I feel excluded from EoD because Soo Won meta event is too hard

[Gorem.8104]

17 hours ago, Healix.5819 said:

Imagine if it was instanced like Dragonstorm. Public would have a ~15% success rate and private would be complaining about having half the number of people. Participation would likely be a fraction of what it is. As is, people are treating this meta as "private" (majority of the map is filled via LFG), which at least allows some "public" players (people who enter the map naturally) to participate. I'm guessing that was the goal - they want open world players to form groups (which happened back in the Tequatl days) in hopes they start doing other content, specifically strikes.

You mean Marionette, right? Cause I've literally never seen a DS fail, and have never seen ANYONE tell someone to leave or pay them to leave DS, DS Private can even be solo'd by the correct specs. I've seen people afk through 100's of DS's and no one cares in game. Only people that cared and got that changed were the vocal minority complaining as they do. As they are doing now with DE, causing a stain on the game to stay a stain. Hardstuck for example, to show they cared about the game and didn't want it to die and actually cared about other players, should have boycotted the zone and tried to prevent anyone completing it. 

It should have been instanced, and it should have been put on the portal device and it should have been changed to be like DS and have the time/balance that people DOING THE MECHANICS always succeed. That has always been the issue here, even if you 100% Complete the fights mechanics, you still lose. It is 100% a dps race. It is raid content forced onto the lowest common denominator, casuals who play maybe for 10minutes a week. You think they doing DE? hahaha. 

DE is, and was, one of the worst idea's Anet has had, the "ten year event" celebration that the majority hate and have already either left or will never, ever set foot on Cantha again. 

Edited May 24, 2022 by Gorem.8104

[Custodio.6134]

Ah yes, the basic complaint from a player, that wants everything for free. 

Yes, the DE meta has higher requirements to the players. BUT: these are not that extreme, especially as it has been nerfed into the ground already. 

 

What are the requirements? 

Very basic organization (due to the 3-lane system of the meta) 

Basic group setups (1quickness- and 1 alacrity-provider, 3 DPS) 

At least average dps (~6k, as shown before, which is not hard to achieve, since some builds are capable of doing that with a single button rotation) 

Following the mechanics of the event. 

 

That's it. It is easy as that. 

If you're not familiar with the mechanics, we'll, unfortunate, but you can learn that. 

But as in every game, you need to actually do a certain amount in order to get a reward for it. 

 

The difference, that has been pointed out a lot of times already is, the decision to either do so, or not to do so. The person complaining made very clear to not be willing to invest an even basic amiunt of effort. Why should someone with this mindset be rewarded? 

 

I cannot go to work, without doing anything and expect to get paid. If you do that irl, you will get fired pretty quick. 

 

Also, the meta already got nerfed very hard. On release, even organized squads struggled to clear that. If this was still the case, I would agree. However, this isn't the case anymore. 

Why do people expect to achieve anything, without doing any work for it? All the time those use to complain would be better used in looking up builds and learning them and looking up info on how to beat the meta. But you choose to completely ignore everything the game and players provide to you instead. 

 

Hars opinion: if you don't want to do even basic work, you have no right to complain at all. 

[The Boz.2038]

57 minutes ago, Gorem.8104 said:

It is 100% a dps race

Of under 6k DPS.
 

[Vayne.8563]

6 minutes ago, Custodio.6134 said:

Ah yes, the basic complaint from a player, that wants everything for free. 

Yes, the DE meta has higher requirements to the players. BUT: these are not that extreme, especially as it has been nerfed into the ground already. 

 

What are the requirements? 

Very basic organization (due to the 3-lane system of the meta) 

Basic group setups (1quickness- and 1 alacrity-provider, 3 DPS) 

At least average dps (~6k, as shown before, which is not hard to achieve, since some builds are capable of doing that with a single button rotation) 

Following the mechanics of the event. 

 

That's it. It is easy as that. 

If you're not familiar with the mechanics, we'll, unfortunate, but you can learn that. 

But as in every game, you need to actually do a certain amount in order to get a reward for it. 

 

The difference, that has been pointed out a lot of times already is, the decision to either do so, or not to do so. The person complaining made very clear to not be willing to invest an even basic amiunt of effort. Why should someone with this mindset be rewarded? 

 

I cannot go to work, without doing anything and expect to get paid. If you do that irl, you will get fired pretty quick. 

 

Also, the meta already got nerfed very hard. On release, even organized squads struggled to clear that. If this was still the case, I would agree. However, this isn't the case anymore. 

Why do people expect to achieve anything, without doing any work for it? All the time those use to complain would be better used in looking up builds and learning them and looking up info on how to beat the meta. But you choose to completely ignore everything the game and players provide to you instead. 

 

Hars opinion: if you don't want to do even basic work, you have no right to complain at all. 

What a strawman argument. If you don't want to do the work you don't deserve the reward.

