Institute GvG maps immediately.

[KeyOrion.9506]

@"Ubi.4136" said:There really is no point to adding a GvG map. Guilds don't want equal or balanced fights. They just want to win fights, all of them. And as server transfers have proven, by stacking and outnumbering their opponents. When that fails, avoiding other guilds or transferring to somewhere they CAN outnumber their opponent. Why do you think you see soo many guilds that can easily field 40-50 people in lower tiers. Because they don't have any opposition in the timezone they play in. They don't care about the score, they just want to pvdoor. (heh, that rhymes)

I didn't say a GvG map. I meant what I said. A completely GUILDWARS 1....GVG format. In the old days they had to fight in their own Guild Halls. That's the only map they need. They can have their own GvG rewards, their own GvG area, their very own GvG Lobby.

The lowest tiered servers after year three, began to "Duel", in WvW. They gave up the whole PPT. They gave up on winning in general as a matter of form for their server. They had literally reached a point where they "GvG'd". Things changed when certain Guilds switched servers, which threw the lower tiered servers out of wack and how they preferred to play.

Lets put it this way. When your Commanders start complaining about the MORNING CREW because the morning crew is PPT'ing...what is that about? When the Commanders during the evening start cursing, yelling, and just outright having a conniption fit because morning commanders are PPT'ing….is when some commanders don't WANT to win to move up OR down the tier? Then...again...I ask you....why even WvW. You want to sit at a certain tier...to do what? You don't want to challenge you or your teammates in a higher tier? Because your bored? Afraid? Or just plain ambivalent to the very idea of combat with certain teams you dislike because either it's going to be you doing an "overkill", or your the one's going to be slaughtered.

Do us all a favor. Recruit players from outside WvW. I barely see ANY of you recruit jack and squat in any major city or Lions Arch. You all complain that we're losing body's in wvw, and that is no lie. That's an absolute truth. Then again....who wants to show up to fight, when your commanders want to LOSE. There's a difference between going in to fight, and losing. And making sure you LOSE purposely. Who the hell wants to be on a team that purposely wants to lose. Hell if you were going to tell the team, hell lets just LOSE this week....why would I show up to WvW? Why would anyone show up to WvW to lose? "Well maybe we just want to fight and have fun..." THEN GET YOUR OWN DAMN GVG FORMAT AND BE DONE WITH IT!

[KeyOrion.9506]

@"Swamurabi.7890" said:

The reason why "fight guilds" and GVG grew was because:

1. Match results are pre-determined, unless a server chooses to tank
2. PPT game play is extremely boring for certain players.
3. Glicko hell kept the same servers facing each other week after week after week.........

No. 3 is no longer a problem, due to the loss of the player base in the last six months. I don't think we have to worry about that any longer.

[SWI.4127]

@KeyOrion.9506 said:

@cobbah.3102 said:

@Bristingr.5034 said:They already implemented a GvG map. Nobody uses it.

@KeyOrion.9506 said:But when commanders DO NOT CARE ABOUT WINNING.The reason we commanders don't try to win the weekly match ups because there's no incentive to do so. Oh, if we win we get to fight Blackgate? Why would ANY server want to win then?

Hmmm surprise surprise thats where you will get fights , no such thing as "fight " guilds they are a figment of peoples imaginations.

And the first 2 years, you were all complaining about going up in tier to fight Jade Quarry. There will be rise and falls of servers. Every empire ever known has never lasted forever. You'll grow, you'll expand. Then overconfidence creeps in, then laziness and boredom, or perhaps what drove you to get to the top will no longer matter. And then your empire slowly starts to recede or succumb in time to internal or external pressures. Every dog has its day.

Yeah sure, go T1 and burn yourself out trying to beat BG for...reasons? All that's going to do is burn people out like what happens every time someone tries it. Maybe you win a week or two, maybe BG even goes T2 for a week. Then everyone gets tired and the status quo returns. I'm not sure what you really want if you want all the fight guilds to leave the game mode. It's already happening without your suggestion.

