For the rest of the traits... why not making one only specific trait that grants boon depending on the aura you apply . And this boon would be more or less strong depending on how often that aura can be applied :
Magnetic aura (decently rare) : protection and/or resistance
Frost Aura (pretty common) : regen and/or vigor
Fire Aura (common) : might and/or celerity
That Way you have only 1 GM trait ... or master trait and you have free slots for trait that could improve core ele in each trait line .
This would be a bit too much for a single trait, IMO.
And considering the latest post from Irenio talking about how booms will be handled in the future, I think it would go a bit against their view.
The different traitlines giving specific and thematic aura buffs allows the elementalist to choose what buffs to give (self or others with share) based on the specs he chooses.
This lets eles choose what boons to give based on their elemental traitlines without leting them give all the boons (as stated by Irenio to be not the way they are going forward)
Then you would have issues cause you need the whole traitline for the specific buff and the rest of the traits might not be very usefull in your playstyle. Better make 3 traits in the same tier then and you have to choose one of the three.
Am I making it clear? I feel i got pretty confused there haha
Let's say the 3 adept or master traits in the tempest trait line are like these:
1. Auras give fury and swiftness
2. Auras give regen and vigor
3. Auras gives might and protection
And now you have to pick one of these one at a time.
Furthermore, moving the aurashare to tempest and the aura heal to water you let tempest become an offensive buffer (fire/air/tempest) and you let core ele use auras for sustain.
Giving fire auras a pulsing resistance buff lets ele have another way of dealing with conditions by trying to maintain resistance (by chaining fire auras) instead of cleansing everything. This lets the ele be more offensive (with fire instead of water) but makes it very vulnerable to corrupts/boom strip.
Woaw ... i mean it might be a really good idea to improve ele gameplay i think ... or maybe make it too powerfull? with some strange combination. But really good honestly
Besides other suggestions, I think 20% cooldown reduction as a major trait the wrong way - they use to be the best option nowadays. I'm not sure this is the best solution, but maybe as a minor trait for each specialization (including arcane) will let one major trait more valuable than now (a new one).
For the rest of the traits... why not making one only specific trait that grants boon depending on the aura you apply . And this boon would be more or less strong depending on how often that aura can be applied :
Magnetic aura (decently rare) : protection and/or resistance
Frost Aura (pretty common) : regen and/or vigor
Fire Aura (common) : might and/or celerity
That Way you have only 1 GM trait ... or master trait and you have free slots for trait that could improve core ele in each trait line .
This would be a bit too much for a single trait, IMO.
And considering the latest post from Irenio talking about how booms will be handled in the future, I think it would go a bit against their view.
The different traitlines giving specific and thematic aura buffs allows the elementalist to choose what buffs to give (self or others with share) based on the specs he chooses.
This lets eles choose what boons to give based on their elemental traitlines without leting them give all the boons (as stated by Irenio to be not the way they are going forward)
Then you would have issues cause you need the whole traitline for the specific buff and the rest of the traits might not be very usefull in your playstyle. Better make 3 traits in the same tier then and you have to choose one of the three.
Am I making it clear? I feel i got pretty confused there haha
Let's say the 3 adept or master traits in the tempest trait line are like these:
1. Auras give fury and swiftness
2. Auras give regen and vigor
3. Auras gives might and protection
And now you have to pick one of these one at a time.
Furthermore, moving the aurashare to tempest and the aura heal to water you let tempest become an offensive buffer (fire/air/tempest) and you let core ele use auras for sustain.
Giving fire auras a pulsing resistance buff lets ele have another way of dealing with conditions by trying to maintain resistance (by chaining fire auras) instead of cleansing everything. This lets the ele be more offensive (with fire instead of water) but makes it very vulnerable to corrupts/boom strip.
Woaw ... i mean it might be a really good idea to improve ele gameplay i think ... or maybe make it too powerfull? with some strange combination. But really good honestly
I am not going to lie these boons are worthless to give out with auras because every class even the non support aimed classes give these boons out to other ppl. To have them on auras simply makes them harder for ele to pull off then the other classes who are giving them out passively.
That and the boons named are far weaker then stab, quickness, resistances and alacrity all witch ele cant give out.
For the rest of the traits... why not making one only specific trait that grants boon depending on the aura you apply . And this boon would be more or less strong depending on how often that aura can be applied :
Magnetic aura (decently rare) : protection and/or resistance
Frost Aura (pretty common) : regen and/or vigor
Fire Aura (common) : might and/or celerity
That Way you have only 1 GM trait ... or master trait and you have free slots for trait that could improve core ele in each trait line .
This would be a bit too much for a single trait, IMO.
And considering the latest post from Irenio talking about how booms will be handled in the future, I think it would go a bit against their view.
The different traitlines giving specific and thematic aura buffs allows the elementalist to choose what buffs to give (self or others with share) based on the specs he chooses.
This lets eles choose what boons to give based on their elemental traitlines without leting them give all the boons (as stated by Irenio to be not the way they are going forward)
Then you would have issues cause you need the whole traitline for the specific buff and the rest of the traits might not be very usefull in your playstyle. Better make 3 traits in the same tier then and you have to choose one of the three.
Am I making it clear? I feel i got pretty confused there haha
Let's say the 3 adept or master traits in the tempest trait line are like these:
1. Auras give fury and swiftness
2. Auras give regen and vigor
3. Auras gives might and protection
And now you have to pick one of these one at a time.
Furthermore, moving the aurashare to tempest and the aura heal to water you let tempest become an offensive buffer (fire/air/tempest) and you let core ele use auras for sustain.
Giving fire auras a pulsing resistance buff lets ele have another way of dealing with conditions by trying to maintain resistance (by chaining fire auras) instead of cleansing everything. This lets the ele be more offensive (with fire instead of water) but makes it very vulnerable to corrupts/boom strip.
Woaw ... i mean it might be a really good idea to improve ele gameplay i think ... or maybe make it too powerfull? with some strange combination. But really good honestly
I think the boons on aura traits really need to be on the specific elemental traitlines. This way, core ele and weaver can use them, while tempest can share them. Fire:
- adept: auras pulse might
- master: fire auras last longer and pulse resistance
This way you have an option to go with fire auras to deal with conditions instead of water, but then you will not cleanse them so easily and risk taking a lot of condi dmg if you cant keep fire auras up or if you get corrupted/striped. A different playstyle that can be used as an alternative or complementary to the current cleanse (water). Auras pulsing might will make them a good way to build might, but slower than overloads, with fire aura (due to increased duration) providing more might than the others.
Air:
- adept: auras give fury and swiftness
- master: static auras give superspeed, when you apply superspeed, you also apply quickness
This way you can apply quickness to yourself with auras or without (weaver superspeed traits, superspeed in air attune) making a good way to combo bursts. With static aura giving superspeed and quickness you can then provide constant quickness and superspeed to the group with FA tempest. This can be further comboed with fire to give might/fury/quickness between fire attune and air attune with FA, that can be then increased with warhorn alternating heatsink and sandsquall.
water:
- adept: auras give regen and vigor
- master: frost auras give regen, heal when you apply an aura
This way you can have auras healing in other specs beside tempest, while tempest would focus to spread the auras to other players (with aura share or shouts and overloads). with the heal trait in water, core ele can use the auras to get some sustain and by using both traits frost aura can remove 2 conditions (in combo with the GM that removes conditions when giving regen). This makes the water line the cleansing line, while fire can resist conditions.
earth:
- adept: auras give protection
- master: magnetic auras pulse stability
With magnetic aura providing stability, staff can now use it to try to cast its long cast AoEs. Tempest would have a good access to stability (shout, overload, sandsquall or staff) providing a good amount of stability to the group without it being too common.
Arcane:
- master: arcane shield is considered an aura for the purpose of traits, apply arcane shield when below 50% hp
With arcane shield becoming an aura, core ele can use it to further provide itself buffs, while tempest can use it to share a block to the group, giving a arcane tempest a good way to provide utility to avoid big hits in the squad. In combination with the arcane traits and fire, fire/arcane/tempest could be a great buffer and condi spec focusing on burn and providing aura and burns to the group (with shared arcane shield and arcane power providing extra burns)
@lLobo.7960 said:
I think the boons on aura traits really need to be on the specific elemental traitlines. This way, core ele and weaver can use them, while tempest can share them. Fire:
- adept: auras pulse might
- master: fire auras last longer and pulse resistance
This way you have an option to go with fire auras to deal with conditions instead of water, but then you will not cleanse them so easily and risk taking a lot of condi dmg if you cant keep fire auras up or if you get corrupted/striped. A different playstyle that can be used as an alternative or complementary to the current cleanse (water). Auras pulsing might will make them a good way to build might, but slower than overloads, with fire aura (due to increased duration) providing more might than the others.
Air:
- adept: auras give fury and swiftness
- master: static auras give superspeed, when you apply superspeed, you also apply quickness
This way you can apply quickness to yourself with auras or without (weaver superspeed traits, superspeed in air attune) making a good way to combo bursts. With static aura giving superspeed and quickness you can then provide constant quickness and superspeed to the group with FA tempest. This can be further comboed with fire to give might/fury/quickness between fire attune and air attune with FA, that can be then increased with warhorn alternating heatsink and sandsquall.
water:
- adept: auras give regen and vigor
- master: frost auras give regen, heal when you apply an aura
This way you can have auras healing in other specs beside tempest, while tempest would focus to spread the auras to other players (with aura share or shouts and overloads). with the heal trait in water, core ele can use the auras to get some sustain and by using both traits frost aura can remove 2 conditions (in combo with the GM that removes conditions when giving regen). This makes the water line the cleansing line, while fire can resist conditions.
earth:
- adept: auras give protection
- master: magnetic auras pulse stability
With magnetic aura providing stability, staff can now use it to try to cast its long cast AoEs. Tempest would have a good access to stability (shout, overload, sandsquall or staff) providing a good amount of stability to the group without it being too common.
