The Inquest at Rata Arcanum.

[ugrakarma.9416]

im redoing old achievs, and them "People Watching".

the whispers agent mentions Inquest found something that make they forget about balthazar.

anything importante came from this plotline? or just really dont matter/was forget?

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

It's pretty much stated in the very same sentence:

Whispers Agent: Balthazar brought them here. But they forgot all about him once the discovered Zinn's Rata Arcanum.

Whispers Agent: Now they're obsessed with excavating all Zinn's tech and knowledge, not to mention finding his corpse if it's here.

It's basically just saying the Inquest no longer care about helping Balthazar, and prefer to focus on escavating Rata Arcanum itself. This interest in Zinn's research does carry into Season 4, with them having discovered the lab Zinn set up in Fahranur, which in turn fed into Rata Primus and the Scarab Plague storylines of Episodes 2-3.

Of Rata Primus, the only remaining storyline plot left, really, is Kuda and her experiments on dragon minions (which is bound to be much more difficult now that all but one of the core six are dead).

Edited February 15, 2022 by Konig Des Todes.2086

[Tyson.5160]

On 2/14/2022 at 7:52 PM, Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

Of Rata Primus, the only remaining storyline plot left, really, is Kuda and her experiments on dragon minions (which is bound to be much more difficult now that all but one of the core six are dead).

I could see the inquest with all their data on Elder Dragons, to try to make their own Elder Dragon something akin to mechna Godzilla.

[The Greyhawk.9107]

3 hours ago, Tyson.5160 said:

I could see the inquest with all their data on Elder Dragons, to try to make their own Elder Dragon something akin to mechna Godzilla.

Hmmm, has a bit of potential.

[Tyson.5160]

18 hours ago, The Greyhawk.9107 said:

Hmmm, has a bit of potential.

Especially when we see these project Alpha and Project Beta from Kuda…

[Sajuuk Khar.1509]

Having the Inquest make some sort of Elder Dragon magic monster would be a nice plot point for after EoD.

As is the Inquest are the only racial enemy group still around as a hostile force in any real capacity. With EoD seemingly ending the Elder Dragon plot, us getting one last big Inquest story ala "Bug in the system" to end their organization/research once and for all would make for a fitting post EoD release. And would wrap up the last of the racial enemy storylines.

Edited February 18, 2022 by Sajuuk Khar.1509

[maxwelgm.4315]

On 2/18/2022 at 8:19 PM, Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:

Having the Inquest make some sort of Elder Dragon magic monster would be a nice plot point for after EoD.

As is the Inquest are the only racial enemy group still around as a hostile force in any real capacity. With EoD seemingly ending the Elder Dragon plot, us getting one last big Inquest story ala "Bug in the system" to end their organization/research once and for all would make for a fitting post EoD release. And would wrap up the last of the racial enemy storylines.

 

The Nightmare Court was actually not wrapped up in any sense. We still don't know what became of their organization, leadership or ideals and we didn't have any actual confirmation whether or not they ever disbanded. Then again, we don't even really know much about either Dream or Nightmare as far as direct involvement to the main story goes, so I suppose this is something other than the Inquest that Anet could delve on after EoD.

 

The Inquest and Asura in general for that matter can also do very whacky stuff that can be refreshingly not related to Elder Dragons, the prime example being Arkk's story from the Chaos, Nightmare and Shattered Observatory fractals, as well as the Asuran personal story's alternate timeline of the Asuran Commander where they actually created the Steam creatures. Without relying on Gods, Demons or Realm of Torment shenanigans, the Inquest and the Aetherblade are the couple of best factions for us to explore alternate stories related to the Mists once we can leave behind Aurene's story arc. I don't think "The Inquest are trying to create their own Elder Dragon" would be as fun to be honest, even though I can very well see they trying to pull this off.

[Sajuuk Khar.1509]

2 hours ago, maxwelgm.4315 said:

The Nightmare Court was actually not wrapped up in any sense. We still don't know what became of their organization, leadership or ideals and we didn't have any actual confirmation whether or not they ever disbanded. Then again, we don't even really know much about either Dream or Nightmare as far as direct involvement to the main story goes, so I suppose this is something other than the Inquest that Anet could delve on after EoD.

