Elite specs needs to be rotated

[Sahne.6950]

1 hour ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

This is again what I"m talking about. You have absolutely no clue what you're saying at all.

You just coined Warrior as "a class that isn't adaptable". If you had any idea what you were talking about at all, you'd realize that Warrior is still amongst the top 3 1v1 classes and the only reason why is because it actually is debatably the most versatile & adaptable class in the game for creating counters.

Then you turn around and use Ele as contrast saying that it is adaptable, when Ele is no where near as adaptable as Warrior. Ele is actually incredibly hard locked into the use of certain things or it quickly becomes not viable at all.

What i was saying is, that Elementalist can fullfill ALL ROLES by simply pressing a button to switch. i am not talking about countering a specific opponent. i am talking about executing certain roles for your team.

YES you can counter the mesmer that is approacing you. But you can not completly swap from support to sidenoder back to support and now roamer.  Some professions can... some cant. IMBALANCE.

Edited June 14, 2022 by Sahne.6950

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

3 minutes ago, Sahne.6950 said:

There is a addon that swaps your build with the press of a button....  apparently you did not know...

Open your in-game options and select controls. Scroll down to where it shows build templates. Set your hotkeys.

This does not require 3rd party programs.

6 minutes ago, Sahne.6950 said:

You sir are rude and cant deal with criticism or people not sharing your opinion. Your only resort is to insult. i am done talking to you... i told you what i think and why i think that. and everything your saying is: "you have no clue" when in reality it appears that you have not thought out your idea well....

I know it probably feels that way to you right now, but if you were to walk away from this discussion and come back later to reread this, you'd see that all I did was better explain my suggestion after you had pointed at it and said it wasn't a good one. During that process I pointed out some misconceptions in your feelings, mainly that you were commenting on something you clearly have no experience with, which as much is obvious.

Anyway man, paint it however you want. Just remember that any time you throw around bologna in the forum, someone will eventually show up to call you out on it. If you don't like it, stop throwing around bologna.

[Sahne.6950]

1 hour ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

Open your in-game options and select controls. Scroll down to where it shows build templates. Set your hotkeys.

This does not require 3rd party programs.

but it can be done via 3rd party programms... people will abuse it, i can guarantee you that.

and for your suggestion you need to invest gold/gems into build templates...is it intended to give a huge advantage to people that bought these buildtemplates? Is it intended to be yet again another barrier of entry for new players? why would anyone spend hundreds of gold when you can simply use a 3rd party programm? Some people will simply use the addon to do that.... will that be allowed? are we banning those? How can we tell if someone is using the "absolutely-not-p2w-gemstore-Buildtemplates", or the 3rd party addon?whats the plan here? so many questions! with so little answers... its simply not well thoughtout...

Edited June 14, 2022 by Sahne.6950

[Sahne.6950]

1 hour ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

know it probably feels that way to you right now, but if you were to walk away from this discussion and come back later to reread this, you'd see that all I did was better explain my suggestion after you had pointed at it and said it wasn't a good one. During that process I pointed out some misconceptions in your feelings, mainly that you were commenting on something you clearly have no experience with, which as much is obvious.

Anyway man, paint it however you want. Just remember that any time you throw around bologna in the forum, someone will eventually show up to call you out on it. If you don't like it, stop throwing around bologna.

im sure that one day i will come back to this and think: YES! THIS GUYS IS RIGHT! everyother one here is simply wrong... anet is wrong... the world is wrong. Trevor is love... Trevor is eternal. /s😂 HOLY SMOKES XD

in all honesty... you have not convinced me one bit... you have not proven anything.. all you have done is insulting me and telling me i have no clue in literally every single post you have done so far. And i still think that was very rude and unjustified.

i still believe being able to switch builds when OOC is a bad thing for pvp.

good luck with your suggestion.

