Virtuoso is Fine, no need to not buy EoD due to forum posts

[Mell.4873]

I'm not against pointing out bugs or problems with Virtuoso. All I am saying it is not as bad and people making it out to be, I mean no need to claim that it has ruined Mesmer.

All the doom and gloom is effecting people since they see the complaining on this forum and don't buy EoD without realizing it is exaggerated.
There are many reasons the primary one being they Virtuoso has no clones, which honestly is not a big problem since it got replaced with aegis management which is just as hard.

 

Examples:

DPS: I mean Virtuoso is inline with all other Mesmer specs damage numbers and doesn't need slow for danger time like with Chronomancer.
Shout out to Crits N Dips for the video: 40K dps Video

WvW: Virtuso has massive amount of sustain with condition damage perfect for hybrid builds in WvW.
Shout out to # cyberdaemon (NsK the Mikan) for the video: Roaming WvW
Shout out to Jolltz for this video: Roaming WvW
* I tried to find some Zerg gameplay but this guy is the closest with his power Virtuoso
Shout out to Faith Navii for this video Outnumbered Roaming WvW

sPVP: I mean its a ranged sidenoder so not much explaining needs to be done.
Shout out to Vallun for this amazing guide video: Sidenoder Duelist

Edited March 9, 2022 by Mell.4873

[mortrialus.3062]

If you're going to try and manufacture consent, at least buy some alt accounts to post on as well so it's not this exact same account every time. 

[Mell.4873]

15 minutes ago, mortrialus.3062 said:

If you're going to try and manufacture consent, at least buy some alt accounts to post on as well so it's not this exact same account every time. 

What are you implying?

I'm not bring consent(consensus?) I'm bring hard evidence that all the doom and gloom is misplaced.
Mesmer is fine, Virtuoso is fine, 5 man boons are fine, Everything has its place.

I mean I like Mesmer so much I have hard time playing anything since I miss my favorite class.

Edited March 9, 2022 by Mell.4873

[Levetty.1279]

Counter point.

This thread is paid content. If you don't want to buy EoD then don't.

[Junkpile.7439]

Well core is only spec that mesmer need so all expansions have been total waste of money anyways so why not waste more money?

[Mell.4873]

1 hour ago, Levetty.1279 said:

Counter point.

This thread is paid content. If you don't want to buy EoD then don't.

There are posts that claim that they looked on the forum for how good Virtuoso is and then when they see the negativity they dont buy EoD so I'm countering that narrative.

[Urphen.2857]

3 hours ago, Mell.4873 said:

There are posts that claim that they looked on the forum for how good Virtuoso is and then when they see the negativity they dont buy EoD so I'm countering that narrative.

Where are these posts? I saw only one that said from the beginning that he don't buy it because he dislike virtu, stop spread false information.

Stop changing your mind every topic, one time virtu is fine, one time it has problems and its only good for certain things.

Seems hard for you to understand what people say, literally no one has a kitten problem that Virtuoso has no clones, only point where clones came up is that blade's are inferior to clones but this doesn't mean people dislike a cloneless spec it only means the way they made it wasn't the best way.

How often do others needs to tell you that dps isn't the problem numbers can change.

Your posted vids bring nothing to the table I can make one where I show only the good fights even if it is only 1 per 10 fights and let a class looking good and strong.

Maybe you try first to understand what problem others have with the spec...

[Salt Mode.3780]

I really do want to see the numbers in higher gameplay for Virtuoso. When I mean higher gameplay I mean the consistancy it brings in Raids and fractals, or in a PvP setting of plat and higher, WvW truth be told the virtuosos I meet and kill either switch back to mirage or just never showed up again so hopefully someone is proving me wrong because I've used Virtuoso tried it for hours and I don't see why I would choose this over Mirage when I can range without being projectile denied, like GS ambush is just better in everyway. It basically gives you perma 20+ might as well as reapplying vuln to the enemy. 

 

There is a difference between enjoying the class for aesthetics vs functionality. In terms of functionality I just dont see it. You can make anything work in open world so that is not even a benchmark or to start a sentence with.

 

For those arguing about negativity I honestly dont see what "positivity" can bring any hopeful changes to Virtuoso. The reason why from the first beta till release that Virtuoso was practically not changed at all was because of the "positivity" from reddit. There is a clear line of constructive positivity vs delusional positivity. IF you are playing Virtuoso and you do like it, then what is the problem with people who main Mesmer "complain" for changes, essentially its not going to change how its going to play but in fact improve it more. That of course those who genuinely don't like mesmers are coming here putting false positivity in hoping there will be no changes. I just dont understand this mentality. 

[Nezekan.2671]

Core Mesmer is also fine, so why do you need Virtuoso? Being "fine" is not a good reason.