[KeyOrion.9506]

And what the hell will BG fight then? The Skritt on the upper northwest of the Alpine map, or maybe the Centaur up in the Northeast quadrant. Because that's all that's left to fight once you take an entire map with no enemy players to show up.

[KeyOrion.9506]

@SWI.4127 said:

@KeyOrion.9506 said:

@cobbah.3102 said:

@Bristingr.5034 said:They already implemented a GvG map. Nobody uses it.

@KeyOrion.9506 said:But when commanders DO NOT CARE ABOUT WINNING.The reason we commanders don't try to win the weekly match ups because there's no incentive to do so. Oh, if we win we get to fight Blackgate? Why would ANY server want to win then?

Hmmm surprise surprise thats where you will get fights , no such thing as "fight " guilds they are a figment of peoples imaginations.

And the first 2 years, you were all complaining about going up in tier to fight Jade Quarry. There will be rise and falls of servers. Every empire ever known has never lasted forever. You'll grow, you'll expand. Then overconfidence creeps in, then laziness and boredom, or perhaps what drove you to get to the top will no longer matter. And then your empire slowly starts to recede or succumb in time to internal or external pressures. Every dog has its day.

Yeah sure, go T1 and burn yourself out trying to beat BG for...reasons? All that's going to do is burn people out like what happens every time someone tries it. Maybe you win a week or two, maybe BG even goes T2 for a week. Then everyone gets tired and the status quo returns. I'm not sure what you really want if you want all the fight guilds to leave the game mode. It's already happening without your suggestion.

"Lets just stay in the low tier, where we will never become challenged, grow ever bored even more, and just lament that there are no more worlds to conquer" <--- I'm sorry, but this is what my translation read you as saying.

[SWI.4127]

@"KeyOrion.9506" said:

"Lets just stay in the low tier, where we will never become challenged, grow ever bored even more, and just lament that there are no more worlds to conquer" <--- I'm sorry, but this is what my translation read you as saying.

Hmm don't remember saying that. If you accept the premise that fight guilds actually want good fights, then T1 is the SINGLE WORST place to get them. This is a fact if you look at activity numbers. There is demonstrably less action in T1 than any other tier. Yes, even T4. I looked at activity numbers one or two days ago, and the lowest 6 servers were T4, T4, T1, T1, T1, T4. Looking past just those numbers, BG also doesn't have any guilds left. So if you know there are less fights and no guilds to fight, why would a fight guild ever want to go T1? Please think about it from the perspective of a fight guild, don't just put words in my mouth again.

[KeyOrion.9506]

When there are no longer any worlds to conquer. When there is NOTHING left to fight, you will not see any fights. If these individual guilds wish to have nothing but fights, I think they'll be able to find it in a GvG format, if anet were to implimetn such a format. Those guilds that dont' want to wvw, that are mostly PvE, i'm more than sure they will sign on to such a format just to test themselves. And those guilds in WvW have ALL the fights they'd want. Because they would no longer be ALLIED to other large Guilds on the same server. They'd be forced to fight each other. So they'd all get what they wanted. Fights and Bags. They'd get what they want. And those left behind in WvW would get what they want. Players more interested in winning. So everyone would be HAPPY.

[KeyOrion.9506]

OH COME ON, fight Guilds, this is exactly what you wanted! You wanted to show who the best Guild was at FIGHTING, why aren't you clamoring away for a GvG format? I'd almost think you wanted that format! You said you wanted to have FUN and have FIGHTS....what possible more fun could you get out of WvW, that you couldn't get in a GvG format, specifically tailored to your taste of combat?

[Caliburn.1845]

We've asked for a GvG format since before GW2 was released. Why when WvW is suffering all the problems that come with a decreasing population and activity levels would we finally get a GvG mode? That ship has sailed, those players are long gone.

[c space cowboy.2764]

All of the fight guilds quit.

Long gone.

What's left have congealed into 3 or 4 guilds on 3 different servers.

Gvg maps wont bring those guilds back. They quit the game.

At this point enjoy what's left as its painfully obvious anet and ncsoft dont care.