Arcane:
- master: arcane shield is considered an aura for the purpose of traits, apply arcane shield when below 50% hp
With arcane shield becoming an aura, core ele can use it to further provide itself buffs, while tempest can use it to share a block to the group, giving a arcane tempest a good way to provide utility to avoid big hits in the squad. In combination with the arcane traits and fire, fire/arcane/tempest could be a great buffer and condi spec focusing on burn and providing aura and burns to the group (with shared arcane shield and arcane power providing extra burns)
Well my concern was to have more place to get brand new traits while for now it almost feels like each trait line has a copy/paste scheme from most traits (such as boons on auras and attunement specific skills cooldown reduction) and I thought it was not that healthy for the class. That's why I suggested one and only trait in that case.
@lLobo.7960 said:
I think the boons on aura traits really need to be on the specific elemental traitlines. This way, core ele and weaver can use them, while tempest can share them. Fire:
- adept: auras pulse might
- master: fire auras last longer and pulse resistance
This way you have an option to go with fire auras to deal with conditions instead of water, but then you will not cleanse them so easily and risk taking a lot of condi dmg if you cant keep fire auras up or if you get corrupted/striped. A different playstyle that can be used as an alternative or complementary to the current cleanse (water). Auras pulsing might will make them a good way to build might, but slower than overloads, with fire aura (due to increased duration) providing more might than the others.
Air:
- adept: auras give fury and swiftness
- master: static auras give superspeed, when you apply superspeed, you also apply quickness
This way you can apply quickness to yourself with auras or without (weaver superspeed traits, superspeed in air attune) making a good way to combo bursts. With static aura giving superspeed and quickness you can then provide constant quickness and superspeed to the group with FA tempest. This can be further comboed with fire to give might/fury/quickness between fire attune and air attune with FA, that can be then increased with warhorn alternating heatsink and sandsquall.
water:
- adept: auras give regen and vigor
- master: frost auras give regen, heal when you apply an aura
This way you can have auras healing in other specs beside tempest, while tempest would focus to spread the auras to other players (with aura share or shouts and overloads). with the heal trait in water, core ele can use the auras to get some sustain and by using both traits frost aura can remove 2 conditions (in combo with the GM that removes conditions when giving regen). This makes the water line the cleansing line, while fire can resist conditions.
earth:
- adept: auras give protection
- master: magnetic auras pulse stability
With magnetic aura providing stability, staff can now use it to try to cast its long cast AoEs. Tempest would have a good access to stability (shout, overload, sandsquall or staff) providing a good amount of stability to the group without it being too common.
Arcane:
- master: arcane shield is considered an aura for the purpose of traits, apply arcane shield when below 50% hp
With arcane shield becoming an aura, core ele can use it to further provide itself buffs, while tempest can use it to share a block to the group, giving a arcane tempest a good way to provide utility to avoid big hits in the squad. In combination with the arcane traits and fire, fire/arcane/tempest could be a great buffer and condi spec focusing on burn and providing aura and burns to the group (with shared arcane shield and arcane power providing extra burns)
Well my concern was to have more place to get brand new traits while for now it almost feels like each trait line has a copy/paste scheme from most traits (such as boons on auras and attunement specific skills cooldown reduction) and I thought it was not that healthy for the class. That's why I suggested one and only trait in that case.
Having an aura application / detonation in master level for all element types dose fit ele and would fill an logic out come of added them in the first places. Core specs getting core effects on core weapons. It would world and help out core ele a lot as well as its elite spec in the long run just at a cost of giving up an core element line. It would be a real cost for running an elite spec line and give ele players a real chose.
I would not go for the same way as the person set up to go but its far better then what ele has now.
In some ways ele should not be about boons but be about its auras / detonation. It would give ele a real class roll with out getting taped in this rat races of boons balancing.
@Quasar.1756 said:
Ok, so let's get to the nitty gritty of things.
What is the "biggest' issue with Elementalists? - and - What can Anet do to satisfy / appease the Elementalist community of GW2?
All replies are welcomed.
just some:
low HP: Why do Necros have more HP, good health, can cast long time marks and wells on the move and do their walking aoe of death run?
no protection against stealth: A mesmer or thief jumping out of stealth just kills you. Done. No defense, nothing. A deadeye marking you? Good luck running into the right direction, or you go down. Without any defense whatsoever. A soulbeast with his unblockable shots isn't much better either.
lack of mobility: While a ranger is pew pewing you from a save distance, you can stand still and channel pile driver - just to see it fail or do negligible damage. And for some reason even oh so slow necros are able to run away - how? It is said they are slow. All hackers?
lack of protection: warriors with their permablocks, guardians with all their stuff going on.. yeah fun. Fun to fight them.
evades are a bad joke: twist of fate can be interrupted. You can be pulled right out of it. And then you die. Great fun.
healing: just abysmal
barrier: exists for pretty much every class but ele. Oh, we get some. 200 barrier is a lot, isnt it? compared to the 2-4k other classes get. Good thing no Mirage will ever jump at you out of stealth for 24k damage. Oh wait, they do. A lot.
boon sharing: dead. FB does it better.
boon removal: other classes can at least take away or turn opponents boons. Eles can't.
damage: apart from the test golem, pretty bad. There is a reason why scourges dominate wvw group fights.
CCs: a joke
clunky: other classes can pop there defensive skills at will. Ele has to attune to the right element. And low and behold, that comes with so long cool downs between switching, you don't even really have to care. Just sit down and die. Good luck to double attune to earth, when you are in fire/air. But you can use unravel! No, you can't. Because the utility slots you need for such basic survival skills like flash or mistform. Which have both deliciously long cool downs.
Elite skill is just garbage: it could be good. But you have to time your 4 elemental switches perfectly and you have to hope that you don't need to go back to any element because of circumstances. Others just pop theirs and it is done. Winds of Disenchantment anyone?
anything else I missed?
Ele isn't good in any aspect and abysmal in most.
You basically hit the nail on the head, I'd have to say ele is probably the hardest class for Arena net to balance though. Ele is the jack of all trades, they either end up doing TOO much of everything or just not enough to be relevant. It's a hard sweet spot to find.
@Quasar.1756 said:
Ok, so let's get to the nitty gritty of things.
What is the "biggest' issue with Elementalists? - and - What can Anet do to satisfy / appease the Elementalist community of GW2?
All replies are welcomed.
just some:
low HP: Why do Necros have more HP, good health, can cast long time marks and wells on the move and do their walking aoe of death run?
no protection against stealth: A mesmer or thief jumping out of stealth just kills you. Done. No defense, nothing. A deadeye marking you? Good luck running into the right direction, or you go down. Without any defense whatsoever. A soulbeast with his unblockable shots isn't much better either.
lack of mobility: While a ranger is pew pewing you from a save distance, you can stand still and channel pile driver - just to see it fail or do negligible damage. And for some reason even oh so slow necros are able to run away - how? It is said they are slow. All hackers?
lack of protection: warriors with their permablocks, guardians with all their stuff going on.. yeah fun. Fun to fight them.
evades are a bad joke: twist of fate can be interrupted. You can be pulled right out of it. And then you die. Great fun.
healing: just abysmal
barrier: exists for pretty much every class but ele. Oh, we get some. 200 barrier is a lot, isnt it? compared to the 2-4k other classes get. Good thing no Mirage will ever jump at you out of stealth for 24k damage. Oh wait, they do. A lot.
boon sharing: dead. FB does it better.
boon removal: other classes can at least take away or turn opponents boons. Eles can't.
damage: apart from the test golem, pretty bad. There is a reason why scourges dominate wvw group fights.
CCs: a joke
clunky: other classes can pop there defensive skills at will. Ele has to attune to the right element. And low and behold, that comes with so long cool downs between switching, you don't even really have to care. Just sit down and die. Good luck to double attune to earth, when you are in fire/air. But you can use unravel! No, you can't. Because the utility slots you need for such basic survival skills like flash or mistform. Which have both deliciously long cool downs.
Elite skill is just garbage: it could be good. But you have to time your 4 elemental switches perfectly and you have to hope that you don't need to go back to any element because of circumstances. Others just pop theirs and it is done. Winds of Disenchantment anyone?
anything else I missed?
Ele isn't good in any aspect and abysmal in most.
You basically hit the nail on the head, I'd have to say ele is probably the hardest class for Arena net to balance though. Ele is the jack of all trades, they either end up doing TOO much of everything or just not enough to be relevant. It's a hard sweet spot to find.
give ele 4k hp, done.
"Any path that narrows future possibilities may become a lethal trap. Humans do not thread their way through a maze; they scan a vast horizon filled with unique opportunities." - The Spacing Guild Handbook.
@Quasar.1756 said:
Ok, so let's get to the nitty gritty of things.
What is the "biggest' issue with Elementalists? - and - What can Anet do to satisfy / appease the Elementalist community of GW2?
All replies are welcomed.
just some:
low HP: Why do Necros have more HP, good health, can cast long time marks and wells on the move and do their walking aoe of death run?
no protection against stealth: A mesmer or thief jumping out of stealth just kills you. Done. No defense, nothing. A deadeye marking you? Good luck running into the right direction, or you go down. Without any defense whatsoever. A soulbeast with his unblockable shots isn't much better either.
lack of mobility: While a ranger is pew pewing you from a save distance, you can stand still and channel pile driver - just to see it fail or do negligible damage. And for some reason even oh so slow necros are able to run away - how? It is said they are slow. All hackers?
lack of protection: warriors with their permablocks, guardians with all their stuff going on.. yeah fun. Fun to fight them.
evades are a bad joke: twist of fate can be interrupted. You can be pulled right out of it. And then you die. Great fun.
healing: just abysmal
barrier: exists for pretty much every class but ele. Oh, we get some. 200 barrier is a lot, isnt it? compared to the 2-4k other classes get. Good thing no Mirage will ever jump at you out of stealth for 24k damage. Oh wait, they do. A lot.
boon sharing: dead. FB does it better.
boon removal: other classes can at least take away or turn opponents boons. Eles can't.
damage: apart from the test golem, pretty bad. There is a reason why scourges dominate wvw group fights.
CCs: a joke
clunky: other classes can pop there defensive skills at will. Ele has to attune to the right element. And low and behold, that comes with so long cool downs between switching, you don't even really have to care. Just sit down and die. Good luck to double attune to earth, when you are in fire/air. But you can use unravel! No, you can't. Because the utility slots you need for such basic survival skills like flash or mistform. Which have both deliciously long cool downs.
