Holo heat reset when mounting deleted - but why tho

[szbalko.3928]

(Anet please if you're reading this, revert this change.)

 

I've been playing a hybrid prot-alchemy holo in the open world for ages now and it's been the most fun i've ever had out there, capable of facing anything that may come against you in the open world. Quite literally anything, i'd even soloed bounties and legy bosses. However, this new change completely breaks the flow of the build, since now when i mount i have a choice of either basically autoattacking the next bunch of mobs for 5-10 seconds before being able to re-enter photon forge again, or i overheat and suffer the consequences. I don't really see why they would make this change in the first place. What was the logic behind it, if there was any at all? Why did it bother anyone? It wasn't a gamebreaking advantage? Not even an advantage at all to be fair, as no other specialization gets punished for using their specialization-specific skills out there. Anyway, this change completely ruined the open world experience to me and I don't even want to log on to my holo anymore... Anyone else with similar experiences?

[insanemaniac.2456]

if it retained your heat and they called that a bug and switched it to deleting your heat after 2 years, the complaints would just be opposite.

 

apparently someone thought changing it was important though i guess.

 

but also maybe consider if the gameplay loop of 'mount -> strong engage skill -> huge dps and big cc -> mount -> immediately repeat' for free trash clearing wherever mounting is available is what photon forge is supposed to be, because it has heat specifically so you cant use it all the time, unlike every other kit.

 

edit: what's confusing?

Edited August 22, 2021 by insanemaniac.2456

[Kusumura.8642]

8 hours ago, insanemaniac.2456 said:

if it retained your heat and they called that a bug and switched it to deleting your heat after 2 years, the complaints would just be opposite.

 

apparently someone thought changing it was important though i guess.

 

but also maybe consider if the gameplay loop of 'mount -> strong engage skill -> huge dps and big cc -> mount -> immediately repeat' for free trash clearing wherever mounting is available is what photon forge is supposed to be, because it has heat specifically so you cant use it all the time, unlike every other kit.

 

edit: what's confusing?

As there is a lack of a genuine negative, "I don't like this/I disagree with this/I would like to express what I'm really feeling about this.", option, most people use Confused as a pseudo-downvote.

[Quench.7091]

A lot of Holosmith builds benefit from having over 50% or 100% heat. There are builds that recommend switching to Photon Forge at 100% heat and then leaving at 149% heat, as damage increases within the 2nd and 3rd heat tier while in Photon Forge. The opening rotation for these types of builds usually is all about getting past the 1st or 2nd heat tier, as Holosmiths don't really want to be under a certain heat threshold.

The change was made alongside giving us the ability to mount up while within a transformation. We no longer need to wait for the Photon Forge cooldown to remount!

 

The biggest downside I've had with this change was that dismissing heat using a mount was really useful for super speeding yaks in WvW.

[Yakuzai.6593]

I also dont like that they removed this mechanic. But i think the logic/idea behind this change is that they first aimed to make mounting possible for transformed classes. By focusing on that goal the maybe realized... "cool now reaper,/holo can mount ... but during riding a mount there is no access to skills/toolbelts so holo is pretty much screwed when it is mounting in photonforge" - that probably led to this change that now mountin deactivates photon forge but does not reset the heat since its somehow connected with activating/deactivating, while before u simply left photon forge, beein in normal form, mounted, and re-enter photon forge with a resetted healt lvl. 

Its just speculation and a guess how this change might be happened. 

[Quench.7091]

By the way, if you have Enhanced Capacity Storage Unit, it automatically knocks you down to 100% if you go over it. I'm not sure why they didn't give the other two options a similar rule. That's enough heat loss for the player not to overheat if they Photon Forge and Photon Blitz, yet also benefit from being within high heat ranges.

[insanemaniac.2456]

15 hours ago, Kusumura.8642 said:

As there is a lack of a genuine negative, "I don't like this/I disagree with this/I would like to express what I'm really feeling about this.", option, most people use Confused as a pseudo-downvote.

ah well, i hope anet reads szbalko.3928's first post and responds with the logic because i would be interested in knowing it too. 🤔

[ArjukKagrim.6049]

Holo needs to pre-heat for utilizing his full dps-rotation. At some encounters (specifically one raid) you have to mount up before the fight starts and you would lose your pre-heat level when the fight acutally begins which was very bad. So this change is a buff to holo for the hardest pve-content.

