The Commander's power level [spoilers]

[NorthernRedStar.3054]

Think it's inarguable that the player character as of 'The Only One' is the most powerful dragon champion to ever exist, since Aurene can grant them a massive boost on a whim / per request.

On a
- Elder Dragon
- Human God
- Demigod

- Dragon Champion

- axis, where do you think they place, exactly?

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

Under normal circumstances, the Commander remains weaker than a typical dragon champion throughout most of End of Dragons. They're certainly weak enough that Minister Li and his Purist cronies felt like they could take the Commander on and win. They were even overwhelmed by the Void manifestations until boosted by Aurene's power.

With Aurene's power boost, though, I'd say the Commander is on par to a demigod. The Dragonvoid manifestations weren't on par to actual Elder Dragons, as two (mind you exceptional) people were able to hold their own against each one, even if slowly losing. An actual Elder Dragon would have wiped the floor with each platform, and wiped out the platform. I'd argue each manifestation was dragon champion level in the end, which marks the Commander as being demigod (Balthazar / Dhuum) level of power at the time.

 

(Also, why list Elder Dragon above Human God, when they're generally on par to each other? The way Kormir said it, and displayed her own power in a moment of anger, I'd even say Human God > Elder Dragon in a 1-on-1, so long as said Elder Dragon didn't get power boosted from other Elder Dragons or demigods...)

[Pax.3548]

3 hours ago, Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

Under normal circumstances, the Commander remains weaker than a typical dragon champion throughout most of End of Dragons. They're certainly weak enough that Minister Li and his Purist cronies felt like they could take the Commander on and win. They were even overwhelmed by the Void manifestations until boosted by Aurene's power.

With Aurene's power boost, though, I'd say the Commander is on par to a demigod. The Dragonvoid manifestations weren't on par to actual Elder Dragons, as two (mind you exceptional) people were able to hold their own against each one, even if slowly losing. An actual Elder Dragon would have wiped the floor with each platform, and wiped out the platform. I'd argue each manifestation was dragon champion level in the end, which marks the Commander as being demigod (Balthazar / Dhuum) level of power at the time.

 

(Also, why list Elder Dragon above Human God, when they're generally on par to each other? The way Kormir said it, and displayed her own power in a moment of anger, I'd even say Human God > Elder Dragon in a 1-on-1, so long as said Elder Dragon didn't get power boosted from other Elder Dragons or demigods...)

I mostly agree with this, though I wonder if pushed hard enough, what could the commander face in that state? they defeated the void after all with the magic provided by a weakened Aurene (As I recall, she didn't recover her stolen powers before doing this)

Edited March 8, 2022 by Pax.3548

[SunRoamer.5103]

I feel obliged to leave you with this wonderful post from a recent, similar topic:

On 1/14/2022 at 6:09 PM, DanAlcedo.3281 said:

We run 294 units a second (Out of combat)

A unit (according to the wiki) is one inch.

So we run 16.7 miles per hour. (26,9 kmh)

With Swiftness, that 22,7 mph ( 36,5 kmh)

 

For thoughness.

In All or nothing, we got send flying by kralk and crashed into a wall.

It took 4 seconds from the starting point to us crashing into the wall.

It takes roughly 110 seconds at crippled speed to get from that point back to the place we started.

My (bad) math says that should be roughly 400m (1300 feet).

 

So we crashed into a wall with roughly 360kmh / 224 mph.

And we stood up from it and started walking again with most likely broken rips.

Now thats what i call a beast.

 

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

43 minutes ago, Pax.3548 said:

I mostly agree with this, though I wonder if pushed hard enough, what could the commander face in that state? they defeated the void after all with the magic provided by a weakened Aurene (As I recall, she didn't recover her stolen powers before doing this)

Unless there's a second point of Aurene's power being stolen, she did recover during Act 1/2, before going off to chase Soo-Won. Aurene was no longer weakened, and was even empowered from siphoning and cleansing magic during the Dragon's End meta.

