Bladesong cast times

[jaif.3518]

I have tremendous altitis, so when I say that I've stuck with virtuoso for many weeks now, well, it's impressive.  I really like the class.

 

"50% F1"?!?  How can the Devs take this thread seriously with that tossed around?  I can see a projectile speed increase so it's a bit less easy to just side-step.  I understand complaints about the daze.  But it's a question of small tweaks here, not how many one-shot-F1s can you throw per minute.

 

None of which addresses the concern of the OP, which is just that it's rather clunky to fire at high ping.  Even with a respectable ping, I notice that I need a bit of a pause to make sure it goes off (esp in WvW with skill lags).  I'm not sure what the proper fix is, but I support the OP and agree that it should be looked at.

 

-Jeff

[semak.7481]

Certain 🤡 didnt even quoted from where this 50% came from... nor the context... not even bothered to read further nor understand what makes this garbage class so unlikable and frustrating to play...

[jaif.3518]

12 hours ago, semak.7481 said:

Certain 🤡 didnt even quoted from where this 50% came from... nor the context... not even bothered to read further nor understand what makes this garbage class so unlikable and frustrating to play...

 

You said "Okay, keep it like that, buff damage by 50% on F1 at least."

 

That's crazy talk.  F1 is a very damaging skill, with 50% added damage it just becomes a silly game of how many massive damage shots you can toss in a minute before you wear out your opponent.

 

As for the rest, I disagree entirely with the class being unlikable or frustrating.  I am enjoying it.  You obviously disagree, but again, adding 50% damage to F1 is just silly, IMO.

 

...and again, this has almost nothing to do with the original post, which was just a polite request to look at activation quirkiness at high ping.   I think we should respect the OP's original post a bit.

[semak.7481]

20 hours ago, jaif.3518 said:

You said "Okay, keep it like that, buff damage by 50% on F1 at least."

You are incapable of reading... again... and again... 🤦‍♂️

But you dont seems to get in even if you would read everything, either you give it so much damage so regardless of clunkiness it becomes good or they fix this nonsense called bladesongs, which they wont do anyway. Dont recall them admitting doing mistakes, they are perfect in their own ill mind

20 hours ago, jaif.3518 said:

That's crazy talk.  F1 is a very damaging skill, with 50% added damage it just becomes a silly game of how many massive damage shots you can toss in a minute before you wear out your opponent.

Other classes can and do that much damage and its fine, why mesmer is not allowed given extreme clunkiness, cast times and delay? Double standards strikes again, who would have thought!

20 hours ago, jaif.3518 said:

As for the rest, I disagree entirely with the class being unlikable or frustrating.  I am enjoying it.  You obviously disagree, but again, adding 50% damage to F1 is just silly, IMO.

May be read post to which it was replied to and the rest of my post? 

And virtuoso fans are either pve'ers (passive bleeds/stationary giant targets, very hard to play /s) /just casuls who like looks and RP in human capital and never played mesmer or celestial wvw 🙊

But again you may like whatever, bathing in dirt daily and whatnot, doesnt change the fact that every single mesmer I ever knew hate garbageuoso just as me. 

This thread is not just about OP with his bad ping (because it can be closed with 1 argument: "get a better internet scrub")

Edited June 4, 2022 by semak.7481

[jaif.3518]

Power and condi, not celestial, in WvW.  Don't PvE that much.  

I make no claims to being a good player, but I'm enjoying virtuoso a lot in WvW.

[Mik.3401]

The virtuoso in general started receiving positive feedback from the community so I don’t think this will be addressed in particular. Faster projectiles is not something I can see happening because it feels like they made them so slow in the first place for a reason. Whether their reasoning is right or wrong is an open debate though.

[Salt Mode.3780]

10 minutes ago, Mik.3401 said:

The virtuoso in general started receiving positive feedback from the community so I don’t think this will be addressed in particular. Faster projectiles is not something I can see happening because it feels like they made them so slow in the first place for a reason. Whether their reasoning is right or wrong is an open debate though.

I see positive feedback in PvE but I rarely see positive feedbacks in competitive play which most people are concerned about, I don't know where you have been reading all these positive feedbacks besides the few who drowns out actual concerns.

