Remove "weakness" from the game

[Drarnor Kunoram.5180]

@Ithilwen.1529 said:Weakness is a main function of Mirage Mirrors. If it were actually highly useful, you'd see mirrors regularly in PvP. You don't. This is a strong sign that weakness really is not very effective.

I...I thought Mirage Mirrors weren't used in PvP because to use them, you have to go to a specific location, which is easy for the opponent to bomb the hell out of before and after the evasion buff.

[Shala.8352]

You are late little childs, complain about weakness is years older, here i show you just one of the post in the old forum, with screens showing how much dps you are loosing by weakness, and the complain that this condi doesnt affect condi dmg. Weakness got rlly stronger after they add boon corruption on everything, and what is rlly wrong about boon corruption is that even a one second one stack of might gets corrupted to 10 seconds of weakness. The entire table of boon corruption is wrong.

https://forum-en.guildwars2.com/forum/game/pvp/Plz-remove-the-corrupt-boon-on-scepter-auto/page/2

[aelska.4609]

We can all agree that the damage loss is "at least" 25%, which is tremendous especially when it is coupled by protection. If you have access to both weakness and protection, you transform the (power) opponent into a running potato, no matter how good he is and how bad you are.Make one affect the condi damage and the other affect the direct damage, and I think it would be fair.

[Morwath.9817]

@aelska.4609 said:We can all agree that the damage loss is "at least" 25%, which is tremendous especially when it is coupled by protection. If you have access to both weakness and protection, you transform the (power) opponent into a running potato, no matter how good he is and how bad you are.Make one affect the condi damage and the other affect the direct damage, and I think it would be fair.

Would you prefer spammable hard CCs to disable you constantly rather than be 'controled' by weakness you can cleanse ? Imho both power and condi damage should be reduced by weakness and protection.

[aelska.4609]

@Morwath.9817 said:

@aelska.4609 said:We can all agree that the damage loss is "at least" 25%, which is tremendous especially when it is coupled by protection. If you have access to both weakness and protection, you transform the (power) opponent into a running potato, no matter how good he is and how bad you are.Make one affect the condi damage and the other affect the direct damage, and I think it would be fair.

Would you prefer spammable hard CCs to disable you constantly rather than be 'controled' by weakness you can cleanse ? Imho both power and condi damage should be reduced by weakness and protection.

Who talked about adding hard CCs ? If the "damage builds" become too strong after the removal of weakness, then it would still be time to nerf this damage. Meanwhile dodge stays a very good counter to direct damage but necessitates a good timing and a more active gameplay than just "you hit me but I dont take any damage lel".

[Morwath.9817]

@aelska.4609 said:

@Morwath.9817 said:

@aelska.4609 said:We can all agree that the damage loss is "at least" 25%, which is tremendous especially when it is coupled by protection. If you have access to both weakness and protection, you transform the (power) opponent into a running potato, no matter how good he is and how bad you are.Make one affect the condi damage and the other affect the direct damage, and I think it would be fair.

Would you prefer spammable hard CCs to disable you constantly rather than be 'controled' by weakness you can cleanse ? Imho both power and condi damage should be reduced by weakness and protection.

Who talked about adding hard CCs ? If the "damage builds" become too strong after the removal of weakness, then it would still be time to nerf this damage. Meanwhile dodge stays a very good counter to direct damage but necessitates a good timing and a more active gameplay than just "you hit me but I dont take any damage lel".

If you haven't noticed, design wise Weakness is replacing some disabling stuff, like Torment and Confusion replace GW1 Domination and Curses in case of Necro and Mesmer, so does Protection in case of Monk like abilities.

Also, weakness is much better than protection, because you can dodge ability which applies it, or just cleanse it.

