Dungeon change is like moving a pile of rocks from one spot to another

[Labjax.2465]

Previously, you could argue the individual dungeon currencies setup was unnecessarily complex and wallet filling in an already big wallet. But, buying from the vendors was simple. You have enough of the currency for that dungeon for the item you want? You can buy. Now they simplified the currency itself and added complexity with the vendor lock. Now it's more like "you have the currency, but um, you also need to do this arbitrary objective to get access for each vendor." It's virtually the same system, but with the restriction moved to another place, which is why I compare it to moving a pile of rocks.

It has also (intention unknown) resulted in a nerf to access for the WvW player. Bugs aside, it means WvW players will no longer be able to spend the dungeon currency they get from dungeon reward tracks unless they do PvE to bypass the lock for each dungeon.

It's the kind of change where it looks like something is being done, but nothing meaningful is really being accomplished.

I'm not going to suggest how to improve it because I'm not being paid to and devs won't read it anyway. I just don't want this to be a situation where Anet fixes the bugged aspect of vendor access and then it's paraded around as a win and the underlying meaninglessness and overall downgrade of the design change is forgotten and normalized.

[Zzik.5873]

And in the long run, it will completly and ultimatly kill all dungeon except the easiest and shortest one. I really really hate this change. 

[firedragon.8953]

1 hour ago, Makuragee.3058 said:

And in the long run, it will completly and ultimatly kill all dungeon except the easiest and shortest one. I really really hate this change. 

They really need to make a dungeon daily category that rotates through the dungeons (Like LWS3 & LWS4 dailies). Doing those dungeons provide 20% more currency and some karma pots or something, through the daily loot box after each explorable path.

I also still think dungeon story mode cutscenes should not be skippable and that anyone who joins story mode who has already cleared it should get a "mentor buff" increasing exp, magic find, and a choice of stat selectable account-bound dungeon armor upon completion once per day (when a daily... a "Daily Dungeon Mentor" achieve, if you will.).

When (if) GW2 hits Steam, having active dungeon content for f2p below lvl 80 characters is probably a good idea.

[Hotride.2187]

The vendor in lions arch near the fotm gate lets me buy everything, without asking for unlocks, no idea if anything changed in the last few hours. I got Dungeon Master title if that makes any difference.

Bug or feature?

Or maybe you mean for new players?

Edited June 8, 2022 by Hotride.2187

[Friday.7864]

You only have to unlock the items ONCE. One time.
What's the big deal here? I don't get it...
PvE players have to go to WvW repeatedly for gift of battle. WvW players can't even do a one time unlock in PvE?

The only issue I see is how people have no reason to do the more difficult dungeons anymore. Why would you do Arah if the easiest dungeon gives the same currency?

 

Edited June 8, 2022 by Friday.7864

[Labjax.2465]

4 hours ago, Makuragee.3058 said:

And in the long run, it will completly and ultimatly kill all dungeon except the easiest and shortest one. I really really hate this change. 

I saw someone on reddit suggesting they do a rotating daily thing to alleviate this problem. Seems like it might help. But yeah, in general, it's a weird change. Completely out of the blue and without larger changes to dungeons to make them more appealing. Not even a mention of such changes being under consideration.

It's like they wanted to simplify the currency, but were afraid nobody would do most of the dungeons, so they dreamed up this asinine vendor lock idea to have there be a flow of new players coming in who need to do it, but never considered that most players are not going to engage with dungeons in the first place for a variety of reasons. And whoever did it and approved it can't possibly be in communication with the same people who said WvW rewards were being looked at, unless they meant they're being looked at to make them worse lol.

I can already think of a possible way to do a lock without making things worse for WvW players just from idly musing about it while writing this post, so idk what they're on about with this change.

[Gotejjeken.1267]

1 hour ago, Hotride.2187 said:

The vendor in lions arch near the fotm gate lets me buy everything, without asking for unlocks, no idea if anything changed in the last few hours. I got Dungeon Master title if that makes any difference.

Bug or feature?

Or maybe you mean for new players?

 

Of course the Dungeon Master title makes the difference--you've ran them all at least once so everything is unlocked.

I agree heavily with this though: 

 

4 hours ago, Makuragee.3058 said:

And in the long run, it will completly and ultimatly kill all dungeon except the easiest and shortest one. I really really hate this change. 

 

I don't think they thought this through.  Personally, I haven't touched dungeons in 9 years and randomly happened to complete the four remaining I needed a week or so back for the core mastery point, but if I hadn't done that I can see how annoying it would be to get a group for the harder ones.  

I get dungeons are only core Tyria and the game has long moved on from when CoE and Arah were challenges, but it's not a good idea to introduce new players to a 'one size fits all' deal like that.  It ruins all the map events leading to the harder dungeons as no one is going to do them anymore, and ruins the feel of the game when maps mattered instead of metas.  

