BarnacleBoy.6918

Well I’m glad you are able to have blind faith, but Anets track records say otherwise. This is an opportunity to kill two birds with one stone, has nothing to do with complaining. Has everything to do with being a competent company. If you don't have faith in what Anet says, then how will them saying they know about stuff indicate they'll be able to fix that stuff? This has nothing to do with blind faith. This has to do with ANet saying something is going to happen and then people asking for them to reassure them something is going to happen. If you dont' trust them why would you trust them to fix it?Why are we defending corporations? They just want our money. Anet doesn’t get a free pass, they deserve critical observation, and as a consumer of their product, I have every right to ask. Nobody is complaining, I just wrote the post from the perspective that we haven’t ever gotten much communication, and if this huge revamp intends to change things, I would like to know.

I mean,the numbers just don’t make any sense when considering impact savant. I won’t disagree that explosives is definitely an option for making up the difference though. The way I see it is, if scrapper is doing 50% less damage, then they’re getting 50% less barrier, making the -180 vit trait an ever worse tradeoff. Anets scrapper philosophy was so recently updated, and this patch seemed to disregard how they intended the class to play and the way those numbers interacted with each other.

And I have 5000 hours on strictly scrapper, it doesn’t feel good. Do you recall the patch previous to this one?They upped the ratios on hammer so that it could be viable for generating barrier. How can you competently say any of the ratios feel decent when they’re lower than they were PRIOR to the patch that intended to make hammer stronger, without any changes to the vit tradeoff or barrier gen? Hammer Scrapper lost its sustain because it lost it’s Damage. It’s a matter of math, not feel.

Well I’m glad you are able to have blind faith, but Anets track records say otherwise. This is an opportunity to kill two birds with one stone, has nothing to do with complaining. Has everything to do with being a competent company.

Not my fault you need more time to figure out condi’s are strong and the game is a buggy mess.

While I don’t vehemently disagree, to even consider that they will “be a little patient” implies they ever actually acknowledged outliers in the first place. This is a HUGE patch that affects many many players, and if anything seems to be over performing, underperforming, buggy or just not functioning as intended, I would like to know if Anet has any intention of discussing these things with the community. There are ALOT of posts about this patch, and zero responses.

If the intention was to shake up the competitive scene so it could be balanced further, could you provide us with some kind of recognition that the outliers will be addressed? Players don’t need much time to figure out what’s strong and what’s pathetically weak, so why do we have to wait so long for someone to even acknowledge things need to be adjusted further?

I had an unranked game last week where my team had a 200 point lead in Capricorn, I went to go decap far and hard crashed(had to alt f4) when I loaded back in my entire team had dc’d and the enemy had capped everything, not a single player on the other team disconnected. It was unranked, and was more strange than anything, and I’m not trying to be accusatory. But it certainly felt like someone was trying something.

I did it by accident just now, and thought, did that just happen? So I double clicked a second, and dropped bundle to test....sure does.

Title

Id just like to add, prior to the changes, scrapper was very vulnerable to corruption and boon rip. Maintaining might and stab on old power scrapper was a big part of dealing good damage. The new changes add a whole new level to corrupting/ripping scrapper. In addition, maintaining the boons in an attempt to deal damage opens up huge gaps where scrapper has no tools to continue to fight. This seems to contradict anets “can stay in a fight as long as its dishing out good damage” claim. Just to clarify, with all these boons active and full might, power scrapper is hitting for about 20% less damage than before. Without the boons, were looking at 30-35% less damage than pre nerf scrapper without any boons.

This is an amazing thread. It’s great how much discussion is happening, but its pretty unfortunate how the goalposts keep moving, and how arguments are being based off of much less than what trevor provided... Enough with the semantics. This class is very obviously over performing... if literal videos and indepth discussions aren't enough evidence, maybe the fact that there are ~4 thief's in nearly every match should help persuade you. Every leaderboard FOTM junkie I know is playing condi thief.

The main problem with duo IMO, is that it has these players duo q’ing at 2-3 Am smashing average players season after season, holding multiple positions in the LBs, really inflates ego. That being said, I don’t have any answers.

That’s the funniest part about the way they started to enact these “trade offs”. If anet intends to bring down all elite specs, firebrand gets 3 incredibly powerful kits- a straight upgrade from the base Fskills. What is the plan Anet? -300 concentration? How does one add a trade off to a class that gives up nothing to become the best support in the game? How do you balance a class/spec that has been power crept to the front of the pack, while other classes were nerfed/balanced AROUND Fb to fit other niche rolls an Fb cant fill? Honestly I’m completely in awe of this. Think about all the balance passes in the last year, that were geared towards giving classes roles in raids, BASED off they way Elite specs, specifically PoF specs, were performing at the time. Imagine all the times a balance patch gets released, and how many of the changes are implemented when looking at all the classes as a whole. We’re going to end up with implementation, past or present, that is counterintuitive to the “trade offs” that anet adds. These “trade offs” don’t exist in a vacuum, and anet has never balanced a class in a vacuum, so why are you implementing “trade offs” in a vacuum?

