no one plays raids

[Cyninja.2954]

29 minutes ago, Vayne.8563 said:

I've killed several of the raid bosses so far.  It's not so much hard as finicky.  Finding the right combinations the right group the right stats. Showing up a specific time or losing your spot. 

That's what experienced raiders have been saying for years: raids aren't hard. Funny how suddenly a lot more players realize that this is true after finally actually trying raids (not to mention new players coming over from other MMORPGs with experience in challenging content basically steamrolling through content which some veterans in this game have been "struggling" with for years).

Also a reason why the years of arguments for an easy mode version of raids were pointless and essentially would have just amounted to a ton of wasted resources. Resources which would have been better spent on more actual niche content.

Quote

When I do fractals I worry about none of that. 

Yes, regular fractals need no specific classes. Even CMs don't, yet are a lot easier IF a proper group is made.

Makes sense, given fractals were meant as a stepping stone to raids, at least before strikes were conceptualized.

Quote

The thing is I don't enjoy it. I don't enjoy the process of raids. I don't enjoy counting down in boss fights to this phase to stay out of circles. It's the exact opposite reason I play this game. It's not fun for me.

 

The other guy was talking about challenging content and I was responding to him. 

and here we are at the core of the issue:

if all content which was not fun to someone was cut from this game, the game would end up without any content at all.

In the meantime, certain content has always seen a vast majority of the developer resources devoted to it (story, living world and open world) while players who enjoy singularly that content were very vocal about not wanting ANY sharing of those resources with content in other areas of the game.

Now in 2021, the game is worse for it. Nearly every type of niche content has been starved for a long time with some barely playable now or over run with bots, while the developers are now desperately trying to convince players that suddenly they will do a 180 here only because "expansion".

Let's see what happens.

Edited September 27, 2021 by Cyninja.2954

[Vayne.8563]

10 minutes ago, Cyninja.2954 said:

That's what experienced raiders have been saying for years: raids aren't hard. Funny how suddenly a lot more players realize that this is true after finally actually trying raids (not to mention new players coming over from other MMORPGs with experience in challenging content basically steamrolling through content which some veterans in this game have been "struggling" with for years).

Also a reason why the years of arguments for an easy mode version of raids were pointless and essentially would have just amounted to a ton of wasted resources. Resources which would have been better spent on more actual niche content.

Yes, regular fractals need no specific classes. Even CMs don't, yet are a lot easier IF a proper group is made.

Makes sense, given fractals were meant as a stepping stone to raids, at least before strikes were conceptualized.

and here we are at the core of the issue:

if all content which was not fun to someone was cut from this game, the game would end up without any content at all.

In the meantime, certain content has always seen a vast majority of the developer resources devoted to it (story, living world and open world) while players who enjoy singularly that content were very vocal about not wanting ANY sharing of those resources with content in other areas of the game.

Now in 2021, the game is worse for it. Nearly every type of niche content has been starved for a long time with some barely playable now or over run with bots, while the developers are now desperately trying to convince players that suddenly they will do a 180 here only because "expansion".

Let's see what happens.

What a weird argument. Who is asking raids to be cut from the game?  I'm asking for an alternate path to legendary armor in PvE that doesn't include raids. That sounds like I'm asking for raids to be cut from the game.  

While I don't believe raids should have ever been added, now that they're here, you can't put the cat back in the bag.  But that doesn't mean an entire PvE reward type should be locked solely behind the least popular PvE content in the game.

[Aeis.8519]

4 hours ago, Vayne.8563 said:

What a weird argument. Who is asking raids to be cut from the game?  I'm asking for an alternate path to legendary armor in PvE that doesn't include raids. That sounds like I'm asking for raids to be cut from the game.  

While I don't believe raids should have ever been added, now that they're here, you can't put the cat back in the bag.  But that doesn't mean an entire PvE reward type should be locked solely behind the least popular PvE content in the game.

I'm genuinely confused here.  Weren't you advocating earlier that ANet shouldn't make content for a small minority of players because it's unfun to others?

[Vayne.8563]

1 hour ago, Aeis.8519 said:

I'm genuinely confused here.  Weren't you advocating earlier that ANet shouldn't make content for a small minority of players because it's unfun to others?

