8/27/2019 Patch - Thank God Holosmith Was Addressed

[Leonidrex.5649]

@Vagrant.7206 said:

@toxic.3648 said:

@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:I have been playing a lot of Thief this season right. 9 out of 10 times I die to a Holosmith, it's because I am already kiting 200 range or so away from the Holosmith, and then I go to Shadowstep. When I Shadowstep away at maximum 1200 distance when I was already 200 range away from the Holosmith, I'll hear a Holographic Shockwave sound effect and somehow get clipped by it at 1400 range away from the Holosmith, when the tooltip says it's only supposed to go 600 range. And this isn't lag, it's bugged range.probably get clipped mid teleport(no idea how that even works) but ive never used holo 5 and cc'ed someone 1400 range away with them just standing there and no teleport being involved

It happens with other CC's as well. I've hit thieves with overcharged shot and thumper turret when their infiltrator's arrow was in the air, but before they teleported. The result is the teleport completes, but they're still CC'ed at the end of it. While it's most common with infiltrator's arrow, I have seen other teleports have similar problems, especially if the teleport is not considered a stunbreak.

with teleport thats reasonable, becouse arrow is midair when you get hit, when it arrives you get teleported ( but still get hit becouse it connects before arrow lands )whats not reasonable is having insta teleport that removes cc, teleport you and THEN you get hit, its not AFTER you got hit since it would remove the CC. meaning its bugged.

[Mbelch.9028]

@Vagrant.7206 said:

@praqtos.9035 said:

@"Crab Fear.1624" said:I don't think we are complaining about a bug.Holo is overpowered and we have been waiting 2 years for devs to bring it down...normalize it.Pretty muchDamage, sustain, mobility. (S+ class) regardless of any "wink wink" nerfs.Barely had any unlike other classes

Do you really want another list again of all the different nerfs holo has gotten? Lol, it's been repeated like 20 times by now, and the only "true" buffs it has gotten were combo finishers.

Thank you for continuing to pick up the torch long after many of us have gotten too tired.

@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

@Mbelch.9028 said:Ok -- there's a range bug. So why not ask for the range bug to be fixed? What's this whole thread about.

Discussion on and requests to fix Holographic Shockwave is probably one of the top 3 most frequently mentioned topics in this subforum. I'm sure Arenanet is already well aware of the community's opinions & requests on that particular topic.

This thread was simply to stress my own personal disdain towards certain patching decisions, and to perk discussion about it. Holographic Shockwave was only brought up as an example to show how silly it is to squander development time fixing nearly invisible bugs that no one notices, while completely ignoring game breaking bugs for years on end.

In truth, there is a lot about Holosmith that needs fixing. I don't expect a big balance patch to happen during a bug fix patch, but as the consumer I certainly expect important bugs to be paid attention to during a bug fix patch.

You know that's not true lol. The most discussed topics are about mesmers. There's a focus on Holo right now because it's overperforming without a mesmer spec to beat it down.

Holosmith has gotten repeated nerfs, and it will likely continue to receive them.

If you're as unhappy with the game/balance as the rest of us, do what the rest of us do. Seal your wallet and close the game.

[Vagrant.7206]

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Vagrant.7206 said:

@toxic.3648 said:

@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:I have been playing a lot of Thief this season right. 9 out of 10 times I die to a Holosmith, it's because I am already kiting 200 range or so away from the Holosmith, and then I go to Shadowstep. When I Shadowstep away at maximum 1200 distance when I was already 200 range away from the Holosmith, I'll hear a Holographic Shockwave sound effect and somehow get clipped by it at 1400 range away from the Holosmith, when the tooltip says it's only supposed to go 600 range. And this isn't lag, it's bugged range.probably get clipped mid teleport(no idea how that even works) but ive never used holo 5 and cc'ed someone 1400 range away with them just standing there and no teleport being involved

It happens with other CC's as well. I've hit thieves with overcharged shot and thumper turret when their infiltrator's arrow was in the air, but before they teleported. The result is the teleport completes, but they're still CC'ed at the end of it. While it's most common with infiltrator's arrow, I have seen other teleports have similar problems, especially if the teleport is not considered a stunbreak.

with teleport thats reasonable, becouse arrow is midair when you get hit, when it arrives you get teleported ( but still get hit becouse it connects before arrow lands )whats not reasonable is having insta teleport that removes cc, teleport you and THEN you get hit, its not AFTER you got hit since it would remove the CC. meaning its bugged.

