Is....is SA deadeye really dead now? Did something actually good happen with this patch?

[Salt Mode.3780]

9 hours ago, MarkBecks.6453 said:

You clearly have missed the point, and that is that Anet took 4 seconds of dodge roll, and reduced it to 1 second without any explanation, or patch notes, or reason. Forget SA and all the other traits and skills, Deadeye rifle is a SPECIALIST BUILD that has nothing to do with anything else they did, NOTHING, its only pertinent to Deadeye Rifle and this change if you run SB, pistol pistol, nulifies the skillset for rifle. I understand I can tweak all the other skills, equip a SB, equip a staff, but then that's not a kitten deadeye is it, its just your average thief or whatever. I didnt make leggy stuff for my deadeye and spend hours honing it and working with it to get the best balance to get the carpet pulled from under my feet without at least an explanation, thats all I have been asking.

March 05, 2019

The duration of stealth that this trait grants has been reduced from 3 seconds to 1 second in PvP and WvW.

 

This was 3 years ago....if there was a change on my main class, I would know immediately not 3 years AFTER, esp not because of SA changes.

[Sahne.6950]

20 hours ago, Khenzy.9348 said:

kitten, this reads like an add, and a false one at that. 

You not only don't beat Celestial Harbinger with this build, you wouldn't even be able to lower their HP below 90%. And what's worse, you're not tanking one celestial harbinger, much less two of them. Their damage coeficients are ridiculously high while doing hybrid damage, it's the perfect celestial spec.

They also have perma protection, then when Death's Carapace stacks start rolling in and with 25 might stacks, which they will have easily 100% of the time, they have like 3300 armor, 2900 power and 1800 condi damage all while they heal 500 to 600 health per second with Blight stacks AND all the while having 70 to 90% weakness uptime on you. A single Celestial Harbinger is going to roflstomp you while he/she laughs at you trying to damage him/her with your puny 2 to 3k damage Sneak Attacks every 3 seconds. 

A Celestial Virtuoso with runes of the defender alone is going to absolutely laugh at your damage as well.

You're not ever going to beat a properly played and geared Soulbeast with this build either, ever.

You don't seem to have proper game knowledge or experience to make these blunt affirmations. Or you just fought inexperienced players and based your statements on that alone.

 

 🥺 a non-believer. Cant lower the hp of a harb below 90%...... how can you say that without ever seeing or trying the build :DD TRY THE BUILD!.... youd be surprised how much damage it actually does.

also your informations are pretty off... there is no way on earth a harbinger is sitting at 25 might permanently, without running aristocracy rune. Even If they run aristocracy rune... they struggle to maintain more than 20 stacks consistently. The only way they can maintain 25 stacks for a long duration is with Aristocracy AND elixir of risk, which is 2 things most harbs dont run. If they run antitoxin, which most celeharbs run, they wont have might AT ALL, except for 5 seconds during the eliteelixir. Simple as that. They do NOT reach the power/conditiondamage numbers that you pointed out. UNLESS THEY RUN ARISTOCRACY AND ELIXIR OF RISK.... which they most likely wont run, because speed or antitoxin are better choices. Your everyday Celeharbingerbuilds from metabattle.com or guildjen.com for example are sitting at a wh00ping ZERO MIGHT!

You saying:  "25 might stacks, which they will have easily 100% of the time🤡" already tells me alot...

The thing with celeharbinger is... you have to choose between one of those 3 runes.   Aristocracy=might|Antitoxin=good cleansing|Speed=good mobility....    BUT YOU CANT HAVE IT ALL. 😄

I have not yet lost to a harbinger on this build. And i have 2 mates in our duellingguild that solely main necro/harbinger. we had a shitton of fights and i have not lost a single one of those.

Harbinger can not touch this build. I AM DEAD SERIOUS! This build is stupid strong and you will notice it the second you actually try it. Harbinger has no chance locking you down, it just wont happen. escapist fortitude, shadows embrace and generosity sigil keep you clean 100% and permaprotection and weakness nullifys the powerspikes. You can literally keep dodging in your shadowfields/smokescreen and pew pew them to death. You will outsustain their damage with ease! 

 NO CAP. TRY IT!

escapist fortitude ; shadows embrace ; sigil of generosity <- thanks to those 3 you will not notice their condition damage at all.

weakness , protection <- helps you nullify the powerspikes

smokescreen , Daggerstorm <- oh kitten buttons for when you fk up ; completly nullifys the harbs Damage. Should you actually manage to activate one or two extra braincells and reflect the Shroud 2 with Daggerstorm, you basicly won the fight at that point. Just steal and AA once and you got cover condis on him and can watch him die from his own torment.

