26, 2019

    So after testing with dread:
    I reached between 35-37k DPS
    But as it's not a viable build choice...
    Forget about that.

    I tried different builds again. Gonna test again today or tomorrow (well today is reset day^^)

    But I was consistently getting 28-30k DPS with souleater trait and the full zerker variant.
    (Most of the times the lower values, but my rotations haven't been perfect)

    Gonna play around with some more precision in my next test.

    The only thing I did test was opening burst.

    So before the patch the opening burst was something like:
    Wh5, well of suffering,gs4,gs5,haunt,RS4.

    With an assassin's gs I found myself using this opening much better:
    Gs5,gs4,well of suffering,axe2, haunt, RS4.
    That let me do up to 37k opening burst (maybe for real raid scenario this would be lower because target might not have instant 25 vuln or you having instant quickness)

    Also I'm currently testing something new in the rotation below 50%
    But that's a pretty though thing as it will leave you without of left after 3 times shroud. Gonna keep you updated and maybe do a video about it.

    Oh and btw. Below 50% dmg spikes of the rotation do 42-47k DPS (RS4).

    The real problem that I noticed that reaper has: it has nice burst dmg spikes, but out of shroud, using gs autoattacks the dmg drops significantly.
    While you are forced to do gs autos you will be doing around 20k DPS, just from autoattacking (which is insanely good in my opinion) but necro doesn't have the possibility to do anything beside the auto attack.

    So necros dmg graph is like low DPS,high DPS, low DPS, high DPS,... And so on.
    What other classes do much better here is not loosing so much DPS out of their burst phases.

  • Asum.4960Asum.4960 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 26, 2019

    Tested Power Reaper in W1-3 yesterday (excluding Matt obv.), and did around 26k DPS on average (full Zerker with Accuracy Sigil, no animation cancelling and some room for improvement in terms of rotation), which is alright for an actual Raid scenario I suppose.
    It's definitely a fairly viable DPS to run now, unless you want to be at peak performance.

    One thing that did bother me though was the Minions dying fairly frequently, as well as being deleted and put on CD by things like taking Slublings at Sloth.
    While LF management was generally alright, I have to say I didn't feel at all more durable than on a DH or even a DD, but that might have been in part me being more focused on the rotation and getting hit more than usually.

    All in all a slightly below average power dps with great cleave that should be welcome in any group not going for any sort of speed clearing.

    R.I.P. Build Templates, 15.10.2019

  • Dadnir.5038Dadnir.5038 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 26, 2019

    @Nimon.7840 said:
    So necros dmg graph is like low DPS,high DPS, low DPS, high DPS,... And so on.
    What other classes do much better here is not loosing so much DPS out of their burst phases.

    Cheer up, they made berserker work the same way for close to the same dps reward (only difference is that you have more support as berserker but less survivability), reaper is not alone. Maybe, just maybe all professions may end up like that.

  • Nimon.7840Nimon.7840 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Asum.4960 said:
    Tested Power Reaper in W1-3 yesterday (excluding Matt obv.), and did around 26k DPS on average (full Zerker with Accuracy Sigil, no animation cancelling and some room for improvement in terms of rotation), which is alright for an actual Raid scenario I suppose.
    It's definitely a fairly viable DPS to run now, unless you want to be at peak performance.

    One thing that did bother me though was the Minions dying fairly frequently, as well as being deleted and put on CD by things like taking Slublings at Sloth.
    While LF management was generally alright, I have to say I didn't feel at all more durable than on a DH or even a DD, but that might have been in part me being more focused on the rotation and getting hit more than usually.

    All in all a slightly below average power dps with great cleave that should be welcome in any group not going for any sort of speed clearing.

    There might be some very interesting things to test.

    What gear exactly did u play? Full zerker with accuracy sigil on both weapon sets?
    Or just on GS?
    Also what was your second sigil?
    Force?
    What infusions did you use?

    Did you always have a druid or a spotter-player in your group?

    What might be interesting: is impact sigil better than force on bosses like KC and gorse?
    And on other bosses use force sigil instead?

  • Asum.4960Asum.4960 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 26, 2019

    @Nimon.7840 said:

    @Asum.4960 said:
    Tested Power Reaper in W1-3 yesterday (excluding Matt obv.), and did around 26k DPS on average (full Zerker with Accuracy Sigil, no animation cancelling and some room for improvement in terms of rotation), which is alright for an actual Raid scenario I suppose.
    It's definitely a fairly viable DPS to run now, unless you want to be at peak performance.