See, I've done the work and gotten the reward many many times. But I'm also empathic to people who don't play games TO work. In your mind this is okay because it's okay to you.  It's also a change from the game standard of what a meta is. No meta in the game is both that difficult and that time consuming. Dragonstand and Drizzlewood are long betas, but not that hard. Triple Trouble is hard but not that time consuming.

 

At the end of the day, people have a right to dislike areas of the game and ask for those areas of the game to change. The hard core crowd asks for harder content, and I bet you don't go into those threads and complain that people should just accept the game the way it is. But that's the argument you're making here, that people who are unhappy should accept the game the way it is.

As an example I bought a game without raids that said there's no need for a dedicated healer or tank. You can bring any five guys into a dungeon and it would work and that was true. Maybe not optimal but true.

It's not the same now, the game has changed and it changed in a way I don't like it so I say something. But that doesn't mean I want everything free. It means I want to have fun playing the game I bought.  If I wanted a hard time I'd remarry my ex-wife.

 

The point is just because someone doesn't like the game you like, it doesn't mean they want everything for nothing. That's just what harder core players say when they want to dismiss what someone else likes and wants and it makes the  harder core crowd seem both out of touch and unsympathetic. It doesn't help any  of your arguments, because it's flawed on it's most basic level.

It's flawed because games don't need to be work and not everyone wants to work, and it's flawed because people who are willing to spend long hours doing stuff are not getting anything for nothing. They simply want the game to be different. And they have as much right to ask for it as hard core players have when they ask for harder content.

[The Boz.2038]

11 minutes ago, Vayne.8563 said:

It's not the same now, the game has changed and it changed in a way I don't like it so I say something.

It hasn't changed. You can still take any 5 people with no healers or tanks into a dungeon, and win.
 

[Luci.7018]

10 hours ago, The Boz.2038 said:

It hasn't changed. You can still take any 5 people with no healers or tanks into a dungeon, and win.
 

So there is no need for the 6k damage requirements then .

We can have a boss with lower hp(needing less damage) , but has more  fun or 1-shot mechanics implanted from Strikes

(just like in CM strikes you cannot "bypass" the mechanics by doing more dps)

Edited May 24, 2022 by Luci.7018

[Vayne.8563]

41 minutes ago, The Boz.2038 said:

It hasn't changed. You can still take any 5 people with no healers or tanks into a dungeon, and win.
 

But raids has changed what was promised at launch, even if you don't think they  did. They added content that changed a basic tenet of the game.  They said there would be no dedicated healers and poof, now they're necessary and that's a change.

[The Boz.2038]

4 minutes ago, Luci.7018 said:

So there is no need for the 6k damage requirements then .

We can have a boss with lower hp(needing less damage) , but has more  fun or 1-shot mechanics

Please elaborate. How does that follow? Soo Won isn't a dungeon. 

[The Boz.2038]

4 minutes ago, Vayne.8563 said:

But raids has changed what was promised at launch, even if you don't think they  did. They added content that changed a basic tenet of the game.  They said there would be no dedicated healers and poof, now they're necessary and that's a change.

Raids is new content. It wasn't here at launch.
Dungeons were here. You can still access them.
Added content != changed content. 

[Luci.7018]

10 hours ago, The Boz.2038 said:

Please elaborate. How does that follow? Soo Won isn't a dungeon. 

Didn't  you say to Vayne that nothing changed ?

Does dungeons need 6k dps ?

[The Boz.2038]

Just now, Luci.7018 said:

Didn't  you say to Vayne that nothing changed ?

Does dungeons need 6k dps ?

I didn't say "nothing in the universe of existence has changed". 
Please, reading comprehension. Follow the dialogue.

I said that the sentence "you can take 5 people into a dungeon, no need for healers or tanks, and win" still holds true. You can take five people into a dungeon, all in OW builds, and win. There isn't even a DPS check anywhere over, like, 2k, or something.

[yoni.7015]

17 minutes ago, Vayne.8563 said:

But raids has changed what was promised at launch, even if you don't think they  did. They added content that changed a basic tenet of the game.  They said there would be no dedicated healers and poof, now they're necessary and that's a change.

So there should never be any change, everything should always stay the same? How boring. 
And you complain now, after I don’t know seven years, that there are raids and some classes have a dedicated support specs? 

Edited May 24, 2022 by yoni.7015

[Luci.7018]

10 hours ago, The Boz.2038 said:

I didn't say "nothing in the universe of existence has changed". 
Please, reading comprehension. Follow the dialogue.

I said that the sentence "you can take 5 people into a dungeon, no need for healers or tanks, and win" still holds true. You can take five people into a dungeon, all in OW builds, and win. There isn't even a DPS check anywhere over, like, 2k, or something.

Vayne was arguing with Custodio, that needing 6k dps is a thing that normaly people weres not forced , and you replied with "It hasn't changed. You can still take any 5 people with no healers or tanks into a dungeon, and win."

