I find myself in quite the quandary trying to pick between Mesmer and Elementalist — Guild Wars 2 Forums

I find myself in quite the quandary trying to pick between Mesmer and Elementalist

Hello everyone,

I apologize if this is a dead horse, but as the title suggests, I find myself in a difficult spot trying to figure out which one I really want to play. To date, I have played both leveling them up through core Tyria, the personal story and the first segments of Living World 2. While I have the Raptor, Bunny, Skimmer and Jackal, I haven't done any of the PoF storylines. The same goes for Gliding and some of the masteries in HoT.

For the Mesmer, I've played power Core, Chrono (since the nerf, never before then) and Mirage. I have not tried Condi Mesmer in any form.

For the Elementalist, I've tried power Core and Tempest. On a previous Ele I did try Weaver but the constant skill switching thing is really not something I enjoy and have no real interest in trying again. I find it incredibly irritating.

My primary focus is open world and since I've done very little story when considering everything: person, lw2, hot, lw3, pof, lw4, ice brood. That is my main focus. Though ideally, I would like to be able to do fractals, raids and wvw as well.

To be perfectly honest, I really only want one character to do the vast majority of my activities on which is why the argument, just play both, won't really work here. I'm tired of seemingly getting no where and want to start making some real progress.

My ascended equipment is as follows:
Complete set of Marauder Armor with +9 infusions
Berserker Amulet, Rings x2, Earrings x2 (no infusions)
Celestial Amulet, Rings x2 (with 2 +9 infusions each), Earrings x2 (with 1 +9 infusion each)
Marauder Scepter
Beyond that, Exotic gear

My Tempest typically plays Scepter/Warhorn with a Staff on switch using a Fire/Air/Tempest fresh air set up (that I typically spend half my time in fire as well for the power. Mistake probably, but things seem to die somewhat efficiently.)
My Mesmer, which is currently Chrono I believe, is Greatsword with a Sword/Focus on switch using WP's Summoner build

Recently, I sent both of them out into a PoF. They were to fight the same types of mobs and despite the Tempest being better geared, the Mesmer destroyed things more efficiently.

But is it enough?

I do love blowing stuff up but would I miss the Elementalist's healing versatility? Then again, the Mesmer has her own versatility with invisibility, clone effects and portals.

When I do group events on my Tempest, I typically switch over to staff and adopt a more healing role, figuring there probably aren't enough healers and I can be useful. The Mesmer wouldn't give me that option I don't think, but then I could always dps which is necessary as well.

If the Mesmer has better survivability and blows stuff up with lesser gear than the Tempest, I doubt I'm doing myself much in the way of favors playing the Ele. Always loved the elemental aspect of magic and stuff though. Every game I've ever played I pick mages as warriors and the like simply do not interest me at all.

Plus, for this game, I love the looks I can make with cloth armor. The other armor classes just don't appeal to me at all. I threw an outfit on my Ranger and Guardian just so I wouldn't have to look at their hideous armor outside the equipment page. Not that I've played either in quite awhile now.

Oh, and for the record, I tried Necromancer and I couldn't get passed level 31. I found it very boring and tiresome, even if Reaper looks kind of cool.

Anyways, I'm rambling here and I guess my real question is, which profession between Mesmer and Elementalist will give me the most stability/flexibility in doing open world pve, fractals, raids and wvw?

-Jenny

P.S. I suppose this could be in professions section too, but I thought since I'm asking for help it would be better here.

Comments

  • AliamRationem.5172AliamRationem.5172 Member ✭✭✭✭

    It sounds like WP's chrono build is working out well for you, so I'd stick with that. Ele is a great choice, too, but I think it's true that it requires more effort to achieve similar outcomes.

  • I was in that same quandary between Tempest and Mirage for open world. Turns out what I really wanted was condi Scourge. :)

  • Ashantara.8731Ashantara.8731 Member ✭✭✭✭

    There is only one Mesmer build I enjoy. That said, Mesmer can be as versatile as Elementalist, but in different ways, so it all comes down to personal preference.

    To me, apart from that one Mesmer build, I only know of two viable reasons to have a Mesmer on board: mere group support (i.e., with little damage) in PvE and tank (no damage, mere survival) in certain raids. In solo-play, you will have more fun with an Elementalist, as you can play various damage-oriented builds; yes, an Elementalist can play a mere support role as well when they have to, but they can also be extremely good damage dealers.

    So, I would recommend an Elementalist. Unless, like me, you can do with just one viable damage build for the Mesmer (as all the others are truly mediocre in comparison to other professions).

  • Irensaga.6935Irensaga.6935 Member ✭✭✭

    I main both an Elementalist and a Mesmer. The Mesmer is better than the Elementalist for Open World solo content in my opinion.

    It's not an issue of damage - sure, my Elementalist has more AOE damage I guess. But my Mesmer melts stuff just about as fast as my Ele does. Once I specced into Chronomancer, I started using wells, and AOE damage was no longer an issue.