Elite skill is just garbage: it could be good. But you have to time your 4 elemental switches perfectly and you have to hope that you don't need to go back to any element because of circumstances. Others just pop theirs and it is done. Winds of Disenchantment anyone?
anything else I missed?
Ele isn't good in any aspect and abysmal in most.
You basically hit the nail on the head, I'd have to say ele is probably the hardest class for Arena net to balance though. Ele is the jack of all trades, they either end up doing TOO much of everything or just not enough to be relevant. It's a hard sweet spot to find.
There is no class in the game that has less then ele every one is a jack of all trades the only thing classes lack in this game are powerful boons counter to though boons and unblockables. Out side of that all classes can dmg tank and support. The thing is ele is the only class in the game whom is lacking nearly all of these effects there realty no class in the game whom has so few effects.
Ele is the non of all trades it only started out as the jack of all trades and this description is very very out dated.
Ele was the first class I made. That was mistake #1, then I boosted my ele at about level 20, that was mistake #2. Then I suffered through playing a super squishy hybrid stat ele through HoT and put it away and only touched it for its artificer abilities, that was the first thing I did right. Recently after a long time of playing, 9 characters to 80 with both elites done, lots of raids, and tons of gameplay under my belt I pulled my ele out to fess in the lunatic armor I made this Halloween. I made right choice #2 going full zerkers to max his damage and rely on the playing skills developed in fractals and raids to keep “Mr. Squishy” ,as I think of him, alive and do significant damage enough to be useful. I found the skills developed playing support chrono make it possible for a lowly human to play an ele effectively instead of cuthulu alone having a monopoly on effective ele play thanks to a multitude of tentacles with which to play the keyboard like an organ. The tempest skill splitting remains clunky and slow. Attacks cast time is far too long and easily interrupted consuming the skill for nothing. Granted a great ele player can make mincemeat of both mobs and other players, but as it is such a popular first class - it needs more damage to be survivable or more base toughness. Weapons swap would be a game changer too allowing a second weapon set for close combat and staff for distance with its slower cast times and higher damage. Giving ele a fighting chance when mobs and players close in. The sword with weaver was a nice touch but ele is too squishy for close combat you could even allow distance attacks with the sword and dagger like Mesmer has with great sword. Otherwise play with a druid or support rev at your side and do your best.
@Derkon.7408 said:
Did anyone else noticed that this thread was reduced by 3 pages? anet moderators up and about again x)
I remember when this thread used to be 15 pages long. So, it looks like the mods frequent this particular thread quite a bit, but do nothing to relay the suggestions we have to the developers, or provide any feedback here. What a shame.
Broski Supreme - Borsk Carry Effect - Condi Ele Pioneer
Speaking for Elementalist in sPvP (mostly) and Open World (somewhat):
I am deeply enjoying my Weaver experience with Sword/Focus. I feel as if this weapon choice negates a lot of the complaints about survivability in this thread. There may, however, be a fundamental survivability issue with the other weapon choices... Sw/Fo has the satisfying feel of a "battlemage" archetype, but I can also see why the general populace may want to see the ranged caster archetype as a viable option.
To be more specific, my build uses Glyph of Elemental Power and Primordial Stance to dish out massive condition damage, and I can just evade while I watch everything around me bleed and burn to death. Probably not an optimal DPS build, but I've certainly outlasted my allies in battle time and time again. I use Earth specialization for the Stone Heart and suddenly I don't instantly die to a deadeye, burst mesmer, or warrior.
I just wanted to share my success story with regards to Ele, since everyone here seems to be speaking negatively about balance issues. Don't forget to mention what you already like! I've found a build that works for me and has the general feel I enjoy in a character. I cannot speak for tempests or power-based builds, other than the fact that I know outright that I will defeat them in a 1v1... I guess that says something, though.
Despite my general success, I do see (from reading, mostly) a few fundamental issues I think could use some attention:
1) (ranged) Elementalists don't feel like a caster that should be feared, other than their one meteor shower if you're not paying attention.
2) Conjure Weapons still don't feel useful in most circumstances. I would love to see a re-work of these with a creative new way to bring them in to a class who relies heavily on swapping what's available in skills 1-5.
Recommendation for the others posting to this thread: try to clearly state the problems you're experiencing, rather than suggesting specific skill re-vamps or changes as solutions. We need to fully understand the problems and arrive at a few fundamental issues that we the player-base can agree upon. Then, the developers can, well, develop, solutions that address these problems involving specific skill, trait, or mechanic changes. Oh, and don't forget to mention the things that you really like, as well, because you wouldn't want to see those go away!
The problem here is that ppl mix between love playing a profession and knowing how to play it,
Weaver is not a class for everybody, there's a few gooooood weavers there, the rest !!? averages or bads.
Buffing Elem (Weaver) at the moment gonna just make Averages/bads weavers good and Good Weavers.... GODS.
This implies that it's impossible for Anet to buff non-sword weaver builds and tempest builds without buffing the sword build. I don't buy it. Just because the sword build could potentially get crazy, it is no excuse for them to ignore the problems with ele.
Anet listen!
The short way to " help / fix " Elementalist: < increase BASE HEALTH >
The " long " way:
Elemental Attunement baseline !
Elemental Contingency ICD down to 5 seconds
Arcane Precision Chance on Critical Hit: 33% ----->>>>> 100 % Chance on NORMAL HITS ICD 2 or 3 seconds. WORST TRAIT EVER!
Final Shielding ICD DOWN to 30 and BLOCKS INFINITE DAMAGE for 3 seonds.
Zephyr's Speed Move faster while attuned to air. ????? WHY only AIR ? its a useless trait .. because all Elementalists have 33% speed Boon.... Remove it Rework it- make it 3-5 seconds Superspeed when switching to Air. Or give it 3-5 seconds Fury when switching to Air. USELESS TRAIT!
One with Air ---> Rework it because zephyris Speed should give the Super Speed.
Inscription (trait) ...... Really ? That bad?? Give it 5-10 Stacks might on fire. Give it Fury; give it retaliation, give it super speed. give it Quickness. ( USELESS TRAIT)
Twin Strike: Range 130 -> 180
Pyro Vortex: Range 130 -> 180
Lava Skin: Remove CAST TIME
Shearing Edge: Rework it .. its a bad skill.. dont know its just a bad skill . . .
Natural Frenzy: no changes, i like this skill
Gale Strike: Range 170 -> 180
Utility:
Mist Form: CD 60 -> 30 or Maximum Count: 2
Armor of Earth: CD 50 -> 25 or Maximum Count: 2
Lightning Flash: Since its last nerf from 1200 to 900 Range -> Maximum Count: 2
Arcane Shield: Duration 3 seconds and can block infinite; CD reduce to 20 or Maximum Count: 2
Cleansing Fire: revert break stun.; Reduce cooldown to 20 or Maximum Count: 2
Elite Skills:
ohm.... Give Elementalists finally 1 good Elite skill. I think we are the only class without an elite skill.
Let us pick some utility instead.
The problem im seeing with tempest, is that its a immobile turret spec spewing out attacks most of the time. The rotation im seeing on snowcrows is to stand in one place throw lightning.The range on the scepter is not great and to do its full damage you have to stand still to charge up lightning or even the glyph of storms.
I feel like some sort of reduction on mist form or some sort of access to aegis would be nice, since I have to stand still to cast these and in close range and get pummeled to death while casting lightning storm, at least for the damage it does.
The snowcrows build says use lightning orb overload air and lightning storm then wilfire phoenix dragons tooth then dust storm conjure lightning hammer invoke lightning overload air dragontooth lightning orb again conjure fiery greatsword fiery rush firestorm and overload air
You got some good aoe attacks, but even the discretize one is super slow casts and you got to get into melee range, increasing odds of getting downed and killed.
Some of that lost sustain is needed for these to work in melee range, because you are going to take a hit.
What if something was changed to make the next cast instant on the channeling spells? you could have a rotation even if its not all instant so at least you have a rotation involving making channel casts instant in melee range, since you run the risk of death in hard fractals.
You could always split the skills, after all: The channels are pretty long, giving plenty of time for monsters to kill you
.
Here is my list of characters i got so far:
Elementalist 80 with tempest:Talman nul
Necromancer 80 with reaper:Zex vokar
Mesmer level 80 no chrono yet:Klanga voosh.
Level 80 Ranger with druid spec Jedkhan.
You guys still haven't smelled that they have left maybe tops 5 people to "fix classes" and everyone else is working on the living world season episodes to justify all the money they got?
@Derkon.7408 said:
You guys still haven't smelled that they have left maybe tops 5 people to "fix classes" and everyone else is working on the living world season episodes to justify all the money they got?
Smelled, disgusted, and left the building. Moved on to other games.
As a weaver main, I want the skill combinations I perform to feel numerically rewarding. The higher the skill cap, the greater my damage, healing, or support/utility output should be.
As a player that is rapidly switching attunements, I want to be able to swap my main and offhand attunements easily, quickly, and without having to use up my utility and elite skill slots.
As a longtime elementalist player, I want all of my elements to be able to contribute to a primary goal based on my weapon type. Ex. If my staff is a heavy AoE direct damage damage weapon, every elemental attunement's skills should be able to contribute in some way that further enhances or extends the AoE direct damage.
As a squishy character class with a melee weapon in my main hand, I want to have sustainability that doesn't require specific skill activation.
@System , you did a great job with Guardian Staff (changing only 2 skills) please do the same with Elementalist.
Could add chain attacks to fire and water, in Earth change to something like Rock Barrer/Hurl and the skill animation Wave of Wrath could replace it.
If possible, add another weapon to Elem core, like a mace or a torch. Elem has few options with weapons.
As I posted in the aura thread, I think the only change ele needs right now is to move Powerful Aura from the Water Trait Line and make it a Grandmaster in Arcane. This would allow eles to not always have to spec to Water in order to run an Aura build. You might actually take Earth for the Protection boost, or Fire for the condi cleansing.
@ClickToKill.8473 said:
As I posted in the aura thread, I think the only change ele needs right now is to move Powerful Aura from the Water Trait Line and make it a Grandmaster in Arcane. This would allow eles to not always have to spec to Water in order to run an Aura build. You might actually take Earth for the Protection boost, or Fire for the condi cleansing.
