Removed Outnumbered Pip bonus

[Ashen.2907]

Replacing the four bonus pips for being outnumbered with a permanent increase of two pips is a loss when the matchmaking system creates an situation where a server is ALWAYS outnumbered. Please reconsider this change as it is punitive for servers where playing WvW at all is an uphill experience. Increasing the rewards for those that outnumber us while decreasing our rewards is demoralizing.

[Luthan.5236]

The upcoming alliance system hopefully matches closely balanced alliances vs each other - to minimize the outnumbered situations.

[Ashen.2907]

37 minutes ago, Luthan.5236 said:

The upcoming alliance system hopefully matches closely balanced alliances vs each other - to minimize the outnumbered situations.

I get that, and appreciate your point, but it seems a bit off to actively remove rewards for underdog situations BEFORE attempting a system, if it actually gets implemented, to fix the matchmaking issues that create those underdog situations. I don't play WvW primarily for tangible rewards, but they are part of the experience. Actively making the game mode less rewarding for those that ANET has decided to push into vastly outnumbered situations, while increasing the rewards for those who outnumber us makes it feel as if ANet is trying to drive us away. 

[Xenesis.6389]

1 hour ago, Luthan.5236 said:

The upcoming alliance system hopefully matches closely balanced alliances vs each other - to minimize the outnumbered situations.

Yeah but the people complaining about outnumbered pips don't want outnumbered to be fixed, they want the pip bonus is all.

[Gorem.8104]

8 hours ago, Ashen.2907 said:

Replacing the four bonus pips for being outnumbered with a permanent increase of two pips is a loss when the matchmaking system creates an situation where a server is ALWAYS outnumbered. Please reconsider this change as it is punitive for servers where playing WvW at all is an uphill experience. Increasing the rewards for those that outnumber us while decreasing our rewards is demoralizing.

 

The main thing is its been done much earlier then they should have, as we need it with the new alliance system, which should stop all outmatching. There should be no more outnumbered when Alliances come. 

Problem essentially is right now, wvw sucks to play with both that removal and the removal of many Grace period staples. 

Edited November 27, 2021 by Gorem.8104

[Ashen.2907]

22 minutes ago, Xenesis.6389 said:

Yeah but the people complaining about outnumbered pips don't want outnumbered to be fixed, they want the pip bonus is all.

Not necessarily. I would be fine with the loss of outnumbered pips if I wasn't facing the outnumbered situation continuously.

[Xenesis.6389]

1 minute ago, Ashen.2907 said:

Not necessarily. I would be fine with the loss of outnumbered pips if I wasn't facing the outnumbered situation continuously.

 

I highly doubt there are times when all 4 maps are outnumbered for any server continuously.

[HazyDaisy.4107]

Personally I don't see the logic in complaining that this being removed is wrong, while arguing defensive repairing participaion removal is right.  The way I look at it, they both rely on and are affected by one another and if one should not exist, neither should the other.

 

It was and still is easy to predict your choosen map is about to be zerged regardless of what tier you're in, the camps will start flipping and even if they aren't claiming them, you can still click on the camp and see the guilds on que.  Also, prior to this update, there was no question if you found yourself on an underdog server, you could judge it by how quickly you fell through the tiers.  It was pretty obvious early on in a link that you'd be in T4 for 8 weeks unless you transferred, which is probably the reason alot of servers ended up the underdog server.  Whether it be by meshing 2 servers that didn't mesh or major guilds leaving for favor of a more attractive fight pair, aka omni blob to ppt their former server; time after time you found yourself paired with a server that did well previously, but suddenly not so much and if you didn't transfer, you knew what you were in for.

 

Knowing this and still choosing to stay on a server you know is going to do poorly is just as (to borrow a term from the other thread) leeching, as repairing walls you know are going to fall.

 

Now, it may be that not everyone who thrived on outnumbered maps were leeches, but it's also true that not everyone that defended were afk participation leeches, but this is where we are now, you now have a balanced scenario that requires active game play, if you can't defend the keep, get out, if you can't defend the map, go to another one, don't stick around for rewards that you don't deserve.

Edited November 27, 2021 by HazyDaisy.4107
Left context out of a line

[Ashen.2907]

6 hours ago, Xenesis.6389 said:

 

I highly doubt there are times when all 4 maps are outnumbered for any server continuously.

Apparently the server that we are paired with is very active oceanic time. During NA time frames we are consistently outnumbered.

[Gorem.8104]

6 hours ago, Xenesis.6389 said:

 

I highly doubt there are times when all 4 maps are outnumbered for any server continuously.

ah, I see your assuming everyone plays the same as you do and has the same experience as you do, no wonder I saw so many for the kittenest wvw change ever, removing grace period for active play like defence and siege because "Oh it doesn't effect me, so I don't care" 
Right now, yes, servers can be outnumbered in all maps at the same time. Its quite easy for this to happen if you don't play on a full server/link and don't only play as a head in the crowd middle of zerg player. 

[Xenesis.6389]

35 minutes ago, Gorem.8104 said:

ah, I see your assuming everyone plays the same as you do and has the same experience as you do, no wonder I saw so many for the kittenest wvw change ever, removing grace period for active play like defence and siege because "Oh it doesn't effect me, so I don't care" 
Right now, yes, servers can be outnumbered in all maps at the same time. Its quite easy for this to happen if you don't play on a full server/link and don't only play as a head in the crowd middle of zerg player. 

 

That just sounds like you're mad at me for my counter arguments to you, the grace period argument has nothing to do with "when I play". 🙄

[TheGrimm.5624]

On 11/26/2021 at 6:15 PM, Xenesis.6389 said:

Yeah but the people complaining about outnumbered pips don't want outnumbered to be fixed, they want the pip bonus is all.

 

So how would you fix outnumbered?