That's likely an order-of-events error then -- the stunbreak procs when you activate the skill, the CC hits, then you teleport (this process happens in less than a quarter of a second). The only thing that could fix this would be if the stunbreak proc'd at the end of the teleport, instead of the beginning when you cast the skill. However, like I said, this is not a problem unique to HS -- it's common to all CCs.

@Mbelch.9028 said:

@Vagrant.7206 said:

@praqtos.9035 said:

@"Crab Fear.1624" said:I don't think we are complaining about a bug.Holo is overpowered and we have been waiting 2 years for devs to bring it down...normalize it.Pretty muchDamage, sustain, mobility. (S+ class) regardless of any "wink wink" nerfs.Barely had any unlike other classes

Do you really want another list again of all the different nerfs holo has gotten? Lol, it's been repeated like 20 times by now, and the only "true" buffs it has gotten were combo finishers.

Thank you for continuing to pick up the torch long after many of us have gotten too tired.

Ah yeah, I'm aware of the fatigue too. Considering the outcry over the temporary disabling of CI (but not the gutting of scrapper) there's not many of us around to pass the torch to.

[Aeolus.3615]

@Vagrant.7206 said:

@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

Profession Skills

Engineer

• Jump Shot: Fixed a bug that prevented this skill from applying its listed vulnerability stacks.

Nobody else got balance. Scrapper is still in the can.

Scrapper changes made scrapper to tanky and broken in some game modes, what is strange is Anet could just manage the barrier gain cause the gameplay of it was decent and many players liked it, then they went changing again w/o understanding what really trade off meant...

Now is just meh..

[Crab Fear.1624]

The thread is not about a bug.

He is pointing out that many players (that do not play holosmith) are not satisfied with the over-capabilities of the class.

Some of you are trying to steer the thread in that direction.

By the way how much and how fast can a holosmith build up vuln on a player?

[Vagrant.7206]

@Crab Fear.1624 said:The thread is not about a bug.

He is pointing out that many players (that do not play holosmith) are not satisfied with the over-capabilities of the class.

Some of you are trying to steer the thread in that direction.

By the way how much and how fast can a holosmith build up vuln on a player?

... the thread is about a hotfix. Not a balance patch. Hotfixes are meant for bugs, or stupid OP broken stuff. They are not meant for larger balance patches.

[Crab Fear.1624]

@Vagrant.7206 said:

@Crab Fear.1624 said:The thread is not about a bug.

He is pointing out that many players (that do not play holosmith) are not satisfied with the over-capabilities of the class.

Some of you are trying to steer the thread in that direction.

By the way how much and how fast can a holosmith build up vuln on a player?

... the thread is about a hotfix. Not a balance patch. Hotfixes are meant for bugs, or stupid OP broken stuff. They are not meant for larger balance patches.

No.

He expected to see changes to holosmith, not a hotfix.

Holo needs more than a hotfix.

I'm gonna go to my thread and come back and copy paste the list.

here it is:

Great healinggreat armorgreat mobilitygreat damageinvulnstealthboon fart extraordinairemulti foe sustainabilityunblockableblockssuperspeed stability and stability accessmega might stackingThey are also CC machines.oh and then they got photon forge

This is what we are looking at.

[Vagrant.7206]

@Crab Fear.1624 said:

@Vagrant.7206 said:

@Crab Fear.1624 said:The thread is not about a bug.