    Here's the difference - my Elementalist completely crumples like wet paper when attacked by multiple mobs in the HoT, PoF and Living World maps. Garbage hit points, garbage armor, and not a lot of good damage mitigation - UNLESS you spec completely for some PvP "bunker-Ele" build that nerfs your damage to rubbish. And then you still get curb stomped by veterans and champions and stuff. Playing Ele all the way through HoT, LWS3, PoF, and halfway into LWS4... what I found out is this - the Elementalist really has only one defense - melt everything before it can hit back. If you get in a protracted fight - you're screwed. If you pull an extra pack of enemies - you're screwed. If you try to fight Caudecus in the boss fight in Living World and you don't know the fight mechanics perfectly with perfect reflex time - you're screwed. If you try to down Mordremoth at the end of HoT - you're screwed. Try to fight even a single Flame Djinn with average player abilities - you're screwed. Even groups of mobs in ORR can beat you up if you aren't careful - which is just embarrassing.

    Hey, Ele is lots of action-packed fun. Busting around with a Fresh Air Tempest chucking lightning orbs, calling down thunder, swapping into fire for might-stacking, and lightning whipping all over the place is a lot of fun. But it's just unacceptably squishy unless you are some elite player who really knows what they are doing. You'll die - A LOT. Get used to trying repeatedly to kill Living World end-story bosses until all your armor is busted and you're naked, and give up and ask guild mates for help.

    Seriously, I LOVE the Ele playstyle. And you bring a lot of auras and utility to Open World group fight events. But it's just soul-crushingly fragile.

    But if you're determined to give it a go anyway, here's a great build video using the Tempest spec from HoT:

  • Irensaga.6935Irensaga.6935 Member ✭✭✭

    Now, like I said - I eventually got fed up with dying constantly on my Ele and switched over to my second oldest and most-played character, my Mesmer.

    The difference was dramatic.

    The damage output was pretty similar actually. I ran a mainly greatsword Chronomancer build with sword/shield offhand to switch to when I got bum-rushed by too much close-combat and needed to fire off Blurred Frenzy to survive. Launch the Greatsword phantasm (twice if you build your skills right), get some clones up, drop a couple wells, and just watch stuff melt from safe range. And since most of the monsters are attacking your clones and not you, the Mesmer is actually really survivable. I mean seriously, my Mesmer is freaking tough to take down. I was solo-defending camps in Verdant Brink during the meta-events. Never could do that on my Ele.

    The fight with Mordremoth where I broke all my armor, and then swapped to my extra armor set, broke all that too - because I was dying so much - rage quit, and begged my fellow guild mates to bail me out (which they did like champs)... My Mesmer downed it on the fifth try, no sweat. I was shocked at how easy it was by comparison.

    After that, I was sold. It's not that I disliked the Elementalist playstyle. I still liked it. But I also liked my Mesmer's fluid playstyle as she just swam easily through the higher-end maps. Mesmer just survives better than the Elementalist in pressure situations, boss fights, meta events, and those times where you accidentally pull ten Chakh mobs including a couple veterans down on you. Unless you really like the Elementalist, I'd say go Mesmer. You'll pull out less of your hair.

    And here's a build video from the same guy on an Open World Mesmer that I'm currently using myself. It's excellent.

  • Irensaga.6935Irensaga.6935 Member ✭✭✭

    By the way, WoodenPotatoes has Open World builds for ALL the classes - and you really need to check them all out.

  • AliamRationem.5172AliamRationem.5172 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Irensaga.6935 said:
    I main both an Elementalist and a Mesmer. The Mesmer is better than the Elementalist for Open World solo content in my opinion.

    I don't disagree with you that mesmer is the easier/better choice for open world and I also trust WP's advice, but he does pull a bit of a fast one here when he suggests his build can survive HoT HP champions. While technically true, he chose as his demonstration a boss that stops attacking unless you continue to attack it and he literally walks away to heal in the middle of the fight!

    Does that matter? Not really. Most people don't have the expectation that they can solo HoT champions anyway, and many who can really don't see much point in doing so. If you can survive while dealing the kind of area damage he demonstrates in the video, what's there to complain about, right?

    Having said that, I disagree that elementalist has to give up all of its damage in open world if it wants to be extremely tanky. You should try condi setups. They are stronger than most people think. As you say, this is a PvP-style build:

    Build Link: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PGgAw2lZwmYXMJmJOKXbvfA-zRRYkRC7NKwlRmFQvJgDzSVSbA-e


    How tanky do you want it? My health never even reaches 50% and I never swap to water or use a heal. This while fighting a champion, a veteran, and 7 normal units and dealing enough damage to beat the add respawn by nearly half a minute!

    This one is against a boss that applies significantly more pressure, forcing me to play defensively and use water attunement for recovery.

    I can also solo all of the HoT hero point champions with this build, including Avatar of Balthazar and Mushroom Queen (which is really quite something for a pure melee build!).

  • Khisanth.2948Khisanth.2948 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Jenny.4831 said:
    To be perfectly honest, I really only want one character to do the vast majority of my activities on which is why the argument, just play both, won't really work here. I'm tired of seemingly getting no where and want to start making some real progress.

    Everything in game can be done on any class so those things do not work as filters.

    I do love blowing stuff up but would I miss the Elementalist's healing versatility? Then again, the Mesmer has her own versatility with invisibility, clone effects and portals.