[SWI.4127]

@KeyOrion.9506 said:When there are no longer any worlds to conquer. When there is NOTHING left to fight, you will not see any fights. If these individual guilds wish to have nothing but fights, I think they'll be able to find it in a GvG format, if anet were to implimetn such a format. Those guilds that dont' want to wvw, that are mostly PvE, i'm more than sure they will sign on to such a format just to test themselves. And those guilds in WvW have ALL the fights they'd want. Because they would no longer be ALLIED to other large Guilds on the same server. They'd be forced to fight each other. So they'd all get what they wanted. Fights and Bags. They'd get what they want. And those left behind in WvW would get what they want. Players more interested in winning. So everyone would be HAPPY.

Can't tell if you're joking, but the answer is not to fracture the tiny playerbase even more.

@KeyOrion.9506 said:OH COME ON, fight Guilds, this is exactly what you wanted! You wanted to show who the best Guild was at FIGHTING, why aren't you clamoring away for a GvG format? I'd almost think you wanted that format! You said you wanted to have FUN and have FIGHTS....what possible more fun could you get out of WvW, that you couldn't get in a GvG format, specifically tailored to your taste of combat?

Nevermind, looks like you just got a massive grudge against fight guilds for whatever reason. Prob not worth trying to reason with.

[MedievalThings.5417]

@"KeyOrion.9506" said:OH COME ON, fight Guilds, this is exactly what you wanted! You wanted to show who the best Guild was at FIGHTING, why aren't you clamoring away for a GvG format? I'd almost think you wanted that format! You said you wanted to have FUN and have FIGHTS....what possible more fun could you get out of WvW, that you couldn't get in a GvG format, specifically tailored to your taste of combat?

But they didn't want "fights", that was the premise they used, and what they called it, but NOT what they meant. They meant we want to have 50 guys fight 25 guys or less. We want to win every fight, so will not engage even numbers, and will map hop or server transfer to get the "fights" we want. Fast, easy WXP and loot. That is why you don't see all those people on here pushing the mode. I see people all the time claim that they truly want fights, but when push comes to shove, they show their colors in game. This is why you see soo many times guilds transfer, either to stack to be the blob, or transfer away to avoid someone else's blob. The long live the ktrain mentality.

Say I'm wrong all you want but what they have done and are doing in game proves it.

[Swamurabi.7890]

@KeyOrion.9506 said:

@"Swamurabi.7890" said:

The reason why "fight guilds" and GVG grew was because:

1. Match results are pre-determined, unless a server chooses to tank
2. PPT game play is extremely boring for certain players.
3. Glicko hell kept the same servers facing each other week after week after week.........

No. 3 is no longer a problem, due to the loss of the player base in the last six months. I don't think we have to worry about that any longer.

Glicko hell has been replaced in NA with tanking to not play BG.

[Knighthonor.4061]

@Bristingr.5034 said:They already implemented a GvG map. Nobody uses it.

@KeyOrion.9506 said:But when commanders DO NOT CARE ABOUT WINNING.The reason we commanders don't try to win the weekly match ups because there's no incentive to do so. Oh, if we win we get to fight Blackgate? Why would ANY server want to win then?

He the thing, with the three factions system I thought that was supposed to balance out power struggle for things like that. Do the two weaker factions not team up against BG?

[Strider Pj.2193]

@Knighthonor.4061 said:

@Bristingr.5034 said:They already implemented a GvG map. Nobody uses it.

@KeyOrion.9506 said:But when commanders DO NOT CARE ABOUT WINNING.The reason we commanders don't try to win the weekly match ups because there's no incentive to do so. Oh, if we win we get to fight Blackgate? Why would ANY server want to win then?

He the thing, with the three factions system I thought that was supposed to balance out power struggle for things like that. Do the two weaker factions not team up against BG?

No. And there is the rub: they would rather pick each other off. The times where it happens, it pushes BG down.

[KeyOrion.9506]

@"Swamurabi.7890" said:

Glicko hell has been replaced in NA with tanking to not play BG.