    One thing that did bother me though was the Minions dying fairly frequently, as well as being deleted and put on CD by things like taking Slublings at Sloth.
    While LF management was generally alright, I have to say I didn't feel at all more durable than on a DH or even a DD, but that might have been in part me being more focused on the rotation and getting hit more than usually.

    All in all a slightly below average power dps with great cleave that should be welcome in any group not going for any sort of speed clearing.

    There might be some very interesting things to test.

    What gear exactly did u play? Full zerker with accuracy sigil on both weapon sets?
    Or just on GS?
    Also what was your second sigil?
    Force?
    What infusions did you use?

    Did you always have a druid or a spotter-player in your group?

    What might be interesting: is impact sigil better than force on bosses like KC and gorse?
    And on other bosses use force sigil instead?

    I didn't tryhard/maximise it, mostly just wanted to see it's practical application, in terms of minions, LF management, chill uptime and such, since I never took Reaper into a Raid before.
    Full Zerker, Force and Accuracy just on GS.
    No stat infusions, didn't always have spotter.

    R.I.P. Build Templates, 15.10.2019

  • Sublimatio.6981Sublimatio.6981 Member ✭✭✭


    so here's my take on reaper dps

    "clang clang shriiiiek clang!" -Belinda Delaqua
    When I join your LFG

  • Methuselah.4376Methuselah.4376 Member ✭✭✭

    @Sublimatio.6981 said:

    so here's my take on reaper dps

    This is awesome :)

  • Warscythes.9307Warscythes.9307 Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 26, 2019

    @Methuselah.4376 said:

    @Sublimatio.6981 said:

    so here's my take on reaper dps

    This is awesome :)

    I see AP in there so the damage is higher by 10% crit damage than it should be. Regardless that is probably still higher than the SC bench so GJ.

    EDIT: Actually now I think about it, 10% crit damage is roughly 4-5% from what I recall. 32.5k is 104.1% of 31.2k so the new bench is probably about the same. Honest mistake though so no foul but somebody would have to do the math.

  • Sublimatio.6981Sublimatio.6981 Member ✭✭✭

    @Warscythes.9307 said:

    I see AP in there so the damage is higher by 10% crit damage than it should be.

    ap is meta, druid is not. the benchmark is AS it should be

    "clang clang shriiiiek clang!" -Belinda Delaqua
    When I join your LFG

  • Warscythes.9307Warscythes.9307 Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 26, 2019

    @Sublimatio.6981 said:

    @Warscythes.9307 said:

    I see AP in there so the damage is higher by 10% crit damage than it should be.

    ap is meta, druid is not. the benchmark is AS it should be

    That doesn't matter, the entire point of having some sort of standard is so everybody is displaying result based on the same conditions. I am guessing you are probably benching based on fractal where druid is not played, instead you sub in a soulbeast at higher level of optimization but that's not really the point here. It is to have everybody dpsing under the same set of conditions.

    If you want to bench with the standard you set, then the result needs to be compared with the ones that follow the same set of rules. At the very least please have some sort of explanation because you and I know what's going on; the people on the forum really doesn't and they are one going to shout Reapers benching 32.5k is beating soulbeast and holo OMG and that's how we get nerfed. I don't mean to discredit you, I just want the information to be right so anet doesn't nerf us randomly due to wrongly compared information.

  • Sublimatio.6981Sublimatio.6981 Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 27, 2019

    @Warscythes.9307 said:
    That doesn't matter, the entire point of having some sort of standard is so everybody is displaying result based on the same conditions. I am guessing you are probably benching based on fractal where druid is not played, instead you sub in a soulbeast at higher level of optimization but that's not really the point here. It is to have everybody dpsing under the same set of conditions.

    The standard is changing with the meta. Druid has fallen out of the meta, and Renegade replaced it. That's why in the past you also used to take engi condi dmg buff but now you don't. Thats why in the past you didn't take AP but now you do. There is no official, delegated by community golem area testing commitee. Everyone is (should be) using what is reasonable at this moment.

    If you want to bench with the standard you set, then the result needs to be compared with the ones that follow the same set of rules.

    Okay, but when you "did math" to compare my vid to Majestic Noodle's vid - you didn't account for the fact that they used spotter and I didn't. Makes your calculation inaccurate. Also my rotation is a bit different so there's no comparison between the two.