 

From out of context , you argued about a different thing

Edited May 24, 2022 by Luci.7018

[Luci.7018]

10 hours ago, The Boz.2038 said:

What? 
No. I even quoted to what I was responding. 
What's with the gaslighting these days?

https://imgur.com/a/AcXAlka

He was responding to Custodio about the 6k dps and and he post saying that Raids dont need deticated healers , but somehow now you need 6k dps to progress to the EoD meta

Edited May 24, 2022 by Luci.7018

[Vayne.8563]

26 minutes ago, The Boz.2038 said:

Raids is new content. It wasn't here at launch.
Dungeons were here. You can still access them.
Added content != changed content. 

 The GAME as a WHOLE was advertised as not needing a dedicated healer and now we do. It's not rocket science. They added to the game that fundamentally changed the game since NO CONTENT needed a dedicated healer at launch.

If the best argument you have is taking stuff out of context, it's not much of an argument.

[Vayne.8563]

23 minutes ago, yoni.7015 said:

So there should never be any change, everything should always stay the same? How boring. 
And you complain now, after I don’t know seven years, that there are raids and some classes have a dedicated support specs? 

You and your strawmen arguments. Quote me where I said there should never be any change? I'll wait here.

It's very simple.  If you buy a game, and you don't like the direction in which it changes you have a right to complain about it. That's it.  It's simple.

No one ever said that games should never change. But games can change for the better and games can change for the worse. And people have a right to express their like or dislike of specific changes, even if those people happen to disagree with your opinion.

Edit: To be clear I wasn't complaining about raids at this point, I was using that as an example. Some people need examples, because they obviously aren't understanding the actual text of in the first place.

Edited May 24, 2022 by Vayne.8563

[yoni.7015]

2 minutes ago, Vayne.8563 said:

 The GAME as a WHOLE was advertised as not needing a dedicated healer and now we do. It's not rocket science. They added to the game that fundamentally changed the game since NO CONTENT needed a dedicated healer at launch.

If the best argument you have is taking stuff out of context, it's not much of an argument.

A dedicated healer is actually only needed in raids. You don’t need a healer in most of the content. 

[Vayne.8563]

Just now, yoni.7015 said:

A dedicated healer is actually only needed in raids. You don’t need a healer in most of the content. 

Nothing to do with what I said, but thanks for pointing that out.

[The Boz.2038]

5 minutes ago, Vayne.8563 said:

The GAME as a WHOLE

You can still play that game. 
It's called core Tyria. Have fun with core classes in core dungeons. Never need a healer. Or a tank.

[yoni.7015]

4 minutes ago, Vayne.8563 said:

Nothing to do with what I said, but thanks for pointing that out.

Didn’t you write that now we need a dedicated healer? Do we really? Where? The only aspect of the game where a healer is needed are raids. 

Edited May 24, 2022 by yoni.7015

[The Boz.2038]

8 minutes ago, Luci.7018 said:

https://imgur.com/a/AcXAlka

He was responding to Custodio about the 6k dps and gave he dungeons as an example

Hey, did you know the game released WITH NO BREAKBARS!?
Shocking, innit? Why are they here? They should obviously be removed.
/s

[Luci.7018]

10 hours ago, The Boz.2038 said:

Hey, did you know the game released WITH NO BREAKBARS!?
Shocking, innit? Why are they here? They should obviously be removed.
/s

Hmmm , they wasted money creating that one CC-Heart in EoD that to taught people .

Needing 6k dps  is a wastefull mechanic , and better focus on fun/1 shot  mechanics from now on .

Ofc , Soon Won should stay the same for people that enjoy it , just like Marionete and Ire

 

Edited May 24, 2022 by Luci.7018

[Vayne.8563]

9 minutes ago, The Boz.2038 said:

Hey, did you know the game released WITH NO BREAKBARS!?
Shocking, innit? Why are they here? They should obviously be removed.
/s

See this is where your argument fails.

If someone doesn't like break bars they have the right to complain about it. I do like break bars and so I have no reason to complain about it. It really is that simple. You personally not agreeing with something isn't enough reason for someone not to complain about something they feel is wrong with the game.  Or do you disagree with that?

[Vayne.8563]

10 minutes ago, yoni.7015 said:

Didn’t you write that now we need a dedicated healer? Do we really? Where? The only aspect of the game where a healer is needed are raids. 

Sure and it was the introduction of raids that changed the game. You know, the only PvE way to get legendary armor.  So they fundamentally changed a game I bought, locked a reward I might have wanted behind it, and I have a right to say so.

People have the right to complain about stuff they don't like in the game. I'm not sure why this threatens you so much.0

[Vayne.8563]

15 minutes ago, yoni.7015 said:

Sure you can complain all day long. That’s what you already do. It’s just funny that you complain about stuff that happened years ago. You are a bit late to the party. 
Tomorrow you’ll complain about fractals? 

I was furnishing on obvious example, because it's clear you're not understanding what I'm saying. But now you're simply trolling, so I'm again, going to stop responding to you. Have a great night.