You can completly dictate the pace of the engagemant with all you Stealth. Should the harb pop shroud, you instantly cast smokescreen and f1steal on them during the casttime of smokescreen to steal the quickness and stab from them and to cast the smokescreen right under them. -> "3"UNLOAD! before those nerds realized that all the projectiles didnt hit and they just wasted their float into the Stab that you stole from them and the only thing they can do now is leave shroud and swap to staff... they already lost a nice chunck of their hp. They leave shroud to atck you with staff.... but thats just tickling dmg for you... so you still keep hammering them.... *smokescreen fades*,-> they start to pistol you... but you clean the torment almost instantly...(remember on pistol they solely apply and hurt with torment and cleaning 1 condi is a walk in the park for this build) At one point they go shroud again, this time... you Daggerstorm.... B00M u reflected the 2 back on them -> steal+AA and watch them slowly tick down from that..... Do you know the best thing? there is also no way on earth they can reach high carapace stacks... they dont reach the point where they pulse protection, because your playstyle is drawnout with all the stealth and you dont take alot of successive hits.  The message here is... you have every tool in the world to deal with the shenanigans that Harbs are throwing at you. Idc if it applys to every skilllevel, but if you play with a few braincells... they are SUPER easy.

There is 2 or 3 sneaky beaky tricks that you can use to quickly turn the tides and force them to go defense. From there... its gg for them.  Even if you should find yourself on the backfoot... remember... permasuperspeed... you can kite in and out of their range and just unload your stealth attack, it makes it borderline impossible for them to fight back. should you land 2 or 3 stealthattacks without them fighting back(remember...superspeedkiting!)... suddenly you are at the advantage again. Even if they land a burst.... you dodge and go stealth and clean the complete burst just by stealth+dodging ONCE..... you open again and regenerate 4k hp back thanks to your traits....... OH W000W why am i at 100% hp again? MAGIC! Harbinger cant hurt this build AT ALL!

But i think you kinda have to see it to really grasp just how flippin sustainy this build is! we are speaking, cleansing 3-4 Condis and gaining 4k Hp per Dodge.... That is Vindicator level of sustain...VINDICATOR WITH 3 DODGES level of sustain.... while being able to stack 10+ seconds of weakness and having permaprotection.... pair that with 97% Mightduration.... and you have a pretty serious Celestial build!

are you EU? we can meet and have a few fights, so you can see whats going on. Its time to realise that the thief class has completly changed and we need to think outside of the d/p powerdaredevil box. I am telling you... THIS IS REALLY A THING!

I know its hard to grasp that a daredevil can fight a Celeharbinger.... BUT ITS TIME!!! THE FUTURE IS NOW!

Edit:  OH LOOK!!! It already made its way to metabattle!😳 https://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Daredevil_-_Celestial_P/P_Roamer

THE FUUTUURE! 😄 idk who put it there... i personally would be running the protection trait...but thats more or less what im running. Celestial Daredevil! YOU HEARD IT HERE FIRST! i will come back to this thread in a few weeks when everyone and their dog is running this in wvw... and i will /laugh 😂

Edited July 12, 2022 by Sahne.6950

[Jitters.9401]

2 hours ago, Sahne.6950 said:

I know its hard to grasp that a daredevil can fight a Celeharbinger

Are celebrating harbingers really that tough?

 

I was killing them on my dual d/d condi thief before the update and they were always a tough fight but from what you are writing it is like i was the only one who didnt know they are op.

 

 

[Sahne.6950]

45 minutes ago, Jitters.9401 said:

Are celebrating harbingers really that tough?

 

I was killing them on my dual d/d condi thief before the update and they were always a tough fight but from what you are writing it is like i was the only one who didnt know they are op.

 

 

i have no problems dealing with them tbh...  But i mainly play Slb, VentariRenegade,Specter, DE and the build right here... all of them have a pretty ez time against harb.

but to most builds Cele(brating)harbingers are like a brickwall. They cant sustain the harbs condidamage and hit like a noodle cuz of harbs weaknessspam.

Edited July 12, 2022 by Sahne.6950

[Khenzy.9348]

9 hours ago, Sahne.6950 said:

 🥺 a non-believer. Cant lower the hp of a harb below 90%...... how can you say that without ever seeing or trying the build :DD TRY THE BUILD!.... youd be surprised how much damage it actually does.

also your informations are pretty off... there is no way on earth a harbinger is sitting at 25 might permanently, without running aristocracy rune. Even If they run aristocracy rune... they struggle to maintain more than 20 stacks consistently. The only way they can maintain 25 stacks for a long duration is with Aristocracy AND elixir of risk, which is 2 things most harbs dont run. If they run antitoxin, which most celeharbs run, they wont have might AT ALL, except for 5 seconds during the eliteelixir. Simple as that. They do NOT reach the power/conditiondamage numbers that you pointed out. UNLESS THEY RUN ARISTOCRACY AND ELIXIR OF RISK.... which they most likely wont run, because speed or antitoxin are better choices. Your everyday Celeharbingerbuilds from metabattle.com or guildjen.com for example are sitting at a wh00ping ZERO MIGHT!