Nope, I'm saying a PvE reward type shouldnt' be locked behind the least popular PvE content in the game.  I'm saying you shouldn't CATER to the small segment of the playerbase not that you can't make stuff for them. However...if Anet knew before hand just how unpopular raids would turn out, they'd probably not have made them in the first place.

[Sobx.1758]

7 minutes ago, Vayne.8563 said:

Nope, I'm saying a PvE reward type shouldnt' be locked behind the least popular PvE content in the game.  I'm saying you shouldn't CATER to the small segment of the playerbase not that you can't make stuff for them. However...if Anet knew before hand just how unpopular raids would turn out, they'd probably not have made them in the first place.

But then again... Having desired rewards behind aspirational content is ok for the sole pusrpose of giving the players the reason to improve. This is not a new concept. Legendary gear is the kind of reward that doesn't give the players more power (so if someone doesn't want to make an effort to get it then they don't need to and they aren't excluded from any content if they choose to play with ascended gear) and it still needed the introduction of armory to make it reasonable for most people to get (hence the sudden appearence of the NEED for some people to get armor rigth now). If the players won't have the reason to improve, the game won't move forward and the content becomes stagnant.

Want the rewards? Complete the content. Don't want to? Literally your -valid- choice.

[Vayne.8563]

7 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

But then again... Having desired rewards behind aspirational content is ok for the sole pusrpose of giving the players the reason to improve. This is not a new concept. Legendary gear is the kind of reward that doesn't give the players more power (so if someone doesn't want to make an effort to get it then they don't need to and they aren't excluded from any content if they choose to play with ascended gear) and it still needed the introduction of armory to make it reasonable for most people to get (hence the sudden appearence of the NEED for some people to get armor rigth now). If the players won't have the reason to improve, the game won't move forward and the content becomes stagnant.

Want the rewards? Complete the content. Don't want to? Literally your -valid- choice.

 So you keep saying.  But why put an aspirational reward behind deeply unpopular content, that's what no one can answer. This is a game and games are meant to be fun, not just challenging. If the bulk of the population ignores content it doesn't matter that it's challenging. Anet themselves made the decision to put ascended armor into raids early on. In retrospect it was probably a mistake.

[Sobx.1758]

24 minutes ago, Vayne.8563 said:

 So you keep saying.  But why put an aspirational reward behind deeply unpopular content, that's what no one can answer. This is a game and games are meant to be fun, not just challenging. If the bulk of the population ignores content it doesn't matter that it's challenging. Anet themselves made the decision to put ascended armor into raids early on. In retrospect it was probably a mistake.

It's not aspirational reward, it's an aspirational content. And this type of reward behind it is fine for the reasons stated before: Not getting legendary armor doesn't lock you out of any content, you're free to play whatever you want just like you've played until now using ascended gear. Absolutely nothing stands in the way of doing that, which is why it's not exactly an issue. You might have had a point here if legendary gear gave the player power or was required for anything like ascended gear does when compared to exotics or when it comes to playing fractals -but it doesn't. You want those rewards that are behind aspirational content? Great, learn the content, complete the content and get the rewards. You don't want to play it? Also great, keep playing what you want, how you want while you've lost none of the power due to not having those specific rewards.

Edited September 27, 2021 by Sobx.1758

[Killthehealersffs.8940]

7 hours ago, Sobx.1758 said:

It's not aspirational reward, it's an aspirational content. And this type of reward behind it is fine for the reasons stated before: Not getting legendary armor doesn't lock you out of any content, you're free to play whatever you want just like you've played until now using ascended gear. Absolutely nothing stands in the way of doing that, which is why it's not exactly an issue. You might have had a point here if legendary gear gave the player power or was required for anything like ascended gear does when compared to exotics or when it comes to playing fractals -but it doesn't. You want those rewards that are behind aspirational content? Great, learn the content, complete the content and get the rewards. You don't want to play it? Also great, keep playing what you want, how you want while you've lost none of the power due to not having those specific rewards.