[Pax.3548]

40 minutes ago, Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

Unless there's a second point of Aurene's power being stolen, she did recover during Act 1/2, before going off to chase Soo-Won. Aurene was no longer weakened, and was even empowered from siphoning and cleansing magic during the Dragon's End meta.

Ankka captured Aurene's magic (which at the core contained the complete magic of the elder Dragon, Kralk, some of balth's and mordremoth magic too), then released it at Soo-Won which in turn caused the void corruption an manifestastion in Soo-Won, its true that Aurene got recharged a little thanks to Joon, but she didn't recover the core of the elder dragon's magic stolen from her. Thats why the meta in dragon's end fail when the timer ends, Aurene depletes her strength and becomes to tired to drag the event, same when she charges up the commander in the only one instance, when she mentions she's getting tired and can't hold the power up for much longer, or something among those lines

Edited March 8, 2022 by Pax.3548

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

The meta failure dialogue is more of a mechanical thing - it's not like it canonically fails and starts up again with Logan and co. flying in from Tyria.

During Act 2's finale, Aurene flies off after Soo-Won, and has been holding her in the Jade Sea area the entire time during Acts 3 and 4. Aurene being weakened is never brought up again. She's weaker than Soo-Won, but more because Soo-Won got a major power boost from the void magic situation. And as I said, Dragon's End events highlight that Aurene gained power from cleansing the void magic at the five prism locations. Both before and during the meta.

Similarly with The Only One, Aurene mentions being strained by keeping the void contained - but that doesn't imply she's weakened still. After all, she's holding off the spread of a literal world ending force by herself at that moment.

[NorthernRedStar.3054]

7 hours ago, Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

Under normal circumstances, the Commander remains weaker than a typical dragon champion throughout most of End of Dragons. They're certainly weak enough that Minister Li and his Purist cronies felt like they could take the Commander on and win. They were even overwhelmed by the Void manifestations until boosted by Aurene's power.

With Aurene's power boost, though, I'd say the Commander is on par to a demigod. The Dragonvoid manifestations weren't on par to actual Elder Dragons, as two (mind you exceptional) people were able to hold their own against each one, even if slowly losing. An actual Elder Dragon would have wiped the floor with each platform, and wiped out the platform. I'd argue each manifestation was dragon champion level in the end, which marks the Commander as being demigod (Balthazar / Dhuum) level of power at the time.

 

(Also, why list Elder Dragon above Human God, when they're generally on par to each other? The way Kormir said it, and displayed her own power in a moment of anger, I'd even say Human God > Elder Dragon in a 1-on-1, so long as said Elder Dragon didn't get power boosted from other Elder Dragons or demigods...)

Another interesting comparison is The Commander wielding Sohothin (a god's own crafted sword) versus Elder Dragon buff. The list wasn't in any particular order, and I agree they're roughly on par with one another. Although, it makes sense the gods would win eventually considering they're more versatile, knowledgeable and intelligent.

Dragonvoid-empowered Soo-Won is more powerful than any god individually, though (= essentially her before she divided her domain between the other five dragons, wielding god-creator power).

Lastly, the pairs did not hold their own against the elder dragon manifestations, only their champions (in a futile losing bid none the less). The manifestations spawned in response to the commander progressing.  Keep in mind the platforms themselves are dragonjade, hardly comparable to the material Mordremoth bit down during Dragon's Stand meta.

Edited March 9, 2022 by NorthernRedStar.3054

[Pax.3548]

2 hours ago, Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

The meta failure dialogue is more of a mechanical thing - it's not like it canonically fails and starts up again with Logan and co. flying in from Tyria.

During Act 2's finale, Aurene flies off after Soo-Won, and has been holding her in the Jade Sea area the entire time during Acts 3 and 4. Aurene being weakened is never brought up again. She's weaker than Soo-Won, but more because Soo-Won got a major power boost from the void magic situation. And as I said, Dragon's End events highlight that Aurene gained power from cleansing the void magic at the five prism locations. Both before and during the meta.

