Diversion

[Justine.6351]

2 minutes ago, Salt Mode.3780 said:

We are talking about daze not CC and if u really want to talk about daze thief has a shortbow that does a incredible job of AoEing that is more reliable then our shatter. 

Reason why I say mantra is garbage is for 2 reasons, first you are forced to use 1 of 3 utility slot secondly aside from the daze it offers nothing afterwards unless u slot powerblock back then when you casted it there at least was bonus effect which was gone when the mantra was changed. If you compare the cooldowns VS initiatives, thieves spamming the daze would still have more impact then Mesmers cooldowns.

We were talking interrupts.

I do like what choking gas looks like, didn't realize they removed the poison stacks requirement. That skill does make me a little envious. It does seem expensive though. I like mantra of distraction more or less because it has 2 charges and is instant 1200 range aoe.

[Salt Mode.3780]

2 minutes ago, Justine.6351 said:

We were talking interrupts.

I do like what choking gas looks like, didn't realize they removed the poison stacks requirement. That skill does make me a little envious. It does seem expensive though. I like mantra of distraction more or less because it has 2 charges and is instant 1200 range aoe.

are you forgetting that its also unblockable?

[Justine.6351]

1 minute ago, Salt Mode.3780 said:

are you forgetting that its also unblockable?

I said it does make me envious.

[Yoci.2481]

6 hours ago, Justine.6351 said:

There are more cc skills than that. And the mantra is not garbage. And the shatter is a pbaoe so you don't even need a target. And there is a thing called initiative. If they are dumping it all into headshot spam they are effed. And headshot is a projectile, hello projectile denial.

The shatter is single target, not aoe.

[phokus.8934]

32 minutes ago, Yoci.2481 said:

The shatter is single target, not aoe.

Diversion is a single target 240 radius aoe.

[Zenith.7301]

Powerblock doesn't even do the amount of damage impacting disruption does over a fight anyways, that guy doesn't know what he's talking about.

[Justine.6351]

10 hours ago, Zenith.7301 said:

Powerblock doesn't even do the amount of damage impacting disruption does over a fight anyways, that guy doesn't know what he's talking about.

power block does the damage impacting disruption does over a fight, you don't know what you are talking about because you do not play power block.

[Yoci.2481]

22 hours ago, phokus.8934 said:

Diversion is a single target 240 radius aoe.

Yes you do not literally have to have a target selected for the skill to connect. But you do anyway because of course you have a target selected. That's the big "advantage". It's still single target.

[Justine.6351]

43 minutes ago, Yoci.2481 said:

Yes you do not literally have to have a target selected for the skill to connect. But you do anyway because of course you have a target selected. That's the big "advantage". It's still single target.

Have you never used it on someone in stealth? Or your target is at range but you got someone in your face? Or both as in you are targeting someone at range but boom, thief comes out of stealth and you pop it to stop him from dumpstering you? Beyond this, you can trait it for multiple targets. I don't but I assumed most shatter mesmers did already anyhow.

[phokus.8934]

2 hours ago, Yoci.2481 said:

Yes you do not literally have to have a target selected for the skill to connect. But you do anyway because of course you have a target selected. That's the big "advantage". It's still single target.

No one said anything about it hitting multiple targets.  The person you quoted said it's a pbaoe, which it is, and then you said it's not an aoe but a single target.  And then I corrected you as shatters are a 240 radius aoe.

You're trying to argue something to be right that no one is talking about.

[FarmBotXD.1430]

On 2/4/2022 at 10:15 AM, Salt Mode.3780 said:

Power block is still gated by:

Pistol 5 that has a long CD

Mantra that is garbage to use (also utility slot)

Mirage sword 1 which you have to use a dodge to get ambush and its close combat.

And last but not least unreliable shatter which also has a long CD

 

VS a daze that is also a 100% combo finisher + no CD on a weapon skill.....its clear who is the winner in terms of being able to utilize daze more effectively. 

Added bonus dagger pistol is the best weapon set for thieves.

nobody uses pulminary because damage is dog kitten, PB is better in every way, and headshot by itself is kitten for anything other then rez signet/heal skill rupt, for everything else it just better to dodge skills or blind + damage by shadowshot spam.
No mesmer is not in a good spot but mantra and PB are very good skills/trait combo

[FarmBotXD.1430]

10 hours ago, Justine.6351 said:

Have you never used it on someone in stealth? Or your target is at range but you got someone in your face? Or both as in you are targeting someone at range but boom, thief comes out of stealth and you pop it to stop him from dumpstering you? Beyond this, you can trait it for multiple targets. I don't but I assumed most shatter mesmers did already anyhow.