Offer then an easy mode 😛

It will aspirational and they wont bother you with low dps , or asking to join your 'marvelous" group , while you have listed that you want people with expiriance and KP😛 

Edited September 27, 2021 by Killthehealersffs.8940

[Sobx.1758]

1 minute ago, Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

Offer then an easy mode 😛

If you quote my posts, try to answer to their contents, thanks. Thsi is in no way related to what I said, so not sure what you're doing right now.

Edited September 27, 2021 by Sobx.1758

[Killthehealersffs.8940]

7 hours ago, Sobx.1758 said:

If you quote my posts, try to answer to their contents, thanks.

What is the problem with an easy mode ?

They can get the armor

They won't whine about the KP-LI

They will join the inspirational  apropriate  Content

But itwill be still behind the Raid content

Edited September 27, 2021 by Killthehealersffs.8940

[Sobx.1758]

8 minutes ago, Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

What is the problem with an easy mode ?

If you wanted to talk about easy mode, there's already a whole long thread about it with my opinions in it, feel free to read through that thread. Again, I don't see the reason you're quoting my posts here just to respond with random unrelated stuff. If you quote my posts, respond to what they're saying.

Edited September 27, 2021 by Sobx.1758

[Killthehealersffs.8940]

7 hours ago, Sobx.1758 said:

If you wanted to talk about easy mode, there's already a whole long thread about it with my opinions withing it, feel free to read it. Again, I don't see the reason you're quoting my posts just to respond with random unrelated stuff.

You don't want all the other people to have the Legendary Armor .

I am asking why ?

The company  can make more money from the Templates and remove gold from the market by crafring  them .

 

I am simply i am asking why , you don't want other people to have Legendary Armor ?

Raids failed .... not new releases in the future ... the community  hate each other and new players that will buy EoD will not get HoT ...

Either offer an easy mode to get the Leg for the current population or offer tham in Strikes as Vayne wants  ,for future people 😛

You choose me , or her 😛

Edited September 27, 2021 by Killthehealersffs.8940

[Linken.6345]

4 minutes ago, Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

You don't want all the other people to have the Legendary Armor .

I am asking why ?

The company  can make more money from the Templates and remove gold from the market by crafring  them .

 

I am simply i am asking why , you don't want other people to have Legendary Armor ?

Raids failed .... not new releases in the future ... the community  hate each other and new players that will buy EoD will not get HoT ...

Either offer an easy mode to get the Leg for the current population or offer tham in Strikes as Vayne wants  ,for future people 😛

You choose me , or her 😛

That is not what Sobx.1758 is saying it all s/he want everyone to have the armor.

If they do the content that its earned from.

Edit

And strikes really? the content even less people play then raids.

People want it for openworld heart completin and harvesting materials like the return to amulet dont they?

Edited September 27, 2021 by Linken.6345

[Sobx.1758]

21 minutes ago, Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

You don't want all the other people to have the Legendary Armor .

I am asking why ?

The company  can make more money from the Templates and remove gold from the market by crafring  them .

 

I am simply i am asking why , you don't want other people to have Legendary Armor ?

Raids failed .... not new releases in the future ... the community  hate each other and new players that will buy EoD will not get HoT ...

Either offer an easy mode to get the Leg for the current population or offer tham in Strikes as Vayne wants  ,for future people 😛

You choose me , or her 😛

Where did I write anything like that? Stop making up things you imagined me saying and instead start responding specifically to the posts you're quoting.

[Killthehealersffs.8940]

7 hours ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Where did I write anything like that? Stop making up things you imagined me saying and instead start responding specifically to the posts you're quoting.

I am responding to you .

Raids are no longer "inspirational content" for people to strive for .

They will not join after 5 years , and new people wo't buy the expansion thinking that old content(HoT) will not be populated .

Its better to use the gear for "new inspirational content" called Strikes  (Vaynes Idea) , because the goal of the Devs is to increase the Raid population 😛

 

Edited September 27, 2021 by Killthehealersffs.8940

[Sobx.1758]

7 minutes ago, Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

I am responding to you .

Raids are no longer "inspirational content" for people to strive for .

They will not join after 5 years , and new people wo't buy the expansion thinking that old content(HoT) will not be populated .

