Quickness Herald doesn't work

[LucianTheAngelic.7054]

29 minutes ago, khawki.4205 said:

There is always room for improvement 😉 cough, hammer rework, cough But I'm positive that Anet is taking herald in right direction. We shall see in next balance patch. (I'd personally love some integration of condi in herald traits as it's mostly boons or strike dmg)

They really ought to just make all of Herald’s damage boosts “all damage boosts” instead of just Strike Damage since Herald already supports condi somewhat otherwise through Elements/Song of the Mists 

[The Boz.2038]

Autoattacking the boss in rare soldier gear is "viable".

[Angesombre.4630]

13 hours ago, khawki.4205 said:

Quickness herald does work.

First of all, heal variant is awesome, providing more healing than hfb and bringing very strong projectal block while also beeing easy to play (also, range is nice bonus, way easier to give quick in pugs where people spread more). Yes, it doesn't bring stab if you don't bring jalis. But hey, that's great desing, you need to decide between more healing + block or stab and dmg reduction.

 

As for DPS variant. There is so much possibility here! And you don't need high boon duration either. You can actually run it on full bersersker gear, so if you go to lfg and they ask for quick instead of dps... you change one trait! With this you're also not forced to go "glint shiro". You spend more time in glint (but you also have energy to actually use your weapon skills other than sword 2), and you can take any legend as 2nd depending on fight. Need block? ventari. Need stab? jalis. Need boonstrip? mallyx.

 

Yes, you lose dps compared to blue warriors. But with how many paths you have open and how great desing of it is... I'd say it's great change.

If for quickness you take harbinger he just has to throw an elixir or put the shroud, the scrapper just has to use these drones and in addition gives good advantage where he too with can put a bubble, less long ok but still, barriere, super speed, stealth... finally we will have understood and the FB that I tested even if I am not an expert on it just has to put stability or egid. Even elementalist has just to throw its overloads.

In all this there is no compromise. For the revenant we have to consume our buffs which requires either to keep but take very little quickness or throw all our skills to have a very small time. With an increase of CD of 2 competence has 15s of CD. I don't see where this is better, and the time is just 2s for quickness. I can't see where it's better.

[Angesombre.4630]

As someone said, it doesn't work anymore on switch of legend.

Edited July 28, 2022 by Angesombre.4630

[ArthurDent.9538]

6 hours ago, LucianTheAngelic.7054 said:

They really ought to just make all of Herald’s damage boosts “all damage boosts” instead of just Strike Damage since Herald already supports condi somewhat otherwise through Elements/Song of the Mists 

And then the boosts all get nerfed to hell since condi herald actually is around the same level as power herald for dps and would then become actually good. No thanks.

[soul.9651]

8 minutes ago, ArthurDent.9538 said:

And then the boosts all get nerfed to hell since condi herald actually is around the same level as power herald for dps and would then become actually good. No thanks.

Lol "if they will buff the spec it will be meta and definetely gonna get nerfed" looks at mechanists and firebrands (and for how long hfb is already here again?)

[soul.9651]

And hey one more thing, seeing them adding aegis to warrior, when are u gonna add aegis to herald anet? To make it fair (looks at shield skills)

[khawki.4205]

2 hours ago, soul.9651 said:

And hey one more thing, seeing them adding aegis to warrior, when are u gonna add aegis to herald anet? To make it fair (looks at shield skills)

Idk if aegis is needed, and giving more classes access to specific boon just because other class got it feel just...weird.

As for shield: Shield 4 is already very useful and has low cost. Only shield 5 is selfish, but helps when you tank. Only thing I would love is updating heal on shield 5 to pulse 5 target barrier instead. That way we can have skill that rewards knowing bosses (quick example, using it when VG green is incoming)

[soul.9651]

18 minutes ago, khawki.4205 said:

Idk if aegis is needed, and giving more classes access to specific boon just because other class got it feel just...weird.

As for shield: Shield 4 is already very useful and has low cost. Only shield 5 is selfish, but helps when you tank. Only thing I would love is updating heal on shield 5 to pulse 5 target barrier instead. That way we can have skill that rewards knowing bosses (quick example, using it when VG green is incoming)

I mean i would like to cover aegis for my sub group at deimos for example or at some fract cms too with the quickness herald but again others can cover it aswell. Thing is fb, mech, chrono, and i think even harb technicly has it plus warrior gonna have aegis aswell, anet just might aswell give it to the rest of the supps at this point.

[khawki.4205]

14 minutes ago, soul.9651 said:

I mean i would like to cover aegis for my sub group at deimos for example or at some fract cms too with the quickness herald but again others can cover it aswell. Thing is fb, mech, chrono, and i think even harb technicly has it plus warrior gonna have aegis aswell, anet just might aswell give it to the rest of the supps at this point.

I don't think thier intention is to give it to all supports. Warrior change is cool because you can stick it on pure dps when needed, adapt, when your group lacks something. I think herald should not have access to aegis simply so you don't overpack it like guardians. For your deimos example, I think that aegis should be provided by other player, maybe by dps (dragonhunter can do it, now warriors as well...). Packing everything on one class makes cooperation less important.