 

Edited June 14, 2022 by Sahne.6950

[Gotejjeken.1267]

Switching on the fly doesn't really make competitive sense.  Sure, it opens up possibilities, but it also creates an absolute balance nightmare.  Like, you literally have no counters, because everything is a counter.

What other competitive game allows this? Even old school RTS's if you try switching your strategy on the fly was a huge penalty and gamble and most times didn't work.  Looking at fighting games like MvC, it'd be like being able to switch your comp at any time to counter another comp...it's just kinda insane sounding.  

[Sahne.6950]

1 hour ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

Switching on the fly doesn't really make competitive sense.  Sure, it opens up possibilities, but it also creates an absolute balance nightmare.  Like, you literally have no counters, because everything is a counter.

What other competitive game allows this? Even old school RTS's if you try switching your strategy on the fly was a huge penalty and gamble and most times didn't work.  Looking at fighting games like MvC, it'd be like being able to switch your comp at any time to counter another comp...it's just kinda insane sounding.  

it would a) be a balance nightmare and b)  will either be p2w(buildtemplates for gems) or another barrier of entrance (Buildtemplates for Gold) or will encourage 3rd party programm abuse(buildtemplates without having to spend gold/gems).

 

Edited June 14, 2022 by Sahne.6950

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

1 hour ago, Sahne.6950 said:

you are literally being spammed with confused......

Now this is where your naivety is exposed. The reason why my posts receive so many responses, whether positive or negative, is because people actually read my content and are concerned with where the bandwagon is headed and what it might result in. It is not uncommon for a person who is arguing with me to be concerned enough, that they log into all of their alt accounts to make sure they confuse face the suggestion I made that they don't want people to agree with, as many times as they can. But I think this may be one thing that you do already know a bit about, seeing as how I now have 1 confused face on all my posts in this thread directly after you pointed a finger towards confused face counts . Typical.

The reason why your posts aren't receiving responses, even from me, is because people don't take what you say seriously. They read the misinformation you are posting and it generally triggers the associative response of one thinking to themself "This is not worth responding to." Why? Because they firmly believe no one else will respond either so they aren't concerned with it, because most of what you are saying is highly inaccurate, clearly is not based from in-game experience, or plainly doesn't even make sense.

You probably still want to encourage the idea that I am insulting you, but in all seriousness, I am the one person taking my time to point these things out to you. If you want to have any meaningful interaction in these forum discussions you should consider what I've said here, and maybe stop tossing bologna into places it doesn't belong.

Oh and also, check this out:

1 hour ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

Switching on the fly doesn't really make competitive sense.  Sure, it opens up possibilities, but it also creates an absolute balance nightmare.  Like, you literally have no counters, because everything is a counter.

What other competitive game allows this? Even old school RTS's if you try switching your strategy on the fly was a huge penalty and gamble and most times didn't work.  Looking at fighting games like MvC, it'd be like being able to switch your comp at any time to counter another comp...it's just kinda insane sounding.  

Now this is a proper counter-point to place into this discussion ^

You see what he did here was bring up the idea that "things should be getting countered", as well as bring up some examples from other games as to how this suggestion would apply there-in.

What he did not do, was toss around bologna about things he knows nothing about. He also did not attempt to discredit my words by suggesting that "I didn't think anything through" or "pointing at confused faces".

 

Just something to think about man. Heads up.

 

Edited June 14, 2022 by Trevor Boyer.6524

[Sahne.6950]

42 minutes ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

Now this is where your naivety is exposed. The reason why my posts receive so many responses, whether positive or negative, is because people actually read my content and are concerned with where the bandwagon is headed and what it might result in. It is not uncommon for a person who is arguing with me to be concerned enough, that they log into all of their alt accounts to make sure they confuse face the suggestion I made that they don't want people to agree with, as many times as they can. But I think this may be one thing that you do already know a bit about, seeing as how I now have 1 confused face on all my posts in this thread directly after you pointed a finger towards confused face counts . Typical.