Its better to use the gear for "new inspirational content" called Strikes  (Vaynes Idea) , because the goal of the Devs is to increase the Raid population 😛

Aspirational content and yes, it is. It won't be if you make it auto-play easy mode [with those desired rewards] that doesn't push people into improving themselves. 🙂 And final reward for aspirational content is gain after completing that aspirational content, not halfway through it like you're trying to claim here.

And no, you didn't respond to the posts you've quoted. You've quoted my posts and randomly responded with "then give easy mode!". This answered to nothing I wrote and has nothing to do with aspirational content, quite the opposite.

Edited September 27, 2021 by Sobx.1758

[Killthehealersffs.8940]

6 hours ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Aspirational content and yes, it is. It won't be if you make it auto-play easy mode [with those desired rewards] that doesn't push people into improving themselves. 🙂 

Telling them to get gud , go in training guild and then come back to be invited , is not so ...smart..:P

You had 6 years , you goofed it , its time for a change 😛

[Sobx.1758]

3 minutes ago, Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

Telling them to get gud , go in training guild and then come back to be invited , is not so ...smart..:P

You had 6 years , you goofed it , its time for a change 😛

Where did I say git gut? Again, what are you responding to right now? Clearly nothing you've quoted.

Training guilds are far from needed. They're just one of the possible routes to take in order to learn and complete that content.

Edited September 27, 2021 by Sobx.1758

[Killthehealersffs.8940]

7 hours ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Where did I say git gut? Again, what are you responding to right now? Clearly nothing you've quoted.

We had these kind of curcicular conversations for a while now 😛

You even told me that " if you make it auto-play easy mode [with those desired rewards] that doesn't push people into improving themselves. " , so you don't want once again an easy mode for people to learn  😛 

So lets go with Vayne idea , and create a new "inspirational content" with HoT legendary Armor

Edited September 27, 2021 by Killthehealersffs.8940

[CasualElitist.8795]

I want wvw legendary armor because it looks nice, but I hate this game mode and I don't want to do it, but I still want the armor, so can they make it earnable in other game mode? I would love to drop one from pocket raptors, they are the true bosses of the game 

 

/s

 

[Sobx.1758]

41 minutes ago, Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

We had these kind of curcicular conversations for a while now 😛

It's hard to call it a "conversation" when you quote my post and then don't respond to anything I wrote while making up a bunch of stuff I DIDN'T write. If that's what you want to do, then good luck. If you want to have a conversation, start responding to the posts you're quoting. 🙂 

41 minutes ago, Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

so you don't want once again an easy mode for people to learn

That's a lie, I have nothing against "easy mode for people to learn", if you think that's what you need. But you don't want "easy mode for people to learn", you want "easy mode to earn the rewards, so you don't have to learn". That's a significant difference, so -again- please stop pretending I said something I never did.

Edited September 27, 2021 by Sobx.1758

[mindcircus.1506]

18 minutes ago, CasualElitist.8795 said:

I want wvw legendary armor because it looks nice, but I hate this game mode and I don't want to do it, but I still want the armor, so can they make it earnable in other game mode? I would love to drop one from pocket raptors, they are the true bosses of the game 

 

/s

 

Locking Legendary armour acquisition behind pocket raptors shows that Arenanet isn't listening to it's player base.

Everyone knows the last actual pocket raptor kill was shortly after HoT's release and not one has been killed since.

I run a very large guild of casual players who all spend over 1000 dollars a month on this game and none of us can kill a pocket raptor.

What's worse is I have organized guild events to kill Pocket Raptors and they have all resulted in failure.

 

Clearly players like you who are asking that legendary armor continue to be gated behind pocket raptors simply don't want the rest of us to have this amazing armor.

 

STOP MAKING US JUMP THROUGH HOOPS FOR LEGENDARY ARMOUR.
THIS SHOULD BE A LOGIN REWARD!

[Epsilon Indi.2031]

4 hours ago, mindcircus.1506 said:

Locking Legendary armour acquisition behind pocket raptors shows that Arenanet isn't listening to it's player base.