Since it's obvious this is a 'final shelving' for the dungeon concept, then why not just make them into fractals? Because right now the dungeons have been orphaned from the maps they were on anyway, because no one cares about lore (not even anet), they just care about rewards.  So totally separate them into fractals and at least give them play that way.  

[Geckoo.6018]

I was already doing dungeons every weekend, so the change has been great and allowed me to finish my dungeon collections. But i can see how the change is actually bad on the long run... in fact, it will ultimately make the dungeon issue more obvious than it already was.

Having a daily dungeon rotation would be great. I would go even further and say that it should specify a path from said dungeon(s), but more importantly, there also needs to be a better and more clear way to turn the dungeon currency into profit, even if dungeons remain as not one of the best ways to make some coin.

[geogiam.5301]

I am relative new player. I have not all dungeons because there is few people willing to do them.

LFG is completely terrible and I just posted on how to fix it.

I have done a few dungeons and I liked them, I am surprised how a few are actually hard.

1- Dungeons take more time than fractals and rewards are very poor.

2- Currencies are a mess, I don't know what to do with all those things and I never have enough to buy anything.

3- It would be good if the game can automatically tell you when you select the mission, which have you done and which are you missing.

Regards,

GEO

[Zok.4956]

3 hours ago, Labjax.2465 said:

I can already think of a possible way to do a lock without making things worse for WvW players just from idly musing about it while writing this post, so idk what they're on about with this change.

Yeah. Simple solution:  Just also unlock the vendor items for a dungeon, if the dungeon reward track is at least completed once (the game already tracks if a reward track is completed at least once).

This way "PvE-only" players would have to do the dungeons and "WvW-only" players would not need to go into the dungeons if they want to buy dungeon items.

[EnryVas.1036]

Really do not understand this move, really bad decision Arenanet....

[Arbelor.9036]

5 hours ago, Friday.7864 said:

You only have to unlock the items ONCE. One time.
What's the big deal here? I don't get it...
PvE players have to go to WvW repeatedly for gift of battle. WvW players can't even do a one time unlock in PvE?

The only issue I see is how people have no reason to do the more difficult dungeons anymore. Why would you do Arah if the easiest dungeon gives the same currency?

 

The big deal is that I now have to do 40 dungeon runs in order to have all the flexibility to spend the currency that I already earned. If you suddenly had to do 40 keep captures in WvW in order to spend the Gift(s) of Battle that were already sitting in your bank you might be ticked off too.

[Arbelor.9036]

59 minutes ago, Zok.4956 said:

Yeah. Simple solution:  Just also unlock the vendor items for a dungeon, if the dungeon reward track is at least completed once (the game already tracks if a reward track is completed at least once).

This way "PvE-only" players would have to do the dungeons and "WvW-only" players would not need to go into the dungeons if they want to buy dungeon items.

This.  Seems like the logical solution to the WvW issue.

[Friday.7864]

PvE players can't get Gift of Battle outside of WvW (which usually takes 6-8 hours to acquire each time).
I don't mind it personally, but many people despise WvW, yet are forced to do it if they want their legendary.

And WvW players can't even do dungeons once to unlock items?  
Spoiled much? 

[Arbelor.9036]

Except it's not once.  I did AC last evening just to test that - it unlocked nothing.

[Friday.7864]

It's obv some kind of achievement. 
You still have to do the ach only once.
And it's still not the end of the world.

[Zok.4956]

21 minutes ago, Friday.7864 said:

PvE players can't get Gift of Battle outside of WvW (which usually takes 6-8 hours to acquire each time).
I don't mind it personally, but many people despise WvW, yet are forced to do it if they want their legendary.

And WvW players can't even do dungeons once to unlock items?

Just because Anet made a bad choice about the Gift of Battle doesn't mean other bad choices are justified.

[Arbelor.9036]

It's not the end of the world - never said it was. But by your own math (6-8 hours per reward track), having done the reward tracks for each dungeon at least once, that's 48-64 hours I already have in...and I've done some of them multiple times.  So having already spent the time and "done the thing", seems like I should be able to spend the currency I already earned. 

 

If I have to do 40 dungeon runs...well I can do that. But that still doesn't mean this was a good change.

[Friday.7864]

True.
They should have announced the currency conversion and locking of items so you get one final chance to spend your currency - before you decide to avoid doing dungeon tracks forever and ever until the end of time.

The dungeon runs themselves are still a non issue imo. 
Someone who kills other players in WvW can surely handle a few mobs in a dungeon.
 

 

[Dezzie.5903]

I'm really unhappy with the change requiring completing the explorable mode of a dungeon to use the currency. Quite frankly my experiences with 5-man content in GW2 have been horrific. For the majority of the time the GW2 community is one of the best in any MMO, until players step through a portal. Then a sizeable chunk mutate into the disgusting "gogogo" a-holes found in every other MMO.

(No offense to the players who actually show patience, but I never ran into one in my long abandoned efforts.)

[Vidit.7108]

As someone who used to do daily dungeon runs back before Heart of Thorns: Dungeons, especially now, are some of the easiest content in the game. 