They kind of where though.The Sylvari were never a particularly a large species(due to only being a few decades old) and the Inquest only made up a minority of them. Between the losses they suffer in

• All the open world stuff
• The story content
• Our attack on their HQ which drove out Failoan, their leader
• Our multiple return trips to kill those trying to take her place
• The losses they suffered in the Toxic alliance, and our return return to Twilight Arbor for the Aetherpath
• The numbers they lose to Mordremoth during HoT

The plausibility of them being around in any significant capacity dwindles to near zero.

What a lot of people seem to forget is that its incredibly rare you ever achieve a total annihilation of an enemy force, or their ideals. You can look at the Mafia in the U.S. as an example. There was a time when they were incredibly powerful, and lorded over crime in the country. Yet most people now don't even really think of them, despite the fact they still technically exist and operate in the U.S. It doesn't actually matter if we get direct confirmation that they disbanded or not. The fact that they still exist is, itself, not really a justification for them being a major story beat in the future. The losses they have suffered, as well as their initial small number, makes the plotline wrapped up as is.

The same is true of other groups like the Flame Legion, or Svanir. We don't need to be told, or directly see, every last Svanir or Flame Legion killed, or repent, to have their stories be wrapped up. The sheer number of losses, large scale destruction of their organizations, and repentance of groups like Efrahm's, already wrap up those faction's storylines as is.

There will be remnants of these groups for years, if not decades, to come. Just like there will be for the Renegades and Separatists. That doesn't mean its plot worthy to investigate them.

2 hours ago, maxwelgm.4315 said:

The Inquest and Asura in general for that matter can also do very whacky stuff that can be refreshingly not related to Elder Dragons, the prime example being Arkk's story from the Chaos, Nightmare and Shattered Observatory fractals, as well as the Asuran personal story's alternate timeline of the Asuran Commander where they actually created the Steam creatures. Without relying on Gods, Demons or Realm of Torment shenanigans, the Inquest and the Aetherblade are the couple of best factions for us to explore alternate stories related to the Mists once we can leave behind Aurene's story arc. I don't think "The Inquest are trying to create their own Elder Dragon" would be as fun to be honest, even though I can very well see they trying to pull this off.

I think what you suggest here would be a very massive narrative misstep.

The Inquest being some major narrative hook for Mists stuff doesn't really work because its already stretching plausibility that they continue to exist, with the forces they have, after literally years of just beating them down, and the destruction of two, city sized, bases(Crucible of Eternity, and Rata Primus). Trying to force them in as the plot hook for Mists content, when we already have far better, and more realistic, plot hooks with the gods, and mist demons, just reeks of fan-kitten, and trying to keep them around for longer then they should be.

Similarly, the Aetherblades were a small group of pirates that only got as far as they did in LWS1 because they surprised people. We pretty much defeated their organization back in LWS1, and they are only an issue in EoD because they led the leaders get away, and rebuild over the last literal decade. But even with that, having the Aetherblades be something that lasts beyond EoD, and possibly LWS6 as remnants, wouldn't make sense with the scale of their operation. It would just be forcing them into a mists storyline for fan-kitten, ignoring the far better suited plot points we already have set up like demons and older gods. They simply aren't this multi-expansion/LWS threat.

If we do a Mists plot(which I suspect is where the story will head after EoD/LWS6) then it shouldn't be rehashes of the Inquest and Aetherblades. Groups that have gotten enough content far beyond what they really should have gotten. It should be things that come from the Mists, and hasn't had much content already, like Mist demons.

Edited February 20, 2022 by Sajuuk Khar.1509

[Narcemus.1348]

I think the biggest way that we can tell there is still some life in an organization is whether they have leadership left. Not because that actually means something, but because it points to the idea that ArenaNet still have plans for them. The inquest still has Kuda, and the Nightmare Court has Duchess Chrysantha(sp?). I Ephram represents the leadership and repentance of the Flame Legion, the Icebrood have no known leadership but probably have a small post Jormag death story to be told, and the bandits/white mantle are also leaderless, as are the centaurs. So I could see stories still come from the Nightmare Court, Inquest, and maybe a small wrap up story with former Icebrood leadership. 

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

Additionally, following the end of HoT, we see an example of a sylvari returning from being a Mordrem Guard. This would mean even Nightmare Courtiers who fell likely returned to their old self, so many losses they faced in HoT could end up being reversed. Even more than that, they could recruit those disturbed by the change.