    At the very least please have some sort of explanation because you and I know what's going on; the people on the forum really doesn't and they are one going to shout Reapers benching 32.5k is beating soulbeast and holo OMG and that's how we get nerfed. I don't mean to discredit you, I just want the information to be right so anet doesn't nerf us randomly due to wrongly compared information.

    What do I have to explain? Until someone improves my number, reapers are benching 32.5k dps under actual optimal scenarios - which is having a renegade and soulbeast in your party. And the current optimal composition is what dictates the buffs you take - for example, nobody takes vampiric presence for benchmarks - since it's not the standard (and standard being dictated by current meta, im kinda repeating myself now).

    Edit: Also if you really want "expanation", it is in the video description what this benchmark assumes. I wrote it specifically for ppl like you, though normally it should be a given that I use the updated buff set.

    "clang clang shriiiiek clang!" -Belinda Delaqua
    When I join your LFG

  • Warscythes.9307Warscythes.9307 Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 27, 2019

    @Sublimatio.6981 said:

    @Warscythes.9307 said:
    That doesn't matter, the entire point of having some sort of standard is so everybody is displaying result based on the same conditions. I am guessing you are probably benching based on fractal where druid is not played, instead you sub in a soulbeast at higher level of optimization but that's not really the point here. It is to have everybody dpsing under the same set of conditions.

    The standard is changing with the meta. Druid has fallen out of the meta, and Renegade replaced it. That's why in the past you also used to take engi condi dmg buff but now you don't. Thats why in the past you didn't take AP but now you do. There is no official, delegated by community golem area testing commitee. Everyone is (should be) using what is reasonable at this moment.

    If you want to bench with the standard you set, then the result needs to be compared with the ones that follow the same set of rules.

    Okay, but when you "did math" to compare my vid to Majestic Noodle's vid - you didn't account for the fact that they used spotter and I didn't. Makes your calculation inaccurate. Also my rotation is a bit different so there's no comparison between the two.

    At the very least please have some sort of explanation because you and I know what's going on; the people on the forum really doesn't and they are one going to shout Reapers benching 32.5k is beating soulbeast and holo OMG and that's how we get nerfed. I don't mean to discredit you, I just want the information to be right so anet doesn't nerf us randomly due to wrongly compared information.

    What do I have to explain? Until someone improves my number, reapers are benching 32.5k dps under actual optimal scenarios - which is having a renegade and soulbeast in your party. And the current optimal composition is what dictates the buffs you take - for example, nobody takes vampiric presence for benchmarks - since it's not the standard (and standard being dictated by current meta, im kinda repeating myself now).

    Edit: Also if you really want "expanation", it is in the video description what this benchmark assumes. I wrote it specifically for ppl like you, though normally it should be a given that I use the updated buff set.

    Yes you are correct that there is no official community golem benchmark standard. Yes the condition changes. However the fact is when everybody is benching with one standard and you are benching with your own; the result means nothing in comparison. Because right now your result of 32.5k cannot be used as a comparison to all the other benchmarks until is converted. Either all the other people need to conform to you, or you need to conform to them. Either go and convince SC and that they need to do all their benchmarks with your standard or I guess somebody can math out what your result will be under SC's conditions. Result under two completely different conditions cannot be measured against each other.

    Yes I missed spotter and probably sun spirit, but again that really doesn't matter because the underlying purpose of benchmark is for everybody to bench under the same result. It doesn't matter what the conditions has to be, it can be with AP or without spotter or with EA or without frost spirit, it just all needs to be done under the same conditions. The rotation is what people can take away from the video definitely.

    The explanation is for the people who do not understand how raid testing works. For example the OP of this thread who posted the 31.8k benchmark. It is not their fault as raid testing is fairly different. Look at how people gets confused and it would help people understand what the numbers mean.

    I just want to make sure you understand this. Reaper is benching 32.5k under your scenarios. I completely agree, in fact that is probably better than noodle's benchmark but I have no idea until is done under the same environment or somebody math it out. That number cannot be used in comparison to others as it is the only one number that exist in the system. You would need others to bench other classes under the same rules or all 32.5k means is that is a number. That's all that there is to it.