Core ele has quite pathetic aura support though. Powerful aura shouldnt be more than a minor on tempest, a spec that actually focuses on auras.
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The God of Pips and Gud Deeps
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Ele needs weapons specified to carry one thing, all weapons now have a full package but half of the it is wasted because of the trait lines themed around the attunements, you spam all damage dealers and then camp fire the whole time because it carries all multipliers yet provides 0 defense: add trait lines like arcane but actually useful because arcane is the worst line now especially after last update damage wise and boon uptime is a joke. Ele will always be locked into either earth/water or fire/air because the trait lines that kind of unlock the attunements to be useful. Weapons and trait lines are awful and perhaps a weapon swap like what weaver would have been would be great one weapon carries 2 attunements with the ability to reach other attunements with another weapon that can carry out these attunements better and focus on this mechanic with the trait lines and utilites. Allow ele to specialize in one role and nothing else besides and forget about the jack-of-all-trades concept because other professions can fit in any role with 2 e-specs.
And for once, stop nerfing core to take down an e-spec, this isn't a solution amongst all professions, because any further changes that will be taken to the e-spec then will be the death of the profession.
I bet anyone would love to know in the balance patch why some adjustments were done and how harmful were things before the change, allow the community to least share an insight on what's going on.
@Nepster.4275 said:
I was thinking people stopped posting here, seems like its not that way
Maybe for another 6 months but only these light bumbs to keep showing anet they not used this at all and in fact seems to be going out of there way to do want the ele community dose not want.
@Nepster.4275 said:
I was thinking people stopped posting here, seems like its not that way
Maybe for another 6 months but only these light bumbs to keep showing anet they not used this at all and in fact seems to be going out of there way to do want the ele community dose not want.
The thing i do not understand is that Anet keeps telling they want balance in the game, but actually they do not do anything important to get it done. What i mean is, GW has a very big community, they could find people for ALL game modes for ALL classes and ALL builds ever played who could explain them what to change to maintain the perfect balance, but NO they change stuff that they think causes the imbalance.
I mean changing stuff they think is a good way to start it, no question , but when you fail to bring balance after the X th balance patch, you should consider asking someone who basically lives on GW, but this is only my opinion about it maybe am wrong
@Nepster.4275 said:
I was thinking people stopped posting here, seems like its not that way
Maybe for another 6 months but only these light bumbs to keep showing anet they not used this at all and in fact seems to be going out of there way to do want the ele community dose not want.
The thing i do not understand is that Anet keeps telling they want balance in the game, but actually they do not do anything important to get it done. What i mean is, GW has a very big community, they could find people for ALL game modes for ALL classes and ALL builds ever played who could explain them what to change to maintain the perfect balance, but NO they change stuff that they think causes the imbalance.
I mean changing stuff they think is a good way to start it, no question , but when you fail to bring balance after the X th balance patch, you should consider asking someone who basically lives on GW, but this is only my opinion about it maybe am wrong
Your not wrong, they 'should' be consulting with key stakeholders, i.e experienced representation of the ele player base. They should also have sufficient fingers on the pulse to recognise fundamentals of their own design e.g it should be bleedingly obvious that you need to spend 1.1k on heal/vitality as an ele to simply be able to survive in a skirmish, leaving 1.1k to spread across toughness/crit/power/condy in a class that has hybrid skills and 1 viable build that is melee!! You really don't need to be a rocket scientist to see the flaw there.
"Any path that narrows future possibilities may become a lethal trap. Humans do not thread their way through a maze; they scan a vast horizon filled with unique opportunities." - The Spacing Guild Handbook.
There is no such thing as "perfect balance" you mention. Ele even today can bring almost highest dps in the game - highest on large targets/AoE, second highest to small/single target right after deadeye with rifle. Ele also got a lot of survival skills on demand while other classes dont. Thats my opinion and also a lot of people - you can see that on every benchmark.
And you tell me ele is in wrong place? So please tell me what you expect. As far as i can see its pretty good right now. Do i want ele buffed? Nope. Already there is too many ele around who cant do anything useful and just put the blame on class and balance. Ele is one of the hardest classes to master - not without the reason. If already i got highest dmg in almost every raid on weaver and im pretty good on pvp (even few times i fought with 3 enemies at once... i survived, kill them and all that time i stayed on point) then with buffs the class gonna be too OP.
That's the main point : few people are lazy (and dont use full potential of class bcs it req too much effort. Yup, sometimes i got the same, for example on meta-events) or simply just "dont feel" this ele, while other few people know every single spell and also can plan few moves forward - so they always got spells they want for every situation and deal tons of damage while still are untouchable. Try balance that. To buff ele they must first take something, maybe increase cd between attunements? Or otherway ele will be Monster of the game, capable to do everything - tank bosses while healing yourself and others, and also deal top dps? You really wanna that?
@gonzi.7605 said:
There is no such thing as "perfect balance" you mention. Ele even today can bring almost highest dps in the game - highest on large targets/AoE, second highest to small/single target right after deadeye with rifle. Ele also got a lot of survival skills on demand while other classes dont. Thats my opinion and also a lot of people - you can see that on every benchmark.
And you tell me ele is in wrong place? So please tell me what you expect. As far as i can see its pretty good right now. Do i want ele buffed? Nope. Already there is too many ele around who cant do anything useful and just put the blame on class and balance. Ele is one of the hardest classes to master - not without the reason. If already i got highest dmg in almost every raid on weaver and im pretty good on pvp (even few times i fought with 3 enemies at once... i survived, kill them and all that time i stayed on point) then with buffs the class gonna be too OP.
That's the main point : few people are lazy (and dont use full potential of class bcs it req too much effort. Yup, sometimes i got the same, for example on meta-events) or simply just "dont feel" this ele, while other few people know every single spell and also can plan few moves forward - so they always got spells they want for every situation and deal tons of damage while still are untouchable. Try balance that. To buff ele they must first take something, maybe increase cd between attunements? Or otherway ele will be Monster of the game, capable to do everything - tank bosses while healing yourself and others, and also deal top dps? You really wanna that?
the issue isnt pve.
"Any path that narrows future possibilities may become a lethal trap. Humans do not thread their way through a maze; they scan a vast horizon filled with unique opportunities." - The Spacing Guild Handbook.
@gonzi.7605 said:
There is no such thing as "perfect balance" you mention. Ele even today can bring almost highest dps in the game - highest on large targets/AoE, second highest to small/single target right after deadeye with rifle. Ele also got a lot of survival skills on demand while other classes dont. Thats my opinion and also a lot of people - you can see that on every benchmark.
And you tell me ele is in wrong place? So please tell me what you expect. As far as i can see its pretty good right now. Do i want ele buffed? Nope. Already there is too many ele around who cant do anything useful and just put the blame on class and balance. Ele is one of the hardest classes to master - not without the reason. If already i got highest dmg in almost every raid on weaver and im pretty good on pvp (even few times i fought with 3 enemies at once... i survived, kill them and all that time i stayed on point) then with buffs the class gonna be too OP.
That's the main point : few people are lazy (and dont use full potential of class bcs it req too much effort. Yup, sometimes i got the same, for example on meta-events) or simply just "dont feel" this ele, while other few people know every single spell and also can plan few moves forward - so they always got spells they want for every situation and deal tons of damage while still are untouchable. Try balance that. To buff ele they must first take something, maybe increase cd between attunements? Or otherway ele will be Monster of the game, capable to do everything - tank bosses while healing yourself and others, and also deal top dps? You really wanna that?
Looking at the benchmarks on SC then saying its almost top dps doesnt prove anything. This has mainly 2 reasons: 1. On huge its RNG grinded, on small its less RNG i think.Btth build cant be trusted because it relies on the length of the fight. Also if you take into consideration the ele rotation vs DD rotation and look at the 900 dps difference you will see what am talking about. Also, raids are not all about standing on the boss and hitting it till it dies.
2.There is the holo build(riffle) its like 3k lower than ele but in raids it performs same or even better+ has more utility than ele on sword by this i mean mass CC without DPS loss(more if dps loss isnt a problem) perma 25 vuln, self efficent might/fury upkeep. Thief does more damage on small hitbox no matter what, almost everyone can do that rotation close to being perfect while on ele its kinda hard but still not impossible, but when a phase comes in a thief only needs to stop AA ing and he already did his reset, while ele on the other hand has some other things to do.
And these were only 2 classes, theres DH with Aegis spam too + condi classes and pChrono too.
But as someone said, ele has problems in PvP/WvW game mode, in PvE its kinda playable, before the ditch of staff weaver it was used because it did insane damage and burst so it was not used because it was that useful for the team but because it was good when someone could play it and got a horde of support around them. A lot of people didnt really understood at that time that ele is broken because supports(mainly chrono with the boon spam and the arcane traitline) were broken and ele had a trait that got use of that.
Darevil/deadeye do better with >>>>>>>>>3 <<<<<<<<<<<< skills, renegade higher DPS too (a bit more complicated). Staff weaver is not even listed as staff is complete kitten now. And now look at the recommendations : thief, renegade, mirage, DH, Holo ...
Look at the build : Hammer, FGS, storm; Look at the rotation : Hammer, FGS, storm + 34 skills
Other classes can do better in instance : they add vulnerability, more conditions, more cc, boons, boonstrip, easier rotation, more sustain, more cleave, pull , (mid)range/melee.... What weaver/elem is good for : ??????? Burst in fractals ???
And you tell me weaver elem is fine ???
PvP/WvW : healing power + vitality mandatory in all builds, 80% of utility skills totally useless (pvp and pve, condi, power support ...same everywhere), weak elite skills, no boonstrip, ; no sustain no condicleanse without healing power and water/arcane, but no dps without air/fire, no swap range/meleee ; sword : no block, no counter attack, standstill skills without counterpart, no range + useless AA / no cleave, long cast, long cd, useless "no mechanic" of weak barriers, poor target tracking; no good "temporary" dmg buff.
All specs too focused on respective attunements, attunement swap and so weapon skills, not on utility skills and general play.
They nerfed the only "viable" dps build : fresh air and the counterpart ? They up #2 fire scepter ...
Oh yeah we can play "bunker", like the only viable option since HoT.