    When I do group events on my Tempest, I typically switch over to staff and adopt a more healing role, figuring there probably aren't enough healers and I can be useful. The Mesmer wouldn't give me that option I don't think, but then I could always dps which is necessary as well.

    That is achievable on a mesmer too, I do that on one of my chrono. Is it to the same level as elementalist? Hard to say without doing a more thorough analysis but my goal is to provide some support not trying to hard carry.

    If the Mesmer has better survivability and blows stuff up with lesser gear than the Tempest, I doubt I'm doing myself much in the way of favors playing the Ele. Always loved the elemental aspect of magic and stuff though. Every game I've ever played I pick mages as warriors and the like simply do not interest me at all.

    A lot of that will come down to the details of the build but an elementalist is going to have to make use of the different attunements to get the most out of it. The class isn't designed for people to just sit in one element all the time, at least not while soloing stuff. If you don't want to deal with attunements then that is more reason to steer towards mesmer.

    Plus, for this game, I love the looks I can make with cloth armor. The other armor classes just don't appeal to me at all. I threw an outfit on my Ranger and Guardian just so I wouldn't have to look at their hideous armor outside the equipment page. Not that I've played either in quite awhile now.

    Oh, and for the record, I tried Necromancer and I couldn't get passed level 31. I found it very boring and tiresome, even if Reaper looks kind of cool.

    Reaper and core necro are really not comparable ... although if you went with minions both will probably be equally boring.

  • AliamRationem.5172AliamRationem.5172 Member ✭✭✭✭

    My pure condi mirage build for mesmer is definitely easier to play than the weaver. It's more forgiving of mistakes, it has the benefit of a ranged weapon swap, and it's generally less complicated to learn and use. It is somewhat lower damage, however. This is also what you'd call a PvP-style build.

    Build Link: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PiwAc+ZlRwQYSMMmJW0P6vOA-zRJYkRHfZkTKkZF49sUl0G-e

  • Irensaga.6935Irensaga.6935 Member ✭✭✭

    @AliamRationem.5172 said:

    Having said that, I disagree that elementalist has to give up all of its damage in open world if it wants to be extremely tanky. You should try condi setups. They are stronger than most people think. As you say, this is a PvP-style build:

    I can also solo all of the HoT hero point champions with this build, including Avatar of Balthazar and Mushroom Queen (which is really quite something for a pure melee build!).

    Well, I'm not going to disagree with your results in the videos. Definitely impressive.

    I should clarify a bit - I'm coming from the perspective of someone who has been playing for three years or something, but who never really passed the status of "filthy casual." I think I'm maybe better than average, and I'm not a noob or anything. But I'm not a great player either. Mediocre skills generally. I try to study the build guides when I can, try out optimal armor, runes, traits and all that. I try to avoid damage in fights with dodging. I try to might-stack as much as possible and other things. But I don't actually know a lot of enemy mechanics and my ability to swap abilities is - lacking, I'd say.

    So, I wrote my comments from that perspective. Someone who isn't one of the "elites" in the game who are usually doing - in the words of the game developers - ten times more damage than most other players. From the perspective of a casual GW2 player - I'd say Elementalist is a rough ride.

    I'm not terribad - but I'm also nowhere near at the skill level of soloing the stuff in either Woodenpotatoes' videos, or yours - on any class.

    So take my advice from that perspective. That of an average player.

    From what I could see in your videos... Sword-Weaver... stacks a good chunk of might constantly... lots of burning damage - I assume condi is where most of your damage is coming from. Lots of attribute mixing and swapping going on. I assume you're getting toughness from earth skills and, as you said, healing from water. Looks like a complex rotation that I'd likely struggle with. I played around with Weaver during my first-time story run of PoF. Never could get it to work. Probably because I never mastered the element swapping.

    So I switched back to a Fresh Air Tempest like Woodenpotatoes' build and mostly camp Air, while swapping to Fire occasionally for might-stacking, and dipping into Earth once in a while to blind stuff. Which means I'm not playing that build as well as WP intended either. But, atunement-swapping is rather tough.

  • AliamRationem.5172AliamRationem.5172 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Irensaga.6935 said:

    @AliamRationem.5172 said:

    Having said that, I disagree that elementalist has to give up all of its damage in open world if it wants to be extremely tanky. You should try condi setups. They are stronger than most people think. As you say, this is a PvP-style build:

    I can also solo all of the HoT hero point champions with this build, including Avatar of Balthazar and Mushroom Queen (which is really quite something for a pure melee build!).

    Well, I'm not going to disagree with your results in the videos. Definitely impressive.

    I should clarify a bit - I'm coming from the perspective of someone who has been playing for three years or something, but who never really passed the status of "filthy casual." I think I'm maybe better than average, and I'm not a noob or anything. But I'm not a great player either. Mediocre skills generally. I try to study the build guides when I can, try out optimal armor, runes, traits and all that. I try to avoid damage in fights with dodging. I try to might-stack as much as possible and other things. But I don't actually know a lot of enemy mechanics and my ability to swap abilities is - lacking, I'd say.