Hold up, did you just claim losing a skill is an addon? W u t... w/o taking kits into account, scrapper went from 15 skill slots + gyro to 14+ gyro. Holo has 5 wep skills, 5 utilities, 4 toolbelts AND forge. Thats 19 skills. Holosmith is an addon, function gyro update was a flat out nerf. Lets not try to beat around the bush. If Fgyro was actually more USEFUL than before you could call it an addon,

Synergy: well that's news to me. I never used blasting zone, so I was surprised to find the trait say "blast finishers" and then not work with "blast finishers" but instead "blast combos". If it requires a combo, I would expect it to be more like Soothing Detonation: "When you trigger a combo using a blast finisher.."I mean, it sucks that it overwrites and doesn't stack, but if it's going to do that, it could at least overwrite in a more beneficial way and not put you at a disadvantage for using those two traits together.Again, that isn't really described anywhere. If that's the case, it should say so..Admittedly #4 is just a design complaint.. Why deliberately exclude all non-power-dps scrapper builds? It's stupid. No other spec is so restrictive.. @#4We can have our wants and desires, and I know how many people feel about the way scrapper got “balanced” But i’m willing to give the benefit of the doubt to anet, who can guess how strong a burn scrapper might be ticking 6k on you every second from range. Now don’t get me wrong, the traits could have been implemented in a way that allows a condi build to work or a power build, but as it stands now, anet wants us to build glassy and use hammer. If I can say, just as an aside: These “trade offs” seem to have a domino effect, the changes actually pidgin holed us into a very particular play style, and forces us to make many many many more trade offs to stay relevant, than I think anet intended.

You can easily play 30 ranked games and make 50-100 gold. But that’s an aside. I think it’s pretty clear anet doesn’t want people to be able to endlessly farm a single instance to get rich. Also, if the entire purpose of you logging in is to farm gold, then you probably don’t have much else going on in guild wars, which is more about you creating content for yourself, and less about anet handing you a farmable dungeon to trivialize grinding for items in game. Think about it, if everyone could endlessly farm a dungeon for gold, we would have bots farming dungeons, as well as players, which would lower the overall value of gold, which would mean the cost of an item would theoretically stay the same. If you have more time than things to do in guild wars, but want more gold, you could take that spare time, turn it into something that pays you, and use that money to buy gems and convert to gold.

Holo gets Heat Therapy in addition to 3 leaps in a water and compounding chemicals. Lets think about this for a second... Holo does far more damage than scrapper, gets to retain the health pool, gets a secondary healing trait (heat therapy) in addition to compounding chemicals(rapid regen removed from scrapper)gains 5 new skills in photon forge (where as scrapper lost utility with the new gyro) and has the ability to triple leap in a water field without sacrificing any utilities. There is nothing wrong with healing turret IMO, nerfing core traits/utilities makes the entire spec weaker (and we know where core and scrapper are atm) instead, the strongest of the 3 specs gets an additional passive healing trait.

Thanks for the measured write up Ghos, very clear and concise. I completely agree about function gyro. It’s health pool seems INCREDIBLY small compared to before, AND its rez ticks are worse than before. In the last two days I have gotten maybe 3-4 rezzes off with the gyro, 90% of the time it gets cleaved, or the pressure on the down is more than you and your gyro can heal. The issues I’m noticing with scrapper post patch is the inconsistency with barrier gain, between multi hit attacks, blocks, blinds, fumble(weakness) invulns, evades and damage reduction (prot, aswell as other traits) On paper the concept makes sense, but in practice, the amount of barrier you’re gaining in any given fight is heavily diminished by the sustain and utility traits taken by other classes. Something I have been thinking about in terms of balancing scrappers barrier would be how the barrier is calculated. This could potentially be very op, but I think, if anet wants to go this route with scrapper, it’s a good idea to consider. Just like someone mentioned earlier, all damage instead of strike damage. My proposition would be that the 15% of damage->barrier would be calculated before damage reduction such as armor, prot or damage reduction traits. This would NOT apply to invulns or targets taking zero damage (stone skin, endure pain) I feel like this incentivizes scrapper to build more glassy to get the most out of the barrier, like now, but more rewarding and consistent.

Yeah anet needs to step up and say something. Cause right now, its a slap in the face followed by ghosting us. Literally gutted a class, and won’t even comment on it. Really unfortunate.

@Ben Phongluangtham.1065 as a scrapper main I whole heartedly agree with @""Cuilan.7091" points about the scrapper changes. The excerpt does little to explain the end result of the changes posted in the patch notes. I’m curious how it feels with these changes, and would love to hear any possible insight to the changes. For example:Does the balance team feel scrapper was doing too much damage? Does the balance team feel scrapper will improved post patch? Or was this does as a way to manage scrappers tank potential? Does the balance team think the function gyro changes improve scrapper in any way? Again, would love some insight if possible. The loss of damage multipliers means object in motion and applied force are huge for damage modifiers, but does it at all make up for what was lost? Were the changes to damage mods an attempt to bring scrapper in line with the changes to its tanking capabilities? The way scrapper worked before was pretty reasonable imo, a bunker scrapper did virtually zero damage but could hold a node, a power scrapper was super vulnerable to high burst, and had utilites like MOA to navigate high burst classes and team fights. CheersLeckman

Well I guess this is a pipe dream now.

Anet why change function gyro? It was absolutely fine the way it was. Now we’re forced to play a bruiser that does up to 35% less damage.

its just 3 times and its not a bug if u ask me?1 trait1 core trait swap1 on your own bar where is the bug?