He is pointing out that many players (that do not play holosmith) are not satisfied with the over-capabilities of the class.

Some of you are trying to steer the thread in that direction.

By the way how much and how fast can a holosmith build up vuln on a player?

... the thread is about a hotfix. Not a balance patch. Hotfixes are meant for bugs, or stupid OP broken stuff. They are not meant for larger balance patches.

No.

He expected to see changes to holosmith, not a hotfix.

Holo needs more than a hotfix.

I'm gonna go to my thread and come back and copy paste the list.

here it is:

I'm a little teapot bloody and cutHere is my handle, here is my butt

This is what we are looking at.

If it needs more than a hotfix, why complain about this specific patch? Nobody got balanced here.

Yeah, that's a great list you got going right there. The best list, really. It's a really amazing list. Stupendous. The media wouldn't tell you this, but you got the best lists.

[Crab Fear.1624]

@Vagrant.7206 said:

@Crab Fear.1624 said:

@Vagrant.7206 said:

@Crab Fear.1624 said:The thread is not about a bug.

He is pointing out that many players (that do not play holosmith) are not satisfied with the over-capabilities of the class.

Some of you are trying to steer the thread in that direction.

By the way how much and how fast can a holosmith build up vuln on a player?

... the thread is about a hotfix. Not a balance patch. Hotfixes are meant for bugs, or stupid OP broken stuff. They are not meant for larger balance patches.

No.

He expected to see changes to holosmith, not a hotfix.

Holo needs more than a hotfix.

I'm gonna go to my thread and come back and copy paste the list.

here it is:

I'm a little teapot bloody and cutHere is my handle, here is my butt

This is what we are looking at.

If it needs more than a hotfix, why complain about this specific patch? Nobody got balanced here.

Yeah, that's a great list you got going right there. The best list, really. It's a really amazing list. Stupendous. The media wouldn't tell you this, but you got the best lists.

Thanks for the bump to the thread.

I don't have to say anything.

[Math.5123]

@Vagrant.7206 said:

@Crab Fear.1624 said:

@Vagrant.7206 said:

@Crab Fear.1624 said:The thread is not about a bug.

He is pointing out that many players (that do not play holosmith) are not satisfied with the over-capabilities of the class.

Some of you are trying to steer the thread in that direction.

By the way how much and how fast can a holosmith build up vuln on a player?

... the thread is about a hotfix. Not a balance patch. Hotfixes are meant for bugs, or stupid OP broken stuff. They are not meant for larger balance patches.

No.

He expected to see changes to holosmith, not a hotfix.

Holo needs more than a hotfix.

I'm gonna go to my thread and come back and copy paste the list.

here it is:

I'm a little teapot bloody and cutHere is my handle, here is my butt

This is what we are looking at.

If it needs more than a hotfix, why complain about this specific patch? Nobody got balanced here.

Yeah, that's a great list you got going right there. The best list, really. It's a really amazing list. Stupendous. The media wouldn't tell you this, but you got the best lists.

I've been digging through some of your posts about Holo recently, and the amount of hoops you go through to defend the class is actually insane.What got me was that you didn't want to normalize the auto range to 130 because the animation appears to be longer.

With this reasoning, should we just go ahead and increase reaper autos to 450 range? People using the charr bazooka (which clearly has an enormous pipe) having an extra 1000 range on all their abilities. Making people use Belinda's greatsword, which should use a slashing animation weaker against plate armor skins, while decimating cloth skins?You see how insane this is starting to get?

Also, fun fact. Third auto of the chain with no might stacks has 18% less damage than mighty blow. On 25 might it has the same damage.

I get that you don't want your class to be nerfed, it sucks (core guard main when I still played the game). But I know, even if core guard was never OP, it was obnoxious. It was also insanely carried by RI in radiance.