Edit: Or give Herald access to aegis, but on trait that has to be chosen over another important trait. Maybe on Elevated Comapssion. I know that it would no longer provide quickness then. But that's the point, isn't it? Meaningful choices.

Edited July 28, 2022 by khawki.4205

[soul.9651]

23 minutes ago, khawki.4205 said:

I don't think thier intention is to give it to all supports. Warrior change is cool because you can stick it on pure dps when needed, adapt, when your group lacks something. I think herald should not have access to aegis simply so you don't overpack it like guardians. For your deimos example, I think that aegis should be provided by other player, maybe by dps (dragonhunter can do it, now warriors as well...). Packing everything on one class makes cooperation less important.

Edit: Or give Herald access to aegis, but on trait that has to be chosen over another important trait. Maybe on Elevated Comapssion. I know that it would no longer provide quickness then. But that's the point, isn't it? Meaningful choices.

I mean i would agree with that if role compresion wasnt a thing in the current meta, rn supps just have to be overpacked, or at least its looking this way just because how hfb and heal mech are overtuned at the moment, and if they nerfed those then i would agree with you.

[The Boz.2038]

22 minutes ago, khawki.4205 said:

I don't think thier intention is to give it to all supports.

If it isn't, it is a fail at the start.

The standard healer now offers:

• 100% uptime of Alacrity or Quickness
• ~100% uptime of Fury
• ~20+ stacks of Might
• Aegis and/or Stability on demand, minimum once every 30 seconds
• ~75% uptime on Vigor, Regeneration, Protection, Swiftness
• Good burst and over time healing capabilities
• Ability to cleanse conditions, at least 3 every 10 seconds

The heal Herald fails so hard it doesn't even tick three of those boxes, no matter how you combine your legends.
It is """"viable"""" the same way autoattacking in Soldier gear is viable.
Sure, you can do it, if your team tolerates your presence and compensates your flaws generously.

Don't do it.

 

"But it's so well designed, you need to make trade-offs!"
The others do not need to make trade-offs. The option is clearly below the accepted standard. Do better.

[khawki.4205]

1 hour ago, The Boz.2038 said:

If it isn't, it is a fail at the start.

The standard healer now offers:

• 100% uptime of Alacrity or Quickness
• ~100% uptime of Fury
• ~20+ stacks of Might
• Aegis and/or Stability on demand, minimum once every 30 seconds
• ~75% uptime on Vigor, Regeneration, Protection, Swiftness
• Good burst and over time healing capabilities
• Ability to cleanse conditions, at least 3 every 10 seconds

The heal Herald fails so hard it doesn't even tick three of those boxes, no matter how you combine your legends.
It is """"viable"""" the same way autoattacking in Soldier gear is viable.
Sure, you can do it, if your team tolerates your presence and compensates your flaws generously.

Don't do it.

 

"But it's so well designed, you need to make trade-offs!"
The others do not need to make trade-offs. The option is clearly below the accepted standard. Do better

So it isn't viable because it isn't same as every other healer? It gives less in some places and more in others, that's diversity. And again, I never said it is stronger. As for comparison to AA in soldier's... Really? I consider something viable when you can use it in group content like strikes and raids and clear it consistently. And you can.

1 hour ago, soul.9651 said:

I mean i would agree with that if role compresion wasnt a thing in the current meta, rn supps just have to be overpacked, or at least its looking this way just because how hfb and heal mech are overtuned at the moment, and if they nerfed those then i would agree with you.

Yeah, fair point. I guess we just differ in point of view. I'd prefer not overpacking, you want to bring Herald closer to meta. And I believe there is middle ground somewhere between.

[The Boz.2038]

33 minutes ago, khawki.4205 said:

and more in others

Irrelevant or outright false. Try and prove otherwise, please. I got my popcorn ready.

34 minutes ago, khawki.4205 said:

I consider something viable when you can use it in group content like strikes and raids and clear it consistently.

You can do that with Soldier's AA. So long as someone compensates for your crap output. Just like you can "support" as a Herald, so long as someone brings the heals, or the aegistab, or the boons.

[khawki.4205]

3 minutes ago, The Boz.2038 said:

Irrelevant or outright false. Try and prove otherwise, please. I got my popcorn ready.

More radius on boons, strongest regen in game, mobile block, ease of use, 100% prot uptime.

I make training runs for raids and strikes. Played both hfb and heal herald, and from my experience, it was easier to keep everyone alive when playing herald, because of mentioned things.

One last time, it isn't strongest, and it isn't meta, but it's viable and has it use, especially when team isn't organized as much

[The Boz.2038]

2 minutes ago, khawki.4205 said:

More radius on boons, strongest regen in game, mobile block, ease of use, 100% prot uptime.

Irrelevant, eh okay, yay for tanking, outright false, costly as all hell (and not unique, either).