    So, I wrote my comments from that perspective. Someone who isn't one of the "elites" in the game who are usually doing - in the words of the game developers - ten times more damage than most other players. From the perspective of a casual GW2 player - I'd say Elementalist is a rough ride.

    I'm not terribad - but I'm also nowhere near at the skill level of soloing the stuff in either Woodenpotatoes' videos, or yours - on any class.

    So take my advice from that perspective. That of an average player.

    From what I could see in your videos... Sword-Weaver... stacks a good chunk of might constantly... lots of burning damage - I assume condi is where most of your damage is coming from. Lots of attribute mixing and swapping going on. I assume you're getting toughness from earth skills and, as you said, healing from water. Looks like a complex rotation that I'd likely struggle with. I played around with Weaver during my first-time story run of PoF. Never could get it to work. Probably because I never mastered the element swapping.

    So I switched back to a Fresh Air Tempest like Woodenpotatoes' build and mostly camp Air, while swapping to Fire occasionally for might-stacking, and dipping into Earth once in a while to blind stuff. Which means I'm not playing that build as well as WP intended either. But, atunement-swapping is rather tough.

    For both my mesmer and elementalist builds featured in the videos I am using pure condi (no power) stats, which leaves plenty of room for passive mitigation. The mesmer is full trailblazer (condi/toughness, expertise/vitality) and the elementalist is half trailblazer and half plaguedoctor (condi/vitality, concentration/healing). So, while you may not be able to do what you see in the videos, what you should find is that your elementalist is nowhere near as squishy using a build like this. This may work better for players who aren't as technically proficient than WP's recommended builds which are generally pretty glassy.

    But yes, again, elementalist is definitely more complicated than Mirage. But if Mirage still looks too complex, I have a build for that as well!

    Build Link: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vhAQFAWnsICNohVoBeoBMrhlZjyv+3//3sC2tWqMAutkB-jByCwAAeAAv0BARJoP1fCcBAaq8T4+DGM/RKgqEtB-e

    I designed this build for a friend who is, shall we say, very bad at games like this? I've taken away the weapon swap and put signets in all of the utility slots. My instructions to her were literally this: Just keep pushing 1 and dodge as much as you can. You can push other buttons whenever you like, but just make sure you keep pushing 1 and dodge and you will be fine.

    Here is video proof. I deliberately stand in the fire and just push 1 and dodge and I'm still able to handle everything including going solo against a PoF bounty champion!

    See? No skill required! If you just want to survive without having any idea of what you're doing and you want to do it with the cheapest possible gear, this might be the build for you!

  • Genesis.5169Genesis.5169 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Its open world do what you want you'll eventually get a billion tomes of knowledge to make out all the classes. If you asked me don't go Mesmer get nerfed alot for no reason oftenly.

    But really open world isnt hard you can get by with well time rolls and your auto attack 99% of the time the other1% you'll have to throw in a skill or heal.

    For those on the forums who advocate for the removal of duo queues in Spvp, realize your actions over the past 7 years has destroyed gw2 Spvp and thinking doing the same thing again is a good idea after several years of it not working crazy. Get better at pvp.

  • AliamRationem.5172AliamRationem.5172 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Genesis.5169 said:
    Its open world do what you want you'll eventually get a billion tomes of knowledge to make out all the classes. If you asked me don't go Mesmer get nerfed alot for no reason oftenly.

    But really open world isnt hard you can get by with well time rolls and your auto attack 99% of the time the other1% you'll have to throw in a skill or heal.

    While it's true mesmer has been nerfed repeatedly, it's still an amazing choice for casual open world play and would not be a bad option for someone looking for a build that is not really optimized for anything in particular, but can handle a lot of situations well without drastically changing its playstyle. This is what I think the OP is looking for in a build and why I recommend a condi mirage PvP-inspired build.

    It's not going to compete with specialized builds (i.e. meta builds for fractals/raids), but if you want solid damage paired with god tier survivability for open world/story content, it's a good option. How solid is "solid" damage? Good enough, for example, to beat the split (Echoes of the Unclean) in Siax the Corrupted T4 Nightmare challenge mode. And yet, tanky enough to solo many legendary bounties. Multi-purpose.

  • Genesis.5169Genesis.5169 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 30, 2020

    @AliamRationem.5172 said:

    @Genesis.5169 said:
    Its open world do what you want you'll eventually get a billion tomes of knowledge to make out all the classes. If you asked me don't go Mesmer get nerfed alot for no reason oftenly.

    But really open world isnt hard you can get by with well time rolls and your auto attack 99% of the time the other1% you'll have to throw in a skill or heal.

    While it's true mesmer has been nerfed repeatedly, it's still an amazing choice for casual open world play and would not be a bad option for someone looking for a build that is not really optimized for anything in particular, but can handle a lot of situations well without drastically changing its playstyle. This is what I think the OP is looking for in a build and why I recommend a condi mirage PvP-inspired build.

    It's not going to compete with specialized builds (i.e. meta builds for fractals/raids), but if you want solid damage paired with god tier survivability for open world/story content, it's a good option. How solid is "solid" damage? Good enough, for example, to beat the split (Echoes of the Unclean) in Siax the Corrupted T4 Nightmare challenge mode. And yet, tanky enough to solo many legendary bounties. Multi-purpose.