[ZhouX.8742]

@Reaper Alim.4176 said:

@ZhouX.8742 said:

@Reaper Alim.4176 said:My opinion on weakness. Is that is should affect both power and condition damage. There is so much power hate in this game. Yet so few condi hate outside a few classes. Which also promotes condition damage superiority in GW2.

condi clear, resistance, positioning... if you nerf condi dmg with weakness on top of that.. you'll just make them completely useless... their simply needs to be a reduction in overall condi dmg application with some classes.

the only non-power builds that are strong in meta are condi mirage as a point contester and scourge which will be nerfed ... everything else is bunker support or full power since condi thief was nerfed down this automatically made fresh air ele a little better.

there is no "power hate" in this game... if you nerf weakness you'll see power builds simply over the top .. weakness keeps high power + high evasion builds in check like acro thief , even though they can remove weakness quite easily but it allows a buffer between getting completely over-pressured by specific classes that have high defense and high damage output like acro thief

First off, I wasn't asking for a nerf to weakness. Quite the opposite in fact.

Second, so your defense for condi acquiring the same strengths, without having the same weakness as power builds. Are bunker builds?

I was simply addressing you saying there's power hate in the game, there isn't. 90% of point and team fight builds are based around power, condi isn't nearly what it was years ago. The only thing keeping condi in consistency right now is scourge which , again, will be nerfed and Condi mirage which serves one essential function at far. Even in organized teams I'm not sure you would take condi mirage, power mirage/chrono with focus might even be more of use in more higher tier teams/comps due to it's utility as torch is just rather selfish.

I was also sort of addressing both points on you asking to buff weakness with affecting both power and condi but also to the people asking to nerf weakness in a power aspect to make all meta builds even stronger.

It's fine as it is and serves it's purpose.

[sephiroth.4217]

@Morwath.9817 said:

@aelska.4609 said:We can all agree that the damage loss is "at least" 25%, which is tremendous especially when it is coupled by protection. If you have access to both weakness and protection, you transform the (power) opponent into a running potato, no matter how good he is and how bad you are.Make one affect the condi damage and the other affect the direct damage, and I think it would be fair.

Would you prefer spammable hard CCs to disable you constantly rather than be 'controled' by weakness you can cleanse ? Imho both power and condi damage should be reduced by weakness and protection.

Maybe Weakness can just be changed to effect CC and Endurance instead... If you have Weakness, your stuns/dazes are reduced by 50%.... Spammable CC is a thing now and it could help.

[Razor.6392]

Weakness def. needs to be changed especially given how easily spammable it is. It's one of the strongest conditions and should be given to specs situationally, not in abundance through corrupts and random procs.

[Drarnor Kunoram.5180]

@Razor.6392 said:Weakness def. needs to be changed especially given how easily spammable it is. It's one of the strongest conditions and should be given to specs situationally, not in abundance through corrupts and random procs.

Who, other than Necromancer, has a lot of Weakness?

What does a Necro have for defense? 2 dodges and health. By far less than any other profession in the game.

That's why Necros get a lot of Weakness. They don't have the ability to negate attacks like everyone else does, so they absolutely have to have other ways of extending their health beyond the raw value to even be close to viable in PvP formats (even bunker builds would chew through a 25k HP golem rapidly). They have poor Protection access, so they have to have tons of Weakness instead.

[Crossaber.8934]

@Crinn.7864 said:

@Flarre.4850 said:

@Crinn.7864 said:

@Sorem.9157 said:Condition Damage builts only need Condition Damage to be effective

Power Based builds need Power, Precision, Ferocity and awareness of Weakness.

base amount of power stat a character has: 1000base amount of condition damage a character has: 0

Your condition does damage even at 0 and don t have to crit to be effective.

You are forgetting that power attacks have a base damage too that is derived from your weapon strength.

All classes and weapons do power damage baseline. However if you want to condi damage you must invest in stats.

You are forgetting most of your condi heavy skill also does power damage, your 1000 base power is more useful than a pure based build that also happens to inflict conditions which deal clone level damag.