  • Sublimatio.6981Sublimatio.6981 Member ✭✭✭

    @Warscythes.9307 said:

    Yes you are correct that there is no official community golem benchmark standard.
    Either go and convince SC and that they need to do all their benchmarks with your standard or I guess somebody can math out what your result will be under SC's conditions.

    So is there a delegated commitee or...? SC is a guild of content creators, they don't dictate. Whatever they showcase is their own strategies/builds, and they don't necessarily update their website as much.

    Yes the condition changes. However the fact is when everybody is benching with one standard and you are benching with your own; the result means nothing in comparison. Because right now your result of 32.5k cannot be used as a comparison to all the other benchmarks until is converted. Either all the other people need to conform to you, or you need to conform to them.

    Why do you keep making this about me? It's not "my standard", I'm not some authority that everyone should convert to. Current buff set is not personal. It bothers me that you think so.

    Result under two completely different conditions cannot be measured against each other.

    Yes, it cannot, but for some reason you decided to attack my video which uses a buff set appropriate for current game build and try to downgrade it to the previous buff set. If people are still using spotter in their benchmarks, that should raise questions, not assassin's presence.

    Yes I missed spotter and probably sun spirit, but again that really doesn't matter because the underlying purpose of benchmark is for everybody to bench under the same result. It doesn't matter what the conditions has to be, it can be with AP or without spotter or with EA or without frost spirit, it just all needs to be done under the same conditions. The rotation is what people can take away from the video definitely.

    I'm getting a distinct feeling that if I was a member of [SC} and posted it as such, you would have 0 problem with this.

    The explanation is for the people who do not understand how raid testing works. For example the OP of this thread who posted the 31.8k benchmark. It is not their fault as raid testing is fairly different. Look at how people gets confused and it would help people understand what the numbers mean.

    I just want to make sure you understand this. Reaper is benching 32.5k under your scenarios.

    Again, it's not my scenario. Whole playerbase is adjusting since few balance patches to run firebrand+renegade. Also since you are a follower and believe SC word is holy truth, you can read more here and leave me be: https://old.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/bfbi3a/raids_every_balance_patch_that_actually_attempts/elcixbq/

    "clang clang shriiiiek clang!" -Belinda Delaqua
    When I join your LFG

  • Warscythes.9307Warscythes.9307 Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 27, 2019

    @Sublimatio.6981 said:

    @Warscythes.9307 said:

    Yes you are correct that there is no official community golem benchmark standard.
    Either go and convince SC and that they need to do all their benchmarks with your standard or I guess somebody can math out what your result will be under SC's conditions.

    So is there a delegated commitee or...? SC is a guild of content creators, they don't dictate. Whatever they showcase is their own strategies/builds, and they don't necessarily update their website as much.

    Yes the condition changes. However the fact is when everybody is benching with one standard and you are benching with your own; the result means nothing in comparison. Because right now your result of 32.5k cannot be used as a comparison to all the other benchmarks until is converted. Either all the other people need to conform to you, or you need to conform to them.

    Why do you keep making this about me? It's not "my standard", I'm not some authority that everyone should convert to. Current buff set is not personal. It bothers me that you think so.

    Result under two completely different conditions cannot be measured against each other.

    Yes, it cannot, but for some reason you decided to attack my video which uses a buff set appropriate for current game build and try to downgrade it to the previous buff set. If people are still using spotter in their benchmarks, that should raise questions, not assassin's presence.

    Yes I missed spotter and probably sun spirit, but again that really doesn't matter because the underlying purpose of benchmark is for everybody to bench under the same result. It doesn't matter what the conditions has to be, it can be with AP or without spotter or with EA or without frost spirit, it just all needs to be done under the same conditions. The rotation is what people can take away from the video definitely.

    I'm getting a distinct feeling that if I was a member of [SC} and posted it as such, you would have 0 problem with this.

    The explanation is for the people who do not understand how raid testing works. For example the OP of this thread who posted the 31.8k benchmark. It is not their fault as raid testing is fairly different. Look at how people gets confused and it would help people understand what the numbers mean.

    I just want to make sure you understand this. Reaper is benching 32.5k under your scenarios.

    Again, it's not my scenario. Whole playerbase is adjusting since few balance patches to run firebrand+renegade. Also since you are a follower and believe SC word is holy truth, you can read more here and leave me be: https://old.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/bfbi3a/raids_every_balance_patch_that_actually_attempts/elcixbq/

    I don't understand why this is difficult to understand.

