LucianTheAngelic.7054

It’s actually not something we came up, but has been stated by the creators of the class. It’s shown through the core mechanic and also reinforced through the fact that many many traits all encourage swapping. Legend swap even procs On Swap sigils, which was an intentional design feature. y’all are welcome to camp if you want, literally no one is stopping you, just do so with the understanding that it’s not the intended gameplay from the creator of the class and that you’ll be missing out on core mechanic and trait interactions. It’s VERY clear that Rev is meant to be played with swapping just as Elementalist is meant to swap between elements. Just like Rev people try to make “single element ele” work, but it’s not the intended gameplay and to claim that it’s an equivalent gameplay style or an intended gameplay variant is also, just like with Rev, fundamentally and objectively wrong. also ideas like the one I was responding to above (make herald facets into signets) directly seek to remove Rev’s uniqueness in order to make it more like other classes. That’s not what the class is and people need to get over it Again, play as you want! But don’t be surprised when this quest to make a “single legend camping Rev” work by changing many elements of how rev works is met with criticism since it isn’t the intended gameplay

This. I don’t understand why people just want Rev to be something it’s not. It has its own uniqueness as you said, people should let it be unique

This seems like a total nitpick, especially since most other quickness classes have both (far) less range and also have cast times on their quickness/alacrity skills. Having to wait a whopping ONE SECOND to have the easiest and best quickness generation in the game is not an issue. Plus once you have applied it you should be maintaining it 100% of the time after, so you only have to pay the "CD" for the quickness once, right at the beginning of the fight. This is 10000% a skill issue if you're not maintaining 99.9% quickness uptime on Herald and the "1s of downtime" at the beginning does not contribute to this at all. This is a baffling request honestly when there are so many other things that could be improved on. Like the level of irrelevance to this change is insane

These are actually opposite effects; glaring resolve is on stunbreak while contained temper is when you stun someone. So they're unfortunately not similar enough to assimilate. If anything is going to be assimilated it should be by fusing Cleansing Channel into Invoker's Rage. Both get their benefit from Legend Swapping and therefore could both be added together with minimal issue. They would then have to move a Major into a Minor (honestly Spirit Boon or Rapid Flow could both move down) and then they'd have to move Charged Mists or Song of the Mists down to Major. After that you would have your Grandmaster slot open. However, I'm still not super for it since it seems like too big of a gameplay change for a Core Grandmaster trait, especially since it's effectively adding mechanics. Most Grandmasters don't drastically change playstyles, only modify them. I think an Elite Spec would definitely fit this more because then they could do more with it as well. Unfortunately that would ofc preclude the Elites from gaining the new playstyle as well, but I think that would be fine

Honestly the only issue is that Invocation is one of the only traitlines where every trait can be fairly valuable. I wouldn't change any of the existing grandmasters to accomodate this. It's also a bit too much of a gameplay change; would likely make more sense as an Elite Spec Roiling Mists is also definitely not a trait that encourages camping; it's just a trait that gives a benefit for Fury (which is Invocation's whole thing). There are so many traits/skills that generate fury. Sure, Herald is the easiest one because you can camp the facet, but it's hardly the only way to get Fury for Rev

There's at least a few of us over here who know what's up, even if we don't always agree 😂

I've probably played quadruple the amount you have lmao. My point stands

If people aren’t reaching good uptimes on 100% bd heal builds then that’s a them problem honey Lmao

As long as the damage numbers are comparable it doesn’t matter if it achieves perma quickness with 0 BD or 100 BD. BD is arbitrary, the damage output is the important part

This is how the class has always been since its inception, it’s not new. You have never been meant to camp a legend

Y'all didn't read the thread or the replies. The issue is that they broadly nerfed ALL Rev power specs by hitting GS when they could have only hit Herald by hitting Reinforced Potency or Burst of Strength's modifiers. Herald was the only thing overperforming here. Anet once again as always overthinks the solution and does too much. Read my replies for how it could have been done much better and more efficiently