Holo is another beast completely. They have so many traits that are straight up overpowered. To list a few I would see toned down are:Prismatic converter: rework to remove 1 Condi when leaving forge, if above 75% heat convert it.Hidden flask: straight up halve all the boons, have it proc at 50%.Compounding chemicals: remove the concentration.Heat therapy: massively nerf the healing. Make it scale with healing power.Elixir S: reduce stealth by half.

This will still make them have their might, burst potential but will be less durable. I know I'm touching core engineer to nerf holosmith, but alchemy is extremely overtuned as it stands.

[praqtos.9035]

@Vagrant.7206 said:

@praqtos.9035 said:

@Vagrant.7206 said:

@praqtos.9035 said:

@"Crab Fear.1624" said:I don't think we are complaining about a bug.Holo is overpowered and we have been waiting 2 years for devs to bring it down...normalize it.Pretty muchDamage, sustain, mobility. (S+ class) regardless of any "wink wink" nerfs.Barely had any unlike other classes

Do you really want another list again of all the different nerfs holo has gotten? Lol, it's been repeated like 20 times by now, and the only "true" buffs it has gotten were combo finishers.The only good nerf on holo was a stability nerf on corona burst, the rest was nothing and didnt adress the issues with holosmith. Its damage for its sustain and how spammy it is. Might as well make a thread based on my previous post. (I wonder how did you skip it)

There's been a substantial number of other nerfs to its damage and survival capabilities, including nerfs to core engineer. That you choose to ignore them is your prerogative, not mine.IF it has "substantial" number of nerfs it wouldnt be busted at damage/survivability.What they nerfed is super busted holo utilities at first ? Holo stab? Degenerate build with mines that killed ppl unarmed? Where the nerfs its deserve now?Like vent exhaust/HT/converter werent touched ever... Sooner or later they would.

@praqtos.9035 said:

@Vagrant.7206 said:Also, not addressing your other post, largely because you're still trying to put words in my mouth and try to get a rise out of me. Frankly, it's not ok.Except I didnt, said what happened aldy and getting tired of biased/mad ppl screaming "mesma main". Report this post too btw

Take it how you will, but you did come onto a thread about engineer, and try to make it about mesmer.It was about holo but you felt urge to turn pvp thread into pve whine about scrapper, never tried to make it about mesmer,that was you and another "engi main" that tried to make it about mesmer. I could talk about mesmer but this make no sense, just as your hate towards me/mesmers and nonsense that you spewing how long some class was bad so then others must be in even worse state. Get a grip or something.

[Vagrant.7206]

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@Vagrant.7206 said:

@Crab Fear.1624 said:

@Vagrant.7206 said:

@Crab Fear.1624 said:The thread is not about a bug.

He is pointing out that many players (that do not play holosmith) are not satisfied with the over-capabilities of the class.

Some of you are trying to steer the thread in that direction.

By the way how much and how fast can a holosmith build up vuln on a player?

... the thread is about a hotfix. Not a balance patch. Hotfixes are meant for bugs, or stupid OP broken stuff. They are not meant for larger balance patches.

No.

He expected to see changes to holosmith, not a hotfix.

Holo needs more than a hotfix.

I'm gonna go to my thread and come back and copy paste the list.

here it is:

I'm a little teapot bloody and cutHere is my handle, here is my butt

This is what we are looking at.

If it needs more than a hotfix, why complain about this specific patch? Nobody got balanced here.

Yeah, that's a great list you got going right there. The best list, really. It's a really amazing list. Stupendous. The media wouldn't tell you this, but you got the best lists.

I've been digging through some of your posts about Holo recently, and the amount of hoops you go through to defend the class is actually insane.What got me was that you didn't want to normalize the auto range to 130 because

the animation appears to be longer

.

With this reasoning, should we just go ahead and increase reaper autos to 450 range? People using the charr bazooka (which clearly has an enormous pipe) having an extra 1000 range on all their abilities. Making people use Belinda's greatsword, which should use a slashing animation weaker against plate armor skins, while decimating cloth skins?You see how insane this is starting to get?

Sigh.