Similarly with The Only One, Aurene mentions being strained by keeping the void contained - but that doesn't imply she's weakened still. After all, she's holding off the spread of a literal world ending force by herself at that moment.

All I've seen during the story and events is that Aurene was left pretty weakened after her magic was stolen, would't you think an elder dragon fully powered could have had a chance to contain Soo-Won better? and you ignore my comment about Aurene's elder dragon magic getting stolen and given to Soo-Won, which then manifested the void for the first time, and who only released all the magic contained after we extracted it from her at the only one

Edited March 9, 2022 by Pax.3548
Add another idea

[Pax.3548]

2 hours ago, Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

The meta failure dialogue is more of a mechanical thing - it's not like it canonically fails and starts up again with Logan and co. flying in from Tyria.

During Act 2's finale, Aurene flies off after Soo-Won, and has been holding her in the Jade Sea area the entire time during Acts 3 and 4. Aurene being weakened is never brought up again. She's weaker than Soo-Won, but more because Soo-Won got a major power boost from the void magic situation. And as I said, Dragon's End events highlight that Aurene gained power from cleansing the void magic at the five prism locations. Both before and during the meta.

Similarly with The Only One, Aurene mentions being strained by keeping the void contained - but that doesn't imply she's weakened still. After all, she's holding off the spread of a literal world ending force by herself at that moment.

All I've seen during the story and events is that Aurene was left pretty weakened after her magic was stolen, would't you think an elder dragon fully powered could have had a chance to contain Soo-Won better? and you ignore my comment about Aurene's elder dragon magic getting stolen and given to Soo-Won, which then manifested the void for the first time, and who only released all the magic contained after we extracted it from her at the only one.

 

And the meta failure dialogue is not mechanical, it explain why  the event can fail, even when we're fighting alongside an elder dragon: because she doesn't have the power of an elder dragon as it was stolen from her

Edited March 9, 2022 by Pax.3548

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

3 hours ago, NorthernRedStar.3054 said:

Dragonvoid-empowered Soo-Won is more powerful than any god individually, though (= essentially her before she divided her domain between the other five dragons, wielding god-creator power).

Hmm, I'm not really so sure of this. Besides the fact that, until the final instance, Soo-Won never gave off that feeling of "god-creator powers", let alone being an ancient primordial being like the other five elder dragons (she felt more like an empowered Glint or Kuunavang figured - ancient but not primordial). But more importantly: At Soo-Won's full might seen, she was warping reality halfway across the globe, and that's pretty freaking strong and world-ending indeed (the only time she actually felt like a "world creator" as she was said to be time and time again). But during Nightfall, Abaddon's power was sealed away by eight "gates", and during the course of the story Varesh unlocks three of them - we never got to see Tyria after the third was unlocked (which happens during Ruins of Morah mission, opening a permanent portal to the Realm of Torment that persists in GW2), but even with just two, he's doing stuff on practically par to Season 4 Kralkatorrik (and with none unlocked he still did some major damage, just far more isolated, with the remnants visible in GW2 at Tomb of the Primeval Kings), and that's saying something. If 1/4th of his power is roughly Season 4 Kralkatorrik - the second strongest opponent faced in GW2 - then Abaddon at full might was very kittening strong.

Abaddon was said to be capable of defeating 2 of the other gods by himself, though it's never clarified if this was because of his domain knowing the others' weaknesses, or if he was just that strong, but that could mean that every other god is twice as strong as Season 4 Kralkatorrik at their full might if Abaddon were 4x as strong.

How that relates to Soo-Won is hard to tell, as her Dragonvoid-corrupted self only really gains full destructive might at the very end.