It's barebones, uninspired and dysfunctional. Anything Virtuoso brings to the table, other mesmer builds and classes outperform it completely.

[Mell.4873]

16 hours ago, Urphen.2857 said:

Where are these posts? I saw only one that said from the beginning that he don't buy it because he dislike virtu, stop spread false information.

Stop changing your mind every topic, one time virtu is fine, one time it has problems and its only good for certain things.

Seems hard for you to understand what people say, literally no one has a kitten problem that Virtuoso has no clones, only point where clones came up is that blade's are inferior to clones but this doesn't mean people dislike a cloneless spec it only means the way they made it wasn't the best way.

How often do others needs to tell you that dps isn't the problem numbers can change.

Your posted vids bring nothing to the table I can make one where I show only the good fights even if it is only 1 per 10 fights and let a class looking good and strong.

Maybe you try first to understand what problem others have with the spec...

I believe there was 2 posts saying they won't buy EoD because of Virtuoso but anyway my point is it's not as negative or positive as you point out on my post history. 

Its just the same old mesmer with a new flair. I mean all the point about people not complaining about the cloneless part and dps is not true. I mean even you don't like the blades, what else can a cloneless spec have, no shatters? 

Edited March 10, 2022 by Mell.4873

[Mell.4873]

5 hours ago, Salt Mode.3780 said:

For those arguing about negativity I honestly dont see what "positivity" can bring any hopeful changes to Virtuoso. The reason why from the first beta till release that Virtuoso was practically not changed at all was because of the "positivity" from reddit. There is a clear line of constructive positivity vs delusional positivity. IF you are playing Virtuoso and you do like it, then what is the problem with people who main Mesmer "complain" for changes, essentially its not going to change how its going to play but in fact improve it more. That of course those who genuinely don't like mesmers are coming here putting false positivity in hoping there will be no changes. I just dont understand this mentality. 

Very, I guess I like to change people minds. Good response Salt 🙂

I guess I'm sucker for punishment since I try and stick up for the little guy, I'm mean I'm a bit of hypocrite since currently I'm playing Chronomancer untill the fix some of the traits for Virtuoso. 

Most I just feel like the complaining is overblown. 

[Mell.4873]

1 hour ago, Nezekan.2671 said:

Core Mesmer is also fine, so why do you need Virtuoso? Being "fine" is not a good reason.

It's barebones, uninspired and dysfunctional. Anything Virtuoso brings to the table, other mesmer builds and classes outperform it completely.

Well my point is they don't outperform Virtuoso. They are equivalent or worse in some cases. 

[Urphen.2857]

1 hour ago, Mell.4873 said:

I believe there was 2 posts saying they won't buy EoD because of Virtuoso but anyway my point is it's not as negative or positive as you point out on post history. 

Its just the same old mesmer with a new flair. I mean all the point about people not complaining about the cloneless part and dps is not true. I mean even you don't like the blades, what else can a cloneless spec have, no shatters? 

I don't like the blade's? Never said that but nice that you are putting words in my mouth.

That's what I meant when I say you should try to understand what people are saying.

 

But again for you in the most simple way I can explain:

My problem is that we got exactly the same gameplay like before only thing changed is the name and the animation from the shatters, I was one of them wanting a cloneless spec because of WvW since clones are useless in zero fights, anet took away something useless and trolled us by giving us projectiles that can be reflected so yeah nice joke.

I don't have a problem with blade's if they implemented them differently, as someone in the forum said they could make shatters stances or something else I don't know there where so many great ideas and we got shatters that are projectiles and do the exact same thing like core chrono and mirage.

We have only 1 spec that changes the gameplay and this is mirage but not because our class mechanic changed like on others Specs it's only thanks to ambushes what in wvw got nerfed because they aren't able to balance it probably.

 

And here we are again, a cloneless spec was asked mainly because of WvW, the crowd there wanted a spec with NO useless resources and something with more aoe to find a Meta place in zergs.

People don't complain because clones are gone people complain because they changed a useless resources for another.

 

So before someone comes with more bs here that I saw in the last days:

The wish for a cloneless spec was mainly from the WvW side the wish for more aoe too.

The wish for power dps spec from pve (Raid/fractals) since chrono get hit every time when they nerf something and in fractals it wasn't useless but there were always better alternatives.

I play virtu in Raids the dps ist similar to chrono but I don't rely on slow so for raiding It isn't bad but this doesn't change the fact that it's plain boring because it feels like chrono, there are other things too but I don't like to repeat all things I wrote down during beta and so on.

[Nezekan.2671]

2 hours ago, Mell.4873 said:

Well my point is they don't outperform Virtuoso. They are equivalent or worse in some cases. 

