Willbender nerfs

[WillPaharu.4837]

I hear ppl complaining about Willbender. What nerfs do you think needs to happen?

[lysico.1297]

They will get increased time on the f1 -3 skills mostly.   

[Boo.2580]

Remove dodge from f2 OR remove stability from F3 OR increase cool downs on f1-f3 OR make f1-f3 not work with the elite that refreshes virtues.

 

As it stands right now it has way too many escape options and defensive capabilities for the damage it does.

 

[Luna.6203]

Im surprised how people still talk about willbender even though there are stronger picks at least in spvp. I started spvp as willy and its good now no doubt about it. For damage and kills top stat yeah but really its not what carry groups towards win. Also players who know how to kite / avoid initial willbender burst its easy to kill them.. By playing it i learned how to avoid them and now for example with ranger its meme spec that cant even touch me. Problem is nooby people usually stand still in willbender flames and eat all damage. But sure nerf it whatever...

 

I think they reduce immobilize on advancing strike from 2s to 1s. And maybe lower damage coefficient on his key zerg abilities. so it wont be that bursty. But i doubt they increase cooldowns on virtues cuz willbender is all about them. And some of you remember where willbender was before patch where they reduce cooldowns on virtues.

[Myror.7521]

@WillPaharu.4837 I doubt a simply f3 maybe also f2 cooldown increase would be enough. I dont think willbender is op but its f1-3 skills are a bit too good so a CD increase would be pretty solid and fair

[dronte.3416]

Apart from the obvious damage nerfs it needs, I find it hilarious WBs are running around with 20-30 seconds of Resolution all the time. I know it only reduces part of the condi damage, but with all the cover buffs it's impossible to counterplay it at the moment. I am okay with close to 100% uptime when it's played right, but right now it's just completely dumb.

[bethekey.8314]

8 hours ago, Luna.6203 said:

I started spvp as willy and its good now no doubt about it. For damage and kills top stat yeah but really its not what carry groups towards win. Also players who know how to kite / avoid initial willbender burst its easy to kill them..

You see, scientists have discovered that when you play Willbender your brain suffers repeated micro-traumas from ego inflation. This lowers the player's IQ to the point of being unable to recognize their own gameplay and mental handicap. Unfortunately, it may be too late for you, as you seem to think kills don't matter toward winning and kiting Willbenders is possible.

Edited May 20, 2022 by bethekey.8314

[semak.7481]

1 hour ago, bethekey.8314 said:

You see, scientists have discovered that when you play Willbender your brain suffers repeated micro-traumas from ego inflation. This lowers the player's IQ to the point of being unable to recognize their own gameplay and mental handicap. Unfortunately, it may be too late for you, as you seem to think kills don't matter toward winning and kiting Willbenders is possible.

Lmao

 

[Luna.6203]

52 minutes ago, bethekey.8314 said:

You see, scientists have discovered that when you play Willbender your brain suffers repeated micro-traumas from ego inflation. This lowers the player's IQ to the point of being unable to recognize their own gameplay and mental handicap. Unfortunately, it may be too late for you, as you seem to think kills don't matter toward winning and kiting Willbenders is possible.

 

You know everytime i see article that starts with "scientists have discovered" without telling you which scientists. I already know its all s****d joke. Even though this is not an article, its ment to be joke and all you want to insult me but not directly so scientists said... It was first tought crossing my mind when i started read your comment and lets just say your comment fulfilled my expectation. I bet every player who main guardian at some point going to try willbender at pvp and your comment insult them all. Be careful there..

 

Anyway...

 

Your goal in spvp is to (mostly) hold points. With your team mates probably at middle and you can do so much better as support. Or duel for far/close point and there are still better duelist for that. Matching usually puts same class on opposing teams. Lets say one have core support guardian and other one willbender.. guess who most likely wins..

 

 

 

 

[Waffles.5632]

21 hours ago, WillPaharu.4837 said:

I hear ppl complaining about Willbender. What nerfs do you think needs to happen?

For me personally, I think it's their mobility combined with core guard mechanics and such. It's too much. They also have the benefit of better shadowsteps than previous iterations, as I believe willbender shadowsteps function a bit differently than thief or even mesmer. So they can be on top of you instantly, which isn't a major problem in itself,

- This can be -heavily- abused in 2v2 or 3v3 seasons as literally the .1 sec a match starts, on 1 or 2 maps a Willbender can instantly be on top of you. I don't think that's healthy, but I also realize 2v2 and 3v3 aren't necessarily supposed to be balanced anyways, but rather short fun distraction seasons from usual 5v5.

 

but they can also retreat just as well, if not better. Furthermore they can run invul from core guard. I do not know what utilities are usually run, but generally any class that can decide when to fight, immediately becomes a problem because it creates scenarios where they will gank you, and if it's in their favor they win, but if it is in your favor they just run away and come back later to try again. A super frustrating gameplay loop for both parties involved.

 

Finally, they have insane AOE pressure AND burst. In general they are just over tuned imo. So when you get two or more of them on an enemy team it's just like good like surviving that man. A lot of EoD specs seemed over tuned still imo, for pvp at least. From inflated skills that do power damage, apply condi's, give out boons, and are aoe it is just too much for the other specs to keep up with.