That's the simple answer I give because the long answer is a PITA. But here we go:

• All engineer autos are compared against Bomb. It's our most powerful autoattack skill on core engi, full stop.
• Bomb has 240 range (notice a "coincidence?") and does substantially more damage than the holo autoattack chain, except for the final auto of the chain. Compared to bomb auto, holo auto is roughly even in PvP.
• Lowering the auto range of forge also means that the animators would need to rerig the animation to match the attack. Otherwise you end up with just another elixir gun 3 issue, which has literally plagued core engineer since launch until about a month ago. The animation was double the length of the actual effect for 7 whole years, and made it frustrating to use. If it takes them that long to fix a single animation issue we've known about for years, I don't expect them to adjust it for holo either.

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:Also, fun fact. Third auto of the chain with no might stacks has 18% less damage than mighty blow. On 25 might it has the same damage.

Your point? It's the third auto in the chain, it's always the most powerful.

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:Holo is another beast completely. They have so many traits that are straight up overpowered. To list a few I would see toned down are:Prismatic converter: rework to remove 1 Condi when leaving forge, if above 75% heat convert it.Hidden flask: straight up halve all the boons, have it proc at 50%.Compounding chemicals: remove the concentration.Heat therapy: massively nerf the healing. Make it scale with healing power.Elixir S: reduce stealth by half.

This will still make them have their might, burst potential but will be less durable. I know I'm touching core engineer to nerf holosmith, but alchemy is extremely overtuned as it stands.

A few notes on your suggested nerfs:

• Elixir S is not a trait. Do you mean a nerf to HGH? Or just Throw Elixir S (which I assume is what you mean)?
• Why 75% heat on prismatic converter? All other holo skills and traits operate at 50% heat, with additional utility for some skills at 100% with ECSU. Otherwise ok with that change.
• Hidden flask fine. CD is short as is, makes sense
• Compounding chemicals -- umm, what? That's the main point of that trait. Even its predecessor had that effect.
• Heat therapy fine, I've been suggesting that for months now, nobody seems to listen

The weird thing is, besides heat therapy, I have an entirely different set of ideas on what traits are busted (in the OP sense). Ah well.

[Math.5123]

@Vagrant.7206 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@Vagrant.7206 said:

@Crab Fear.1624 said:

@Vagrant.7206 said:

@Crab Fear.1624 said:The thread is not about a bug.

He is pointing out that many players (that do not play holosmith) are not satisfied with the over-capabilities of the class.

Some of you are trying to steer the thread in that direction.

By the way how much and how fast can a holosmith build up vuln on a player?

... the thread is about a hotfix. Not a balance patch. Hotfixes are meant for bugs, or stupid OP broken stuff. They are not meant for larger balance patches.

No.

He expected to see changes to holosmith, not a hotfix.

Holo needs more than a hotfix.

I'm gonna go to my thread and come back and copy paste the list.

here it is:

I'm a little teapot bloody and cutHere is my handle, here is my butt

This is what we are looking at.

If it needs more than a hotfix, why complain about this specific patch? Nobody got balanced here.

Yeah, that's a great list you got going right there. The best list, really. It's a really amazing list. Stupendous. The media wouldn't tell you this, but you got the best lists.

I've been digging through some of your posts about Holo recently, and the amount of hoops you go through to defend the class is actually insane.What got me was that you didn't want to normalize the auto range to 130 because

the animation appears to be longer

.

With this reasoning, should we just go ahead and increase reaper autos to 450 range? People using the charr bazooka (which clearly has an enormous pipe) having an extra 1000 range on all their abilities. Making people use Belinda's greatsword, which should use a slashing animation weaker against plate armor skins, while decimating cloth skins?You see how insane this is starting to get?

Sigh.

That's the simple answer I give because the long answer is a PITA. But here we go:

• All engineer autos are compared against Bomb. It's our most powerful autoattack skill on core engi, full stop.