The reason why your posts aren't receiving responses, even from me, is because people don't take what you say seriously. They read the misinformation you are posting and it generally triggers the associative response of one thinking to themself "This is not worth responding to." Why? Because they firmly believe no one else will respond either so they aren't concerned with it, because most of what you are saying is highly inaccurate, clearly is not based from in-game experience, or plainly doesn't even make sense.

You probably still want to encourage the idea that I am insulting you, but in all seriousness, I am the one person taking my time point these things out to you. If you want to have any meaningful interaction in these forum discussions you should consider what I've said here, and maybe stop tossing bologna into places it doesn't belong.

 

Oh and also, check this out:

Now this is a proper counter-point to place into this discussion ^

You see what he did here was bring up the idea that "things should be getting countered", as well as bring up some examples from other games as to how this suggestion would apply there-in.

What he did not do, was toss around bologna about things he knows nothing about. He also did not attempt to discredit my words by suggesting that "I didn't think anything through" or "pointing at confused faces".

 

Just something to think about man. Heads up.

 

again you think that its me that is voting confused😂 now your even throwing in the posibility that people are using alt-accounts to give you the "confused"-treatment. 😂 if you imply that is me with alt-accounts... i literally just have this one account. i am NOT going to buy the base gw2 game, just so i can vote confused on someones forum post.

The reason why your posts aren't receiving responses, even from me, is because people don't take what you say seriously.

if you would read the thread carefully you would notice that crabfear, justiceretro and you are all directly responding to me and even quoting me.

Crabfear: But the option would be available to everyone....

Justiceretro: Then that essentially guarantees that his suggestion would never happen. Big whoop. Nobody was expecting that to happen in the first place.

^they even made jokes about your idea... the exact opposite, of what you are claiming here is actually true.

I am literally voicing my concerns about your suggestion and you try to discredit all of my words by implying that i spread missinformation, when all i am doing is telling you my point of view and the problems that i see. You could have simply accepted that i have a diffrent opinion... but you chose to call me a noob.

Edited June 14, 2022 by Sahne.6950

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

6 minutes ago, Sahne.6950 said:

again you think that its me that is voting confused😂 now your even throwing in the posibility that people are using alt-accounts to give you the "confused"-treatment. 😂

I am literally voicing my concerns about your suggestion and you try to discredit all of my words by implying that i spread missinformation, when all i am doing is telling you my point of view and the problems that i see.

When a point of view or opinion is incorrect, it is no longer valid and then becomes misinformation.

For example, you've said twice now that: "using build templates is p2w because people who buy gems can buy more templates", as if pulling out your credit card and buying gems with USD were the only way to unlock extra build templates, when in reality you can just transmute in-game gold into gems. Build templates are certainly not gated behind USD purchases. Acting & saying that they are is just misinformation.

Another example, you said that 3rd party software grants an advantage to being able to swap templates quickly, when in reality there are in-game hotkeys you can set that literally do the exact same thing. This is just more misinformation. No one would be gaining any advantages in swap speed by running any 3rd party programs over the speed of the normal in-game hotkeys.

Yet another example, you tried to use Warrior as an example of a class that isn't adaptable and how my suggestion would hurt the Warrior more than he is already hurt, which is complete misinformation. The Warrior class still sees exceptionally high representation rates in 1v1 settings, and I'm talking top 3 classes used, for the sole reason that it might actually be the most adaptable class in the game in terms of its ability to quickly swap a selection or two, to turn itself from being countered into a counter against its opponent. My suggestion would buff Warrior's performance in Conquest a great deal actually. Warrior might actually be the class that benefited from it the most.

This will be my last post to you, as I can see you aren't picking up on the social queues and don't care to lament your behavior or learn anything from it. I can also see that you are currently going back through every post you've made in this thread and are editing/rewriting them nearly from the ground up, as if to save face, as if you thought thousands of viewers were watching our discussion live, as if they cared.

But it's w/e man. No matter how you want to paint it over the history of this thread, at some point you just have to buck up and stop being goofy to begin with. That's all I was trying to point out to you.