Everyone knows the last actual pocket raptor kill was shortly after HoT's release and not one has been killed since.

I run a very large guild of casual players who all spend over 1000 dollars a month on this game and none of us can kill a pocket raptor.

What's worse is I have organized guild events to kill Pocket Raptors and they have all resulted in failure.

 

Clearly players like you who are asking that legendary armor continue to be gated behind pocket raptors simply don't want the rest of us to have this amazing armor.

 

STOP MAKING US JUMP THROUGH HOOPS FOR LEGENDARY ARMOUR.
THIS SHOULD BE A LOGIN REWARD!

Wait, I have to log in to get my armor now?  What happens if I suddenly, for whatever reason, can't log in anymore?  I'm going to be behind everyone else.  This is discriminatory towards people who can only log in once a month; it should be given out freely in boxes via the mailing system!

[Vayne.8563]

8 hours ago, CasualElitist.8795 said:

I want wvw legendary armor because it looks nice, but I hate this game mode and I don't want to do it, but I still want the armor, so can they make it earnable in other game mode? I would love to drop one from pocket raptors, they are the true bosses of the game 

 

/s

 

Strawman argument if ever I've seen one.  No one is saying have legendary armor drop from pocket raptors, but of course you guys know this and you're intentionally muddying the waters with strawmen.

 

PvP people can do whatever they normally do and get armor.

WvW people can do whatever they normally do and get armor.

PvE people have to raid, which is massively unpopular and makes people annoyed and angry except raiders.  Obviously some people like raiding and they're okay with this. The rest of us don't necessarily like it even if we can do it.

I didn't say I necessarily want an easy route. Or a fast route. Just one that doesn't include raids.  It's pretty simple. And you know, you're not the guys that will decide of that gets into the game or not. Anet will decide.

We already have two legendary accessories and now a legendary amulet that doesn't require raiding.  So I'm not really sure why legendary armor (without the raid skins) can't be introduced in some form or other.  Raiders would like to make this sound unreasonable. It's really not.  And no amount of sarcasm will make it so.

[Epsilon Indi.2031]

37 minutes ago, Vayne.8563 said:

Strawman argument if ever I've seen one.  No one is saying have legendary armor drop from pocket raptors, but of course you guys know this and you're intentionally muddying the waters with strawmen.

hyperbole

hī-pûr′bə-lē

noun

1. A figure of speech in which exaggeration is used for emphasis or effect, as in "I could sleep for a year" or "This book weighs a ton."
2. In rhetoric, an obvious exaggeration; an extravagant statement or assertion not intended to be understood literally.
3. Synonyms See exaggeration.

 

Quote

PvP people can do whatever they normally do and get armor.

WvW people can do whatever they normally do and get armor.

PvE people have to raid, which is massively unpopular and makes people annoyed and angry except raiders.  Obviously some people like raiding and they're okay with this. The rest of us don't necessarily like it even if we can do it.

I didn't say I necessarily want an easy route. Or a fast route. Just one that doesn't include raids.  It's pretty simple. And you know, you're not the guys that will decide of that gets into the game or not. Anet will decide.

We already have two legendary accessories and now a legendary amulet that doesn't require raiding.  So I'm not really sure why legendary armor (without the raid skins) can't be introduced in some form or other.  Raiders would like to make this sound unreasonable. It's really not.  And no amount of sarcasm will make it so.

You mean you don't normally group up and kill world bosses with groups of 10 or more?  Or guildies?  Or friends?  I'm pretty sure Bloodstone Fen has a discount Vale Guardian there too with basically the same mechanics at the end of a meta chain.

Also, what's stopping ANet from a dding it to strikes but then also requiring a rather painful CM; say a strike like Boneskinner difficulty as it's normal and the CM to do it?  Then we're back at the starting dilemma that's flooding this thread.  You also said it yourself that you didn't like having to do fractals for the backpiece, so what other route is there outside of general PvE like the weapons or a route like the accessories?

Also WvW is the  only game mode where they do what they normally do and get the armor.  PvP requires you play ranked over unranked or private.  You literally have to play a different game mode in there.  Sure it's the same objectives as private and unranked, but it's a lot less relaxed.