Idea of Infinite Forge rework

[agrippastrilemma.8741]

1. Virtuoso is a spec that relies heavily on traits - specifically, because the clone cap is increased to 5, the weapon skills are not enough on their own to generate enough blades, hence why we have three incredibly strong grandmaster traits to make up for this. But for me this makes the class less interactive and satisfying because it lessens the impact for your active weapon skills in favor of your passive traits (particularly on Infinite Forge and Psychic Riposte).

2. As you probably know, Psychic Riposte is generally considered optimal in PvP and Bloodsong is the meta in PvE, while Infinite Forge has mostly been overshadowed.

With these points in mind, this is the idea I had for an Infinite Forge rework that puts the power and interactivity into the player's hands: "Stock an additional Blade whenever you use a skill that stocks Blades."

So for example: Mirror Blade, Bladecall, Blade Leap and Phase Retreat would stock two Blades total, Mirror Images would stock three Blades total, Phantasmal duelist would stock two Blades total.

What do you think? Fun concept? Too weak, too strong, etc.

Edited April 10, 2022 by agrippastrilemma.8741

[Xaylin.1860]

3 minutes ago, agrippastrilemma.8741 said:

But for me this makes the class less interactive and satisfying because it lessens the impact for your active weapon skills in favor of your passive traits (particularly on Infinite Forge and Psychic Riposte).

Imho, Psychic Riposte is the most active and also alters gameplay the most. Bloodsong is less efficient for the latter but at least requires you to intentionally pick certain skills to work.

 

6 minutes ago, agrippastrilemma.8741 said:

2. As you probably know, Psychic Riposte is generally considered optimal in PvP and Bloodsong is the meta in PvE, while Infinite Forge has mostly been overshadowed.

As it should because it is the most passive. But yeah, it probably should be reworked. 

 

6 minutes ago, agrippastrilemma.8741 said:

3. There is currently no trait that improves Psionic skills, which many people have been requesting.

Wrong. ANet covered this with "on blade" effects which also affects Dagger. This might not be the most common trait set up but ANet has done this before. The sad part is that it mostly caters condition builds.

 

8 minutes ago, agrippastrilemma.8741 said:

Stock an additional Blade whenever you use a skill that stocks Blades. Psionic skills stock a Blade on use".

This would literally double blade generation from everything aside from multi-blade hits with Bloodsong and Jagged Mind. While it is more active than the current trait it probably is too strong considering how easy it is to achieve and most certainly hard to balance unless you cripple it with an ICD.

 

I would prefer something like recovering Blades from using Bladesongs to cater offensive builds (think Burst Mastery) with maybe some other secondary benefit (e.g. some mobility or Might when shattering a full stack or whatever).

[HotDelirium.7984]

Each trait line seems to have a theme like 1-aegis and blocks, 2- strike damage, 3-bleeding condi. I think if you are to change infinite forge maybe add a passive bonus per currently held blade or some effect to psychic skills.

Edited April 9, 2022 by HotDelirium.7984

[agrippastrilemma.8741]

30 minutes ago, Xaylin.1860 said:

Imho, Psychic Riposte is the most active and also alters gameplay the most. Bloodsong is less efficient for the latter but at least requires you to intentionally pick certain skills to work.

 

As it should because it is the most passive. But yeah, it probably should be reworked. 

Yeah I think I mostly agree here.

Quote

Wrong. ANet covered this with "on blade" effects which also affects Dagger. This might not be the most common trait set up but ANet has done this before. The sad part is that it mostly caters condition builds.

There are traits that affect Blade skill types yes, which includes Dagger, Greatsword, Bladesongs and 5/6 Psionics (not Blade Renewal).

Quote

This would literally double blade generation from everything aside from multi-blade hits with Bloodsong and Jagged Mind. While it is more active than the current trait it probably is too strong considering how easy it is to achieve and most certainly hard to balance unless you cripple it with an ICD.