I know I said earlier that the Elder Dragons are 'more or less on par', but the thing is that Elder Dragon strength is very variable while Six Gods strength is static - under their normal strength (e.g., Mordremoth's, Jormag's, and Primordus' power level when fought and killed), they seem weaker than the gods; while at heightened strength (e.g., Kralkatorrik in S4, Dragonvoid Soo-Won), they might be more on-par.

It's hard to tell, though, as we've yet to witness a single god go full out, unlike the Elder Dragons. All we have are former gods like Balthazar and Dhuum, or sealed-up gods like Abaddon.

3 hours ago, NorthernRedStar.3054 said:

Lastly, the pairs did not hold their own against the elder dragon manifestations, only their champions (in a futile losing bid none the less). The manifestations spawned in response to the commander progressing.  Keep in mind the platforms themselves are dragonjade, hardly comparable to the material Mordremoth bit down during Dragon's Stand meta.

That wasn't the sense of what was going on that I got while going through, but it was pretty hectic so maybe.

Either way, those manifestations were definitely weaker than the normal Elder Dragons' selves. Even with the Commander around, even with Sohothin or a scion, it took armies to take down just one Elder Dragon. I rather doubt an Aurene-empowered Commander could 1v1 a full fledged Elder Dragon. At best, maybe they'd be a bit stronger than a herald champion (e.g., Drakkar, Great Destroyer, Glint, Ryland, Braham... Commander).

2 hours ago, Pax.3548 said:

All I've seen during the story and events is that Aurene was left pretty weakened after her magic was stolen, would't you think an elder dragon fully powered could have had a chance to contain Soo-Won better? and you ignore my comment about Aurene's elder dragon magic getting stolen and given to Soo-Won, which then manifested the void for the first time, and who only released all the magic contained after we extracted it from her at the only one.

 

And the meta failure dialogue is not mechanical, it explain why  the event can fail, even when we're fighting alongside an elder dragon: because she doesn't have the power of an elder dragon as it was stolen from her

Not really. Keep in mind that Soo-Won was portrayed as the creator of all life on the planet - for whatever much that means. That's pretty freakin' powerful even if the sense of it wasn't really showcased well in-game. She nerfed herself when she made her children connected to other domains so as to try to balance the Void better, but with the Void returning to her and becoming the Dragonvoid, she became a literal world-ending threat, capable of shifting reality in not just the Jade Sea but Grothmar and everywhere in between. That's stronger than even Kralkatorrik at the height of his seen power with Mists-hoping abilities, as for all the might he had, he still needed direct physical access to locations via portals - Soo-Won didn't.

For Aurene to hold that back puts her at least on par to a full fledged Elder Dragon, if not on par to Season 4 Kralkatorrik but most certainly the strongest foe faced in either game (seeing as Abaddon was still chained and 5 of 8 locks blocking his strength sealed, otherwise I feel Abaddon would be the strongest foe ever faced, still). No weakened Elder Dragon is that powerful.

 

As to the event meta dialogue - what I mean is that it isn't canon to the storyline. It just doesn't make logical sense for Logan and the others to return all the way back to Tyria before a second attempt. Unlike Dragon's Stand, it seems clear that the Dragon's End meta happens only one time, and as seen with The Only One instance, it was a success.

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

You need to add spoiler warnings in posts since this is in Lore and not the EoD forum. The expansion has only been out for a week and many haven't reached the end yet.

 

The title should at least read "Spoilers for EoD" instead of just "Spoilers" I guess.

Edited March 9, 2022 by Hannelore.8153

[NorthernRedStar.3054]

6 hours ago, Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

I know I said earlier that the Elder Dragons are 'more or less on par', but the thing is that Elder Dragon strength is very variable while Six Gods strength is static - under their normal strength (e.g., Mordremoth's, Jormag's, and Primordus' power level when fought and killed), they seem weaker than the gods; while at heightened strength (e.g., Kralkatorrik in S4, Dragonvoid Soo-Won), they might be more on-par.