So yes, you can be the top DPS, because you're better than the other, of course you can chain noobs or survive 5 minutes against 3 foes; but you can do that with half the efforts and half the keyboard with an other class.
This isn't about being a noob or not; it's just about the class potential, and maths; and master elem is not that rewarding . Play weaver or tempest, then play soulbeast, holo, mirage, herald, FB, thief ... simpler and stronger.
Weaver is only picked because of its burst damage, that's why it shines in fractals, but still you need tons of support to achieve anything on it, you need every boon to not mess up the rotation and perhaps in a raid environment, even a master at the class that requires a sheet of skills for a rotation can agree that a DD/DE can oust them because of how forgiving their rotation is when under pressure whether they mess up a bit or the easiness of their rotation. And benchmarks don't mean anything all the time because the golem is a static target for 2mins without any environment damage or movement, even if that's the case, try achieving a benchmark with staff weaver, look at the RNG you'll get and how many attempts you'll need. And if benchmarks still meant that much, SC has weaver as meta on 1/2 bosses, check other DPS classes that their benchmarks are of lower tier. Benchmarks are nothing but setting the damage potential when in a perfect scenario and against a static target, it's like which class has the maximum potential of skills: Engi with kits or weaver with conjures, it doesn't mean that you can go with either of these builds and expect wonders.
Squad support wise, it has literally nothing when going for damage, the only time I feel like I can support anyone is by cleaving as much as possible (that's in Open World mostly), because I can't press one or two buttons and out of a sudden my trait lines synergize perfectly to acquire tons of might stacks, fury, etc., you bring nothing but pure damage and even the utilities are nothing but numbers, no cc, boons, nothing, just a number and how long this number lasts, other classes can apply perma vuln., might, fury, etc. without messing up their damage (a bit sometimes), that is if weaver has any of these things built-in there weapon's DPS skills or utilities, and topping the DPS chart by 500-1000 DPS still shows nothing about effectiveness, when you think about: who applies vuln, who can cc, who can rely on less boons yet pull out enough damage, etc. which shows how ele won't compete without what other DPS and support classes offer to them, and perhaps this is in a raid scenario where all the support is present, now remove this and look at what ele would be. As a support, it is useless without a chrono and it still brings nothing but burst heals only which other classes perform with even better group support, buffs and yet higher dps.
4 Attunements are literally nothing but wasted extra 10 skills that are out of use because how awful the trait lines are preventing anything beside fire/air or water/earth, making ele's skills deal less damage because they have twice the amount of abilities but that's not the case, a class that can use a skill or two, ele has to use 4/5 skills on the other hand to match the same damage consistency, you even swap attunement while still using a skill from a past attunement given how fast you need to fit in tons of skills, the case here is not class complexity - in fact I play the class for that - but it's not dealing enough damage on some attunements which adds nothing to the class and the lack of survivability.
Even in solo PvE, talking about a DPS class, any other DPS going solo exploring can deal more damage than ele. Reaper for example, the bottom DPS of all classes on SC site, can still burst out more damage when solo because they can maintain boons, let alone other DPS classes. Even with higher DPS when solo, they have higher survivability and give out boons and apply non damaging condis.
In PvP or roaming, it's not even worth the effort because the maths behind your skills won't let you get what you want, what's the point of healing a ton and having as much in evades with 0 pressure, if the enemy can maintain a consistent damage source while still making distance or apply some cc, ele is nothing but a set of cards, once you're out of them, the enemy bombards you with ease because they needn't use their defensive skills at all while weaver was dancing around as the pressure was negligible.
The only case I would say ele is a competing role it would be fractals because of its burst. In WvW zerg fights, it's still relevant though but your top damage is one skill, so I would say a Revenant is still more reliable, yet ele's stable fields are highly lethal sometimes as they can hit and run only in zerg fights.
Now all these issues don't mean that ele is terrible by a huge margin at each of their aspects, ele still has highest burst and great cleave but these problems require thorough balance patches than just hit or miss, hoping you can hit once. It shows what should be expected from a DPS glass cannon class that is competing with other glass/non-glass better cannons, as the class fails to offer enough or none at all, what others can with yet minimum losses
@gonzi.7605 said:
There is no such thing as "perfect balance" you mention. Ele even today can bring almost highest dps in the game - highest on large targets/AoE, second highest to small/single target right after deadeye with rifle. Ele also got a lot of survival skills on demand while other classes dont. Thats my opinion and also a lot of people - you can see that on every benchmark.
And you tell me ele is in wrong place? So please tell me what you expect. As far as i can see its pretty good right now. Do i want ele buffed? Nope. Already there is too many ele around who cant do anything useful and just put the blame on class and balance. Ele is one of the hardest classes to master - not without the reason. If already i got highest dmg in almost every raid on weaver and im pretty good on pvp (even few times i fought with 3 enemies at once... i survived, kill them and all that time i stayed on point) then with buffs the class gonna be too OP.
That's the main point : few people are lazy (and dont use full potential of class bcs it req too much effort. Yup, sometimes i got the same, for example on meta-events) or simply just "dont feel" this ele, while other few people know every single spell and also can plan few moves forward - so they always got spells they want for every situation and deal tons of damage while still are untouchable. Try balance that. To buff ele they must first take something, maybe increase cd between attunements? Or otherway ele will be Monster of the game, capable to do everything - tank bosses while healing yourself and others, and also deal top dps? You really wanna that?
Its not about perfect balance its about letting clases have the abitly to play all rolls and to have all effects in the game if you build that way VS classes who simply have these effects for free.
Ele as a class lacks a lot of effects in gw2 but gets nothing for it. At the same time other classes have most if not all of the effects in the game with out needed to build for them at all.
Ele pays for its dmg even when your not playing a dmg build ele pays for its support even when your not playing support. That because ele dmg / support is very much tide to the gear your running. Other classes get dmg from being that class alone or support with out paying such a high cost. Often you find these classes dont need to build all in to fill a roll like ele MUST. Filling that roll as an ele comes at the cost of def or utitly (or dmg if your going support). As well as missing out on major boon effects and boon counter effects.
If you would take this game with all of its effects and make it into a new game the ele class would be cut from the game as it simply dose not fit.
Lazy ppl play the meta the meta is 3 classes and an elite skill ele is NOT the meta at any game type. This would not be a problem if there was real imagination in combat and combos but all of that has been profoundly ignored by anet. GW2 is simply not GW2 any more and any thing that did not get the right amount of power creep is not a real class any more and there is nothing the player base can do about it as these post are falling on unwanted ears (yes anet reads the forms but its not changing there minds at all).
I've got all classes to 80. I've got all the class trait lines completed. I've watched, sometimes i've complained. Now i'm just tired, and barely log in on any class. I'm not even sure I should bother explaining anything to any of you, let alone leave a post in the back water of these forums that no one will ever really see or care about.
Everyone in this thread has an uneducated opinion about how to balance ele, even the people against buffing ele. This is a fact, not a question - its not even up for debate. I mean, people have a few points correct, but miss a lot either because they weren't here or have no idea how the game was intended to be.
At the start even before beta, we were intended to have dual classes. The devs couldn't make this work and so it was canned before it ever saw the light of day, although it was several years in development before it was dropped. I can only speculate about the impact that had on all classes across the board. Since we are playing a game with single classes in a game that was originally designed from the ground to incorporate dual classes I'm guessing the effect was quite profound.
Anyway we ended up with the ele with a stat deficiency compared to all the other classes.
Ele was a powerful class at the start. People didn't know how to play it, and it generally sucked until people realized that although the skill ceiling was high, so was the potential of the class. During this phase of the classes life it had stun breaks and condition removal taken away. Most of these changes were fairly random and poorly thought out, even more so when you can look back and see exactly how bad a lot of these decisions were in hindsight.
Lets jump ahead to HoT, because this is where things get a little stupid again. So, originally the core ele had auras linked to signets. Auras were part of the base class. Sure they kinda suck, but point being, they were core ele. So with the release of HoT auras were taken away from signets and made part of Tempest by way of shouts. Wait, What? Ok, so they TOOK a part of core ele. Removed it from core ele. Added back as part of Tempest. Never replaced what they TOOK from core ele. Fantastic. So now we have an incomplete core class, with a half baked trait line dumped on top of it. Keep in mind, during this phase, core and tempest were hit with a bunch more nerfs to both damage and regen. Oh, and auras still kinda suck even though they moved them from core to Tempest because it was a rushed job on a half baked trait line that wasn't complete and couldn't actually stand on its own.
Ok, so the longer this gets the longer my jumps through ele history are, because I really have no interest anymore and going into complete detail isn't worth it, as its been rehashed by players and ignored by devs for so long now that it isn't important. Lets just get straight to the now (because I just can't be bothered to go through the PoF era). Currently we have another trait line, weaver, that removes access to important skills all the time, based on a core class that isn't even complete anymore, and has been nerfed to the bottom. Although now it appears a new eager intern is making some really cute attempts to make auras useful.
Can this really be fixed without a complete back end revamp? I doubt it. I'm also not interested in waiting around to see if it can be done either. The game just feels like there is too much work for the dev staff and this means the players (the customers) have to wait extended time in order for anything to get done. The time frame on balancing (not just for ele) is ridiculous. Through the years I was hoping that maybe time and experience would allow balance and development to get smoother. It hasn't. The game feels like the staff is constantly new and in training.
There is a ton more that could be said, I guess this is just my TL:DR
See you around the game, or not. Whatever.
Just to tap this topic one more time because i'm bored. It seems just a little dumb to have a single class with the lowest of all stats.
It has no weapon swap because it has attunements. I'm sure someone somewhere will start chirping about the amount of skills. Lets be clear all ele skills are balanced to have higher cool downs BECAUSE eles have so many. They also have attument cool downs on those skill cool downs. So why don't eles have weapon swap again? Oh, this is where someone chimes in about sigils proccing and forgets that they have internal cool downs (and any that don't, probably should).
Lets not forget that ele is a 2 - 3 line require treat class. If it wants go to melee it must take at least water and arcain or earth or both. If ele wants to do dmg it must take air and fire. With next to no overlap in effect of dmg and support on the trate lines make ele builds are very non imaginative. Its only gotten worst with the tempest def update taking away more def from a dmg line making things all the worst.
