Giving those using infantile raid mode full rewards is a huge punch in the gut from anet to their hardcore players

[Caliboom.3218]

"Dude, you're just making hyperbolic statements!"

I'm speaking from experience. I tried raiding by joining some raid groups without a KP requirement (since, you know, you can't get KP if you don't raid in the first place and you can't raid without KP so it's a vicious cycle) and in most of the squads I joined, there was at least one guy being toxic, and there were also cases of the squad disbanding. A few things to note:

- I did read a guide beforehand before doing the raids so I had an idea of what I was supposed to do.

- My DPS was decent, at least by raid standards.

- My gear and build were appropriate.

- I have raid experience in another MMO and I'm a quick learner.

But sure, guys, I'm totally saying "hyperboles". /s

Edited July 14, 2022 by Caliboom.3218

[Linken.6345]

8 minutes ago, Caliboom.3218 said:

"Dude, you're just making hyperbolic statements!"

I'm speaking from experience. I tried raiding by joining some raid groups without a KP requirement (since, you know, you can't get KP if you don't raid in the first place and you can't raid without KP so it's a vicious cycle) and in most of the squads I joined, there was at least one guy being toxic, and there were also cases of the squad disbanding. A few things to note:

- I did read a guide beforehand before doing the raids so I had an idea of what I was supposed to do.

- My DPS was decent, at least by raid standards.

- My gear and build were appropriate.

- I have raid experience in another MMO and I'm a quick learner.

But sure, guys, I'm totally saying "hyperboles". /s

Then you either make your own no kp squad or join one of the many training guilds that do squads over the week.

You dont try to force yourself into a squad that want killptoff.

[Sobx.1758]

16 hours ago, Wintermute.5408 said:

It doesn't matter whether you agree that it's fine or not. Raid selling is reality. Within said reality, there are no grounds to give a kitten if bunch of noobs actually get to clear an "easy mode" raid and get rewards for it. And "easy" should really be put in quotations, because, thinking on it, Emboldened will make Statues of Grenth so much fun...

He's clearly commenting on people's opinions within this thread in both cases, so yes, it does matter. The same people can disagree with acheivements being available in easy modes AND disagree with raids being sold. Meanwhile that poster -as well as you- is just trying to dismiss one thing, because the other "apparently is fine". Except... No. That's just the attempt at making a strawman that's also just false.

[Sobx.1758]

17 hours ago, Caliboom.3218 said:

"N-No, you don't understand, the things people say about raiders being elitists are just fairy tales, they're spreading those things for no reason! They just dislike raiders!"

Just admit that a large part of raiders are extremely toxic, makes things easier for everyone. No amount of coping is gonna change that.

That's mostly false, it's rather clear you're trying to talk about content you're not even participating in. That's the type of weird fearmongering we've been talking about right above your post in this thread, huh.

9 hours ago, Labjax.2465 said:

"A large part" might be overstating it on their part, but they were responding to the context of people who are dismissive of elitism existing at all. Thus "just admit it, makes things easier for everyone." If you'd caught that, maybe you wouldn't have tried to ridicule them and played the part of a toxic raider in the process.

Maybe you haven't noticed how some people in this community try to talk about elitism like it never actually happens

...who even said it never happens? Why are you bringing your own spin on these posts claiming they said something they didn't? 🙄

6 hours ago, Labjax.2465 said:

Um, really you're asking who? The person you were replying to when you made "a hyperbolic statement opposite to his"

Pretty sure he knows who he was responding to and the question here is about "...the context of people who are dismissive of elitism existing at all."

I didn't see this claim either (neither here nor in the previous thread you brought it up in btw), hence the question.

Edited July 14, 2022 by Sobx.1758

[Wintermute.5408]

5 hours ago, Sobx.1758 said:

He's clearly commenting on people's opinions within this thread in both cases, so yes, it does matter. The same people can disagree with acheivements being available in easy modes AND disagree with raids being sold. Meanwhile that poster -as well as you- is just trying to dismiss one thing, because the other "apparently is fine". Except... No. That's just the attempt at making a strawman that's also just false.

Ok, let me try one last time. After that, I swear, I'll give up replying.

Our unfortunate conversation chain started with argument on raid legendary collections. Not full legendary craft - collections. For some reason, you attribute a lot of "sense of pride and accomplishment" to those collections. The case with said sense is, usually, the feeling of exclusivity and being better than those lowly scrubs. However, let's examine the ways by which you could get those unlocks before the "infantile" mode even was a thing.

1)You could get hardcarried, while being actual bottom-feeding trash. I've run my share of wildly different trainings, and often we had a guy that clearly didn't "deserve" the unlock from Xera or even Dhuum. They still got them, legit way, because that's the rules setup by anet for most of those collections.