    Any class can do t4s any class can do T4 cm and get LNHB.
    No one gets nerfed like mesmers do.
    Every class can do open world bosses and solo legendaries.
    Not one gets nerfed like mesmers do.

    I am a mesmer main with the works and i can tell you the pain and suffering i have gone thru with these nerf wasn't worth it i'm just really stubborn. I have been playing since vanilla gw2. I'm merely warning of the pitch forks that mesmers always seems to get i did say he can play any class in PvE and he's gonna get a billion tomes but my god the ups and downs mesmer has gone through is like no other class.

    For those on the forums who advocate for the removal of duo queues in Spvp, realize your actions over the past 7 years has destroyed gw2 Spvp and thinking doing the same thing again is a good idea after several years of it not working crazy. Get better at pvp.

  • Thank you everyone for your thoughts.

    If I were to rate myself, I'd would say I'm average at best at this sort of thing. My reflexes aren't the greatest and sometimes I don't see the red rings or react in time. I'm okay at kiting, mostly out of necessity than any real skill, but that of course can lead to other issues, such as more mobs joining the fight.

    No idea how difficult this champion is, but the other day I was in (ratz, can't remember the zone name with Teq) and I stumbled upon a champion troll on the eastern side of the map. My Ele went crazy. I was switching constantly and trying to defeat the thing. It's break bar barely moved, so I have no idea what I'm doing wrong there and the thing killed me at 22% after frantically trying to dodge and deal with everything. It seems like I should be able to beat that sort of thing but I don't know. As I said, I'm average skill at best.

    Would my Mesmer have beaten it? Who knows, it disappeared after I ressed and I was so annoyed I left the map and exited the game.

    Lately, I've found a lack of interest in playing this as I haven't made a definitive choice yet.

    Also, I don't have access to Trailblazers or Plague Doctor, so condi builds probably aren't going to work right now. Something for later perhaps.

    I suspect I'll be switching over to Mesmer though, if nothing else because both elites and core are all things I can deal with. Weaver and it's constant switching, not so much.

  • I play Condi Mirage and love it. Plenty of evasion and melts stuff fast. Surrounded by mobs? Mirage cloak and spit out axes. I use Viper gear and axe/axe and staff. Staff is nice for tagging in events and has extra dodges for when I need to get away. I've soloed all through core, LW2, HoT, LW3, PoF, LW4, and now IBS with very little trouble.

  • Cool.

    That's what I need, something that can live, look pretty and is fun to play. The Elementalist is neat with its fire, lightning, earth and water but it seems like it's weaker (offensively) and squishier (defensively) than the Mesmer. Of course, that has more to do with Tempest I suppose than if were a Weaver. It's also been awhile since I've really played my Mesmer so I could be misremembering or just trying to convince myself so I can move on as well.

    After posting my last message, I looked at the inexpensive condi geared Mirage the link/video showed and was surprised at how well it seemed to do. I rarely saw the health globe move even though the person was standing in stuff with and without shifts. This while never appearing to actually use any of the signets in their utility slots. Maybe I missed an activation, but I don't think so.

    As I recall, Viper's is horrible to craft because of the oiled thing, but at least it would be possible at this point in time for me. I haven't done enough HoT masteries to buy the Trailblazer recipes and I don't know where to get Plague Doctor though a simple search would likely tell me.

    Is there a ranged condi build? I've never really liked melee all that much which is why I love Greatsword on a power orientated Mesmer.

    Oh wait, Staff. Are there any other or should I run two staves for a ranged condi Mirage?

  • AliamRationem.5172AliamRationem.5172 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Jenny.4831 said:
    Thank you everyone for your thoughts.

    If I were to rate myself, I'd would say I'm average at best at this sort of thing. My reflexes aren't the greatest and sometimes I don't see the red rings or react in time. I'm okay at kiting, mostly out of necessity than any real skill, but that of course can lead to other issues, such as more mobs joining the fight.

    No idea how difficult this champion is, but the other day I was in (ratz, can't remember the zone name with Teq) and I stumbled upon a champion troll on the eastern side of the map. My Ele went crazy. I was switching constantly and trying to defeat the thing. It's break bar barely moved, so I have no idea what I'm doing wrong there and the thing killed me at 22% after frantically trying to dodge and deal with everything. It seems like I should be able to beat that sort of thing but I don't know. As I said, I'm average skill at best.

    Would my Mesmer have beaten it? Who knows, it disappeared after I ressed and I was so annoyed I left the map and exited the game.

    Lately, I've found a lack of interest in playing this as I haven't made a definitive choice yet.

    Also, I don't have access to Trailblazers or Plague Doctor, so condi builds probably aren't going to work right now. Something for later perhaps.

    I suspect I'll be switching over to Mesmer though, if nothing else because both elites and core are all things I can deal with. Weaver and it's constant switching, not so much.

    I put a lot of information out there (Translation: I talk too much!). But if you read a little further into my post, I shared a build link and video (it was the last video I shared) for an alternative mesmer build that uses some of the least expensive gear available and requires literally no skill or knowledge to play. Just dodge, auto attack, win. It's that simple.