2 minutes ago, khawki.4205 said:

it's viable and has it use, especially when team isn't organized as much

A disorganized team would be better served with a better pick, not a worse one.

[khawki.4205]

10 minutes ago, The Boz.2038 said:

 disorganized team would be better served with a better pick, not a worse one.

You're missing the point. Things I mentioned help keep team alive. And you'll say that so does aegis, but aegis makes you skip mechanics, which isn't good for learning.

[The Boz.2038]

If you use Aegis to skip mechanics *everyone* in **every** PUG skips anyway, then you are teaching them how the raid is played.
And you're also teaching them how to even do Deimos CM, too!
 

[khawki.4205]

49 minutes ago, The Boz.2038 said:

If you use Aegis to skip mechanics *everyone* in **every** PUG skips anyway, then you are teaching them how the raid is played.
And you're also teaching them how to even do Deimos CM, too!
 

In 250 li PUG, yes, it's getting skipped... But with people just starting I think it is better to show them that they need to dodge or jump over that wave on HT. But that's just my view on learning.

[ScottBroChill.3254]

I just think it's stupid you have to burn your utility skills for quickness and don't even use them strategically for their active effects. Same thing for alacrity tempest. There's no reactive gameplay in that, it's just burning skills for some secondary effect. Bad design in my book. 

[Uete.3805]

Going back to the quickness duration, I think the 2 sec mark is based on mixmaxing mentality. Can you keep up 100% quickness uptime with 100% boon duration using your 5 facets? Sure! Is it fun or allows for strategic gameplay? Meh... For me it sure is not.

I think it'd be more fun if you could keep your heal or big CC Elite skill or stunbreak for those occasions when those are needed, rather than wasting them to provide quickness uptime on a perfect rotation. To do that I think it'd be better to increase the base quickness duration to 2.5 seconds in PvE and to unnerf Facet of Elements back to 10 seconds (or even 12, so that you could use it twice before changing legends, at least with alacrity). You will still sacrifice some of your utility to do so, but not your entire Dragon Stance kit and that feels more fun to play to me.

[Dahkeus.8243]

19 hours ago, soul.9651 said:

Idk it still needs more quickness, more dps would be nice too just to get in line with the rest quickness appliers and that might be it. Again i agree its viable rn but it does need some QoL buffs and again give us more dps plz ;-;

For heal, the quickness is very forgiving with lots of easy uptime since you can easily have so much concentration in harriers.  I’ve never felt that quickness was restrictive in that build, even when I save the elite for breakbars.  
 

The DPS variants are definitely more restrictive since your gear is set to use as little concentration as is absolutely necessary.

 

I still think the heal build is heavily under-rated.  It does trade off more for stab, but you are still very capable without centaur because of the two weapon sets with heals and the condi cleanse on dodge.  

[soul.9651]

3 minutes ago, Dahkeus.8243 said:

For heal, the quickness is very forgiving with lots of easy uptime since you can easily have so much concentration in harriers.  I’ve never felt that quickness was restrictive in that build, even when I save the elite for breakbars.  
 

The DPS variants are definitely more restrictive since your gear is set to use as little concentration as is absolutely necessary.

 

I still think the heal build is heavily under-rated.  It does trade off more for stab, but you are still very capable without centaur because of the two weapon sets with heals and the condi cleanse on dodge.  

I mean iv seen heal variant at fract cms and t4s performing rly nicely with a good quickness upkeep,plus the superspeed from it felt rly nice aswell for the mobility of the whole party, the other boons were ok aswell, the cc definetely is where it shines  so it is underrated for sure at the moment, but again if you compare it with HAM and hfb (and with good players who knows what they are doing on that class) those 2 meta healers rn are still far superior and way overstacked with their kit. And if its not equal people are just always gonna pick the better option.

As for dps variant i just dont see it beeing picked over qfb at the current meta.

Idk overall i think the same what i said before xd QoL buffs for heal herald and dps (+more quickness uptime) for dps variant is needed. That or either nerf other stuff to make the balance more fair.

[LucianTheAngelic.7054]

3 hours ago, ScottBroChill.3254 said:

I just think it's stupid you have to burn your utility skills for quickness and don't even use them strategically for their active effects. Same thing for alacrity tempest. There's no reactive gameplay in that, it's just burning skills for some secondary effect. Bad design in my book. 

Yeah this is part of the problem. The build would probably feel less spammy if it provided quickness on activation of a facet in addition to the consume effect. Perhaps 1s of quickness on activation, 2s on use. That would seem fair to me and you could actually use the passive facet effect for longer 

Edited July 28, 2022 by LucianTheAngelic.7054

[ScottBroChill.3254]

8 hours ago, LucianTheAngelic.7054 said:

Yeah this is part of the problem. The build would probably feel less spammy if it provided quickness on activation of a facet in addition to the consume effect. Perhaps 1s of quickness on activation, 2s on use. That would seem fair to me and you could actually use the passive facet effect for longer 

or just have it on a one button press and not have to worry about it