The correct assessment would be that elder dragon strength is defined by the amount of absorbed magic at the time.
So, a human god >>> recently awakened elder dragon, but = or even < an elder dragon who's absorbed enough magic to soon begin hibernating again. 
Another elder dragon dying and releasing its magic for others is artificially speeding up this process.

And yes, the who god's domain argument did pass my mind, too. From what I understand, every god is able to fashion and cushion their realm as they see fit, presenting each god with reality-warping powers similar to full-power Soo-Won (albeit on a smaller scale, as they're unable to create a "a (whole) world for their faithful to settle in", and are instead forced to go looking for a pre-existing one in the mists).

It's rather safe to say, either way, at this point that the reason the gods left in the first place is because they knew their victory would end up in Tyria's destruction. It's not that they didn't believe in said victory.

 

6 hours ago, Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

but even with just two, he's doing stuff on practically par to Season 4 Kralkatorrik

 

The way I understood the Nightfall occurrence wasn't as much "pure damage" caused by Abaddon, but the Realm of Torment colliding/amalgamating with Tyria. Either way, it's an impressive feat - as is the entire Crystal Desert terraforming from a sea into a desert with the damage lasting over a millenium - but I do NOT think that's the par for other gods, and can be attributed to Abaddon's domain and nature as the most knowledgeable of The Six, as well as the most magically apt. 

 

Quote

Either way, those manifestations were definitely weaker than the normal Elder Dragons' selves.

 

Yes, we both agree on this. It is unclear by how much, though. 

 

Quote

For Aurene to hold that back puts her at least on par to a full fledged Elder Dragon, 

 

Yes, think that's the picture they were going for, with her annihilating the A-blade fleet with utmost ease before getting her magic absorbed. Not on Kralkatorrik's level, though, at least not before Dragon's End meta + the boost she receives there.
When she pseudo-fuses with the commander à la Ryland e Braham? Certainly seems that way.

Edited March 9, 2022 by NorthernRedStar.3054

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

SPOILERS FOR PATH OF FIRE AND END OF DRAGONS

The power of both the Commander and Aurene fluctuates depending on circumstances for various reasons, the main one being that not all enemies are created equal.

 

Some weaker enemies have given us alot of trouble just because they had some kind of trump card that we couldn't handle, like Ankka with her Extractor and later Zhaitan's magic.  Other enemies depend on strength in numbers to simply overwhelm us like Minister Li. Of course these are always unwinnable battles for them because the Commander seems to have incredible endurance from over ten years of fighting and already having being a standout example of their race at the start.

 

Ankka even compliments the Commander on being able to take everything and largely be unphased.

 

To put this into perspective, the Commander is strong in their own right, but instead of being like a rabbit they're more like a turtle. They always win the race, even if its not in the fastest and most efficient ways. Anyone can have raw power if they work for it, not everyone can use it to their advantage.

 

Like how we beat Balthazar slowly and carefully and by using every tool in our arsenal. We're not a God of War, but we didn't need to be, we just needed to have the right tools for the encounter and to use those tools appropriately to outlast an increasingly unstable enemy who began to make mistakes in his anger.

 

So the Commander can be thought of as a complete master over their spirit and abilities.

Edited March 9, 2022 by Hannelore.8153

[maxwelgm.4315]

One last thing to mention in complement to the others is that by the time you reach the Jade Sea, Aurene is able to take you to the same "dreamscape" where you first meet Soo-Won at the start of the campaign. I take this to be a thematic nod at her having become a proper Elder Dragon and finally prepared to truly take Soo-Won's place in the All. The commander while very powerful doesn't change as much in power level from the start of the game - Aurene is the one becoming exceedingly more powerful.