I would name three old JQ commanders right off the bat that said they'd rather tank than fight BG, because ...and I really didn't understand it, because I thought it was them just being stupid, "They were bored of fighting BG." They got tired of having their butts thrown to the ground and stomped on repeatedly is all. They just wouldn't admit it. Too proud to admit that they chose the wrong place to fight. And worse yet they just kept smashing their head against a brick wall, thinking that the 5th or 6th time fighting the same team that kept wiping them, would some how magically turn into a victory on the 7th try?

[enkidu.5937]

@SWI.4127 said:

@KeyOrion.9506 said:When there are no longer any worlds to conquer. When there is NOTHING left to fight, you will not see any fights. If these individual guilds wish to have nothing but fights, I think they'll be able to find it in a GvG format, if anet were to implimetn such a format. Those guilds that dont' want to wvw, that are mostly PvE, i'm more than sure they will sign on to such a format just to test themselves. And those guilds in WvW have ALL the fights they'd want. Because they would no longer be ALLIED to other large Guilds on the same server. They'd be forced to fight each other. So they'd all get what they wanted. Fights and Bags. They'd get what they want. And those left behind in WvW would get what they want. Players more interested in winning. So everyone would be HAPPY.

Can't tell if you're joking, but the answer is not to fracture the tiny playerbase even more.

@KeyOrion.9506 said:OH COME ON, fight Guilds, this is exactly what you wanted! You wanted to show who the best Guild was at FIGHTING, why aren't you clamoring away for a GvG format? I'd almost think you wanted that format! You said you wanted to have FUN and have FIGHTS....what possible more fun could you get out of WvW, that you couldn't get in a GvG format, specifically tailored to your taste of combat?

Nevermind, looks like you just got a massive grudge against fight guilds for whatever reason. Prob not worth trying to reason with.

He just made a reasonable suggestion. Its the same as in PvE:

(A) open world mainly for random groups that do some events together and then disband

(B) private instances (raids, fractals, dungeons), where coordinated groups / guilds can play „their thing“, whatever it is, no one cares because its a separated isolated instance for just this specific group

GW2 would be dead af if open world PvE would look like WvW. Just imagine you run through a PvE map, go to an event, and suddenly a guild group shows up, that wants you to stay away, because its their private „guild raid“.

Then you go to the next event, and another guild group shows up, and tells you that they dont really want to complete this event, because they got bored of events and now just trolling around to have some fun, so pls leave.

Then a world boss shows up, and finally there it is: an open tag. But the com just demands team speak, meta builds, following exactly the movement of his tag, and use your skills as he demands, otherwise you are asked to leave.

You may then make your own group, but there are just too few ppl left on the map for a zerg. You may make your own guild or join one, but what is the purpose then to play an open world mode WvW, if you dont want to play with other ppl, and dont want to play the mode itself because you got bored of it?

This is what you have in WvW most of the time these days, and ppl wonder why the mode is dying . . .

I dont see how KeyOrions suggestion would fracture the playerbase. Guild that run invisible tags and do scrims are already fractured from the playerbase. Its quite easy: if they just want to GvG, they could jump to a separated map (EotM already exists) for a time, and afterwards if they want to participate in open world WvW they can join the borderlands or EBG.

[SWI.4127]

@"enkidu.5937" said:He just made a reasonable suggestion. Its the same as in PvE:

(A) open world mainly for random groups that do some events together and then disband

(B) private instances (raids, fractals, dungeons), where coordinated groups / guilds can play „their thing“, whatever it is, no one cares because its a separated isolated instance for just this specific group

GW2 would be dead af if open world PvE would look like WvW. Just imagine you run through a PvE map, go to an event, and suddenly a guild group shows up, that wants you to stay away, because its their private „guild raid“.

Then you go to the next event, and another guild group shows up, and tells you that they dont really want to complete this event, because they got bored of events and now just trolling around to have some fun, so pls leave.

Then a world boss shows up, and finally there it is: an open tag. But the com just demands team speak, meta builds, following exactly the movement of his tag, and use your skills as he demands, otherwise you are asked to leave.

You may then make your own group, but there are just too few ppl left on the map for a zerg. You may make your own guild or join one, but what is the purpose then to play an open world mode WvW, if you dont want to play with other ppl, and dont want to play the mode itself because you got bored of it?