Willbender is a trifecta of what you want in a pvp class. You can decide where and when you fight, you can move around/through outnumbered fights, you have tools to survive flash encounters/enemy focus, and you can always just come back later to burst enemies down, your CD's will be up before theirs.

 

The final nail in the coffin. The CD's. My god is it me or does a willbender's CD's always feel up?? I have no numbers  atm to prove this however LOL

 

Sooo the nerfs would be to those areas, and slightly.

- Increase CD's so that Willbenders have to make the same choice as Mesmers with blink. Use it to engage, or disengage, it can't be used for both.

- Decrease mobility, make it so they don't go as far as they go now

- Decreased damage/hit their major burst rotation so they have to make harder choices like other classes in pvp.

 

Keep in mind this isn't me suggesting they hit all areas, rather, they focus on those areas and target some slightly and see how it works/unfolds. Balance is a process. I enjoy the fighting against it, it is just too much atm, especially when it's usually two or three willbenders per match now.

I also am happy that, at least to me, it seems the EoD specs brought in more pvpers.

 

Edit : The other option, is they could buff up other classes, but then it's like well, which classes do you buff and why, etc, and that just seems like a can of worms for this thread.

 

Edited May 20, 2022 by Waffles.5632

[bethekey.8314]

10 minutes ago, Luna.6203 said:

Your goal in spvp is to (mostly) hold points. With your team mates probably at middle and you can do so much better as support. Or duel for far/close point and there are still better duelist for that. Matching usually puts same class on opposing teams. Lets say one have core support guardian and other one willbender.. guess who most likely wins..

When you use one OP Guardian build to justify another OP Guardian build.

I agree, nerf Core Guardian and Willbender.

For the kids.

Edited May 20, 2022 by bethekey.8314

[Kuya.6495]

One of the things that should be nerfed, and it's one of the reasons people bring up why willbender is better than herald, is  the team boon support. Willbender with virtues, like any guard spec, can clear condis from allies and give allies stun break and stab using f2 and f3 thanks to the virtues traitline despite the specialization being designed as a selfish spec. Anet already showed they can modify core traits to work different depending on which elite specialization you are using (such as making battle presence give alacrity when phoenix protocol is used). They should make is so Absolute Resolve does not remove condis from allies and make Indomitable Courage not give stab and stunbreak to allies when using willbender as your elite specialization.  

 

Since people have also been complaining about damage, i think they should change lethal tempo back to 2% from 3% or maybe down to 1%. I'd keep the changes made to radiance since it's essentially carrying willbender and if nerfed would probably be the reason it becomes terrible again. Before they reduced cds on willbender you couldn't escape when focused in spvp and you couldn't catch up to targets because you couldn't chain your virtues enough, so i wouldn't revert that change either. The problem is that the cds on virtues were reduced for willbender but willbenders can reduce it even further by taking the virtues traitline (Power of the Virtuous). I would just make it so this trait gives less cd reduction to willbender vs other guard specs so it doesn't hit core guard, fb and dh. Maybe reduce it from 15% cd reduction for virtues to 5% for willbenders only. 

 

With those changes you might see willbenders switch to valor instead of virtues so they would still be deadly and capable of taking 1v1s but their overall damage and team support would be reduced and their cooldowns would be increased by virtue of them no longer taking virtues or virtues no longer giving 15% cd reduction anymore. 

Edited May 20, 2022 by Kuya.6495

[semak.7481]

They must whack it as if thats a cockroach like they did with other specs, nuke the core instead of WB, no splits, straight up nuking, which is good, tempest then could compete for the support role.

Edited May 20, 2022 by semak.7481

[JTGuevara.9018]

On 5/19/2022 at 6:20 PM, WillPaharu.4837 said:

I hear ppl complaining about Willbender. What nerfs do you think needs to happen?

MOBILITY. THIS is the big one.

It's ridiculous. As a warrior you literally CANNOT run away from them. I get that guardian needs mobility but come on...

[JTGuevara.9018]

7 hours ago, Luna.6203 said:

 

You know everytime i see article that starts with "scientists have discovered" without telling you which scientists. I already know its all s****d joke. Even though this is not an article, its ment to be joke and all you want to insult me but not directly so scientists said... It was first tought crossing my mind when i started read your comment and lets just say your comment fulfilled my expectation. I bet every player who main guardian at some point going to try willbender at pvp and your comment insult them all. Be careful there..

 

Anyway...

 

Your goal in spvp is to (mostly) hold points. With your team mates probably at middle and you can do so much better as support. Or duel for far/close point and there are still better duelist for that. Matching usually puts same class on opposing teams. Lets say one have core support guardian and other one willbender.. guess who most likely wins..

 

 

 

 

Same as the opening: "Studies have shown that..." but they conveniently don't mention any studies!

[Crab Fear.8623]

6 hours ago, semak.7481 said:

They must whack it as if thats a cockroach like they did with other specs, nuke the core instead of WB, no splits, straight up nuking, which is good, tempest then could compete for the support role.

no tempest should stick to its own form of support. auras

core guardian doesn't need any nerfs.