[szbalko.3928]

On 8/24/2021 at 1:08 PM, ArjukKagrim.6049 said:

Holo needs to pre-heat for utilizing his full dps-rotation. At some encounters (specifically one raid) you have to mount up before the fight starts and you would lose your pre-heat level when the fight acutally begins which was very bad. So this change is a buff to holo for the hardest pve-content.

I see what you mean and that definitely makes sense, but in the open world/WvW/DRMs it really breaks the fluidity of all other builds except for overheat holo, whereas on raid encounters that you mentioned (let's take Adina for example) although mounting at start used to be a minor inconvenience, you could still be no.1 dps with holo if you did know your class, build and rotation properly.

 

I would also like to add that, I just realized today that mounting on reaper for example now unsummons any minions you had summoned and sends them on a cooldown, which seems and feels just as ridiculous to me as the holo changes in the openworld. It discourages using any summoned creature utilities, or using mounts the same way, which is just as illogical to me. Ironically, this is now at least consistent with the same mechanics that have been in place with the summoned creatures of elementalists. I hadn't understood the reason before and I don't understand it now.

 

@Anet, can you please explain why you would deliberately make the game experience worse and less fluid for several classes in several contexts instead of actually improving it? Let Ele keep its summoned creatures when it mounts, let Necro do the same and give back Holo its heat reset on mounting pretty please.

[Dawdler.8521]

6 hours ago, szbalko.3928 said:

I would also like to add that, I just realized today that mounting on reaper for example now unsummons any minions you had summoned and sends them on a cooldown, which seems and feels just as ridiculous to me as the holo changes in the openworld.

Pretty sure it doesnt, unless we are talking temporary minions (which is a shout, not a minion skill). Even then it doesnt go on cd.

[szbalko.3928]

On 8/26/2021 at 7:24 AM, Dawdler.8521 said:

Pretty sure it doesnt, unless we are talking temporary minions (which is a shout, not a minion skill). Even then it doesnt go on cd.

Feel free to try it in-game. 🙂 Unfortunately I'm correct. "Minion" skills do go on cooldown and the minions you summoned disappear once you get on a mount. I know what I'm talking about.

[Halcyon.7352]

On 8/28/2021 at 7:21 AM, szbalko.3928 said:

Feel free to try it in-game. 🙂 Unfortunately I'm correct. "Minion" skills do go on cooldown and the minions you summoned disappear once you get on a mount. I know what I'm talking about.

The ability for necromancers to preserve their minions after dismounting was temporarily disabled earlier this month. I haven't checked to see if the patch today brought it back.

Edited August 31, 2021 by Halcyon.7352

[Halcyon.7352]

Also on the actual topic:  I abhor the change. I get that it was meant to cater to those using Photonic Blasting Module, but it really makes the rotation for those that don't use the trait awkward.

 

Engineer feels much more clunky and less mobile, and I have to stand around and cool down rather than bursting straight into photon forge mode - which not only drastically affects my DPS, but also my sustain with Heat Therapy.

 

Guess it's time to re-spec.

[Gorkus.7496]

I'm not happy with the change either. What a punishment it is for the ways I like to play. I get that there are benefits for certain builds, but my PvE play is outright broken with this. Try to keep up with a horde in the silverwastes and tag enough creatures to grab a gold: Can't. While I'm waiting for my best skills to cool down from the prior battle minutes ago, others are laying waste to the mobs using their best skills. I'm only participating in every other battle. I liked the rifle, forge for up close and rifle for ranged. No more. Gotta change to the holo sword in order to take advantage of all that permanent heat or be left behind by the horde. Personally, if they just let the forge cool down normally while mounted, it would be fine or reduced the cool down time on switching. But no. So I'm forced to revert to melee only holo sword.  It makes me laugh (to keep from crying) as my old main was a weaver that got her stability nerfed and made her super brittle. It seems whenever I find something uncommon I like about GW, they kill it for PvP reasons. Oh well, I guess I'll have to become a scourge like everyone else. *sigh*

[jinn.6392]

One potential solution is make it so heat acts normally even when mounted. If it would have depleted in combat, make it deplete while mounted. If a trait causes heat not to deplete, then don't let heat deplete while mounted. I know that traits aren't usually tracked when mounted, so this could be managed through a status bar effect applied upon mounting.

I understand wanting for heat to be kept when mounting, but it creates awkward scenarios where you have to dismount between fights to let the forge cool off.

Edited September 16, 2021 by jinn.6392
'on mount' -> 'upon mounting'