They do. Power Chrono is as good as power Virtuoso, But Chrono can do a lot of other things.

[Mell.4873]

7 hours ago, Nezekan.2671 said:

They do. Power Chrono is as good as power Virtuoso, But Chrono can do a lot of other things.

Exactly my point?

I mean I only play Chronomancer in the open world but you do agree the damage is similar so meh what are we arguing about?

Edited March 10, 2022 by Mell.4873

[Salt Mode.3780]

4 minutes ago, Mell.4873 said:

Exactly my point?

I mean I only play Chronomancer in the open world but you do agree the damage is similar so meh what are we arguing about?

The argument is that you are trying to promote as if Virtuoso can stand on par with Chrono or Mirage when clearly even yourself are playing Chrono. 

Like I said on my previous post, positivity isn't always a good thing, I wouldn't mind positive post on the first beta, this is launch and MANY things that players had given feedbacks on the FIRST BETA were not touched and ignored. You wonder why there is soo many backlash and "negative" comments because people go out of their way to find issues with the class. Betas are essentially having the player base do the dev's job for them, we did it and they did nothing with the data shown.

[Mell.4873]

8 hours ago, Urphen.2857 said:

I don't like the blade's? Never said that but nice that you are putting words in my mouth.

That's what I meant when I say you should try to understand what people are saying.

 

But again for you in the most simple way I can explain:

My problem is that we got exactly the same gameplay like before only thing changed is the name and the animation from the shatters, I was one of them wanting a cloneless spec because of WvW since clones are useless in zero fights, anet took away something useless and trolled us by giving us projectiles that can be reflected so yeah nice joke.

I don't have a problem with blade's if they implemented them differently, as someone in the forum said they could make shatters stances or something else I don't know there where so many great ideas and we got shatters that are projectiles and do the exact same thing like core chrono and mirage.

We have only 1 spec that changes the gameplay and this is mirage but not because our class mechanic changed like on others Specs it's only thanks to ambushes what in wvw got nerfed because they aren't able to balance it probably.

 

And here we are again, a cloneless spec was asked mainly because of WvW, the crowd there wanted a spec with NO useless resources and something with more aoe to find a Meta place in zergs.

People don't complain because clones are gone people complain because they changed a useless resources for another.

 

So before someone comes with more bs here that I saw in the last days:

The wish for a cloneless spec was mainly from the WvW side the wish for more aoe too.

The wish for power dps spec from pve (Raid/fractals) since chrono get hit every time when they nerf something and in fractals it wasn't useless but there were always better alternatives.

I play virtu in Raids the dps ist similar to chrono but I don't rely on slow so for raiding It isn't bad but this doesn't change the fact that it's plain boring because it feels like chrono, there are other things too but I don't like to repeat all things I wrote down during beta and so on.

Sorry you did say it was the other forum posts that don't like blades, my mistake.

All the other stuff in you post makes no sense since Virtuoso is trying to do exactly what you describe. I mean all the utility skills are AOEs, what more could ask for? If they balance and fix the trait bugs Virtuoso will be amazing in WvW.

I guess Virtuoso is boring in raids but so is Chronomancer, all you do is spam phantasms off cooldown. I mean I don't play raids with a complex rotation, I play my role and try be as good as I can at it. Normally that means, simple = short rotations.

[Salt Mode.3780]

1 minute ago, Mell.4873 said:

Sorry you did say it was the other forum posts that don't like blades, my mistake.

All the other stuff in you post makes no sense since Virtuoso is trying to do exactly what you describe. I mean all the utility skills are AOEs, what more could ask for? If they balance and fix the trait bugs Virtuoso will be amazing in WvW.

I guess Virtuoso is boring in raids but so is Chronomancer, all you do is spam phantasms off cooldown. I mean I don't play raids with a complex rotation, I play my role and try be as good as I can at it. Normally that means, simple = short rotations.

I hope you realize that Virtuoso's main damage comes from spamming phantasms off cooldown which is the exact same play as Chrono. In fact if you look at many of these benchmark maker's video, both Chrono and Virtuoso uses the same utilities, its essentially the same thing just one offers more....

[Mell.4873]

1 minute ago, Salt Mode.3780 said:

The argument is that you are trying to promote as if Virtuoso can stand on par with Chrono or Mirage when clearly even yourself are playing Chrono. 

Like I said on my previous post, positivity isn't always a good thing, I wouldn't mind positive post on the first beta, this is launch and MANY things that players had given feedbacks on the FIRST BETA were not touched and ignored. You wonder why there is soo many backlash and "negative" comments because people go out of their way to find issues with the class. Betas are essentially having the player base do the dev's job for them, we did it and they did nothing with the data shown.