    All I care about is to have everybody test under the same conditions, otherwise the result cannot be compared against each other. That is really it. I do not care who establish this standard or what the standard is in the first place but it has to be the same. You agreed that different results under different conditions cannot be compared against each other and that is simply the problem here. I go with SC numbers because they are the ones who has put out more benchmarks and therefore has more value as it can be used to do a comparison to each other. Rest assured if their benchmark were to be done under different conditions then I will protest as well. Your's at this point can only compare to yourself in which case the value is drastically lower. There is no intent to attack as I clarified before that I do not mean to discredit your video. It simply cannot be used to do a comparison others which is really the primary purpose of doing benchmark in the first place. Why else do people do dps benchmarks? To determine the relative strength of classes against each other, otherwise is just a number which has less meaning. To have these results which exist in a vacuum serves far less purpose than it could have been.

    All I want is for your result to be able to be able to compared and used. Look at the very example here, I think your result is better that than noodle's which would have suggest reaper has better potential and your rotation was better. But I have no idea if that is actually correct until both of you test under the exact same conditions. if you still cannot see that and insist I am trying to attack you for whatever reason then I am afraid the conversation ends here.

  • Sublimatio.6981Sublimatio.6981 Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 27, 2019

    @Warscythes.9307 said:
    All I care about is to have everybody test under the same conditions, otherwise the result cannot be compared against each other.

    I agree, but the conditions should be made under updated standards. You want ppl to use outdated standards, and more specifically have problem with me using updated standard instead of old one.

    That is really it. I do not care who establish this standard or what the standard is in the first place but it has to be the same.

    Nobody estabilishes the standard. (Well, ANet does, with their balance patches)
    And you should care what the standard is. I care, thats why I used the updated one. If you don't care, make your own benchmark using the outdated buff set, I just wont see it as valid. Classes should be compared to with up-to-date numbers, not with outdated or unrealistic ones.

    You agreed that different results under different conditions cannot be compared against each other and that is simply the problem here.

    And I explained that to solve that problem, you need to make comments under videos that use the old set, not the new one.

    I go with SC numbers because they are the ones who has put out more benchmarks and therefore has more value as it can be used to do a comparison to each other.

    So you believe quantity > quality. What's the point of comparing benchmarks using old buff set if their numbers aren't realistic anymore? Only thing you can do then is compare the classes in percentages, and benchmark should showcase each class individually, it's not just to compare.

    Rest assured if their benchmark were to be done under different conditions then I will protest as well.

    You would protest against using updated buffs even if it was SC overlords? :D wow

    Your's at this point can only compare to yourself in which case the value is drastically lower.

    I'm sorry for being the first (if I am). Next time I'll wait for someone else - who you deem more valuable and reputable - to do the transition. Maybe then you will stop nagging me.

    There is no intent to attack as I clarified before that I do not mean to discredit your video.

    You are discrediting it every time you write a comment about it not being comparable, like it's my fault there's no other videos with updated buffs to compare it to. If your problem wasn't truly with my video and just with the lack of quantity, then you would say something like "i wish there were more videos with updated buffs to compare it to". But no, you have problem with me not using old buffs, and that's not something I will do. Because I don't do unrealistic benchmarks. Idk what you want from me at this point.

    It simply cannot be used to do a comparison others which is really the primary purpose of doing benchmark in the first place.

    Then don't compare it. I don't care about you comparing it to outdated/invalid videos. Thats the reaper dps showcase with realistic buffs. Take it for what it is.

    Why else do people do dps benchmarks? To determine the relative strength of classes against each other, otherwise is just a number which has less meaning. To have these results which exist in a vacuum serves far less purpose than it could have been.

    I guess my video has less purpose then, so sorry :) Maybe if people make more videos of the classes they enjoy and use realistic buffs, you can then compare my video, I hope you will find it valuable then, since it's SO worthless now (talk about not discrediting it lol)

    All I want is for your result to be able to be able to compared and used. Look at the very example here, I think your result is better that than noodle's which would have suggest reaper has better potential and your rotation was better. But I have no idea if that is actually correct until both of you test under the exact same conditions. if you still cannot see that and insist I am trying to attack you for whatever reason then I am afraid the conversation ends here.

    I can't give you what you want. I gave you reaper video. If you want it to compare with something, go ask other ppl to produce more videos with comparable buffs.