 

Also note that the orb mechanics during the final battle are akin to the vision of the commander in Omadd's machine. As you break apart each orb the tormented magics from each dragon, once inside Soo-Won, are freed and absorbed by Aurene instead. So she is actually becoming even more powerful as the fight progresses until she filters the dragonvoid itself out of the Tyrian leylines. I don't think this is even a retcon to the Forgotten's ideas either - in fact their plan seems to have been more successful than they could ever have dreamed of. Aurene is not only able to filter the corruption of other Elder Dragons into her own prismatic magic but she can even reduce the push of the void itself within the leylines. I doubt she is immune to eating too much magic though, but now that she is the only one it seems like that is not in danger of happening (until she decides to have children I guess? lol).

 

[Pax.3548]

21 minutes ago, maxwelgm.4315 said:

Also note that the orb mechanics during the final battle are akin to the vision of the commander in Omadd's machine. As you break apart each orb the tormented magics from each dragon, once inside Soo-Won, are freed and absorbed by Aurene instead. So she is actually becoming even more powerful as the fight progresses until she filters the dragonvoid itself out of the Tyrian leylines. I don't think this is even a retcon to the Forgotten's ideas either - in fact their plan seems to have been more successful than they could ever have dreamed of. Aurene is not only able to filter the corruption of other Elder Dragons into her own prismatic magic but she can even reduce the push of the void itself within the leylines. I doubt she is immune to eating too much magic though, but now that she is the only one it seems like that is not in danger of happening (until she decides to have children I guess? lol).

 

Good point. The feeling I was left at the end, is that the Void will never truly disappears, only held back as long as the magics don't merge again, and eventually, in time, even Aurene could end up corrupted, a posibility that will always be there

[dusanyu.4057]

19 hours ago, Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

They're certainly weak enough that Minister Li and his Purist cronies felt like they could take the Commander on and win. They were even overwhelmed by the Void manifestations until boosted by Aurene's power.

Bad guys tend to Overestimate there capabilities not to mention they did not know who or what the commander is. and of course they payed with a Boot to the head. 

 

 

Edited March 9, 2022 by dusanyu.4057

[NorthernRedStar.3054]

4 hours ago, Hannelore.8153 said:

Like how we beat Balthazar slowly and carefully and by using every tool in our arsenal.

Balthazar was essentially fighting Kralkatorrik, us and Aurene at the same time. That's how we won the "duel". Tops, I'd imagine The Commander wielding Sohothin is the canon version of said events, too. There was no way of beating Balthazar in a direct 1-o-1. 

 

The interesting part is Sohothin's destructive capabilities are on par with Aurene's buff (albeit, hers is overall stronger and more flexible with its defensive and magical capabilities, too). This gives us a pretty good estimate of The Human Gods' power.

 

4 hours ago, Hannelore.8153 said:

So the Commander can be thought of as a complete master over their spirit and abilities.

Essentially, this. The Commander, without power-ups, is the apex of their race akin to Captain America - "as powerful as humanly possible" (include other races there as well). 
The power-up version of The Commander, however, seems to clearly edge out even Ryland and Braham at their peak. It's a fair comparison, too, since the process/bond is similar to the one upheld by Jormag and Primordus with their respective champions.
 

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

9 hours ago, NorthernRedStar.3054 said:

The correct assessment would be that elder dragon strength is defined by the amount of absorbed magic at the time.
So, a human god >>> recently awakened elder dragon, but = or even < an elder dragon who's absorbed enough magic to soon begin hibernating again. 
Another elder dragon dying and releasing its magic for others is artificially speeding up this process.

For clarification's sake, this is what I was trying to get at, but it's hard to place just where a god would lie since all we get are former gods and sealed gods and gods holding back because they're the good guys to compare to. Still, sealed Abaddon was capable of some wildly crazy capabilities when he was merging the Realm of Torment into Thyria all across Elona at once, still at a mere 1/4th of his power (2 of 8 seals broken).

