Can Mirage finally have its 2nd dodge back?

[Xaylin.1860]

27 minutes ago, Waffles.5632 said:

Where as, let's say on a stealthed thief vs mirage, the mirage can literally just wait for thief opener and it doesnt even matter if CC lands, the mirage cloak cannot be stopped. So the thief has to anticipate when the Mirage is going to, if they are even going to MC by either throwing out a low initiative bait ability, or some other tactic to delay burst until after MC. They cannot just wait forever since stealth has a limit.

Sure. But to pick up the Guard example: The first hit will remove Aegis. And then the Guard could still hit F3 on many builds. Again, I'm not denying that MC is great. But it is not like there aren't similar plays on other professions.

 

32 minutes ago, Waffles.5632 said:

I usually get around 3-4 Mirage Dodges during a ~20 sec fight

Base endurance regen is 5 per s if I remember correctly. That's 2 dodges via regen plus 1 in case you have started with full endurance. With 100% Vigor uptime you should be able to squeeze out a 4th dodge.

Now, this the point where it is important that all those dodges will have to be used for both, offense and defense. 😉

 

39 minutes ago, Waffles.5632 said:

We do disagree because, at least for me, I view Mirage Mobility as in addition to blink, not as a substitute.

In pvp I run Illusionary Ambush, Blink, Jaunt. Last utitlity I swap as needed, sometimes I go decoy, mantra of distraction, etc.

I guess we do indeed have different preferences. I usually can't get myself to pick more than one stunbreak or port. 

 

40 minutes ago, Waffles.5632 said:

I would like to know how you place the dodges as well if that is okay, since I know vindi gets 3 different versions, for Mirages I feel there's only infinite horizon now lol I can't think of any builds that use the other two traits, but I don't wvw so maybe there's a roamer spec or something.

Well... there is an easy fix for the boon one. Make it apply Alacrity to nearby allies when gaining MC plus one additional choice on Ambush based on weapon - this way Staff could remain the Alacrity stick but it would be easier to not play Staff/Staff. Elusive Mind could need a slight buff as well to compete but it could basically be anything that provides sustain.

That being said: I still see Mirrors as biggest issue. Mirrors especially on Deceptions result in Mirages having a very high variance in MC access. Which makes it difficult to balance different builds. An easy fix for Desert Distortion would be making it default and work like CS. 1s Distortion plus Mirrors per Illusions. However, this is just my personal opinion. Many Mesmer mains dislike alterations to F4 because Distortion is so powerful. But for Deceptions, the only solution I see is removing Mirrors from them.

 

Sigh. Still salty that MC is basically a reskinned Distortion.

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

MC is an evade, distortion is an invuln...is that so hard to grasp?

 

There are tons of skills with an evade imbued. There are tons of dodges that do damage. If MC got someone so mad that person should go eat a bag of dicks. 

Edited July 8, 2022 by Lincolnbeard.1735

[Xaylin.1860]

I'm aware of the difference. No reason to get agitated... It doesn't change the fact that we didn't really need a new effect for Mirage.

[Waffles.5632]

1 hour ago, Xaylin.1860 said:

That being said: I still see Mirrors as biggest issue. Mirrors especially on Deceptions result in Mirages having a very high variance in MC access. Which makes it difficult to balance different builds. An easy fix for Desert Distortion would be making it default and work like CS. 1s Distortion plus Mirrors per Illusions. However, this is just my personal opinion. Many Mesmer mains dislike alterations to F4 because Distortion is so powerful. But for Deceptions, the only solution I see is removing Mirrors from them.

Thank you, I'm glad we reached several agreements, and this convo given me some good insight I feel too. I can see more of your perspective on things.

I quoted the above because this where I might disagree, but I am unsure myself. On one hand, I do love mirrors, at least the idea/concept of them. On the other hand, I wish they did more, or were easier to lay out.

It's so random now that yeah. I make it work in pvp, but I don't feel they're that impactful outside of a few situations where I was like yessss, my mirrors worked. But it was like thank god I got lucky feeling not a oh wow I was skillful with my mirrors feeling.

 

And I also am heavily cautious about changing F4 on mirage because w/o distortion mirage would become unplayable in pvp. I am not against changing it, It just has to be of equal or greater value which atm well... yes let's just see how anet handles this. >_>

We are getting core weapon buffs, but I'm still sus.

[Xaylin.1860]

1 hour ago, Waffles.5632 said:

It's so random now that yeah. I make it work in pvp, but I don't feel they're that impactful outside of a few situations where I was like yessss, my mirrors worked. But it was like thank god I got lucky feeling not a oh wow I was skillful with my mirrors feeling.

They certainly are pretty and fit the theme of Mirage of fata morganas. However, drop and pick up mechanics are just very situational in a game like GW2 where you are forced to move. Which is exactly why things like you described happen. 

Which brings me back to the accessibility of MC rather than the effect itself. As mentioned earlier, the current set up (MC on dodge baseline, MC via Desert Distortion and Deceptions optional) creates a huge variance in how much MC a Mirage can have. Which is very imbalanced considering that Ambushes and 4 out of 9 traits (5 if you count Riddle of Sand) need MC to work. This is not the case for DrD or Vindicator.

Edited July 8, 2022 by Xaylin.1860

[semak.7481]

8 hours ago, Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

MC is an evade, distortion is an invuln...is that so hard to grasp?

 

There are tons of skills with an evade imbued. There are tons of dodges that do damage. If MC got someone so mad that person should go eat a bag of dicks. 

Savage. Cmc is having a great breakfast everyday!

Ofc invul != evade. When you have invul you are cannot be hit with anything or damaged, while evading, you can, simple as that.

Edited July 8, 2022 by semak.7481

[SugarJohnson.4596]

The only unfair thing is stomping and being able to MC in my opinion. You can discuss as long as you want but Power Mirage was an very fair duel and made the perfect equivalent to thief.

 

I wonder if it is really this hard to deny MC while stomping as they said or if it’s just pure laziness and incompetence. After the recent events I tend to trust my feelings…

[Moody Soul.5617]

On 7/6/2022 at 7:53 PM, Salt Mode.3780 said:

I mean this isn't a buff or nerf vindicator threat, it is a mirage having 2 dodge thread. Vindicator is an example of one dodge as an indication that mirage most likely will never have it's 2 dodge back, but in comparison Vindicator dodge is much more effective because the class was made with one dodge in mind rather then having 2 dodge in mind then taking one away.

If you were to read all my response I made in this thread, and the responses to the very first one, you’d understand why I was talking about vindicator in a mirage thread….

[Hot Boy.7138]

i'd come back to play if they gave mirage back their second dodge. 

[Tseison.4659]

I mean If the reason why they nerfed mirage from 2 dodge to 1 is because of people complaining about it because of stomping while invuln, then I definitely suggest they bring back the “no downstate” effect for WvW and I guess have that in PvP too.

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

1 hour ago, Tseison.4659 said:

I mean If the reason why they nerfed mirage from 2 dodge to 1 is because of people complaining about it because of stomping while invuln, then I definitely suggest they bring back the “no downstate” effect for WvW and I guess have that in PvP too.

That wasn't the reason. 

Dodge was nerfed because the self-entitled "knowledgeable community" suggested that mirage should only have one dodge. 

Just like every other nerf mesmer got in that time period, every single nerf can be traced back to the forums. 

[Tseison.4659]

3 hours ago, Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

That wasn't the reason. 

Dodge was nerfed because the self-entitled "knowledgeable community" suggested that mirage should only have one dodge. 

Just like every other nerf mesmer got in that time period, every single nerf can be traced back to the forums. 

Lol well that’s not surprising 😂