You saying:  "25 might stacks, which they will have easily 100% of the time🤡" already tells me alot...

The thing with celeharbinger is... you have to choose between one of those 3 runes.   Aristocracy=might|Antitoxin=good cleansing|Speed=good mobility....    BUT YOU CANT HAVE IT ALL. 😄

I have not yet lost to a harbinger on this build. And i have 2 mates in our duellingguild that solely main necro/harbinger. we had a shitton of fights and i have not lost a single one of those.

Harbinger can not touch this build. I AM DEAD SERIOUS! This build is stupid strong and you will notice it the second you actually try it. Harbinger has no chance locking you down, it just wont happen. escapist fortitude, shadows embrace and generosity sigil keep you clean 100% and permaprotection and weakness nullifys the powerspikes. You can literally keep dodging in your shadowfields/smokescreen and pew pew them to death. You will outsustain their damage with ease! 

 NO CAP. TRY IT!

escapist fortitude ; shadows embrace ; sigil of generosity <- thanks to those 3 you will not notice their condition damage at all.

weakness , protection <- helps you nullify the powerspikes

smokescreen , Daggerstorm <- oh kitten buttons for when you fk up ; completly nullifys the harbs Damage. Should you actually manage to activate one or two extra braincells and reflect the Shroud 2 with Daggerstorm, you basicly won the fight at that point. Just steal and AA once and you got cover condis on him and can watch him die from his own torment.

You can completly dictate the pace of the engagemant with all you Stealth. Should the harb pop shroud, you instantly cast smokescreen and f1steal on them during the casttime of smokescreen to steal the quickness and stab from them and to cast the smokescreen right under them. -> "3"UNLOAD! before those nerds realized that all the projectiles didnt hit and they just wasted their float into the Stab that you stole from them and the only thing they can do now is leave shroud and swap to staff... they already lost a nice chunck of their hp. They leave shroud to atck you with staff.... but thats just tickling dmg for you... so you still keep hammering them.... *smokescreen fades*,-> they start to pistol you... but you clean the torment almost instantly...(remember on pistol they solely apply and hurt with torment and cleaning 1 condi is a walk in the park for this build) At one point they go shroud again, this time... you Daggerstorm.... B00M u reflected the 2 back on them -> steal+AA and watch them slowly tick down from that..... Do you know the best thing? there is also no way on earth they can reach high carapace stacks... they dont reach the point where they pulse protection, because your playstyle is drawnout with all the stealth and you dont take alot of successive hits.  The message here is... you have every tool in the world to deal with the shenanigans that Harbs are throwing at you. Idc if it applys to every skilllevel, but if you play with a few braincells... they are SUPER easy.

There is 2 or 3 sneaky beaky tricks that you can use to quickly turn the tides and force them to go defense. From there... its gg for them.  Even if you should find yourself on the backfoot... remember... permasuperspeed... you can kite in and out of their range and just unload your stealth attack, it makes it borderline impossible for them to fight back. should you land 2 or 3 stealthattacks without them fighting back(remember...superspeedkiting!)... suddenly you are at the advantage again. Even if they land a burst.... you dodge and go stealth and clean the complete burst just by stealth+dodging ONCE..... you open again and regenerate 4k hp back thanks to your traits....... OH W000W why am i at 100% hp again? MAGIC! Harbinger cant hurt this build AT ALL!

But i think you kinda have to see it to really grasp just how flippin sustainy this build is! we are speaking, cleansing 3-4 Condis and gaining 4k Hp per Dodge.... That is Vindicator level of sustain...VINDICATOR WITH 3 DODGES level of sustain.... while being able to stack 10+ seconds of weakness and having permaprotection.... pair that with 97% Mightduration.... and you have a pretty serious Celestial build!

are you EU? we can meet and have a few fights, so you can see whats going on. Its time to realise that the thief class has completly changed and we need to think outside of the d/p powerdaredevil box. I am telling you... THIS IS REALLY A THING!

I know its hard to grasp that a daredevil can fight a Celeharbinger.... BUT ITS TIME!!! THE FUTURE IS NOW!

Edit:  OH LOOK!!! It already made its way to metabattle!😳 https://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Daredevil_-_Celestial_P/P_Roamer

THE FUUTUURE! 😄 idk who put it there... i personally would be running the protection trait...but thats more or less what im running. Celestial Daredevil! YOU HEARD IT HERE FIRST! i will come back to this thread in a few weeks when everyone and their dog is running this in wvw... and i will /laugh 😂

 

First of all, of course you're going to run Aristocracy runes on Cele Harbinger over Antitoxin (which is overkill) or Speed (you don't need them with good positioning with Worm, Spectral Walk and shroud skills), you're giving away too much damage otherwise, if you play aggressively (as you're supposed to) you spam weakness and easily achieve 25 might with ease. I already tried the spec myself.