    Feel free to add complexity to taste, of course. But the build in this state is more than capable of handling many champions and you should be able to dominate anything less than that effortlessly.

    Here's the build link again: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vhAQFAWnsICNohVoBeoBMrhlZjyv+3//3sC2tWqMAutkB-jByCwAAeAAv0BARJoP1fCcBAaq8T4+DGM/RKgqEtB-e

  • @Jenny.4831 said:
    Cool.

    That's what I need, something that can live, look pretty and is fun to play. The Elementalist is neat with its fire, lightning, earth and water but it seems like it's weaker (offensively) and squishier (defensively) than the Mesmer. Of course, that has more to do with Tempest I suppose than if were a Weaver. It's also been awhile since I've really played my Mesmer so I could be misremembering or just trying to convince myself so I can move on as well.

    After posting my last message, I looked at the inexpensive condi geared Mirage the link/video showed and was surprised at how well it seemed to do. I rarely saw the health globe move even though the person was standing in stuff with and without shifts. This while never appearing to actually use any of the signets in their utility slots. Maybe I missed an activation, but I don't think so.

    As I recall, Viper's is horrible to craft because of the oiled thing, but at least it would be possible at this point in time for me. I haven't done enough HoT masteries to buy the Trailblazer recipes and I don't know where to get Plague Doctor though a simple search would likely tell me.

    Is there a ranged condi build? I've never really liked melee all that much which is why I love Greatsword on a power orientated Mesmer.

    Oh wait, Staff. Are there any other or should I run two staves for a ranged condi Mirage?

    Look on metabattle for a staff/staff build. I actually combine the staff/staff and axe/axe builds because I prefer to have a melee and ranged option. There is also an economy armor set mentioned there as well until you can get Vipers. 😊

  • Khisanth.2948Khisanth.2948 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Jenny.4831 said:
    As I recall, Viper's is horrible to craft because of the oiled thing

    that sounds several years out of date

  • @Jenny.4831 said:
    Also, I don't have access to Trailblazers or Plague Doctor, so condi builds probably aren't going to work right now. Something for later perhaps.

    You can craft exotic Warbeast armor, which is stat-selectable. An entire set is less than 100gold. For trinkets, well, using laurels or volatile/unbound magic is the way to ascended stat-selectable versions.

  • Khisanth.2948Khisanth.2948 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @TheAgedGnome.7520 said:

    @Jenny.4831 said:
    Also, I don't have access to Trailblazers or Plague Doctor, so condi builds probably aren't going to work right now. Something for later perhaps.

    You can craft exotic Warbeast armor, which is stat-selectable. An entire set is less than 100gold. For trinkets, well, using laurels or volatile/unbound magic is the way to ascended stat-selectable versions.

    or you buy 5 out of 6 pieces from VB for only 1g each plus a bit of airship parts ...

  • Irensaga.6935Irensaga.6935 Member ✭✭✭

    Well, I did actually craft a set of Viper's armor recently, and I don't recall it being particularly cheap.

  • Would Viper's even be a good set for a Mesmer? I mean it's power, precision, condi damage and expertise, so it's trying to do a power build and a condi build at the same time. I figure that might work for an Elementalist or Guardian, but I'm not sure about Mesmer but then that's why I'm asking.

    If Viper's is a good choice, how much of it is ideal? Armor, Weapons, Trinkets or only some of those and a mix of other things?

    I only have about 300 gold right now and I really don't want to put any more real money into it, though I suppose $20 could get me another 500g or something. $20 is a lot easier to get, but if I'm not doing expensive crafting, I don't really need it for anything except as a cushion.

  • aspirine.6852aspirine.6852 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Jenny.4831 said:
    Would Viper's even be a good set for a Mesmer? I mean it's power, precision, condi damage and expertise, so it's trying to do a power build and a condi build at the same time. I figure that might work for an Elementalist or Guardian, but I'm not sure about Mesmer but then that's why I'm asking.

    If Viper's is a good choice, how much of it is ideal? Armor, Weapons, Trinkets or only some of those and a mix of other things?

    I only have about 300 gold right now and I really don't want to put any more real money into it, though I suppose $20 could get me another 500g or something. $20 is a lot easier to get, but if I'm not doing expensive crafting, I don't really need it for anything except as a cushion.

    I got my memser from AliamRationem who posted above. If I remeber correcly vipers was either the best or a very good option to gear. And I finished everything with my mesmer after that. And I never played mesmer before that. :)

  • Vayne.8563Vayne.8563 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I'd take the mesmer because it's an iconic Guild Wars 2 class, that most games don't have. I mean almost every game has an elementalist which is a bog standard mage. Fire. LIghtning. I'd rather play something more unique.

    I also think that with the big balance patch coming at the end of this month or maybe early next month, you can't depend on any current build. It's all going to change, so you might want to wait and see. But my money is still going to be on mesmer.

  • Khisanth.2948Khisanth.2948 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Jenny.4831 said:
    Would Viper's even be a good set for a Mesmer? I mean it's power, precision, condi damage and expertise, so it's trying to do a power build and a condi build at the same time. I figure that might work for an Elementalist or Guardian, but I'm not sure about Mesmer but then that's why I'm asking.