Sure, it's compared to it. By that logic all guard autos would be compared to scepter. The auto is great but the kit is weak. Much like the bomb kit.Why have an autoattack that competes as the best one, while also having all the other skills forge does? It's hands down comparable to rampage, not a class weapon.

• Bomb has 240 range (notice a "coincidence?") and does substantially more damage than the holo autoattack chain, except for the final auto of the chain. Compared to bomb auto, holo auto is roughly even in PvP.
• Lowering the auto range of forge also means that the animators would need to rerig the animation to match the attack. Otherwise you end up with just another elixir gun 3 issue, which has literally plagued core engineer since launch until about a month ago. The animation was double the length of the actual effect for 7 whole years, and made it frustrating to use. If it takes them that long to fix a single animation issue we've known about for years, I don't expect them to adjust it for holo either.

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:Also, fun fact. Third auto of the chain with no might stacks has 18% less damage than mighty blow. On 25 might it has the same damage.

Your point? It's the third auto in the chain, it's always the most powerful.

That it's too powerful.

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:Holo is another beast completely. They have so many traits that are straight up overpowered. To list a few I would see toned down are:Prismatic converter: rework to remove 1 Condi when leaving forge, if above 75% heat convert it.Hidden flask: straight up halve all the boons, have it proc at 50%.Compounding chemicals: remove the concentration.Heat therapy: massively nerf the healing. Make it scale with healing power.Elixir S: reduce stealth by half.

This will still make them have their might, burst potential but will be less durable. I know I'm touching core engineer to nerf holosmith, but alchemy is extremely overtuned as it stands.

A few notes on your suggested nerfs:

• Elixir S is not a trait. Do you mean a nerf to HGH? Or just Throw Elixir S (which I assume is what you mean)?

I know it's not a trait, and considering I explicitly said invis, I assumed you'd understand that.

• Why 75% heat on prismatic converter? All other holo skills and traits operate at 50% heat, with additional utility for some skills at 100% with ECSU. Otherwise ok with that change.

To make it harder to micromanage

• Compounding chemicals -- umm, what? That's the main point of that trait. Even its predecessor had that effect.

Then remove the heal. It's currently a better version of the guard grandmaster altruistic healing.

• Heat therapy fine, I've been suggesting that for months now, nobody seems to listen

The weird thing is, besides heat therapy, I have an entirely different set of ideas on what traits are busted (in the OP sense). Ah well.

[Vagrant.7206]

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@Vagrant.7206 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@Vagrant.7206 said:

@Crab Fear.1624 said:

@Vagrant.7206 said:

@Crab Fear.1624 said:The thread is not about a bug.

He is pointing out that many players (that do not play holosmith) are not satisfied with the over-capabilities of the class.

Some of you are trying to steer the thread in that direction.

By the way how much and how fast can a holosmith build up vuln on a player?

... the thread is about a hotfix. Not a balance patch. Hotfixes are meant for bugs, or stupid OP broken stuff. They are not meant for larger balance patches.

No.

He expected to see changes to holosmith, not a hotfix.

Holo needs more than a hotfix.

I'm gonna go to my thread and come back and copy paste the list.

here it is:

I'm a little teapot bloody and cutHere is my handle, here is my butt

This is what we are looking at.

If it needs more than a hotfix, why complain about this specific patch? Nobody got balanced here.

Yeah, that's a great list you got going right there. The best list, really. It's a really amazing list. Stupendous. The media wouldn't tell you this, but you got the best lists.

I've been digging through some of your posts about Holo recently, and the amount of hoops you go through to defend the class is actually insane.What got me was that you didn't want to normalize the auto range to 130 because

the animation appears to be longer

.

With this reasoning, should we just go ahead and increase reaper autos to 450 range? People using the charr bazooka (which clearly has an enormous pipe) having an extra 1000 range on all their abilities. Making people use Belinda's greatsword, which should use a slashing animation weaker against plate armor skins, while decimating cloth skins?You see how insane this is starting to get?