[Sahne.6950]

11 minutes ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

For example, you've said twice now that: "using build templates is p2w because people who buy gems can buy more templates", as if pulling out your credit card and buying gems with USD were the only way to unlock extra build templates, when in reality you can just transmute in-game gold into gems.

i told you that is either p2w(when bought with gems), or another barrier of entry for new players(when buying with gold), as you have to unlock multiple buildtemplates and you need multiple for EVERY toon as they are not accountwide.

11 minutes ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

Another example, you said that 3rd party software grants an advantage to being able to swap templates quickly, when in reality there are in-game hotkeys you can set that literally do the exact same thing. This is just more misinformation

There is a addon that gives unlimited Build templates. i told you about it. Yet again you are not reading carefully.

11 minutes ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

Yet another example, you tried to use Warrior as an example of a class that isn't adaptable and how my suggestion would hurt the Warrior more than he is already hurt, which is complete misinformation. The Warrior class still sees exceptionally high representation rates in 1v1 settings

I am talking about the ability of certain professions to literally fulfill all roles! i am not talking about countering a specifc enemy to be extra effective in your role, aka. in the example of warrior sidenoding. my concern is that some profession will be viable/good in every role, while others will still be stuck on their one role. Again, you are not reading carefully.

11 minutes ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

. I can also see that you are currently going back through every post you've made in this thread and are editing/rewriting them nearly from the ground up

straight up not true. i deleted  things as it was just back and forth between us and the message works with less words,  i have not rewriten anything from the groud up.... I just dont want anyone to have a seizure reading this "holy-mother-of-a-derail".

Edited June 14, 2022 by Sahne.6950

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

@Sahne.6950

Yeah yeah it's all good man.

Here is a video streamed yesterday where I am swapping between Druid/Soulbeast in WvW. This is the kind of dynamic that is just more fun once you actually try it and start using it.

The bulk of the good action is between 15:00 and 26:00. So about an 11 minute watch time:

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1503003932

[Sahne.6950]

21 minutes ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

@Sahne.6950

Yeah yeah it's all good man.

Here is a video streamed yesterday where I am swapping between Druid/Soulbeast in WvW. This is the kind of dynamic that is just more fun once you actually try it and start using it.

The bulk of the good action is between 15:00 and 26:00. So about an 11 minute watch time:

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1503003932

looks good! nice gameplay!

i also switch between builds, sometimes i OOC just to swap to a build that counters, whatever person i am facing. Its cool and adds another element of flexibility and makes you viable for a broader array of situations. I just wanted to point out that it might be abuseable in pvp, because of the addon that i told you about.

even this... i am abusing this already. With thief i am swapping to a build with shadowarts and Shadowrefugee. I stack stealth, and then i return to my original S/D build. et voila... permastealth Sword thief(atleast till i open then i can not switch anymore obviously; but i can hover around fights completly in stealh, or in the case of pvp i could move around the map and decap in stealth!) I seriously do NOT want things like this in ranked pvp.

Edited June 14, 2022 by Sahne.6950

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

26 minutes ago, Sahne.6950 said:

even this... i am abusing this already. With thief i am swapping to a build with shadowarts and Shadowrefugee. I stack stealth, and then i return to my original S/D build. et voila... permastealth Sword thief(atleast till i open then i can not switch anymore obviously; but i can hover around fights completly in stealh, or in the case of pvp i could move around the map and decap in stealth!) I seriously do NOT want things like this in ranked pvp.

There we go, now that's a valid argument. I hadn't considered the idea of using template swaps specifically for pre-buffing. I'm glad you brought this up because this single point invalidates the idea of any balance behind my suggestion. This way I know not to worry about advocating for it any longer.

In fact, I am very glad you brought this up because it makes me wonder what it could be used for in WvW roaming. The first thing that comes to mind for me is using a full concentration stat Firebrand with Rune Of The Firebrand for maximum Quickness duration. You prebuff yourself with an elongated Quickness buff along with w/e other buffs you want and then swap to Willbender.

