Scrapper and raids

[Joxer.6024]

Ok, just wondering if Scrapper is any good in raids? Was always keen to try the spec but it seemed to always fall out of flavor and was just laughed at. has that changed at all?  Would be keen to try something other than same ol' Holo....

[Amadeus.5687]

After the last to patches Scrapper is slowly carving it self a endgame PvE spot.

Mightyteapot did a spot video about it recently:
 

I'd watch that to get an basic idea of were it stands 🙂

[Joxer.6024]

Awesome!! Cheers for that!!

[The Boz.2038]

Note: This *absolutely requires* full Alacrity uptime, otherwise you're ~18% shy of full Quickness uptime. Also, you don't get full Fury uptime alone, and full crit is out of your reach, so... I'd suggest using a few more Diviner's parts, and maybe even Pack runes for full 25 Might uptime. Or replace grenades for Purge/Bulwark.

[tetmikem.5608]

I play scrapper in raids.  Heal Quickness or DPS quickness is usually appreciated in a raid group, or at least the ones I've been in.  I also do plain DPS scrapper if quickness is covered elsewhere.  I don't have a dps meter but whenever I have asked if I am doing ok in terms of dps I'm always told I'm doing just fine.  So ppl seem happy enough. 

[Nephalem.8921]

On 8/30/2021 at 3:43 PM, The Boz.2038 said:

Note: This *absolutely requires* full Alacrity uptime, otherwise you're ~18% shy of full Quickness uptime. Also, you don't get full Fury uptime alone, and full crit is out of your reach, so... I'd suggest using a few more Diviner's parts, and maybe even Pack runes for full 25 Might uptime. Or replace grenades for Purge/Bulwark.

The mighty teapot build overcaps boon duration very hard already. Replacing grenades costs tons of dps. Alacrity is a given in raids/fractals.

There are better options than pack runes for fury like placing the scrapper in the druid sub group or adding one dh/fb to the scrapper sub or even storm spirit.

Full crit isnt out of reach. The normal build caps critchance with spotter. You are only using diviner amulet and ring, rest berserker for that. Lacking might is the druids/tempests fault and not your responsibility. Dps scrapper is very bad at providing team might.

[The Boz.2038]

Show maths on this.

Without alacrity, the normal build gets 82% uptime on team quickness (keep in mind toolbelt heal superspeed affects only yourself).

Pack runes are for +boon duration, fury is just icing on the cake.

Full crit is out of reach, even with the +15% from caliber.

[Nephalem.8921]

Why are you balancing a raid or fractal build for 0% alacrity? For 0% alacrity you need ~53% total bd. The SC one uses 35% while the Teapot one has already ~60%+ with scholar runes. Teapots build caps quickness with 0% alac.

Critchance: The SC variant with just amulet and ring has 47,57% critchance base. 25% from traits. High caliber + hematic focus. 20% from fury. This leaves you at 92,57%

Now you get 200 from spotter and banners -> + 9,52 resulting in 102,09. With the sc setup you will critcap. Teapots setup requires a few assassin pieces but will cap aswell. 

Scholar bonus is guaranteed with impact savant. Dropping them for pack runes costs a lot of dps. Its better to let renegade run them if you need fury since alac ren needs upwards of 78% bd to begin with.

Edited September 1, 2021 by Nephalem.8921

[The Boz.2038]

On 9/1/2021 at 4:27 PM, Nephalem.8921 said:

Why are you balancing a raid or fractal build for 0% alacrity? For 0% alacrity you need ~53% total bd. The SC one uses 35% while the Teapot one has already ~60%+ with scholar runes. Teapots build caps quickness with 0% alac.

What 60%? Teapot's ends at 53.6% BD, where quickness lasts 3.84s per application. With alacrity, this almost results in full coverage (but there's also casting times to worry about). Maths:

Kinetic Accel:    2.5s
Boon duration:    53.6%
Final:        3,84s
Medic gyro: 20s CD = 0,192
Blast gyro: 25s CD = 0,154
Shredder g: 20s CD = 0,192
Bypas coat: 30s CD = 0,128
Function g: 25s CD = 0,154
Total = 0.82
With alacrity:
Medic gyro: 16s CD = 0,24
Blast gyro: 20s CD = 0,192
Shredder g: 16s CD = 0,24
Bypas coat: 24s CD = 0,16
Function g: 20s CD = 0,192
Total = 1.024

Casting times and aftercast will mean 1.024 just about almost ends up as 100% uptime.  