[Crossaber.8934]

@Reaper Alim.4176 said:My opinion on weakness. Is that is should affect both power and condition damage. There is so much power hate in this game. Yet so few condi hate outside a few classes. Which also promotes condition damage superiority in GW2.

Agree, if weakness also reduce condi effectiveness, resistance uptime can be adjusted. Condi spam meta is the real cancer here.

[Daffan.8924]

Weakness is dumb just like Swiftness is stupid. I hate them both. Although, Swiftness I hate more because its more about playing your ping then the game.

[Shala.8352]

@aelska.4609 said:We can all agree that the damage loss is "at least" 25%, which is tremendous especially when it is coupled by protection. If you have access to both weakness and protection, you transform the (power) opponent into a running potato, no matter how good he is and how bad you are.Make one affect the condi damage and the other affect the direct damage, and I think it would be fair.

yeah the dmg lost is at least 25%, and can go up to 75% depending on your ferocity stat. Also the sad thing about weakness, is the "chance" factor to glancing, wich is horrible in any competitive game. Better have a 100% sure glancing, but the glancing effect is only 25% dmg reduction, and doesnt affect ferocity in his % dmg lost, meaning that your glancing attacks should still be able to crit.And off course it should affect condi dmg aswell.And the very important thing, corrupt boon on might shouldnt give 10 seconds weakness on the target, this high time is too much punishing for one stack of might wich gives 30 power...

[Miles Smiles.8951]

yeah, and people don't usually apply weakness on purpose, do they? most of the time it just casually converts 25 might stacks on your enemy while you do your thing

[Chaith.8256]

And the very important thing, corrupt boon on might shouldnt give 10 seconds weakness on the target, this high time is too much punishing for one stack of might wich gives 30 power...

Yeah. On the boon flip table, any might flips equals ten seconds base weakness.. just be aware of that, ten second base duration condition?

I'm down to change weakness to a blanket damage reduction that won't discriminate against the precision & ferocity stats.

[Zoltreez.6435]

everyone acting like Resistance don't exist........ that is an outright immune to conditions....

The new warrior elite can spam it and be immune 100% of the times to all conditions if the enemy don't have enough boon removal/converter

Or cleanses......allot of cleanses....

i hate this condi meta also but lets not make Condi look worse then what actualy is.....

[Chaith.8256]

@Zoltreez.6435 said:everyone acting like Resistance don't exist........ that is an outright immune to conditions....

The new warrior elite can spam it and be immune 100% of the times to all conditions if the enemy don't have enough boon removal/converter

Warrior will eventually get what's coming to it, long duration resistance is too overpowered. Warrior trivializes not only all condition builds, but all blinded attacks, weakness' glancing blows, poisoned sustain, vulnerability increased damage taken, crippled movement, chilled CDs and movement.

Power Thief/Mesmer/Ranger/Engi/Ele/Rev/Guard/Necro are all better backing off after receiving a single might corrupt if they can't clear it. That's the real damage that 10s base weakness durations do

Resistance should be limited in duration and limited to negating the damage components of conditions only, and all classes depending on resistance currently should have some condition removal or anti-blind/weakness options baked in to the abilities/traits instead. Resistance should never depend on getting stripped, that just leaves more than half the classes out from engaging with the mechanic.

[Razor.6392]

@Drarnor Kunoram.5180 said:

@Razor.6392 said:Weakness def. needs to be changed especially given how easily spammable it is. It's one of the strongest conditions and should be given to specs situationally, not in abundance through corrupts and random procs.

Who, other than Necromancer, has a lot of Weakness?

What does a Necro have for defense? 2 dodges and health. By far less than any other profession in the game.

That's why Necros get a lot of Weakness. They don't have the ability to negate attacks like everyone else does, so they absolutely have to have other ways of extending their health beyond the raw value to even be close to viable in PvP formats (even bunker builds would chew through a 25k HP golem rapidly). They have poor Protection access, so they have to have tons of Weakness instead.