F3 is double edged sword, yes its cool its " aoe " but then its random who it hits since its single target, fighting other mesmers or rangers or in teamfights it can hit random kitten like pets/clones/minions or just wrong targets without aoe traited

[Salt Mode.3780]

7 minutes ago, FarmBotXD.1430 said:

nobody uses pulminary because damage is dog kitten, PB is better in every way, and headshot by itself is kitten for anything other then rez signet/heal skill rupt, for everything else it just better to dodge skills or blind + damage by shadowshot spam.
No mesmer is not in a good spot but mantra and PB are very good skills/trait combo

Like I said Headshot is a weapon skill that has no CD with a 100% combo finisher vs a Mantra that uses up a utility slot + a grandmaster trait forcing you to commit to that traitline in order for it to be good. Is it good yes hell yea it is a good combo but is it cost efficient in terms of a build no it isn't, you are using a utility slot + a GM traitline. 

By doing so even if the daze is less effective it doesn't restrict utility slots or traitline usage.

At the end of the day the purpose of a daze is to interrupt.

Edited February 6, 2022 by Salt Mode.3780

[FarmBotXD.1430]

2 minutes ago, Salt Mode.3780 said:

Like I said Headshot is a weapon skill that has no CD with a 100% combo finisher vs a Mantra that uses up a utility slot + a grandmaster trait forcing you to commit to that traitline in order for it to be good. Is it good yes hell yea it is a good combo but is it cost efficient in terms of a build no it isn't, you are using a utility slot + a GM traitline. 

By doing so even if the daze is less effective it doesn't restrict utility slots or traitline usage.

1 longer range
2 aoe
3 ignores proj block/reflect
4 instant
5 more damage ( assuming both trait rupt )
6 skill CD extension
7 vulnerability 
8 weakness
9 daze duration 1s vs 0,25s.
This seems like a lot of kittening upsides, also headshot costs 4 ini, which is a decent chunk, its almost entire shadow-shot.
The reason why thief compares to mesmer in rupts is steal not HS, as HS is medicore

[Salt Mode.3780]

6 minutes ago, FarmBotXD.1430 said:

1 longer range
2 aoe
3 ignores proj block/reflect
4 instant
5 more damage ( assuming both trait rupt )
6 skill CD extension
7 vulnerability 
8 weakness
9 daze duration 1s vs 0,25s.
This seems like a lot of kittening upsides, also headshot costs 4 ini, which is a decent chunk, its almost entire shadow-shot.
The reason why thief compares to mesmer in rupts is steal not HS, as HS is medicore

Lol Thank you for bringing to the next point, HS was just the appetizer but thank you for mentioning steal. 

In terms of skill CD extension vulnerability and weakness as well as doing damage this is from traiting PB not because the mantra itself has those utility.

So the upside to mantra is Range, 180 AoE (which really isn't anything), Ignores block/reflect downside is it is a 24 sec recharge per use. 

Headshot is a 100% combo finisher (which most people undervalue this) on a 4 initiative use which is STILL a lower CD per recharge usage. 

Terms of damage both are neglectable and both are instant. 

Difference is headshot doesn't require you to trait it to make full use of it whereas mantra does. That is the point I am trying to make. When weapon skills become comparable to utility skills that is a problem considering utility skills are suppose to be more impactful.

[Justine.6351]

2 hours ago, FarmBotXD.1430 said:

1 longer range
2 aoe
3 ignores proj block/reflect
4 instant
5 more damage ( assuming both trait rupt )
6 skill CD extension
7 vulnerability 
8 weakness
9 daze duration 1s vs 0,25s.
This seems like a lot of kittening upsides, also headshot costs 4 ini, which is a decent chunk, its almost entire shadow-shot.
The reason why thief compares to mesmer in rupts is steal not HS, as HS is medicore

yeah it ends up being a lot of vulnerability from domination. I also trait for quickness on rupt. Boon removal on shatter is probably better but I like interrupting stuff to be annoying so I went that route.

[Senqu.8054]

I know it was slightly mentioned but If power block is in discussion I want to highlight:

 

A lot of people forget that traits and utility skills always come with trade offs because you have to give up other options for it. Not so much weapon skills and class mechanic skills.
 

So while power block is a strong tool you have to take in consideration that mesmer has to give up:

 

 

On power:

- +30% damage on F1 (which is the main source of damage for power mesmer) 

- condi remove or portal (because you occupied to one utility slot you have with mantra)

- and if not combined with mantra or mirage you don’t even have a instant daze skill beside f3 which has a disadvantage in itself lol

- 1 utility skill is always occupied by blink the other one by SoM. This in addition to the basically non existence of condi removes makes the choice for Interrupt Mantra inevitable to a choice agains condi remove.

 

On condi:

- a whole kitten trait line (which only works for mirage btw.)

 

 

Second, have I missed something or is power mesmer still one of the worst options in game? So why is it again a trait that happens to be used by condi mirage that gets in focus of discussions and more or less raises the question of balance.

[Avion Blade.4869]

Single target diversion daze with clones can be chained by having 3 clones up with illusionary ambush. The clones will be around the opponent from different distances and angles, so they will daze one at a time.

[Salt Mode.3780]

7 hours ago, Avion Blade.4869 said:

Single target diversion daze with clones can be chained by having 3 clones up with illusionary ambush. The clones will be around the opponent from different distances and angles, so they will daze one at a time.

that is the ideal situation when clones had a higher health pool