This is what you have in WvW most of the time these days, and ppl wonder why the mode is dying . . .

I dont see how KeyOrions suggestion would fracture the playerbase. Guild that run invisible tags and do scrims are already fractured from the playerbase. Its quite easy: if they just want to GvG, they could jump to a separated map (EotM already exists) for a time, and afterwards if they want to participate in open world WvW they can join the borderlands or EBG.

I'm not against the idea of a GvG "mode" it's just never going to happen realistically. I'm just calling this guy out because it's more than just a simple suggestion. He's pointing to the lack of explicit support for his idea and saying "LOOK, I told you fight guilds don't ACTUALLY want to fight!!". But what he doesn't realize is 90% of the fight guilds quit this game already and he's talking to nobody. Organized guilds who enjoy fighting already do attempt to schedule scrims, rvr, even number fights, etc. It's just that the guilds willing to fight these days are few and far between. So basically that ship has sailed already. Anet missed whatever opportunity they had to make GvG a thing unless a BUNCH of players come back.

[enkidu.5937]

@SWI.4127 said:

@"enkidu.5937" said:He just made a reasonable suggestion. Its the same as in PvE:

(A) open world mainly for random groups that do some events together and then disband

(B) private instances (raids, fractals, dungeons), where coordinated groups / guilds can play „their thing“, whatever it is, no one cares because its a separated isolated instance for just this specific group

GW2 would be dead af if open world PvE would look like WvW. Just imagine you run through a PvE map, go to an event, and suddenly a guild group shows up, that wants you to stay away, because its their private „guild raid“.

Then you go to the next event, and another guild group shows up, and tells you that they dont really want to complete this event, because they got bored of events and now just trolling around to have some fun, so pls leave.

Then a world boss shows up, and finally there it is: an open tag. But the com just demands team speak, meta builds, following exactly the movement of his tag, and use your skills as he demands, otherwise you are asked to leave.

You may then make your own group, but there are just too few ppl left on the map for a zerg. You may make your own guild or join one, but what is the purpose then to play an open world mode WvW, if you dont want to play with other ppl, and dont want to play the mode itself because you got bored of it?

This is what you have in WvW most of the time these days, and ppl wonder why the mode is dying . . .

I dont see how KeyOrions suggestion would fracture the playerbase. Guild that run invisible tags and do scrims are already fractured from the playerbase. Its quite easy: if they just want to GvG, they could jump to a separated map (EotM already exists) for a time, and afterwards if they want to participate in open world WvW they can join the borderlands or EBG.

I'm not against the idea of a GvG "mode" it's just never going to happen realistically. I'm just calling this guy out because it's more than just a simple suggestion. He's pointing to the lack of explicit support for his idea and saying "LOOK, I told you fight guilds don't ACTUALLY want to fight!!". But what he doesn't realize is 90% of the fight guilds quit this game already and he's talking to nobody. Organized guilds who enjoy fighting already do attempt to schedule scrims, rvr, even number fights, etc. It's just that the guilds willing to fight these days are few and far between. So basically that ship has sailed already. Anet missed whatever opportunity they had to make GvG a thing unless a BUNCH of players come back.Anet already said that they dont plan a stand-alone GvG mode that is separated from WvW and sPvP. And I totally agree with them and you, considering the „we cant split and thin out the WvW community“ and the leaving of GvG-only competitive Guilds.

But for me, the suggestion for some kind of an open-field scrim map (EotM), where ppl can jump on from time to time to have nothing but fights, seems beneficial to everyone imo.

Its like when Anet removed crafting stations from WvW,. Doesnt mean that those players are completely removed from WvW, its just like „If you want to craft, go Lions Arc, and come back to WvW maps afterwards.“

So, lets say a guild is looking for nothing but open-field GvG scrims. In WvW they might have 3 fights per hour. If they would jump to EotM instead, they would get those 3 fights within 15 minutes, and could spend the remaining 45 minutes on WvW maps, fighting for objectives. Maybe give EotM „reward track pips per kill“, maybe add more spacious are(n)as that suit such fights.