Thief passively gets access to weakness through 2 traits.Ele gets lightning rod. Technically a passive proc when anti CC shocking aura is equipped.Ranger gets yet another passive proc when hit (what a beautifully designed class, definitely not for the lowest common denominator)Necro of course gets corrupt city, the aoe proc when entering shroud, weakness on crit, weakness on many weapon skills. Buff necro if it means nerfing weakness, idc. This is not a necro witch hunt.

[Crinn.7864]

@Drarnor Kunoram.5180 said:

@Razor.6392 said:Weakness def. needs to be changed especially given how easily spammable it is. It's one of the strongest conditions and should be given to specs situationally, not in abundance through corrupts and random procs.

Who, other than Necromancer, has a lot of Weakness?

Thieves

@Miles Smiles.8951 said:yeah, and people don't usually apply weakness on purpose, do they? most of the time it just casually converts 25 might stacks on your enemy while you do your thing

Excuse me?I specifically target might stacks in PvP as a Necromancer. It's one of the few ways to stop most meta power builds from eating your face off.

[aelska.4609]

Friendly reminder that weakness has still been untouched

[Faux Play.6104]

@Vagrant.7206 said:

@Zoltreez.6435 said:weakness is a 50% chance to deal 50% less dmg...

so bassicaly its just a 25% dmg reduction that only last for a few seconds.... and its realy rare on skills allot of times needs to be traited and lots of the times on situational skills...

if you constantly lose fights because weakness im not sure you should pvp then.....

Also necro does not have Protection only Weakness... and event hat needs to be traited.... as a grandmaster trait....

@aelska.4609 said:Protection is already there to give significant damage reduction.

Weakness also reduces crits -- any glancing blow cannot do crit damage. So weakness is super effective against classes like thieves and warriors who benefit massively from crits.

Also, the fact is, weakness is fundamentally different in its functionality from damage reduction -- you're specifically reducing one person's damage output, not reducing damage input. A person with weakness can change targets, but protection cannot transfer easily.

Pretty tough to use condi on warrior unless you can spam boon corrupt due to their high resistance up time. Good thiefs hit and run so they won't just sit and spam skills while weakness is up they just reset and come back when it is off.

[aelska.4609]

Resistance is still an aberration by itself; it was somehow controlled with only one class being able to share it with a specific build (mallyx rev) but, as everything, anet made it more accessible with other classes. In any case I would agree with someone saying "dont reduce the number of condis applied because you have resistance", my point of view remains "nerf (or totally remove) resistance, reduce the number of condis applied".

Back to weakness, it is way too strong in its current form. Totally annihilating the effect of three combined stats (power/preci/ferocity) with only one condi, that does not even require any investment in condi-related stats, was already a very stupid decision. Making it more and more accessible is not stupid, but reterded. The same applies with resistance: it annihilates the condi stats without even a single investment in a stat.

[Crystal Black.8190]

Resistance was fine when only rev could get it and it was somehow his only real defense to conditions because he lacks cleanse. I liked the idea of malyx with applying resistance and conditions on himself and then copying the conditions he had to targets, unfortunately it didn't made its way into the game.I think sooner or later we will need another boon/condition rework until the the situation will just getting worse. Resistance is somehow similar to stability before it got changed from stacking duration to removing a stack if hit by cc, just that resistance is worse.

[feetpicenjoyer.6418]

@Crystal Black.8190 said:Resistance was fine when only rev could get it and it was somehow his only real defense to conditions because he lacks cleanse. I liked the idea of malyx with applying resistance and conditions on himself and then copying the conditions he had to targets, unfortunately it didn't made its way into the game.

It DID make its way into the game and revs used to run around with perma resistance, but after sold enough copies of HoT they nerfed it because obviously they were broken.

Then here we are with PoF when warrior got perma resistance to sell the expansion to the PvP wannabes again.