    If Viper's is a good choice, how much of it is ideal? Armor, Weapons, Trinkets or only some of those and a mix of other things?

    I only have about 300 gold right now and I really don't want to put any more real money into it, though I suppose $20 could get me another 500g or something. $20 is a lot easier to get, but if I'm not doing expensive crafting, I don't really need it for anything except as a cushion.

    Viper's is basically the best choice for anything going for highest condi damage in the same way that berserker is best for highest power damage. As for how many pieces that depends on where you want to be on the spectrum of offense and defense. The power in there isn't really an issue because everything will still have a physical/power component(or they should, not having that leads to broken stuff in PvP/WvW). That aside if you play in the core game you'll want to have some power anyway since there are stuff that are just immune to conditions.

    A set of exotic viper's(or any stat since it is stat selectable) armor is 5g(everything except the coat from the itzel mastery vendor) + ~7g(crafted coat). Weapon you could just get rabid. You can get ascended stat selectable trinkets from LS3, LS4, LS5/Ice Brood Saga(only amulet and accessory so far). You could also replace that coat with any other condition oriented stat losing roughly 4% damage.

    @Vayne.8563 said:
    I'd take the mesmer because it's an iconic Guild Wars 2 class, that most games don't have. I mean almost every game has an elementalist which is a bog standard mage. Fire. LIghtning. I'd rather play something more unique.

    I also think that with the big balance patch coming at the end of this month or maybe early next month, you can't depend on any current build. It's all going to change, so you might want to wait and see. But my money is still going to be on mesmer.

    That patch is mainly for PvP/WvW stuff. There is very little impact for PvE.

  • Vayne.8563Vayne.8563 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Khisanth.2948 said:

    @Jenny.4831 said:
    Would Viper's even be a good set for a Mesmer? I mean it's power, precision, condi damage and expertise, so it's trying to do a power build and a condi build at the same time. I figure that might work for an Elementalist or Guardian, but I'm not sure about Mesmer but then that's why I'm asking.

    If Viper's is a good choice, how much of it is ideal? Armor, Weapons, Trinkets or only some of those and a mix of other things?

    I only have about 300 gold right now and I really don't want to put any more real money into it, though I suppose $20 could get me another 500g or something. $20 is a lot easier to get, but if I'm not doing expensive crafting, I don't really need it for anything except as a cushion.

    Viper's is basically the best choice for anything going for highest condi damage in the same way that berserker is best for highest power damage. As for how many pieces that depends on where you want to be on the spectrum of offense and defense. The power in there isn't really an issue because everything will still have a physical/power component(or they should, not having that leads to broken stuff in PvP/WvW). That aside if you play in the core game you'll want to have some power anyway since there are stuff that are just immune to conditions.

    A set of exotic viper's(or any stat since it is stat selectable) armor is 5g(everything except the coat from the itzel mastery vendor) + ~7g(crafted coat). Weapon you could just get rabid. You can get ascended stat selectable trinkets from LS3, LS4, LS5/Ice Brood Saga(only amulet and accessory so far). You could also replace that coat with any other condition oriented stat losing roughly 4% damage.

    @Vayne.8563 said:
    I'd take the mesmer because it's an iconic Guild Wars 2 class, that most games don't have. I mean almost every game has an elementalist which is a bog standard mage. Fire. LIghtning. I'd rather play something more unique.

    I also think that with the big balance patch coming at the end of this month or maybe early next month, you can't depend on any current build. It's all going to change, so you might want to wait and see. But my money is still going to be on mesmer.

    That patch is mainly for PvP/WvW stuff. There is very little impact for PvE.

    I wouldn't say that. There's some impact surely. With my mesmer, I often start fights with my great sword 4 skills, which now cripples, but will instead remove boons. That makes a fairly significant difference, at least to me. There are surely not as many changes coming to PvE, but that's not to say things won't change. Comparatively you're right, but I until I see the patch I'll reserve judgement.

  • aspirine.6852aspirine.6852 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Vayne.8563 said:

    @Khisanth.2948 said:

    @Jenny.4831 said:
    Would Viper's even be a good set for a Mesmer? I mean it's power, precision, condi damage and expertise, so it's trying to do a power build and a condi build at the same time. I figure that might work for an Elementalist or Guardian, but I'm not sure about Mesmer but then that's why I'm asking.

    If Viper's is a good choice, how much of it is ideal? Armor, Weapons, Trinkets or only some of those and a mix of other things?

    I only have about 300 gold right now and I really don't want to put any more real money into it, though I suppose $20 could get me another 500g or something. $20 is a lot easier to get, but if I'm not doing expensive crafting, I don't really need it for anything except as a cushion.

    Viper's is basically the best choice for anything going for highest condi damage in the same way that berserker is best for highest power damage. As for how many pieces that depends on where you want to be on the spectrum of offense and defense. The power in there isn't really an issue because everything will still have a physical/power component(or they should, not having that leads to broken stuff in PvP/WvW). That aside if you play in the core game you'll want to have some power anyway since there are stuff that are just immune to conditions.