Most paths don't even require a full party to complete in minutes. Your average clear time for all paths should be about the same time as a fractal daily unless you're with a group of completely new low level players. The only paths that are particularly hard are in Arah. 

As for the WvW players complaining, you can still get the gear from the dungeons as part of the armor box in the reward track, so I don't really buy that you're locked out of obtaining gear. Completing a track for tokens was a dismal reward pace compared to the amount of time the dungeons take anyway. Not all of it is even that useful and while i'm sure you've found better use for some of the runes it's not like the stats are spectacular or special. Your average Keep Lord is more challenging than most of the bosses in dungeons, just give it a shot. You only need to do the story once to unlock the reward track permanently, just do it for the rune you want and never touch dungeons again.
 

[Solitude.2097]

They could do what they did with pvp tournaments .

People can access the dungeons any time  wish , but every 2 hour  a tournament-style system will choose a random dungeon . And if enough people show , the system will reset in 1 hour instead +offer more gold they can progress in a set like Sunshine (white sword).

Special rules ,like "dps faster" will be not tolerated .And offseason(normal play time) , they could progress faster unlocking a different  set (like "Twilight" (while the tournament offer money)

 

Edit: What if doing the longest daily quest (the 2gold one) offered a portable scrying portal(public Version") for a 3-day ?And that portal try to match people that have some specific achievements the other don't?

Edited June 8, 2022 by Solitude.2097

[Brandon Uzumaki.1524]

8 hours ago, Friday.7864 said:

PvE players can't get Gift of Battle outside of WvW (which usually takes 6-8 hours to acquire each time).
I don't mind it personally, but many people despise WvW, yet are forced to do it if they want their legendary.

And WvW players can't even do dungeons once to unlock items?  
Spoiled much? 

Legendary weapons are 90% PvE, PvE players can't stand to do 8 hours of WvW, but WvW players should be content in being forced to do weeks of PvE to get a legendary weapon? and they are the spolied ones??

You need Dungeon stuff, you need Fractal stuff, you need to do lot's of open world events and world bosses, and to top it off you also need 100% PvE map completion, that's at least a entire week of PvE only content depending on the player, the "effort" PvE only players have to go through to get a Gift of Battle for a Legendary, doesn't compare to the effort WvW only players have to go through to get a legendary weapon too.

I don't mind it personally, since i do both content, but i can see why this can kitten off some WvW only players.


Also, adressing another point, i saw others mentioning that Anet should allow PvP/WvW players to unlock the vendors by completing "X Dungeon Reward Track" at least once, but don't you have to run a dungeon path at least once to unlock it's reward track first? So it's kinda redundant no? Anet would need to remove this requirement first.

[Labjax.2465]

14 hours ago, Zok.4956 said:

Yeah. Simple solution:  Just also unlock the vendor items for a dungeon, if the dungeon reward track is at least completed once (the game already tracks if a reward track is completed at least once).

This way "PvE-only" players would have to do the dungeons and "WvW-only" players would not need to go into the dungeons if they want to buy dungeon items.

Yep! That's exactly what I was thinking too. Don't know why they didn't just do this to begin with if they were going to add a lock. Clearly not the most well thought out change considering it's bugged too.

And they are already doing operation sweep this under the rug by moving the dungeon threads to instanced content section where no one will read it... so much for trying to make sure this wouldn't get swept under the rug. Meanwhile, Grouch answered some things on a Teapot stream, according to a reddit thread, but from the quotes they shared, doesn't seem to have addressed the concerns with the change itself or bugs relating to it (the quotes shared are about the motivations behind it). It's frustrating the lengths these entities will go to, to dodge accountability for their actions. Like I don't want to assume the worst, I want to be happy with what they're doing, but it looks a lot like PR team moving into action because somebody screwed up, hoping they can "clean it up" without needing to devote any actual dev resources to it.

[Friday.7864]

9 hours ago, Brandon Uzumaki.1524 said:

Legendary weapons are 90% PvE, PvE players can't stand to do 8 hours of WvW, but WvW players should be content in being forced to do weeks of PvE to get a legendary weapon? and they are the spolied ones??

You need Dungeon stuff, you need Fractal stuff, you need to do lot's of open world events and world bosses, and to top it off you also need 100% PvE map completion, that's at least a entire week of PvE only content depending on the player, the "effort" PvE only players have to go through to get a Gift of Battle for a Legendary, doesn't compare to the effort WvW only players have to go through to get a legendary weapon too.

I don't mind it personally, since i do both content, but i can see why this can kitten off some WvW only players.


Also, adressing another point, i saw others mentioning that Anet should allow PvP/WvW players to unlock the vendors by completing "X Dungeon Reward Track" at least once, but don't you have to run a dungeon path at least once to unlock it's reward track first? So it's kinda redundant no? Anet would need to remove this requirement first.

You can literally buy all the weapons on TP....