I mean I'm all up for more boon, a good suggestion I saw was to apply all the phantasm buffs to the Virtuoso as well to compensate for the lack of clones. This would help a lot with the boon issue, which isn't really and issue in group content.

The negativity as I have pointed out is blown out of proportion since this iteration of the Mesmer is exactly the same in almost every game mode.

[Mell.4873]

1 minute ago, Salt Mode.3780 said:

I hope you realize that Virtuoso's main damage comes from spamming phantasms off cooldown which is the exact same play as Chrono. In fact if you look at many of these benchmark maker's video, both Chrono and Virtuoso uses the same utilities, its essentially the same thing just one offers more....

But they have a better shatter and a really good damage trait the benefit from phantasms so of coarse it will be the same?

[Salt Mode.3780]

Just now, Mell.4873 said:

I mean I'm all up for more boon, a good suggestion I saw was to apply all the phantasm buffs to the Virtuoso as well to compensate for the lack of clones. This would help a lot with the boon issue, which isn't really and issue in group content.

The negativity as I have pointed out is blown out of proportion since this iteration of the Mesmer is exactly the same in almost every game mode.

Negativity is only blown out of proportion because this isn't beta anymore this is launch, many of the issues from first beta still persist till now and nothing was done to change or fixed. Second the fact that you said "iteration of Mesmer is exactly the same in almost every game mode" lies another problem with how lackluster and lazy the traits are made to a point where Virtuosos are streamlined to play the same in ALL game modes even tho that is not intended.

[Salt Mode.3780]

1 minute ago, Mell.4873 said:

But they have a better shatter and a really good damage trait the benefit from phantasms so of coarse it will be the same?

So thats why people are pissed, why would I bring Virtuoso when chrono does the same thing but offers more....?

Virtuoso brings nothing new to the table and plays the same thing but offer less. Even if its suppose to be a selfish dps class its not even doing a fantastic job at it.

[Mell.4873]

14 minutes ago, Salt Mode.3780 said:

So thats why people are pissed, why would I bring Virtuoso when chrono does the same thing but offers more....?

Virtuoso brings nothing new to the table and plays the same thing but offer less. Even if its suppose to be a selfish dps class its not even doing a fantastic job at it.

We are going in circles

1: Virtuoso has the same damage as Chronomancer but has a much simpler rotation and does not need Slow uptime which Chronomancer can not maintain itself Snowcrow "This build assumes permanent Slow uptime. The lower the uptime, the weaker this build will perform."

2: Chronomancer boons are selfish Snowcrow "provides high uptimes of personal Might, Fury and Alacrity"

3: Its all the same, same damage, same class, same mechanics, same same same.

This is my point........

Edited March 10, 2022 by Mell.4873

[Salt Mode.3780]

1 minute ago, Mell.4873 said:

We are going in circles

1: Virtuoso has the same damage Chronomancer but has a much simpler rotation and does not need Slow uptime which Chronomancer can not maintain itself Snowcrow "This build assumes permanent Slow uptime. The lower the uptime, the weaker this build will perform."

2: Chronomancer boon are selfish Snowcrow "provides high uptimes of personal Might, Fury and Alacrity"

3: Its all the same, same damage, same class, same mechanics, same same same.

This is my point........

Ok so fact that you repeated yourself yet you are boasting how amazing Virtuoso is, it is an obvious lie. Virtuoso by no means is amazing, it is very lackluster and for the mesmer mains out there that has been on this job since the game release, and those who including me asked for a cloneless spec since the launch of the game finally sees something after YEARS of waiting to see something that is a knockoff of core and chrono you wonder why there are so many negative comments.

The only reason why Chrono boons are "selfish" is because they continue to nerf chronos to that state while giving every other class the ability to do it's job better.

I have nothing wrong Virtuoso being cloneless nor does many of the people who complained about it does. What they are complaining is how half baked the spec is and why so many of the issues from FIRST BETA was not addressed. This is launch not play catch up. This isn't Beta 2.0. As far as people defending ANET saying that they were doing changes in the summer. Let me ask you this, what was done from first beta till launch? Why is it that knowing there are SO many issues that they do not extend the release date? It is not the first time a game has extended the launch date FFXIV being one of the biggest offenders especially when it was so hyped up, people took days off for those specific launch weeks only to get disappointed. 

[Veprovina.4876]

21 minutes ago, Salt Mode.3780 said:

The only reason why Chrono boons are "selfish" is because they continue to nerf chronos to that state while giving every other class the ability to do it's job better.

 

Just... Quoted for truth!

Everyone else gets to have better boon share than chrono, but when Chrono does it it's suddenly OP and uncalled for.