[Infinity.2876]

At least it's not bladesworn Dragon trigger I feel sorry for those guys

[Salt Mode.3780]

2 minutes ago, Infinity.2876 said:

At least it's not bladesworn Dragon trigger I feel sorry for those guys

Dragon trigger is actually a insane skill anyone who says otherwise are literally trolling. That skill alone counters Virtuoso entirely. 

It is a skill that ignores blind, ignores blocks, tracks stealth, and CCs all in one. Not to mention it does decent damage.

[Mik.3401]

28 minutes ago, Salt Mode.3780 said:

I see positive feedback in PvE but I rarely see positive feedbacks in competitive play which most people are concerned about, I don't know where you have been reading all these positive feedbacks besides the few who drowns out actual concerns.

According to these forums shatters are fine most of the time. Criticising how slow etc. they are scores confused reactions and people often disagree, take a look at the OP. However, according to streamers virtuoso is not all that bad, especially in terms of defensives. It still sucks, but all Mesmers suck. Yes I mean competitive play too, why do you assume I don’t mean it?

[Sleepwalker.1398]

4 hours ago, Mik.3401 said:

According to these forums shatters are fine most of the time. Criticising how slow etc. they are scores confused reactions and people often disagree, take a look at the OP. However, according to streamers virtuoso is not all that bad, especially in terms of defensives. It still sucks, but all Mesmers suck. Yes I mean competitive play too, why do you assume I don’t mean it?

I think maybe some of those are PVE players cos there is leeway once you know boss/mob mechanics.

That said, competitive play is not as predictable.
Thus for me to just pause for bit just get a bladesong out can result me being in downstate looking at how fast a Willbender or say a Harb can take you down.
Say i thief was to nuke me, i can get F3 out quite easy on other specs to interrupt. But on Virtuoso on 250ms, it's just crap.

 Virtuoso is not the best in wvw but i'm just trying out a fun build but these bladesongs are just not working for me.

 

 

On 6/3/2022 at 7:29 AM, jaif.3518 said:

None of which addresses the concern of the OP, which is just that it's rather clunky to fire at high ping.  Even with a respectable ping, I notice that I need a bit of a pause to make sure it goes off (esp in WvW with skill lags).  I'm not sure what the proper fix is, but I support the OP and agree that it should be looked at.

 

-Jeff

This person gets what i'm trying to say.

[Mik.3401]

6 hours ago, Sleepwalker.1398 said:

I think maybe some of those are PVE players cos there is leeway once you know boss/mob mechanics.

That said, competitive play is not as predictable.
Thus for me to just pause for bit just get a bladesong out can result me being in downstate looking at how fast a Willbender or say a Harb can take you down.
Say i thief was to nuke me, i can get F3 out quite easy on other specs to interrupt. But on Virtuoso on 250ms, it's just crap.

 Virtuoso is not the best in wvw but i'm just trying out a fun build but these bladesongs are just not working for me.

 

 

This person gets what i'm trying to say.

The opinions change like weather and both criticising and praising the spec made me face opposition here anyway. I totally agree it is clunky, especially the F1. However I can also recognise that because of the virtuoso traits (top-top-top) and the general approach Anet has taken, it seems unlikely it will be changed.

[Xaylin.1860]

17 hours ago, Mik.3401 said:

However, according to streamers virtuoso is not all that bad, especially in terms of defensives.

Sorry what? That one trait and two Utility skills that are mostly worse than core due to their cooldown? Let me fix that for you: Virtuoso is especially bad in terms of defensives.

 

People might find joy while playing Virtuoso and its DPS clearly is fine from a benchmark point of view in PvE. But that doesn't negate all the issues with the spec or the concerns voiced especially by seasoned Mesmer players and it doesn't help that Chronomancer and Mirage were screwed over by nerfs and half-assed 'reworks'.

 

If there actually is a programming issue with how Bladesongs work with high ping, OP probably should do some testing and submit a bug report. Just saying 'Cast times are aweful with high ping.' isn't a very sound argument. I mean... the issue is clear but this won't justify skill or even balance changes. Virtuoso is meant to be played differently than other Mesmer specs and I don't see the casttime go anytime soon. Additionally, Willbender and Harbinger are not only bad match ups to begin with - they are also overtuned.

[Mik.3401]

2 hours ago, Xaylin.1860 said:

Sorry what? That one trait and two Utility skills that are mostly worse than core due to their cooldown? Let me fix that for you: Virtuoso is especially bad in terms of defensives.