Its out right boring to even try to do builds for ele now because they are all the same its only the gear combos that are some what diffrent and even them are very bland for there chose.
Comments
Then you would have issues cause you need the whole traitline for the specific buff and the rest of the traits might not be very usefull in your playstyle. Better make 3 traits in the same tier then and you have to choose one of the three.
Am I making it clear? I feel i got pretty confused there haha
Let's say the 3 adept or master traits in the tempest trait line are like these:
1. Auras give fury and swiftness
2. Auras give regen and vigor
3. Auras gives might and protection
And now you have to pick one of these one at a time.
Woaw ... i mean it might be a really good idea to improve ele gameplay i think ... or maybe make it too powerfull? with some strange combination. But really good honestly
Who profession have a spec that freezes an enemy?
( ) Elementalist
( ) Necromancer
( ) Ranger
Oh, you said Elementalist? You're wrong.
Revamp Arcane and Water to be useful.
Put the conjures, glyphs, signets etc in Arcane.
DPS with Water, please.
Besides other suggestions, I think 20% cooldown reduction as a major trait the wrong way - they use to be the best option nowadays. I'm not sure this is the best solution, but maybe as a minor trait for each specialization (including arcane) will let one major trait more valuable than now (a new one).
Water is support spec, like Tempest and it does its job, there is no need to change it
I am not going to lie these boons are worthless to give out with auras because every class even the non support aimed classes give these boons out to other ppl. To have them on auras simply makes them harder for ele to pull off then the other classes who are giving them out passively.
That and the boons named are far weaker then stab, quickness, resistances and alacrity all witch ele cant give out.
See ELE forms and you will get my views.
I think the boons on aura traits really need to be on the specific elemental traitlines. This way, core ele and weaver can use them, while tempest can share them.
Fire:
- adept: auras pulse might
- master: fire auras last longer and pulse resistance
This way you have an option to go with fire auras to deal with conditions instead of water, but then you will not cleanse them so easily and risk taking a lot of condi dmg if you cant keep fire auras up or if you get corrupted/striped. A different playstyle that can be used as an alternative or complementary to the current cleanse (water). Auras pulsing might will make them a good way to build might, but slower than overloads, with fire aura (due to increased duration) providing more might than the others.
Air:
- adept: auras give fury and swiftness
- master: static auras give superspeed, when you apply superspeed, you also apply quickness
This way you can apply quickness to yourself with auras or without (weaver superspeed traits, superspeed in air attune) making a good way to combo bursts. With static aura giving superspeed and quickness you can then provide constant quickness and superspeed to the group with FA tempest. This can be further comboed with fire to give might/fury/quickness between fire attune and air attune with FA, that can be then increased with warhorn alternating heatsink and sandsquall.
water:
- adept: auras give regen and vigor
- master: frost auras give regen, heal when you apply an aura
This way you can have auras healing in other specs beside tempest, while tempest would focus to spread the auras to other players (with aura share or shouts and overloads). with the heal trait in water, core ele can use the auras to get some sustain and by using both traits frost aura can remove 2 conditions (in combo with the GM that removes conditions when giving regen). This makes the water line the cleansing line, while fire can resist conditions.
earth:
- adept: auras give protection
- master: magnetic auras pulse stability
With magnetic aura providing stability, staff can now use it to try to cast its long cast AoEs. Tempest would have a good access to stability (shout, overload, sandsquall or staff) providing a good amount of stability to the group without it being too common.
Arcane:
- master: arcane shield is considered an aura for the purpose of traits, apply arcane shield when below 50% hp
With arcane shield becoming an aura, core ele can use it to further provide itself buffs, while tempest can use it to share a block to the group, giving a arcane tempest a good way to provide utility to avoid big hits in the squad. In combination with the arcane traits and fire, fire/arcane/tempest could be a great buffer and condi spec focusing on burn and providing aura and burns to the group (with shared arcane shield and arcane power providing extra burns)
Well my concern was to have more place to get brand new traits while for now it almost feels like each trait line has a copy/paste scheme from most traits (such as boons on auras and attunement specific skills cooldown reduction) and I thought it was not that healthy for the class. That's why I suggested one and only trait in that case.
Having an aura application / detonation in master level for all element types dose fit ele and would fill an logic out come of added them in the first places. Core specs getting core effects on core weapons. It would world and help out core ele a lot as well as its elite spec in the long run just at a cost of giving up an core element line. It would be a real cost for running an elite spec line and give ele players a real chose.
I would not go for the same way as the person set up to go but its far better then what ele has now.
In some ways ele should not be about boons but be about its auras / detonation. It would give ele a real class roll with out getting taped in this rat races of boons balancing.
See ELE forms and you will get my views.
You basically hit the nail on the head, I'd have to say ele is probably the hardest class for Arena net to balance though. Ele is the jack of all trades, they either end up doing TOO much of everything or just not enough to be relevant. It's a hard sweet spot to find.
give ele 4k hp, done.
"Any path that narrows future possibilities may become a lethal trap. Humans do not thread their way through a maze; they scan a vast horizon filled with unique opportunities." - The Spacing Guild Handbook.
Beware the meta!
There is no class in the game that has less then ele every one is a jack of all trades the only thing classes lack in this game are powerful boons counter to though boons and unblockables. Out side of that all classes can dmg tank and support. The thing is ele is the only class in the game whom is lacking nearly all of these effects there realty no class in the game whom has so few effects.
Ele is the non of all trades it only started out as the jack of all trades and this description is very very out dated.
See ELE forms and you will get my views.
Ele was the first class I made. That was mistake #1, then I boosted my ele at about level 20, that was mistake #2. Then I suffered through playing a super squishy hybrid stat ele through HoT and put it away and only touched it for its artificer abilities, that was the first thing I did right. Recently after a long time of playing, 9 characters to 80 with both elites done, lots of raids, and tons of gameplay under my belt I pulled my ele out to fess in the lunatic armor I made this Halloween. I made right choice #2 going full zerkers to max his damage and rely on the playing skills developed in fractals and raids to keep “Mr. Squishy” ,as I think of him, alive and do significant damage enough to be useful. I found the skills developed playing support chrono make it possible for a lowly human to play an ele effectively instead of cuthulu alone having a monopoly on effective ele play thanks to a multitude of tentacles with which to play the keyboard like an organ. The tempest skill splitting remains clunky and slow. Attacks cast time is far too long and easily interrupted consuming the skill for nothing. Granted a great ele player can make mincemeat of both mobs and other players, but as it is such a popular first class - it needs more damage to be survivable or more base toughness. Weapons swap would be a game changer too allowing a second weapon set for close combat and staff for distance with its slower cast times and higher damage. Giving ele a fighting chance when mobs and players close in. The sword with weaver was a nice touch but ele is too squishy for close combat you could even allow distance attacks with the sword and dagger like Mesmer has with great sword. Otherwise play with a druid or support rev at your side and do your best.
Did anyone else noticed that this thread was reduced by 3 pages? anet moderators up and about again x)
I remember when this thread used to be 15 pages long. So, it looks like the mods frequent this particular thread quite a bit, but do nothing to relay the suggestions we have to the developers, or provide any feedback here. What a shame.
Broski Supreme - Borsk Carry Effect - Condi Ele Pioneer
First of all, i play engi, elem, war, mesmer and core guard.
As i say in an other post :
The problem here is that ppl mix between love playing a profession and knowing how to play it,
Weaver is not a class for everybody, there's a few gooooood weavers there, the rest !!? averages or bads.
Buffing Elem (Weaver) at the moment gonna just make Averages/bads weavers good and Good Weavers.... GODS.
Troll since 1988.
Speaking for Elementalist in sPvP (mostly) and Open World (somewhat):
I am deeply enjoying my Weaver experience with Sword/Focus. I feel as if this weapon choice negates a lot of the complaints about survivability in this thread. There may, however, be a fundamental survivability issue with the other weapon choices... Sw/Fo has the satisfying feel of a "battlemage" archetype, but I can also see why the general populace may want to see the ranged caster archetype as a viable option.
To be more specific, my build uses Glyph of Elemental Power and Primordial Stance to dish out massive condition damage, and I can just evade while I watch everything around me bleed and burn to death. Probably not an optimal DPS build, but I've certainly outlasted my allies in battle time and time again. I use Earth specialization for the Stone Heart and suddenly I don't instantly die to a deadeye, burst mesmer, or warrior.
I just wanted to share my success story with regards to Ele, since everyone here seems to be speaking negatively about balance issues. Don't forget to mention what you already like! I've found a build that works for me and has the general feel I enjoy in a character. I cannot speak for tempests or power-based builds, other than the fact that I know outright that I will defeat them in a 1v1... I guess that says something, though.
Despite my general success, I do see (from reading, mostly) a few fundamental issues I think could use some attention:
1) (ranged) Elementalists don't feel like a caster that should be feared, other than their one meteor shower if you're not paying attention.
2) Conjure Weapons still don't feel useful in most circumstances. I would love to see a re-work of these with a creative new way to bring them in to a class who relies heavily on swapping what's available in skills 1-5.
Recommendation for the others posting to this thread: try to clearly state the problems you're experiencing, rather than suggesting specific skill re-vamps or changes as solutions. We need to fully understand the problems and arrive at a few fundamental issues that we the player-base can agree upon. Then, the developers can, well, develop, solutions that address these problems involving specific skill, trait, or mechanic changes. Oh, and don't forget to mention the things that you really like, as well, because you wouldn't want to see those go away!
This implies that it's impossible for Anet to buff non-sword weaver builds and tempest builds without buffing the sword build. I don't buy it. Just because the sword build could potentially get crazy, it is no excuse for them to ignore the problems with ele.
From this point of view, i totally agree with you.
Troll since 1988.
Anet listen!
The short way to " help / fix " Elementalist: < increase BASE HEALTH >
The " long " way:
Final Shielding ICD DOWN to 30 and BLOCKS INFINITE DAMAGE for 3 seonds.
Zephyr's Speed Move faster while attuned to air. ????? WHY only AIR ? its a useless trait .. because all Elementalists have 33% speed Boon.... Remove it Rework it- make it 3-5 seconds Superspeed when switching to Air. Or give it 3-5 seconds Fury when switching to Air. USELESS TRAIT!