This has been a problem even when GS was only part of the "power budget" of Vindicator, though. "GS + S/S" has only been marginally better than "GS Only" since the beginning. The solution however was NOT to nerf GS, but to actually make S/S a more viable weaponset. S/S Autoattacks still actually have nerfs on them from when they weren't skill splitting; during the early days of Rev the weaponset got hit fairly hard due to Rev's dominance in PvP. Some of these nerfs never have received compensation in PvE. I left part of this out of my previous post, because I felt it was fairly intuitive, but what Anet should have done was: 1) Nerf Reinforced Potency from 1.5% to 1% 2) If they felt DPS Herald needed more DPS, buff Forceful Persistence 3) If S/S still was not good enough to be used, buff 2/4/5 to make it a more worthy swap This would have targeted specifically Herald while buffing "GS + S/S" to be useful. This would not have hurt every other Power Rev spec. pAlacRen and pRen both suffered from this. If they hadn't given 15% more damage modifiers to Vindicator, it also would have suffered. It also was simpler to do what I listed above, than what they did. Hell, they could have even just hit Burst of Strength from 15% to 10% and then they wouldn't have even needed to touch Shortbow, too. There were so many ways to nerf the spec and make S/S better without hitting literally all of power rev.

That's not the problem. The problem is they nerfed EVERY power Rev build by hitting GS when they LITERALLY could have only hit Herald by nerfing Reinforced Potency. This was the most obvious and best nerf they could have done (because ONLY QHerald was overperforming with GS), but instead they nerfed the weapon because they don't have enough brain cells to find the easiest, most efficient solutions.

There is no thought process anymore. They literally unlocked all of the Elite Spec Weapons so that they would "have something" to give for the expansion without having to create new Elite Specs (this is also why the new weapons aren't even ready for launch either). The tell tale sign that this was simply a cash grab was the fact that they did NOTHING to deal with the fact that Weaponmaster Training (and relics) were going to massively power creep the entire game. Weaponmaster training (the way they implemented it at least...and that's not counting the homogenization it introduced) was a huge mistake and now they have to overcorrect to fix something they did not prepare for and only added to help boost expansion sales. The only thought process here is "what will make us more money" not "this is good for the game."

Absolutely comical balancing and lack of foresight as always. Glad I'm finishing up my last few achievements I care about over the next few months then I can finally move on from this hell hole that the game has become

That's pretty cool you were involved in the early alpha testing. I'm sure that was a unique and fun experience! Regardless though, I don't think that Alpha (or even Beta really) should count when trying to assess what the "original design and release of the class" was, though. That would be kind of like looking at the roughest of drafts for a novel/script/art piece and then claiming that the original rough draft was "the actual vision" of the piece, ignoring the improvements/changes that made it into the polished final version. I don't think alpha/beta designs really deserve consideration as "the true original design of the class" or "how the class should be" since there's a reason those features never made it to the initial official release. If we're going to compare "Rev now" to "Rev then" it's best we look at the original official release iteration and then compare from there since that's the version of the class that the collective group of developers decided was "what Rev should be" and became what 99.9% of Rev players have played/understood to be "what Rev is." It's effectively the "final draft" that actually got made into a movie/novel/art piece and not one of the first few "rough draft" iterations. That's not to say that we can't look at Alpha/Beta designs and pull ideas from there, but there are reasons why those concepts were abandoned or changed before the official release and to revert Rev backwards towards those states would be to fundamentally alter the class into something that doesn't fully resemble the actual "official release" or "what Rev is." There is design space to make an Elite Spec much more Energy vs. CD based, though, which is where I would rather they add something like that if they're going to do that; no need to rework the entire class just to trade one gameplay style for another.

As someone who has played Rev since Beta in HoT and mains the class, what you've stated here does not actually match up with the history of the class at all. By the time it released with HoT, the finalized (non-beta) version of the class had both energy costs and CDs on most skills. Yes, the CDs have increased on many skills since the initial release, but since official release the class has never been "just energy" across the board and has ALWAYS mixed the two. Also I don't know what you're talking about with GW1 being "energy cost only" on skills. This is demonstrably false. Please refer to this skill list: https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/List_of_all_skills. Feel free to click skills on the list and check their energy and CD costs. I ran down most of the list just to see if what you claimed was accurate at all because it's been a few years since I've played GW1, but the claim is absolutely false. GW1 skills by and large across the board (not all, but most) have BOTH an energy cost AND a CD.

This is the answer (especially the “nerfing all utilities” part). This is how Rev was designed and is the intended gameplay design from the class. I’m always so confused why there are so many Rev players who want to completely change core functionality of the class to make it something fairly different! Changes should be made to enhance functionality or add to the class, not change core aspects of a class simply because a subset of players might prefer that. edit: If core functionality changes do need to happen for the profession, these should be pushed into Elite Spec design space, since this was literally the purpose of the elite spec system since it’s inception.