    "clang clang shriiiiek clang!" -Belinda Delaqua
    When I join your LFG

  • Warscythes.9307Warscythes.9307 Member ✭✭✭

    @Sublimatio.6981 said:

    @Warscythes.9307 said:
    All I care about is to have everybody test under the same conditions, otherwise the result cannot be compared against each other.

    I agree, but the conditions should be made under updated standards. You want ppl to use outdated standards, and more specifically have problem with me using updated standard instead of old one.

    That is really it. I do not care who establish this standard or what the standard is in the first place but it has to be the same.

    Nobody estabilishes the standard.
    And you should care what the standard is. I care, thats why I used the updated one. If you don't care, make your own benchmark using the outdated buff set, I just wont see it as valid. Classes should be compared to with up-to-date numbers, not with outdated or unrealistic ones.

    You agreed that different results under different conditions cannot be compared against each other and that is simply the problem here.

    And I explained that to solve that problem, you need to make comments under videos that use the old set, not the new one.

    I go with SC numbers because they are the ones who has put out more benchmarks and therefore has more value as it can be used to do a comparison to each other.

    So you believe quantity > quality. What's the point of comparing benchmarks using old buff set if their numbers aren't realistic anymore? Only thing you can do then is compare the classes in percentages, and benchmark should showcase each class individually, it's not just to compare.

    Rest assured if their benchmark were to be done under different conditions then I will protest as well.

    You would protest against using updated buffs even if it was SC overlords? :D wow

    Your's at this point can only compare to yourself in which case the value is drastically lower.

    I'm sorry for being the first (if I am). Next time I'll wait for someone else - who you deem more valuable and reputable - to do the transition. Maybe then you will stop nagging me.

    There is no intent to attack as I clarified before that I do not mean to discredit your video.

    You are discrediting it every time you write a comment about it not being comparable, like it's my fault there's no other videos with updated buffs to compare it to. If your problem wasn't truly with my video and just with the lack of quantity, then you would say something like "i wish there were more videos with updated buffs to compare it to". But no, you have problem with me not using old buffs, and that's not something I will do. Because I don't do unrealistic benchmarks. Idk what you want from me at this point.

    It simply cannot be used to do a comparison others which is really the primary purpose of doing benchmark in the first place.

    Then don't compare it. I don't care about you comparing it to outdates/invalid videos. Thats the reaper dps showcase with realistic buffs. Take it for what it is.

    Why else do people do dps benchmarks? To determine the relative strength of classes against each other, otherwise is just a number which has less meaning. To have these results which exist in a vacuum serves far less purpose than it could have been.

    I guess my video has less purpose then, so sorry :) Maybe if people make more videos of the classes they enjoy and use realistic buffs, you can then compare my video, I hope you will find it valuable then, since it's SO worthless now (talk about not discrediting it lol)

    All I want is for your result to be able to be able to compared and used. Look at the very example here, I think your result is better that than noodle's which would have suggest reaper has better potential and your rotation was better. But I have no idea if that is actually correct until both of you test under the exact same conditions. if you still cannot see that and insist I am trying to attack you for whatever reason then I am afraid the conversation ends here.

    I can't give you what you want. I gave you reaper video. If you want it to compare with something, go ask other ppl to produce more videos with comparable buffs.

    I will try to explain this one last time

    Can we at least agree that people mostly use benchmarks to figure out how good a class is?

    So imagine if I want to play power reaper and I want to know if is good. You tell me it does about 32.5k. Well that sounds pretty decent but how good is that? If there is no others to compare it to then all I know is the class does 32.5k damage. It doesn't really tell me whether or not if is actually good.

    Now imagine that you can tell me that all the other classes do about 40k damage. Well that means the class is bad because 32.5k is way lower than 40k so I should avoid it. Or now imagine you tell me all the other classes do about 20k. Then that to me sounds like the class is really good and probably OP. Now that's information I can use.

    I will say this one more time. I don't care exactly what is the current standard or who created them. Doesn't matter if is DnT or SC or whatever. It simply has to be the same. Right now people use SC's numbers because they are the ones who put out the most benchmarks and therefore it can be used to compare against each other. It is not because I am some SC fanboy. I just want there to be a clear presentation of information.

    If you still cannot understand what I am trying to say, then I seriously have no more words for you. Good luck on doing whatever you were doing.