9 hours ago, NorthernRedStar.3054 said:

And yes, the who god's domain argument did pass my mind, too. From what I understand, every god is able to fashion and cushion their realm as they see fit, presenting each god with reality-warping powers similar to full-power Soo-Won (albeit on a smaller scale, as they're unable to create a "a (whole) world for their faithful to settle in", and are instead forced to go looking for a pre-existing one in the mists).

Well, I wouldn't be so sure they couldn't create a world. It's entirely plausible that they simply didn't want to.

We also aren't really given details on Soo-Won "creating the world". Sometimes it's worded like she just creating life, sometimes it's worded like she created the planet itself, and sometimes it's worded like she just balanced magic... Clarification requested, dear devs. :x

9 hours ago, NorthernRedStar.3054 said:

It's rather safe to say, either way, at this point that the reason the gods left in the first place is because they knew their victory would end up in Tyria's destruction. It's not that they didn't believe in said victory.

I thought this was clear in Path of Fire with Kormir's statements?

9 hours ago, NorthernRedStar.3054 said:

The way I understood the Nightfall occurrence wasn't as much "pure damage" caused by Abaddon, but the Realm of Torment colliding/amalgamating with Tyria. Either way, it's an impressive feat - as is the entire Crystal Desert terraforming from a sea into a desert with the damage lasting over a millenium - but I do NOT think that's the par for other gods, and can be attributed to Abaddon's domain and nature as the most knowledgeable of The Six, as well as the most magically apt.

Hard to say. Melandru and Balthazar are both attributed to widespread landscape changes as well, though the alteration of the Crystal Sea and its verdant coastline to the Crystal Desert and Desolation respectively is pretty clearly a cause of multiple of the six gods fighting there - supposedly all six, but that seems like underkill tbh, especially if former god Balthazar's magic unleashing was threatening to consume all of Vabbi by itself.

 

8 hours ago, Pax.3548 said:

Good point. The feeling I was left at the end, is that the Void will never truly disappears, only held back as long as the magics don't merge again, and eventually, in time, even Aurene could end up corrupted, a posibility that will always be there

Aurene does seem to more or less say as much in the Arborstone epilogue. The Dragonvoid - the personification and corruption of dragon magics - is gone and cleansed through Aurene, but the Void itself is a constant and remains, just not as a threat (for now).

 

8 hours ago, dusanyu.4057 said:

Bad guys tend to Overestimate there capabilities not to mention they did not know who or what the commander is. and of course they payed with a Boot to the head.

I'd say Minister Li had a fairly solid idea of who the Commander was. IIRC, in Act 1 they even bring up the deeds the Commander has done - though focusing on the negatives of it, like toppling regimes.

[NorthernRedStar.3054]

1 hour ago, Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

I'd say Minister Li had a fairly solid idea of who the Commander was. IIRC, in Act 1 they even bring up the deeds the Commander has done - though focusing on the negatives of it, like toppling regimes.

Li would still measure those feats through his own bias and grasp of the world's functions - which, needless to say, are fairly limited by comparison.

In layman's terms, he had no idea what he was getting himself into.

[Kalavier.1097]

13 hours ago, Hannelore.8153 said:

To put this into perspective, the Commander is strong in their own right, but instead of being like a rabbit they're more like a turtle. They always win the race, even if its not in the fastest and most efficient ways. Anyone can have raw power if they work for it, not everyone can use it to their advantage.

 

Like how we beat Balthazar slowly and carefully and by using every tool in our arsenal. We're not a God of War, but we didn't need to be, we just needed to have the right tools for the encounter and to use those tools appropriately to outlast an increasingly unstable enemy who began to make mistakes in his anger.

 

So the Commander can be thought of as a complete master over their spirit and abilities.

 

The commander is skilled and strong, but in the aspect of having allies and friends along. They've had plenty of times fighting a bad guy alone and failing, but also fighting a bad guy with support in some way and winning.