The system is fine as is. If they remove energy costs on weapons then CDs on utility skills will be increased due to having higher energy availability. They just need to balance energy costs/CDs appropriately. In many cases CDs on Rev ARE still lower (by a couple or few seconds) than other similar abilities from "Cooldown Classes"

NP! And don't be afraid to mix it up if you need; my advice is only my experience over thousands and thousands of hours, but it's obviously not the Bible either. And It's also only open world after-all. The fact that you're interested in wearing full dps gear, with decent dps traits, and are looking to get better means you'll be doing more dps than 70-80% of players regardless, so if you need to make a modification like using Shiro instead of Mallyx, go for it! Just also be aware of what you're giving up to make those modifications; that makes for a very well rounded/good player.

Akeem also triggers off of Scorchrazor on your Shortbow. (and Temporal Rift if you choose to use Mace/Axe at some point). For your build Rune of the Fractal (much more fire and forget) might be better, or you can just try to use Scorchrazor off CD for Akeem (since you're only using Shortbow) Probably not a ton of difference, but I would run the setup Snowcrows provides, which is Vipers + Trapper runes. They tend to min-max better than Metabattle. For a full vipers open world setup for condi ren, you want maximum dps with any sustain choices being made through traits. Geomancy and Torment are also options. The Metabattle option here is also wrong since the two sigil combos should be earth/geo and torment/doom. Worth noting that Revenant DOES weapon swap even when it's only using one weapon. The Legend Swap also counts as a weapon swap and as such you could use your weapon swap sigils with a "Shortbow only" build. However, two things: 1) Geomancy is close range meaning you have to be close to hit with the proc from it and 2) you do have to legend swap frequently if you want the full effects of swap sigils to be utilized. If you want the easy option to this for open world, go with Earth/Torment as you won't have to worry about being close to your enemy or swapping legends constantly to be able to get the most out of your sigils then. But do be aware that no weapon swap/swap sigils is a fairly decent DPS loss overall. With a Devastation survival build for cRen your bread and butter skill is definitely Icerazor, especially when you're being pressured. In a solo situation this gives a big dps increase due to Vuln application while simultaneously lifestealing. Make sure to pair Icerazor with other "many hit" skills like Sevenshot, Spiritcrush, Darkrazor, Citadel Bombardment in order to proc as many of the lifesteal applications as you can before they drop off. Darkrazor is actually REALLY good and you definitely should get in the habit of using it. It's a 6 hit 5 target AoE Daze which is awesome and it synergizes so well with Icerazor. Not only that but it shreds breakbars and also will essentially render a whole group of mobs useless for 6 seconds (provided they don't have defiance bars). This is definitely worth the 30e. Razorclaw is good if you have extra energy. While solo, it's technically only worth 10 Bleed (if you make full use of it), but that's still a fair amount for only being worth 25 energy. If there are randoms around, your 10Bleed Razorclaw can quickly become a 20/30/40 or even 50Bleed Razorclaw which is A LOT. So it's situational, but definitely a big dps increase in crowds. For Soulcleave, it's definitely a kitten skill now, but it's still useful-ish for survival. I would not use it offensively, but if you know you need to heal or are going to be pressured, it can be extra 700ish HPS which is not bad. It's not great, but it's also not bad. In combo with Icerazor and Breakrazor Soulcleave can help get you back to full quickly. Even if it only provides an extra 2-4k extra healing over its use period, that's far better than nothing, especially since there are moments in your rotation where there is effectively no other way to heal. But again, this is situational and I only find myself using it in 2023 in high pressure situations. Lastly, unless you're super concerned with Movement or Theme, I personally wouldn't run Kalla/Shiro. Shiro's only real use on a condi build (which Vipers IS a condi build, despite having hybrid stats; the strike damage contribution to overall dps is MINIMAL. I know everyone on the Rev forums likes to be like "Shortbow is a HYBRID weapon and does REALLY WELL with power stats," but this isn't really the case and people that are quoting these things aren't really looking at the numbers too closely). Similarly, while Vipers does have power/precision it's not a power damage build. On the full meta build Strike Damage only accounts for 15% of the overall DPS of the Vipers cRen. While using "Shortbow Only" would boost this a bit further due to the fact that Shortbow does have better Power Scaling than Mace/Axe, it still would likely only be a measly 20%ish of the overall possible damage (and since you're using Only Shortbow, the dps is already lower than Shortbow/Mace/Axe anyway). My point here is that Shiro's Impossible Odds on a full Viper's build is not that good. I mean, it's fine if there are no other options and it's certainly better than Jalis's Vengeful Hammers, but it's definitely not better than Mallyx's Embrace the Darkness. So you're gimping yourself on damage if you take Shiro. The only thing that Shiro does well on this build for open world is provide you a way to get around a little faster and also allow you to proc your lifesteal stacks a little easier with Impossible Odds. But that's about it. The Sustain on Shiro is also abysmal; Enchanted Daggers is just generally bad. Mallyx, while slower, DOES have movement with Call to Anguish (CtA). Another perk that Mallyx has over Shiro is the ability to pull enemies together with the same skill (CtA). This can make short work of whole groups of mobs quickly since you can pull up to 5 targets together and then smash them all with Embrace the Darkness + Sevenshot which at that distance all mushed together will hit every single one. The fact that Mallyx can pull enemies together makes the build soooo much better in terms of trash mobs than the Shiro variant ever could be. And again, to reiterate, Embrace the Darkness is also one of the premier condi dps skills Rev has allowing it to wrack up tons of Torment quickly in addition to all the other condis it's putting out. Shiro can't do that. While Mallyx's stunbreak is not necessarily as good as Shiro's, it's still quite decent and functional. Having the option to boon rip enemies can be extremely useful as well. Lastly, Mallyx's sustain tends to be better since Empowering Misery doesn't have any sort of conditions to fully utilize it (unlike Enchanted Daggers in which you have to continue attacking) and can also scale from conditions that are on you which can provide a bigger heal under the right circumstances. Personally, I strongly believe that Mallyx is the better choice for Open World unless you absolutely want the better movement from Shiro.