 

People might find joy while playing Virtuoso and its DPS clearly is fine from a benchmark point of view in PvE. But that doesn't negate all the issues with the spec or the concerns voiced especially by seasoned Mesmer players and it doesn't help that Chronomancer and Mirage were screwed over by nerfs and half-assed 'reworks'.

 

If there actually is a programming issue with how Bladesongs work with high ping, OP probably should do some testing and submit a bug report. Just saying 'Cast times are aweful with high ping.' isn't a very sound argument. I mean... the issue is clear but this won't justify skill or even balance changes. Virtuoso is meant to be played differently than other Mesmer specs and I don't see the casttime go anytime soon. Additionally, Willbender and Harbinger are not only bad match ups to begin with - they are also overtuned.

Go on twitch and listen to what competitive Mesmer mains say instead of coming for me here lol. F4+top-top-top+the distortion utility give pretty strong defensives indeed as they say. I find core easier to play too but that doesn’t change their words so chill lol. You guys are on fire.

[Xaylin.1860]

1 minute ago, Mik.3401 said:

Go on twitch and listen to what competitive Mesmer mains say instead of coming for me here lol. F4+top-top-top+the distortion utility give pretty strong defensives indeed as they say. I find core easier to play too but that doesn’t change their words so chill lol. You guys are on fire.

I don't mean to come for you. 😉 However, that statement is objectively wrong and repeating it doesn't really help, does it?

 

I am aware of it's defensive capabilities. When comparing Virtuosos defense to Mirage and Chronomancer or even an additional core Mesmer traitline, it still happens to be the worst. Which makes statements like 'It is not bad at defense' kind of out of touch from reality.

 

Just to clarify: Personally, I'm not asking for Virtuoso do be good at defense. However, there are quite some issues with the spec and it most certainly needs improvements in some way. It is a one dimensional damage bot and using it outside of anything but PvE is an uphill battle. If it is ANets intention for it to be a PvE DPS spec, they surely achieved that. But for everything else it is not even average in most cases.

[Mik.3401]

3 minutes ago, Xaylin.1860 said:

I don't mean to come for you. 😉 However, that statement is objectively wrong and repeating it doesn't really help, does it?

 

I am aware of it's defensive capabilities. When comparing Virtuosos defense to Mirage and Chronomancer or even an additional core Mesmer traitline, it still happens to be the worst. Which makes statements like 'It is not bad at defense' kind of out of touch from reality.

 

Just to clarify: Personally, I'm not asking for Virtuoso do be good at defense. However, there are quite some issues with the spec and it most certainly needs improvements in some way. It is a one dimensional damage bot and using it outside of anything but PvE is an uphill battle. If it is ANets intention for it to be a PvE DPS spec, they surely achieved that. But for everything else it is not even average in most cases.

‘Not all that bad’ does not mean necessarily good. However, in comparison to other power builds at least I can agree it has strong defensives. If that was the point I was making.

I agree with the points you made here though, like I did since first beta.

[semak.7481]

19 hours ago, Sleepwalker.1398 said:

This person gets what i'm trying to say.

While its a legit thing, beyond stupid cast times and delay before blades are being fired....

If your issue is the ping, then get a better connection? Or did you expect them to bend to your will and change class because some pleb has high ping? Like really?🤦‍♂️

[Sleepwalker.1398]

2 hours ago, semak.7481 said:

While its a legit thing, beyond stupid cast times and delay before blades are being fired....

If your issue is the ping, then get a better connection? Or did you expect them to bend to your will and change class because some pleb has high ping? Like really?🤦‍♂️

You should get off your high horse, move to Australia and try playing with Australian ping.

Edited June 6, 2022 by Sleepwalker.1398
Grammer

[viquing.8254]

Just to put a warning that buffing temporisation tools on a spec to hide core problem will IMO going to a wall.

I really facepalm when I see the up they did on virtuoso trying make it work in PvP.

It need more thinking about how to make core spec mechanic work (by looking at why it didn't work.) than just give a 5 sec CD 3 sec block utility skill (to caricaturate.).

Mean is a weapon espec who do only damage is a good conception  ?

 

So back to the topic, it's not just the cast on bladesong but the fact that this spec wasn't designed at all for PvP which is the main problem. And applying glue by overbuffing few utility skill is only going to create cheesy gameplay.

 

Edited June 7, 2022 by viquing.8254