 

20 hours ago, Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

As to the event meta dialogue - what I mean is that it isn't canon to the storyline. It just doesn't make logical sense for Logan and the others to return all the way back to Tyria before a second attempt. Unlike Dragon's Stand, it seems clear that the Dragon's End meta happens only one time, and as seen with The Only One instance, it was a success.

 

Dragon's stand also only happens once. The dialogue Laranthir gives is angled toward the Commander, who in the story went around the edge of the battlefield as it happened and went under/into the tree as they reached the outside and fought the mouth of Mordremoth.

 

I think it's back in LS1 where Anet explicitly came out and said that events/world bosses are written and intended lore-wise as being one time events, with the "event win" as being the canon ending.

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

4 minutes ago, Kalavier.1097 said:

 

The commander is skilled and strong, but in the aspect of having allies and friends along. They've had plenty of times fighting a bad guy alone and failing, but also fighting a bad guy with support in some way and winning.

 

 

Dragon's stand also only happens once. The dialogue Laranthir gives is angled toward the Commander, who in the story went around the edge of the battlefield as it happened and went under/into the tree as they reached the outside and fought the mouth of Mordremoth.

 

I think it's back in LS1 where Anet explicitly came out and said that events/world bosses are written and intended lore-wise as being one time events, with the "event win" as being the canon ending.

SPOILERS FOR HEART OF THORNS, PATH OF FIRE AND END OF DRAGONS

This is actually confirmed in-game with Joko claiming to have impaled Modremoth on a spike, the same event that actually happens at the end of Dragon's Stand. The Commander also tells some students the same thing., but clears up the truth it was the Commander who actually did it and not Joko.

 

With the last story mission in EoD confirming that was Modremoth himself (something players were on the fence about until now), the victory ending of Dragon's Stand is thus canon.

Edited March 10, 2022 by Hannelore.8153

[Pax.3548]

1 hour ago, Kalavier.1097 said:

Dragon's stand also only happens once. The dialogue Laranthir gives is angled toward the Commander, who in the story went around the edge of the battlefield as it happened and went under/into the tree as they reached the outside and fought the mouth of Mordremoth.

 

I'm not sure about this, I remember Laranthir had different dialogue depending if you did the final mission or not, and in both versions he somehow implied the mouth could regrow or something like that (which is specially logical if you didn't do the final mission before dragon stand)

[DanAlcedo.3281]

To add the Minister Li fight. 

It was basically a 6v2 fight of (probably) some of Cantha best fighters. 

And we whooped their butts, no sweat. 

Also much of the fight was the commanders alone  in an outnumbered fight. 

 

[Kalavier.1097]

11 hours ago, Pax.3548 said:

 

I'm not sure about this, I remember Laranthir had different dialogue depending if you did the final mission or not, and in both versions he somehow implied the mouth could regrow or something like that (which is specially logical if you didn't do the final mission before dragon stand)

 

The thing is, some of these instances are clearly and explicitly happening at the same time as story mode. In Dragons stand, we have the lanes fighting happening at the exact same time as commander does the instance that runs along the edge of the map. When you reach the tree IIRC the pilot actually comments on how they've cleared the lanes by that point. When you go into the instance, they directly comment on the battle happening just overheard. With dragons stand you'd have to explain why the lanes reset/the associated fortifications or discoveries like the Exalted or Golems go away. Another thing is you could sync of Mordremoth suddenly impaling his head as being when Trahearne is killed deep below, as that was marked as the killing blow for him. Suddenly his mind is gone, head falls down and stab.

 

They also have dialogue for npcs for event fails, but the story is written from the perspective of the events happening one, with a win. There was no 10 battles for LA when Scarlet invaded, but a single one. There was no 15 battles of the giant marionette. Verdant Brink happens once, then gameplay resets it to the first day after the crash.

 

Some metas occur with the commander's involvement, and others are separate as the commander does their own thing. As far as I know, unless Anet explicitly says so, meta events happen once in story.