Although it is hard to say, I actually suspect it would still be less blade generation than Bloodsong for PvE and Psychic Riposte for PvP. Remember, you can dodge the likes of Mirror Blade and Blade Leap or Psionic skills and thus deny Blade generation, which you can't with the trait procs. This is also why I like the concept, because it means that hitting and avoiding skills has more impact which is more fun and interactive. And for PvE, I doubt it would surpass the blade generation you can get from Dagger bleed spam (but if it did for power builds, that would be good because that would mean you could play something other than just Bloodsong in PvE). Remember, Bladecall has 6 hits so with 100% crit chance you are already generating two Blades from it, and that's not even mentioning Unstable Bladestorm and Flying Cutter.

Edited April 9, 2022 by agrippastrilemma.8741

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

I use IF, reason being PR is useless if you're not targeted and this happens in small skirmishes. That being said I like the idea and I don't think it would be too strong considering the weapon skills CDs. In fact it might generate blades a bit slower than the current version of IF in the long run. 

Edited April 9, 2022 by Lincolnbeard.1735

[mortrialus.3062]

It's a little too similar to Mirage's Self Deception, imo.

I would like to see a psionics trait tho. Maybe something like

"The Superior Mind

Psionics now inflict Chill on enemies and grant swiftness and gain reduced cooldowns"

which would help Virtuoso maintain range on enemies which is one of the things the spec really lacks.  Maybe replace Mental Focus with it, tweak a few numbers to maintain power virtuoso's dps numbers

Infinite Forge could be something like "Damage is increased by 20% against foes under 50% health.  Phantasms stock an extra blade."

Edited April 10, 2022 by mortrialus.3062

[Mell.4873]

Yeah a buff to blade generation would be nice, I don't think it should be tied psionic skills since it would prevent any healing build. 

Just make if infinite forge stock at 2 second intervals, that would be fine along with letting Bladesongs be castable with no target like some people have suggested.

To further my point, the big advantage a power healer would have over a condi one would be passive healing from not needing a target 

Edited April 10, 2022 by Mell.4873

[agrippastrilemma.8741]

10 hours ago, mortrialus.3062 said:

It's a little too similar to Mirage's Self Deception, imo.

I would like to see a psionics trait tho. Maybe something like

"The Superior Mind

Psionics now inflict Chill on enemies and grant swiftness and gain reduced cooldowns"

which would help Virtuoso maintain range on enemies which is one of the things the spec really lacks.  Maybe replace Mental Focus with it, tweak a few numbers to maintain power virtuoso's dps numbers

Infinite Forge could be something like "Damage is increased by 20% against foes under 50% health.  Phantasms stock an extra blade."

Honestly, Ill edit the OP and remove the Psionic part because that wasn't the central thesis of my idea but seems to be all people are focusing on.

Edited April 10, 2022 by agrippastrilemma.8741

[agrippastrilemma.8741]

9 hours ago, Mell.4873 said:

Yeah a buff to blade generation would be nice, I don't think it should be tied psionic skills since it would prevent any healing build. 

Just make if infinite forge stock to 5 blades, that would be fine along with letting Bladesongs be castable with no target like some people have suggested.

To further my point, the big advantage a power healer would have over a condi one would be passive healing from not needing a target 

What do you mean, Infinite Forge already stacks to 5 blades.

[katte nici.9483]

IF isn't that bad and depending on what your opponent is doing is possibly superior to PR. If you rely on PR for blades a smart enemy can reduce your blade generation by what feels like 90%. IF has enough blade generation to pretty much keep your shatters on cooldown, unless you are running Illusions traitline which is the only time PR outshines it.

[Mell.4873]

6 hours ago, agrippastrilemma.8741 said:

What do you mean, Infinite Forge already stacks to 5 blades.

Sorry I read the skill wrong and remembered how the trait was in beta, what I ment to say was lower the blade stock interval. 

Edited April 10, 2022 by Mell.4873