Similar broken things could be done with other classes. The only drawback to this would be to be careful about the CDs of the skills you use to buff with, because those CDs will still be present when you swap. But if you were to just tunnel vision a single buff like the Quickness off Firebrand into Willbender, there wouldn't be many CDs to really worry about upon swapping and the massively elongated Quick buff would entirely be worth it.

Yeah, template slot for prebuff is messed up. This idea would be incredibly abusive in small havoc or zergs. I'll have to see what I can come up with.

Edited June 14, 2022 by Trevor Boyer.6524

[Sahne.6950]

15 minutes ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

There we go, now that's a valid argument. I hadn't considered the idea of using template swaps specifically for pre-buffing. I'm glad you brought this up because this single point invalidates the idea of any balance behind my suggestion. This way I know not to worry about advocating for it any longer.

In fact, I am very glad you brought this up because it makes me wonder what it could be used for in WvW roaming. The first thing that comes to mind for me is using a full concentration stat Firebrand with Rune Of The Firebrand for maximum Quickness duration. You prebuff yourself with an elongated Quickness buff along with w/e other buffs you want and then swap to Willbender.

Similar broken things could be done with other classes. The only drawback to this would be to be careful about the CDs of the skills you use to buff with, because those CDs will still be present when you swap. But if you were to just tunnel vision a single buff like the Quickness off Firebrand into Willbender, there would be many CDs to really worry about upon swapping and the massively elongated Quick buff would entirely be worth it.

Yeah, template slot for prebuff is messed up. This idea would be incredibly abusive in small havoc or zergs. I'll have to see what I can come up with.

❤️

it does not work the way you think it does. When swapping build templates you are loosing boons that are currently on you.  You could buff up your other teammates, but you personally will loose the buffs that you gave to yourself when swapping. But please imagine two of you use "buff-templates" and then swap to your real template before the first midfight, you guys will loose the portion of buffs that you gave to yourself, but the other ones will still profit... You should read this.

Stealth is not included here(atleast it wasnt... maybe they patched it.) thats why it works.

awesome idea with the Quickbrand tho^^ would be funny if it works... its hella inconsistent! you have to try it i guess.

Edited June 14, 2022 by Sahne.6950

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

Hrm, but for some reason stealth still works.

Lingering effect may also still work then. For example, Chrono Wells that make quickness. I highly doubt effects with animations that tick intervals disappear after swapping templates. So probably Chrono Wells, Scrapper Gyros, things like Shadow Refuge or maybe even Renegade spirits after cast, probably still work because they apply the buffs after the animation shows ups, sticks, and begins doing its intervals.

There are probably still a few ways to do some broken things here. I'll be looking into this to see what still works and what doesn't.

But if most of it gets removed, I still like my suggestion for template swaps in pvp.

Edited June 14, 2022 by Trevor Boyer.6524

[Sahne.6950]

16 minutes ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

Hrm, but for some reason stealth still works.

Lingering effect may also still work then. For example, Chrono Wells that make quickness. I highly doubt effects with animations that tick intervals disappear after swapping templates. So probably Chrono Wells, Scrapper Gyros, things like Shadow Refuge or maybe even Renegade spirits after cast, probably still work because they apply the buffs after the animation shows ups, sticks, and begins doing its intervals.

There are probably still a few ways to do some broken things here.

But if most of it gets removed though, then I still like my suggestion for template swaps in pvp.

it is inconsistent. Certain groundthings disappear, and some dont. You could still use templates to "prebuff" its just 1 person that is not benefiting from it. Your holo for example could still quickly swap to Scrapper, give the team 10+ Seconds of quickness and then quickly become Protholo again. Also the status reset only happens when you are swapping a trait or utilityskill. You could use Weapons to buff yourself up and then just swap these weapons for your real ones without any CD or negative effects. Every Ele will be running around with Rockbarrier 24/7... because it would be stupid not to do it... it would be a nightmare to even attempt to balance all of these things....