Sigh.

That's the simple answer I give because the long answer is a PITA. But here we go:

• All engineer autos are compared against Bomb. It's our most powerful autoattack skill on core engi, full stop.

Sure, it's compared to it. By that logic all guard autos would be compared to scepter. The auto is great but the kit is weak. Much like the bomb kit.Why have an autoattack that competes as the best one, while also having all the other skills forge does? It's hands down comparable to rampage, not a class weapon.

Because engineer doesn't have a weapon swap, and only has 3 core weapons. Kits are the closest things we have to weapon swaps. Kit swapping is something that every engineer build has done since the dawn of this game, and it can be done rapidly enough that many builds are based around kit swapping. These builds only use the most powerful skills in each kit, because there is no cooldown on kit swapping.

PF is essentially a better kit that we don't need to rapidly swap between.

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

• Bomb has 240 range (notice a "coincidence?") and does
  substantially more damage
  than the holo autoattack chain,
  except for the final auto of the chain.
  Compared to bomb auto, holo auto is roughly even in PvP.
• Lowering the auto range of forge also means that the animators would need to rerig the animation to match the attack. Otherwise you end up with just another
  elixir gun 3 issue
  , which has literally plagued core engineer since launch until about a month ago. The animation was double the length of the actual effect for 7 whole years, and made it frustrating to use. If it takes them that long to fix a single animation issue we've known about for years, I don't expect them to adjust it for holo either.

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:Also, fun fact. Third auto of the chain with no might stacks has 18% less damage than mighty blow. On 25 might it has the same damage.

Your point? It's the third auto in the chain, it's always the most powerful.

That it's too powerful.

The third auto in a chain is always the most powerful. Electro-whirl on scrapper is also powerful, but that doesn't make the entire hammer OP.

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:Holo is another beast completely. They have so many traits that are straight up overpowered. To list a few I would see toned down are:Prismatic converter: rework to remove 1 Condi when leaving forge, if above 75% heat convert it.Hidden flask: straight up halve all the boons, have it proc at 50%.Compounding chemicals: remove the concentration.Heat therapy: massively nerf the healing. Make it scale with healing power.Elixir S: reduce stealth by half.

This will still make them have their might, burst potential but will be less durable. I know I'm touching core engineer to nerf holosmith, but alchemy is extremely overtuned as it stands.

A few notes on your suggested nerfs:

• Elixir S is not a trait. Do you mean a nerf to HGH? Or just Throw Elixir S (which I assume is what you mean)?

I know it's not a trait, and considering I explicitly said invis, I assumed you'd understand that.

Hence, why I asked.

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

• Why 75% heat on prismatic converter? All other holo skills and traits operate at 50% heat, with additional utility for some skills at 100% with ECSU. Otherwise ok with that change.

To make it harder to micromanage

That makes no sense. It's inconsistent with the rest of the entire spec.

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

• Compounding chemicals -- umm, what? That's the main point of that trait. Even its predecessor had that effect.

Then remove the heal. It's currently a better version of the guard grandmaster altruistic healing.

Personally, I'd prefer its predecessor, but w/e. If this is where we draw the line, fine.

[ZhouX.8742]

comparing photon forge to rampage

i can't ... LOL

dodging 1 skill with a high telegraph will eliminate their stability and if they proc elixir going into photon forge anyway they're bad because they're wasting a long CD defensive for 1 PF combo, you literally can just cc them and counter half of their setup leaving them with no stab

these kids are so bad at pvp it's unbelievable

[Crab Fear.1624]

@ZhouX.8742 said:comparing photon forge to rampage

i can't ... LOL

dodging 1 skill with a high telegraph will eliminate their stability and if they proc elixir going into photon forge anyway they're bad because they're wasting a long CD defensive for 1 PF combo, you literally can just cc them and counter half of their setup leaving them with no stab

these kids are so bad at pvp it's unbelievable

Are you on the EU?