[Amadeus.5687]

1 hour ago, The Boz.2038 said:

What 60%? Teapot's ends at 53.6% BD, where quickness lasts 3.84s per application. With alacrity, this almost results in full coverage (but there's also casting times to worry about). Maths:

Kinetic Accel:    2.5s
Boon duration:    53.6%
Final:        3,84s
Medic gyro: 20s CD = 0,192
Blast gyro: 25s CD = 0,154
Shredder g: 20s CD = 0,192
Bypas coat: 30s CD = 0,128
Function g: 25s CD = 0,154
Total = 0.82
With alacrity:
Medic gyro: 16s CD = 0,24
Blast gyro: 20s CD = 0,192
Shredder g: 16s CD = 0,24
Bypas coat: 24s CD = 0,16
Function g: 20s CD = 0,192
Total = 1.024

Casting times and aftercast will mean 1.024 just about almost ends up as 100% uptime.  

You are forgetting the toolbelt ability for the healing ability also grants superspeed 🙂 

That's personal quickness ofc.

Edit: Also did you count in that the medic Gyro will give superspeed/quickness twice? First from Speed of Synergy and second on final pulse from Gyroscopic 

Edited September 3, 2021 by Amadeus.5687

[The Boz.2038]

We're talking about team content, personal quickness is irrelevant.

I... may have forgotten about the double proc of the heal.

[Amadeus.5687]

1 minute ago, The Boz.2038 said:

We're talking about team content, personal quickness is irrelevant.

I... may have forgotten about the double proc of the heal.

Hehe no worries man, Scrapper skills and traits been reworked so many times I loose track in it all the time 😄

[Joxer.6024]

so what i am reading from this is can be a thing, a welcomed thing at that? Good to know! 😉

[Noah Salazar.5430]

300li holo/scrapper main here

Yes dps scrapper is ok but on some bosses holo is beter pick like secound boss in w1 wher you need max dps posible to skip mechanic or on bursty bosses holo is better too 

For fractals until you go cm, scrapper its super good as on top of dps you provide some superspeed and its good for speedrun and you can take bulwark or purge gyro for support losing only 1k dmg

Quick heal scrap is good in raids and super good on fractals, you dont provid adional stats and aegis but insted you bring alot of healing and condi cleanse, but dont forget to take runes of pack to provide fury (until your have alac mirage as mirage brings fury compare to alac rene)

Also remember most class have self 50% fury uptime expect of reaper wher he have none so only runes of pack are fine and in raids fury will overlap from druid/tempest

Edited September 6, 2021 by Noah Salazar.5430

[Puck.3697]

On 9/3/2021 at 11:33 AM, The Boz.2038 said:

We're talking about team content, personal quickness is irrelevant.

I... may have forgotten about the double proc of the heal.

 

Tbh in pugs and more middle of the lane raid groups, boons in itself are generally all over the place hence why things such as reaper excels in that content. 

 

Personal boons in that enviroment are actually amazing as it bolsters the concrete dps you can output in that enviroment. Sure if we are talking coordinated teams enviroment yes it isn't as important as generally you fit your group to provide 100% quickness to the entire team not just a single player. 

 

However yeah in a pug or early raid groups position personal boons are pretty kitten useful. 

[Noah Salazar.5430]

47 minutes ago, Daddy.8125 said:

 

Tbh in pugs and more middle of the lane raid groups, boons in itself are generally all over the place hence why things such as reaper excels in that content. 

 

Personal boons in that enviroment are actually amazing as it bolsters the concrete dps you can output in that enviroment. Sure if we are talking coordinated teams enviroment yes it isn't as important as generally you fit your group to provide 100% quickness to the entire team not just a single player. 

 

However yeah in a pug or early raid groups position personal boons are pretty kitten useful. 

Welp quick heal scrap needs only 73% boon dura, your not even need full harier anymore, and can take magi for more hp and healing stats

About quick dps it still need a little buff in terms of dmg, its ok up to t3 fractal or strikes, for raids you got quick mirage or cqfb as quick scrap lack some dmg yet 

In future harbringer necro will do dps quicknes, as his ult is op and dmg super good yet he can range dps

Edited September 6, 2021 by Noah Salazar.5430