2)You could ask your friends/guildies to do the same carrying for you because you're just good friends. Surely that's a "legit" way to get unlock, that doesn't involve either blatant leeching or price tag? 

3)You could just buy a carry run. Which - big news - is also perfectly within the game rules, and there is no viable enforcement to be made against it. Even if anet goes kitten mode and bans raid selling - what's going to stop me from randomly gifting a guild with mystic coins, and then them randomly deciding to invite me for a run?

4)Then there is a case of just dying during the boss fight, without intent, as normal people do from time to time.

Now, tell me, did any of those ways to get collection unlocks diminish your sense of pride and accomplishment? Oh, they did? Too bad I guess, because all of them are perfectly legit, while demanding close to 0 effort from person doing them. Less effort than emboldened mode does. Do bear in mind, that those collections actually require full clears from them, one way or the other. They WILL kill Deimos, Xera and Dhuum, or they won't get kitten from respective collections. And they WILL learn mechanics, which is the endgame of this whole thing.

You are asking to punish people who were scared away from raiding to begin with, because they "aren't worthy" or something. Yet there are so many ways to get the very same things with even less effort it's not even funny. Or do you think you personally are in position to dictate who gets what in the raid based on their "effort"? Sorry m8, you're playing a wrong MMO then.

And yes, disabling achievements is punishment, which would set up amazing starting ground for newbs if people like OP had their way. "Oh, you cleared all 7 wings in emboldened mode? Still not good enough for big boy raiding, you casual trash, gtfo and get REAL 69 thousand KP". Yay.

[Wolfb.7025]

Give CotM to those who disables Emboldened Mode.

[Daniyyel.3428]

On 7/12/2022 at 3:32 PM, Fueki.4753 said:

You got it backwards.

Raid sellers are the ones being upset, now that their market is shrinking, because less players have to rely on sell runs.

it was sarcasm. of course they are.

[Biziut.3594]

On 7/14/2022 at 10:53 PM, Wintermute.5408 said:

Ok, let me try one last time. After that, I swear, I'll give up replying.

Our unfortunate conversation chain started with argument on raid legendary collections. Not full legendary craft - collections. For some reason, you attribute a lot of "sense of pride and accomplishment" to those collections. The case with said sense is, usually, the feeling of exclusivity and being better than those lowly scrubs. However, let's examine the ways by which you could get those unlocks before the "infantile" mode even was a thing.

1)You could get hardcarried, while being actual bottom-feeding trash. I've run my share of wildly different trainings, and often we had a guy that clearly didn't "deserve" the unlock from Xera or even Dhuum. They still got them, legit way, because that's the rules setup by anet for most of those collections.

2)You could ask your friends/guildies to do the same carrying for you because you're just good friends. Surely that's a "legit" way to get unlock, that doesn't involve either blatant leeching or price tag? 

3)You could just buy a carry run. Which - big news - is also perfectly within the game rules, and there is no viable enforcement to be made against it. Even if anet goes kitten mode and bans raid selling - what's going to stop me from randomly gifting a guild with mystic coins, and then them randomly deciding to invite me for a run?

4)Then there is a case of just dying during the boss fight, without intent, as normal people do from time to time.

Now, tell me, did any of those ways to get collection unlocks diminish your sense of pride and accomplishment? Oh, they did? Too bad I guess, because all of them are perfectly legit, while demanding close to 0 effort from person doing them. Less effort than emboldened mode does. Do bear in mind, that those collections actually require full clears from them, one way or the other. They WILL kill Deimos, Xera and Dhuum, or they won't get kitten from respective collections. And they WILL learn mechanics, which is the endgame of this whole thing.

You are asking to punish people who were scared away from raiding to begin with, because they "aren't worthy" or something. Yet there are so many ways to get the very same things with even less effort it's not even funny. Or do you think you personally are in position to dictate who gets what in the raid based on their "effort"? Sorry m8, you're playing a wrong MMO then.

And yes, disabling achievements is punishment, which would set up amazing starting ground for newbs if people like OP had their way. "Oh, you cleared all 7 wings in emboldened mode? Still not good enough for big boy raiding, you casual trash, gtfo and get REAL 69 thousand KP". Yay.

And what exacly are You trying to prove here? That only becouse there are easy ways to get achivs with less or no effort than we should add even more of them?Oh what a great idea, why even bothering with raiding thats stressing the poor players that just want to play a game mode but actually don't want to play a game mode. Let's just send everyone a mails with Lege armor (the shiny one of course), Oblivion, bag of gold and maybe a latte.

Just becouse you already threw rubbish to the forest doesn't mean you should do it again.

Edit: Before you go all wild eyed hysteria on me than know I am supporting idea of easy mode for raids. Just not in this form.

Edited July 15, 2022 by Biziut.3594