I seriously wonder why you play the class considering each of your posts is typically about how the entirety of the class is awful and needs massive reworks. The disconnect is only you believing that the class needs to change entirely to adjust to your vision instead of being what it is currently. Changes are fine, but they should be smart and still maintain the core of the class, not massively reworked into something else unrecognizable

I love all the suggestions in the Rev forums that are like “the class is awful needs a total rework.” Just f*** everyone who likes the class the way it is I guess simply because you’d selfishly prefer something else??? Maybe play a class you jive with more if you hate every aspect of it instead of advocating for complete reworks lmao

It’s also not proccing with Unrelenting Assault

I don't truly "understand the meaning of it" because your proposal is not well laid out or easy to understand with how you've written your posts. All I see is complications, more work for Anet, more bugs for the class, and a proposal that doesn't fix anything, just adds for no reason while stepping further outside what Revenant is supposed to encompass Herald is allowed to be different since it's an elite spec; it's not supposed to function identically to Core, Ren, or Vindi. This is just a made up issue by you to justify giving core new things for no reason. By the way, Core will never be as strong as the Elites in PvE simply because it doesn't have the damage modifiers the elites do. None of the 3rd Core traitlines are good enough to replace an Elite line in PvE and changing upkeeps to overlap and stay around passively won't change that. It's clear you're not mainly a PvE player (which is fine!) or else you'd realize this. I also don't get why you're in a PvE thread asking for complete reworks of class mechanics to boost Core when you're not mainly a PvE player. Core will almost always be behind Elites on each profession simply due to how the system has worked. This is fine in PvE This sentence proves you don't get what people are asking for. None of the reasonable PvE proposals in here are looking to "do jack for DPS" by lowering energy costs. It's literally looking to give UTILITY its ability to be used as UTILITY without losing a big chunk of dps while using UTILITY. Literally the changes just want to be able to use Phase Traversal as a gap closer or Jade Winds as a stun MORE OFTEN than they're used now. The proposals are not looking to add raw dps or make rotations more complicated, but to provide the ability to use utility for LESS of a dps tradeoff. Lower costs does not = more dps, just better access to utility and higher uptime on dps since gap closers (phase traversal) can be used more freely Lastly, keep solutions simple. No need to rework a class mechanic to fix something that lowering energy costs a bit fixes