Additionally, keep in mind that the Nightmare Court is formed around the Nightmare itself, an ever-present presence in the Dream of Dreams that can affect newborn sylvari just as well as old sylvari .Even if the Nightmare Court gets wiped out, the Nightmare would persist and continue a slow conversion of sylvari into villainy until that matter is solved. It's been 7 years now, the Nightmare Court could easily keep recruiting so long as the Nightmare remains present in the Dream of Dreams. This isn't quite like the Mafia or some religious cult - it's an innate aspect of the sylvari's very foundation.

Rather than saying "the Nightmare Court is still a future plot", it's more accurate to say the Nightmare is a future plot.

 

Just like how the Renegades became a plot in IBS via rebranding as the Dominion (despite some people's claims that they'd never, ever return in a future plot because of Ajax's death), the Nightmare Court will no doubt return in some form via the Nightmare's still continuing growth and threat in the sylvari race's story.

[Sajuuk Khar.1509]

6 hours ago, Narcemus.1348 said:

I think the biggest way that we can tell there is still some life in an organization is whether they have leadership left. Not because that actually means something, but because it points to the idea that ArenaNet still have plans for them. The inquest still has Kuda, and the Nightmare Court has Duchess Chrysantha(sp?). I Ephram represents the leadership and repentance of the Flame Legion, the Icebrood have no known leadership but probably have a small post Jormag death story to be told, and the bandits/white mantle are also leaderless, as are the centaurs. So I could see stories still come from the Nightmare Court, Inquest, and maybe a small wrap up story with former Icebrood leadership. 

Most fallen organizations still have some sort of leadership left to organize them. The Mafia still has leadership for example. Again, that doesn't really mean anything.

Also the Icebrood are just dragon minions, who lack intelligence. I think you were probably thinking of the Svanir, and the Svanir's leader(outside of Jormag) was the Fraenir, who we killed back in Bjora.

If the Nightmare court show up it will be as an accessory piece to a Malyck story, but the story would be about Malyck and his tree, and finding out what happened to them. Not of the Court itself.

[Narcemus.1348]

16 hours ago, Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:

Most fallen organizations still have some sort of leadership left to organize them. The Mafia still has leadership for example. Again, that doesn't really mean anything.

Also the Icebrood are just dragon minions, who lack intelligence. I think you were probably thinking of the Svanir, and the Svanir's leader(outside of Jormag) was the Fraenir, who we killed back in Bjora.

If the Nightmare court show up it will be as an accessory piece to a Malyck story, but the story would be about Malyck and his tree, and finding out what happened to them. Not of the Court itself.

I specifically noted that having leadership does not mean anything by itself. But in the context of the game, it shows that at least at some point the game designers had more plans for the organization. I am very intrigued personally why the Nightmare Court duchess was left in the final instance of the Mouth of Mordremoth fight when her entire story was cut. And yes, I did indeed mean Svanir.

[Sajuuk Khar.1509]

12 hours ago, Narcemus.1348 said:

I specifically noted that having leadership does not mean anything by itself. But in the context of the game, it shows that at least at some point the game designers had more plans for the organization. I am very intrigued personally why the Nightmare Court duchess was left in the final instance of the Mouth of Mordremoth fight when her entire story was cut. And yes, I did indeed mean Svanir.

I don't really think it shows anything beyond Anet acknowledging that yeah, they haven't been entirely wiped out down to the last courtier.

As for why leaving the NPC there... why not? They needed an NPC for that island, and already had one made. From what we know the "Nightmare Court story" in HoT was all of one small section where we freed some Sylvari NPCs, and in the original version they were Nightmare Court who explained a bit about what was going on with them during the larger crisis.

Much like the original plans for Malyck in HoT, which were nothing big, the Nightmare court stuff was itself nothing big because they aren't really important in the larger scheme of the setting.

[Narcemus.1348]

11 hours ago, Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:

I don't really think it shows anything beyond Anet acknowledging that yeah, they haven't been entirely wiped out down to the last courtier.

As for why leaving the NPC there... why not? They needed an NPC for that island, and already had one made. From what we know the "Nightmare Court story" in HoT was all of one small section where we freed some Sylvari NPCs, and in the original version they were Nightmare Court who explained a bit about what was going on with them during the larger crisis.

Much like the original plans for Malyck in HoT, which were nothing big, the Nightmare court stuff was itself nothing big because they aren't really important in the larger scheme of the setting.

I guess I should specify, leaving the NPC in isn't the weirdest part. It is the dialogue with her afterwards that shows we know her on some level that was weird when we never met her. But honestly none of that matters in the context of this discussion so I will leave it there.