*Pyromancer's Puissance ->> each skill your are in Fire = 2-3 Might | in other attunements 1 might.
Soothing Mist: Number of Targets: 5 -> 10 Targets .Radius: 600 -> 900
Powerful Aura : 5 Targets -> 10 targets. Radius 600 -> 900
Cleansing Wave (trait): 5 Targets -> 10 Targets
Weaver:
Twin Strike: Range 130 -> 180
Pyro Vortex: Range 130 -> 180
Lava Skin: Remove CAST TIME
Shearing Edge: Rework it .. its a bad skill.. dont know its just a bad skill . . .
Natural Frenzy: no changes, i like this skill
Gale Strike: Range 170 -> 180
Utility:
Mist Form: CD 60 -> 30 or Maximum Count: 2
Armor of Earth: CD 50 -> 25 or Maximum Count: 2
Lightning Flash: Since its last nerf from 1200 to 900 Range -> Maximum Count: 2
Arcane Shield: Duration 3 seconds and can block infinite; CD reduce to 20 or Maximum Count: 2
Cleansing Fire: revert break stun.; Reduce cooldown to 20 or Maximum Count: 2
Elite Skills:
ohm.... Give Elementalists finally 1 good Elite skill. I think we are the only class without an elite skill.
Let us pick some utility instead.
Thank You Anet!
Sadly, this will never be read by an anet employee or acted upon, and ele will remain stale, dead, and bottom tier in every competitive game mode.
But hey, they have plenty of ideas for their loot crates...I mean black lion chest...
I just went over to my necro, not in the best state, but better then Elementalist imo
especially Scourge.
The problem im seeing with tempest, is that its a immobile turret spec spewing out attacks most of the time. The rotation im seeing on snowcrows is to stand in one place throw lightning.The range on the scepter is not great and to do its full damage you have to stand still to charge up lightning or even the glyph of storms.
I feel like some sort of reduction on mist form or some sort of access to aegis would be nice, since I have to stand still to cast these and in close range and get pummeled to death while casting lightning storm, at least for the damage it does.
The snowcrows build says use lightning orb overload air and lightning storm then wilfire phoenix dragons tooth then dust storm conjure lightning hammer invoke lightning overload air dragontooth lightning orb again conjure fiery greatsword fiery rush firestorm and overload air
You got some good aoe attacks, but even the discretize one is super slow casts and you got to get into melee range, increasing odds of getting downed and killed.
Some of that lost sustain is needed for these to work in melee range, because you are going to take a hit.
What if something was changed to make the next cast instant on the channeling spells? you could have a rotation even if its not all instant so at least you have a rotation involving making channel casts instant in melee range, since you run the risk of death in hard fractals.
You could always split the skills, after all: The channels are pretty long, giving plenty of time for monsters to kill you
.
Here is my list of characters i got so far:
Elementalist 80 with tempest:Talman nul
Necromancer 80 with reaper:Zex vokar
Mesmer level 80 no chrono yet:Klanga voosh.
Level 80 Ranger with druid spec Jedkhan.
You guys still haven't smelled that they have left maybe tops 5 people to "fix classes" and everyone else is working on the living world season episodes to justify all the money they got?
Smelled, disgusted, and left the building. Moved on to other games.
Same here buddy, currently on Warframe and a few others x) even AION is worth more time than this
Just gone through the whole of the Mass Effect series aswell as Rocket League ^-^
Boy, this happens with all classes.
Isn't a reason to won't revamp a class.
@System , you did a great job with Guardian Staff (changing only 2 skills) please do the same with Elementalist.
Could add chain attacks to fire and water, in Earth change to something like Rock Barrer/Hurl and the skill animation Wave of Wrath could replace it.
If possible, add another weapon to Elem core, like a mace or a torch. Elem has few options with weapons.
As I posted in the aura thread, I think the only change ele needs right now is to move Powerful Aura from the Water Trait Line and make it a Grandmaster in Arcane. This would allow eles to not always have to spec to Water in order to run an Aura build. You might actually take Earth for the Protection boost, or Fire for the condi cleansing.
Core ele has quite pathetic aura support though. Powerful aura shouldnt be more than a minor on tempest, a spec that actually focuses on auras.
Deso's favorite FROG
Master of afk and kiting
The God of Pips and Gud Deeps
Froggo himself
Ele needs weapons specified to carry one thing, all weapons now have a full package but half of the it is wasted because of the trait lines themed around the attunements, you spam all damage dealers and then camp fire the whole time because it carries all multipliers yet provides 0 defense: add trait lines like arcane but actually useful because arcane is the worst line now especially after last update damage wise and boon uptime is a joke. Ele will always be locked into either earth/water or fire/air because the trait lines that kind of unlock the attunements to be useful. Weapons and trait lines are awful and perhaps a weapon swap like what weaver would have been would be great one weapon carries 2 attunements with the ability to reach other attunements with another weapon that can carry out these attunements better and focus on this mechanic with the trait lines and utilites. Allow ele to specialize in one role and nothing else besides and forget about the jack-of-all-trades concept because other professions can fit in any role with 2 e-specs.
And for once, stop nerfing core to take down an e-spec, this isn't a solution amongst all professions, because any further changes that will be taken to the e-spec then will be the death of the profession.
I bet anyone would love to know in the balance patch why some adjustments were done and how harmful were things before the change, allow the community to least share an insight on what's going on.
Happy New Year everyone! I still have concerns for 2019.
6 months today and still no real dev response. There are still massive problems and they have only gotten worst from the last update.
See ELE forms and you will get my views.
I was thinking people stopped posting here, seems like its not that way
Maybe for another 6 months but only these light bumbs to keep showing anet they not used this at all and in fact seems to be going out of there way to do want the ele community dose not want.
See ELE forms and you will get my views.
The thing i do not understand is that Anet keeps telling they want balance in the game, but actually they do not do anything important to get it done. What i mean is, GW has a very big community, they could find people for ALL game modes for ALL classes and ALL builds ever played who could explain them what to change to maintain the perfect balance, but NO they change stuff that they think causes the imbalance.
I mean changing stuff they think is a good way to start it, no question , but when you fail to bring balance after the X th balance patch, you should consider asking someone who basically lives on GW, but this is only my opinion about it maybe am wrong
Your not wrong, they 'should' be consulting with key stakeholders, i.e experienced representation of the ele player base. They should also have sufficient fingers on the pulse to recognise fundamentals of their own design e.g it should be bleedingly obvious that you need to spend 1.1k on heal/vitality as an ele to simply be able to survive in a skirmish, leaving 1.1k to spread across toughness/crit/power/condy in a class that has hybrid skills and 1 viable build that is melee!! You really don't need to be a rocket scientist to see the flaw there.
"Any path that narrows future possibilities may become a lethal trap. Humans do not thread their way through a maze; they scan a vast horizon filled with unique opportunities." - The Spacing Guild Handbook.
Beware the meta!
There is no such thing as "perfect balance" you mention. Ele even today can bring almost highest dps in the game - highest on large targets/AoE, second highest to small/single target right after deadeye with rifle. Ele also got a lot of survival skills on demand while other classes dont. Thats my opinion and also a lot of people - you can see that on every benchmark.
And you tell me ele is in wrong place? So please tell me what you expect. As far as i can see its pretty good right now. Do i want ele buffed? Nope. Already there is too many ele around who cant do anything useful and just put the blame on class and balance. Ele is one of the hardest classes to master - not without the reason. If already i got highest dmg in almost every raid on weaver and im pretty good on pvp (even few times i fought with 3 enemies at once... i survived, kill them and all that time i stayed on point) then with buffs the class gonna be too OP.
That's the main point : few people are lazy (and dont use full potential of class bcs it req too much effort. Yup, sometimes i got the same, for example on meta-events) or simply just "dont feel" this ele, while other few people know every single spell and also can plan few moves forward - so they always got spells they want for every situation and deal tons of damage while still are untouchable. Try balance that. To buff ele they must first take something, maybe increase cd between attunements? Or otherway ele will be Monster of the game, capable to do everything - tank bosses while healing yourself and others, and also deal top dps? You really wanna that?
the issue isnt pve.
"Any path that narrows future possibilities may become a lethal trap. Humans do not thread their way through a maze; they scan a vast horizon filled with unique opportunities." - The Spacing Guild Handbook.
Beware the meta!
Looking at the benchmarks on SC then saying its almost top dps doesnt prove anything. This has mainly 2 reasons: 1. On huge its RNG grinded, on small its less RNG i think.Btth build cant be trusted because it relies on the length of the fight. Also if you take into consideration the ele rotation vs DD rotation and look at the 900 dps difference you will see what am talking about. Also, raids are not all about standing on the boss and hitting it till it dies.
2.There is the holo build(riffle) its like 3k lower than ele but in raids it performs same or even better+ has more utility than ele on sword by this i mean mass CC without DPS loss(more if dps loss isnt a problem) perma 25 vuln, self efficent might/fury upkeep. Thief does more damage on small hitbox no matter what, almost everyone can do that rotation close to being perfect while on ele its kinda hard but still not impossible, but when a phase comes in a thief only needs to stop AA ing and he already did his reset, while ele on the other hand has some other things to do.
And these were only 2 classes, theres DH with Aegis spam too + condi classes and pChrono too.
But as someone said, ele has problems in PvP/WvW game mode, in PvE its kinda playable, before the ditch of staff weaver it was used because it did insane damage and burst so it was not used because it was that useful for the team but because it was good when someone could play it and got a horde of support around them. A lot of people didnt really understood at that time that ele is broken because supports(mainly chrono with the boon spam and the arcane traitline) were broken and ele had a trait that got use of that.
Darevil/deadeye do better with >>>>>>>>>3 <<<<<<<<<<<< skills, renegade higher DPS too (a bit more complicated). Staff weaver is not even listed as staff is complete kitten now. And now look at the recommendations : thief, renegade, mirage, DH, Holo ...
Look at the build : Hammer, FGS, storm; Look at the rotation : Hammer, FGS, storm + 34 skills
Other classes can do better in instance : they add vulnerability, more conditions, more cc, boons, boonstrip, easier rotation, more sustain, more cleave, pull , (mid)range/melee.... What weaver/elem is good for : ??????? Burst in fractals ???