  • Sublimatio.6981Sublimatio.6981 Member ✭✭✭

    @Warscythes.9307
    It's so annoying when people think they're being misunderstood and feel like they keep explaining something. I suggest you start differentiating being misunderstood and being disagreed with. And yes, I don't have more to add so good luck have fun

    "clang clang shriiiiek clang!" -Belinda Delaqua
    When I join your LFG

  • Nimon.7840Nimon.7840 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 27, 2019

    @Sublimatio.6981 said:
    @Warscythes.9307
    It's so annoying when people think they're being misunderstood and feel like they keep explaining something. I suggest you start differentiating being misunderstood and being disagreed with. And yes, I don't have more to add so good luck have fun

    Im curious. How long did you grind for that vid?

    I just had 3 tries, where 6-8 gravediggers didn't crit below 50%

    If I watch your video, you have way less non crits

    Also when I join pugs right now, there's always a minimum of one druid and not all the times a revenant.

    So did the people either all not know about a meta change? Or does noone care?

    When everyone's still playing druid over rev you should be doing a vid without ap

    Yes maybe snowcrows has at least one renegade on almost every boss, but are all groups playing this?

    Nope.

  • Sublimatio.6981Sublimatio.6981 Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 27, 2019

    @Nimon.7840 said:
    Im curious. How long did you grind for that vid?

    I just had 3 tries, where 6-8 gravediggers didn't crit below 50%

    If I watch your video, you have way less non crits

    I spent around 30 minutes in the golem area (measured by my msg times on discord as I was reporting my tries to my bf)
    First 10 min: doing Noodle's rotation, trying on different stats, runes
    Second 10 min: trying out different rotation, polishing it
    Third 10 min: deciding that full zerk is better, then trying a bit the rotation till I get highest number.

    So not really grinding, I don't do that. I'm sure someone will beat it in few days

    Also when I join pugs right now, there's always a minimum of one druid and not all the times a revenant.

    Because pick up groups are always behind meta/optimal comps as it's not an organised group. By nature they play what they're used to and are less eager to change what works for them. You also barely see pug groups doing intricate fractal skips and such.
    Also, that's your personal experience. I see many groups using renegade+firebrand

    So did the people either all not know about a meta change? Or does noone care?

    Most people acknowledge meta change but are too lazy to change with it. And yes some people don't know.

    When everyone's still playing druid over rev you should be doing a vid without ap

    Not everyone is still playing druid. Also people are still playing healing necro or healing firebrand and other shenanigans. That doesn't dictate golem testing.

    Yes maybe snowcrows has at least one renegade on almost every boss, but are all groups playing this?

    Nope.

    So? Golem tests are for optimal group scenarios, it's irrelevant whether pug/suboptimal groups don't run revenant or if they prefer heal necro or whatever.

    "clang clang shriiiiek clang!" -Belinda Delaqua
    When I join your LFG

  • LucianDK.8615LucianDK.8615 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Im kind of suprised that SC havent reacted to Soul Eater or listed the new benchmarks. As well weighted on the offhand choice.

  • Deadvillager.1956Deadvillager.1956 Member ✭✭✭

    @LucianDK.8615 said:
    Im kind of suprised that SC havent reacted to Soul Eater or listed the new benchmarks. As well weighted on the offhand choice.

    Its not really an off hand choice if you ask me. You can decide if you have a better WH skin or Focus skin for your outfit since you wont use anything of either in DPS phases. I brought a Focus to the last Dhuum raid for Focus5 but other than that I believe it doesnt really matter which one you bring.

  • Aetatis.5418Aetatis.5418 Member ✭✭✭

    @Deadvillager.1956 said:

    @LucianDK.8615 said:
    Im kind of suprised that SC havent reacted to Soul Eater or listed the new benchmarks. As well weighted on the offhand choice.

    Its not really an off hand choice if you ask me. You can decide if you have a better WH skin or Focus skin for your outfit since you wont use anything of either in DPS phases. I brought a Focus to the last Dhuum raid for Focus5 but other than that I believe it doesnt really matter which one you bring.

    still using the wh for the extra LF generation IN shroud, to maintain shroud for the full 10sec even if you eat some dmg
    if i ever feel like i cant get LF up until shroud is rdy again (below 50% that could be an issue during long fights) i am going to switch to focus. experience will tell

  • Methuselah.4376Methuselah.4376 Member ✭✭✭


    Found a new video - 31.6k

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