Edited June 14, 2022 by Sahne.6950

[JusticeRetroHunter.7684]

5 hours ago, Sahne.6950 said:

Justiceretro: Then that essentially guarantees that his suggestion would never happen. Big whoop. Nobody was expecting that to happen in the first place.

^they even made jokes about your idea... the exact opposite, of what you are claiming here is actually true.

 

should have expected the guy who spams emojis also doesn’t know how to understand language.

 

First; I didn’t make fun of Trevor or his post. I said “big whoop” to your overzealous reaction of screaming “bloody Mary, it’s so imbalanced!” to his hypothetical vote to a hypothetical change to the game…and that this somehow merits slamming the post with confused emojis; which dilutes the discussion.

This was also proved wrong btw as it already exists in the game (so it’s not hypothetical) in hotjoins and scrim games as Trevor pointed out a few posts above. I didn’t even know this myself. 

 

Secondly, nobody cares about emojis and nobody wants proof of your emoji usage lmao…people care about ideas and how they are conveyed so that people properly understand one another. If this is not your goal than you are a spiteful creature that doesn’t want to contribute to anything useful to society.

 

I asked 2 or 3 times about what is confusing about his post…but its obvious that Trevors post is clear to understand. So why the confusion? Because of spiteful people that want to use it as a dislike button instead of a confusion button like it’s supposed to be used.

 

we should do a new practice…let’s start using the like button as a dislike button…because in your world this makes perfect sense to do right!? (This is sarcasm btw)

Edited June 14, 2022 by JusticeRetroHunter.7684

[Sahne.6950]

good thing i have not voted anything in this post.

[Paradoxoglanis.1904]

Class banning should be a thing at the start of every match or every tournament.

[Sahne.6950]

12 hours ago, Paradoxoglanis.1904 said:

Class banning should be a thing at the start of every match or every tournament.

Yeah... when there is only 2 viable support specs.... i think thats a good idea...

Edited June 15, 2022 by Sahne.6950

[Choyacute.8591]

The person in charge of doing the pvp balance is doing an awesome job.

 

Basically we have to restrict/rotate specialization because of the balance is so well done.

 

 

Is it normal for a game, you are like okay let's play 30% of what the game has to offer instead of enjoying the full content because the balance is very well done.

 

It's normal for topic like that to start, it won't be the last.

 

Now we'll see in the next patch how they will nerf even more core engineer.

 

[Bazsi.2734]

On 6/13/2022 at 11:29 AM, Radiobiology.6185 said:

It's obviously going to be very difficult to have a healthy and balanced 5v5 pvp mode with this many elements to take into consideration when creating balance patches. It has gotten worse with time and it will keep getting worse, a new expansion is already in the works, probably with new elite specs and who knows, maybe a whole new class.

I think elite specializations should be rotated in some way, maybe seasonally. We could have a rotated mode and a non rotated mode where everything is available, so that people who wants to play something very specific can do so if they please.

Cool suggestion.  It's not relevant right now, but we can come back to it WHEN PEOPLE NO LONGER HAVE MAINS. Oh look, a nice freshly painted wall for me hit my head against until the hurt stops. Gotta go!

[Baseleader.4128]

On 6/14/2022 at 12:06 PM, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

 

For example, you've said twice now that: "using build templates is p2w because people who buy gems can buy more templates", as if pulling out your credit card and buying gems with USD were the only way to unlock extra build templates, when in reality you can just transmute in-game gold into gems. Build templates are certainly not gated behind USD purchases. Acting & saying that they are is just misinformation.

 

While I agree it doesn't technically constitute being P2W due to gem to gold conversion, it's a pretty major investment that's hard to harmonize with the general idea behind sPvP. It seems designed to be separate of any real character/account progression besides the Elite Specs. You can select the amulate/runes and the weapons you require can be bought for a couple of silver.