And you tell me weaver elem is fine ???
PvP/WvW : healing power + vitality mandatory in all builds, 80% of utility skills totally useless (pvp and pve, condi, power support ...same everywhere), weak elite skills, no boonstrip, ; no sustain no condicleanse without healing power and water/arcane, but no dps without air/fire, no swap range/meleee ; sword : no block, no counter attack, standstill skills without counterpart, no range + useless AA / no cleave, long cast, long cd, useless "no mechanic" of weak barriers, poor target tracking; no good "temporary" dmg buff.
All specs too focused on respective attunements, attunement swap and so weapon skills, not on utility skills and general play.
They nerfed the only "viable" dps build : fresh air and the counterpart ? They up #2 fire scepter ...
Oh yeah we can play "bunker", like the only viable option since HoT.
So yes, you can be the top DPS, because you're better than the other, of course you can chain noobs or survive 5 minutes against 3 foes; but you can do that with half the efforts and half the keyboard with an other class.
This isn't about being a noob or not; it's just about the class potential, and maths; and master elem is not that rewarding . Play weaver or tempest, then play soulbeast, holo, mirage, herald, FB, thief ... simpler and stronger.
Nah, DH bursts higher and iirc SLB too
Weaver is only picked because of its burst damage, that's why it shines in fractals, but still you need tons of support to achieve anything on it, you need every boon to not mess up the rotation and perhaps in a raid environment, even a master at the class that requires a sheet of skills for a rotation can agree that a DD/DE can oust them because of how forgiving their rotation is when under pressure whether they mess up a bit or the easiness of their rotation. And benchmarks don't mean anything all the time because the golem is a static target for 2mins without any environment damage or movement, even if that's the case, try achieving a benchmark with staff weaver, look at the RNG you'll get and how many attempts you'll need. And if benchmarks still meant that much, SC has weaver as meta on 1/2 bosses, check other DPS classes that their benchmarks are of lower tier. Benchmarks are nothing but setting the damage potential when in a perfect scenario and against a static target, it's like which class has the maximum potential of skills: Engi with kits or weaver with conjures, it doesn't mean that you can go with either of these builds and expect wonders.
Squad support wise, it has literally nothing when going for damage, the only time I feel like I can support anyone is by cleaving as much as possible (that's in Open World mostly), because I can't press one or two buttons and out of a sudden my trait lines synergize perfectly to acquire tons of might stacks, fury, etc., you bring nothing but pure damage and even the utilities are nothing but numbers, no cc, boons, nothing, just a number and how long this number lasts, other classes can apply perma vuln., might, fury, etc. without messing up their damage (a bit sometimes), that is if weaver has any of these things built-in there weapon's DPS skills or utilities, and topping the DPS chart by 500-1000 DPS still shows nothing about effectiveness, when you think about: who applies vuln, who can cc, who can rely on less boons yet pull out enough damage, etc. which shows how ele won't compete without what other DPS and support classes offer to them, and perhaps this is in a raid scenario where all the support is present, now remove this and look at what ele would be. As a support, it is useless without a chrono and it still brings nothing but burst heals only which other classes perform with even better group support, buffs and yet higher dps.
4 Attunements are literally nothing but wasted extra 10 skills that are out of use because how awful the trait lines are preventing anything beside fire/air or water/earth, making ele's skills deal less damage because they have twice the amount of abilities but that's not the case, a class that can use a skill or two, ele has to use 4/5 skills on the other hand to match the same damage consistency, you even swap attunement while still using a skill from a past attunement given how fast you need to fit in tons of skills, the case here is not class complexity - in fact I play the class for that - but it's not dealing enough damage on some attunements which adds nothing to the class and the lack of survivability.
Even in solo PvE, talking about a DPS class, any other DPS going solo exploring can deal more damage than ele. Reaper for example, the bottom DPS of all classes on SC site, can still burst out more damage when solo because they can maintain boons, let alone other DPS classes. Even with higher DPS when solo, they have higher survivability and give out boons and apply non damaging condis.
In PvP or roaming, it's not even worth the effort because the maths behind your skills won't let you get what you want, what's the point of healing a ton and having as much in evades with 0 pressure, if the enemy can maintain a consistent damage source while still making distance or apply some cc, ele is nothing but a set of cards, once you're out of them, the enemy bombards you with ease because they needn't use their defensive skills at all while weaver was dancing around as the pressure was negligible.
The only case I would say ele is a competing role it would be fractals because of its burst. In WvW zerg fights, it's still relevant though but your top damage is one skill, so I would say a Revenant is still more reliable, yet ele's stable fields are highly lethal sometimes as they can hit and run only in zerg fights.
Now all these issues don't mean that ele is terrible by a huge margin at each of their aspects, ele still has highest burst and great cleave but these problems require thorough balance patches than just hit or miss, hoping you can hit once. It shows what should be expected from a DPS glass cannon class that is competing with other glass/non-glass better cannons, as the class fails to offer enough or none at all, what others can with yet minimum losses
Its not about perfect balance its about letting clases have the abitly to play all rolls and to have all effects in the game if you build that way VS classes who simply have these effects for free.
Ele as a class lacks a lot of effects in gw2 but gets nothing for it. At the same time other classes have most if not all of the effects in the game with out needed to build for them at all.
Ele pays for its dmg even when your not playing a dmg build ele pays for its support even when your not playing support. That because ele dmg / support is very much tide to the gear your running. Other classes get dmg from being that class alone or support with out paying such a high cost. Often you find these classes dont need to build all in to fill a roll like ele MUST. Filling that roll as an ele comes at the cost of def or utitly (or dmg if your going support). As well as missing out on major boon effects and boon counter effects.
If you would take this game with all of its effects and make it into a new game the ele class would be cut from the game as it simply dose not fit.
Lazy ppl play the meta the meta is 3 classes and an elite skill ele is NOT the meta at any game type. This would not be a problem if there was real imagination in combat and combos but all of that has been profoundly ignored by anet. GW2 is simply not GW2 any more and any thing that did not get the right amount of power creep is not a real class any more and there is nothing the player base can do about it as these post are falling on unwanted ears (yes anet reads the forms but its not changing there minds at all).
See ELE forms and you will get my views.
I've got all classes to 80. I've got all the class trait lines completed. I've watched, sometimes i've complained. Now i'm just tired, and barely log in on any class. I'm not even sure I should bother explaining anything to any of you, let alone leave a post in the back water of these forums that no one will ever really see or care about.
Everyone in this thread has an uneducated opinion about how to balance ele, even the people against buffing ele. This is a fact, not a question - its not even up for debate. I mean, people have a few points correct, but miss a lot either because they weren't here or have no idea how the game was intended to be.
At the start even before beta, we were intended to have dual classes. The devs couldn't make this work and so it was canned before it ever saw the light of day, although it was several years in development before it was dropped. I can only speculate about the impact that had on all classes across the board. Since we are playing a game with single classes in a game that was originally designed from the ground to incorporate dual classes I'm guessing the effect was quite profound.
Anyway we ended up with the ele with a stat deficiency compared to all the other classes.
Ele was a powerful class at the start. People didn't know how to play it, and it generally sucked until people realized that although the skill ceiling was high, so was the potential of the class. During this phase of the classes life it had stun breaks and condition removal taken away. Most of these changes were fairly random and poorly thought out, even more so when you can look back and see exactly how bad a lot of these decisions were in hindsight.
Lets jump ahead to HoT, because this is where things get a little stupid again. So, originally the core ele had auras linked to signets. Auras were part of the base class. Sure they kinda suck, but point being, they were core ele. So with the release of HoT auras were taken away from signets and made part of Tempest by way of shouts. Wait, What? Ok, so they TOOK a part of core ele. Removed it from core ele. Added back as part of Tempest. Never replaced what they TOOK from core ele. Fantastic. So now we have an incomplete core class, with a half baked trait line dumped on top of it. Keep in mind, during this phase, core and tempest were hit with a bunch more nerfs to both damage and regen. Oh, and auras still kinda suck even though they moved them from core to Tempest because it was a rushed job on a half baked trait line that wasn't complete and couldn't actually stand on its own.
Ok, so the longer this gets the longer my jumps through ele history are, because I really have no interest anymore and going into complete detail isn't worth it, as its been rehashed by players and ignored by devs for so long now that it isn't important. Lets just get straight to the now (because I just can't be bothered to go through the PoF era). Currently we have another trait line, weaver, that removes access to important skills all the time, based on a core class that isn't even complete anymore, and has been nerfed to the bottom. Although now it appears a new eager intern is making some really cute attempts to make auras useful.
Can this really be fixed without a complete back end revamp? I doubt it. I'm also not interested in waiting around to see if it can be done either. The game just feels like there is too much work for the dev staff and this means the players (the customers) have to wait extended time in order for anything to get done. The time frame on balancing (not just for ele) is ridiculous. Through the years I was hoping that maybe time and experience would allow balance and development to get smoother. It hasn't. The game feels like the staff is constantly new and in training.
There is a ton more that could be said, I guess this is just my TL:DR
See you around the game, or not. Whatever.
Just to tap this topic one more time because i'm bored. It seems just a little dumb to have a single class with the lowest of all stats.
It has no weapon swap because it has attunements. I'm sure someone somewhere will start chirping about the amount of skills. Lets be clear all ele skills are balanced to have higher cool downs BECAUSE eles have so many. They also have attument cool downs on those skill cool downs. So why don't eles have weapon swap again? Oh, this is where someone chimes in about sigils proccing and forgets that they have internal cool downs (and any that don't, probably should).
Eh. Forget it. I'm done complaining.
Lets not forget that ele is a 2 - 3 line require treat class. If it wants go to melee it must take at least water and arcain or earth or both. If ele wants to do dmg it must take air and fire. With next to no overlap in effect of dmg and support on the trate lines make ele builds are very non imaginative. Its only gotten worst with the tempest def update taking away more def from a dmg line making things all the worst.
Its out right boring to even try to do builds for ele now because they are all the same its only the gear combos that are some what diffrent and even them are very bland for there chose.
See ELE forms and you will get my views.