 

As for your wall of text. You're repeating yourself. You make it sound too good on paper and I already stomped the very few P/P Darevedils I've seen on my Soulbeast. I'm not calling your build weak, I'm just dismissing your broad statements about ' easily tanking two harbingers', 'easily beating every single top roaming spec', it's almost comical.

 

But let's be honest here, Celestial is a broken set on any and all builds with decent might stacking, period.

 

Regardless of strength, the build seems fun to play as I like the P/P on thief and I'm always up for a challenge. I'm also from EU. Hit me up ingame.

 

And to not keep derailing the thread. DE is not dead at all, you have almost limitless initiative with Shadow's Rejuvenation and Malef7 is now super viable and more reliable than ever, more initiative means more options in combat, adapt fellow thieves.

[Sahne.6950]

15 hours ago, Khenzy.9348 said:

 

First of all, of course you're going to run Aristocracy runes on Cele Harbinger over Antitoxin (which is overkill) or Speed (you don't need them with good positioning with Worm, Spectral Walk and shroud skills), you're giving away too much damage otherwise, if you play aggressively (as you're supposed to) you spam weakness and easily achieve 25 might with ease. I already tried the spec myself.

 

As for your wall of text. You're repeating yourself. You make it sound too good on paper and I already stomped the very few P/P Darevedils I've seen on my Soulbeast. I'm not calling your build weak, I'm just dismissing your broad statements about ' easily tanking two harbingers', 'easily beating every single top roaming spec', it's almost comical.

 

But let's be honest here, Celestial is a broken set on any and all builds with decent might stacking, period.

 

Regardless of strength, the build seems fun to play as I like the P/P on thief and I'm always up for a challenge. I'm also from EU. Hit me up ingame.

 

And to not keep derailing the thread. DE is not dead at all, you have almost limitless initiative with Shadow's Rejuvenation and Malef7 is now super viable and more reliable than ever, more initiative means more options in combat, adapt fellow thieves.

 Aristocracy is possibly 5 might for ~8 seconds when running full cele. it has 1 sec ICD. 

The calculations are with the best possible weakness setup: Pistol / dagger+ Staff + CpC.

you have: 1)dagger 5 + 2)(Dagger 4 "transfering the weakness from CpC") + 3)pistol 3+ 4)1 weakness every 10 seconds. + 5) blasting your poisonfield.  6) lesser enfemble   -> Even when playing it pitchperfect. landing every 6 weaknessoptions perfectly exactly 1,0000 seconds after another and running CpC. you can maintain the 25 might for a wh00ping !!!!!~4 seconds!!!!. and your gonna drop to 10 might in the next 3 seconds. And from there.... you got CD..... As soon as we factor in that your passive weakness is gonna proc on a skill that already does weakness, or someone dodging one of your skills... your not gonna hit 25 at all. A aristocracy celeharb will bounce between 10 and 15 might in a real fight, but thats it.  The only thing that can possibly bring you to 25 might for longer than 10 seconds is: Elixir of risk. but i doubt you run that.

ill add you this afternoon then you can see it with your own eyes 😄

back to topic: Deadeye is stronger than ever! i have called it before the SA changes... im still convinced. WvW and especially spvp will turn into Season of the Deadeye. They get SO MUCH value when played together with the new SA support specter. We will see specter+DE in MAT! 100%!

they got double the cleanse than before and alot of free initiative. https://guildjen.com/rifle-deadeye-roaming-build/ This deadeye build is probably the strongest that Deadeye has been in a LOONG time.

Its still a mistery to me how people think that the SA changes were nerfs... they were straightup buffs for every build besides p/d core sindrener teef.

rip p/d core,   you will be missed.

Edited July 13, 2022 by Sahne.6950

[anduriell.6280]

On 7/11/2022 at 7:50 PM, Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

How did I miss that. 

Well, its not surprising. When PU granted 100% more stealth duration the main qqers were... You guessed it, thieves.

In my experience theefs and mesmers are the ones always complaining on the forums about other professions . This threads usually takes us nowhere and doesn't matter anyway, anet uses the private forums and wiki to balance the least favorite classes. 

[Sahne.6950]

*opens the "stereotype-drawer"*

*throws every Thief and Mesmer player in the same drawer*

*closes the drawer*

!!!The Forums have been saved once again!!!

thanks buddy... thanks for that!

 

Everyones complaining about everything kinda... its not just 2 professions that are "extra salty", imo.

 

Edited July 13, 2022 by Sahne.6950