    A set of exotic viper's(or any stat since it is stat selectable) armor is 5g(everything except the coat from the itzel mastery vendor) + ~7g(crafted coat). Weapon you could just get rabid. You can get ascended stat selectable trinkets from LS3, LS4, LS5/Ice Brood Saga(only amulet and accessory so far). You could also replace that coat with any other condition oriented stat losing roughly 4% damage.

    @Vayne.8563 said:
    I'd take the mesmer because it's an iconic Guild Wars 2 class, that most games don't have. I mean almost every game has an elementalist which is a bog standard mage. Fire. LIghtning. I'd rather play something more unique.

    I also think that with the big balance patch coming at the end of this month or maybe early next month, you can't depend on any current build. It's all going to change, so you might want to wait and see. But my money is still going to be on mesmer.

    That patch is mainly for PvP/WvW stuff. There is very little impact for PvE.

    I wouldn't say that. There's some impact surely. With my mesmer, I often start fights with my great sword 4 skills, which now cripples, but will instead remove boons. That makes a fairly significant difference, at least to me. There are surely not as many changes coming to PvE, but that's not to say things won't change. Comparatively you're right, but I until I see the patch I'll reserve judgement.

    Will it remove boons also in pve? That sounds rather useless.

  • Vayne.8563Vayne.8563 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @aspirine.6852 said:

    @Vayne.8563 said:

    @Khisanth.2948 said:

    @Jenny.4831 said:
    Would Viper's even be a good set for a Mesmer? I mean it's power, precision, condi damage and expertise, so it's trying to do a power build and a condi build at the same time. I figure that might work for an Elementalist or Guardian, but I'm not sure about Mesmer but then that's why I'm asking.

    If Viper's is a good choice, how much of it is ideal? Armor, Weapons, Trinkets or only some of those and a mix of other things?

    I only have about 300 gold right now and I really don't want to put any more real money into it, though I suppose $20 could get me another 500g or something. $20 is a lot easier to get, but if I'm not doing expensive crafting, I don't really need it for anything except as a cushion.

    Viper's is basically the best choice for anything going for highest condi damage in the same way that berserker is best for highest power damage. As for how many pieces that depends on where you want to be on the spectrum of offense and defense. The power in there isn't really an issue because everything will still have a physical/power component(or they should, not having that leads to broken stuff in PvP/WvW). That aside if you play in the core game you'll want to have some power anyway since there are stuff that are just immune to conditions.

    A set of exotic viper's(or any stat since it is stat selectable) armor is 5g(everything except the coat from the itzel mastery vendor) + ~7g(crafted coat). Weapon you could just get rabid. You can get ascended stat selectable trinkets from LS3, LS4, LS5/Ice Brood Saga(only amulet and accessory so far). You could also replace that coat with any other condition oriented stat losing roughly 4% damage.

    @Vayne.8563 said:
    I'd take the mesmer because it's an iconic Guild Wars 2 class, that most games don't have. I mean almost every game has an elementalist which is a bog standard mage. Fire. LIghtning. I'd rather play something more unique.

    I also think that with the big balance patch coming at the end of this month or maybe early next month, you can't depend on any current build. It's all going to change, so you might want to wait and see. But my money is still going to be on mesmer.

    That patch is mainly for PvP/WvW stuff. There is very little impact for PvE.

    I wouldn't say that. There's some impact surely. With my mesmer, I often start fights with my great sword 4 skills, which now cripples, but will instead remove boons. That makes a fairly significant difference, at least to me. There are surely not as many changes coming to PvE, but that's not to say things won't change. Comparatively you're right, but I until I see the patch I'll reserve judgement.

    Will it remove boons also in pve? That sounds rather useless.

    There are bosses and fractals and stuff like that where it's not. Removing boons in fractals with certain instabilities is a must and I'd surely have that weapon on for that fractal, but I agree, for open world stuff it's sorta meh.

  • Khisanth.2948Khisanth.2948 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @aspirine.6852 said:
    Will it remove boons also in pve? That sounds rather useless.

    That depends. Open world? Probably. Definitely has uses in fractal. It also synergize with the new trait that increases damage against enemies without boons meaning it will be up 100% of the time in some PvE areas.

  • Thank you everyone for responding to my little "what should I play" post. I know these things are common which is why I was hesitant to even write it in the first place. I looked through other Mesmer v Elementalist posts but nothing seemed to quite match up with my own situation.

    After thinking about this for a couple of weeks, I've decided I'm going to focus on my Mesmer. I just hope the upcoming patch doesn't wreck it, but then I hope no class/spec gets wrecked by it. No fun to invest quite a bit of time, effort and money into something that suddenly becomes a burden or downright useless due to the Anet's 'balancing' efforts.

    I think in light of this decision, I'm going to start from scratch and enjoy the journey through the game.

    With that in mind, all of my characters can have 4 professions and was thinking of: Weaponsmithing, Tailoring, Artificer, and ?

    Until they raise Jewel Crafting to 500 it seems useless since we can get ascended jewelry from vendors. Chef? Not sure how to go about making ascended recipes and the like. Still, it would probably be more useful than JC right now.