Quick-Herald dps??? Where?

[SeTect.5918]

As far as I know, the full berzerker stat Herald did under 27k dps, because its not even on the benchmark Board. 

Now we got some coefficient increases but also cooldown increases...i didnt calculate it, but it should end up around the same i guess. 

However, the quickness on herald has such a low duration that u most likely can only keep it up if u permanently spam all facets with 100% quick duration. 

The full berzerker build had 8% boon duration (from trait) so how much dps will quick herald deal? 20k? At best? 

Hope it doesn't get nerfed bc we are "only" 13k dps under QFB. Like Quick Cata got nerfed to like 22-24k dps bc it was slightly above QFB. 

Balance between e specs is really a joke atm. At least the salvation changes are (mostly) good. The overall less healing is bad but at least no more healing orbs. I mean this could end up as more healing than before because none of the teammates ever ran to the healing orbs. 

However herald is still a joke. It was never good as dps and as dps+support it does far less dmg than before. At least it got quickness now. Tho might generation is also even more horrible than before. 

It us funny that players are wanting a better might generation for herald but anet Balance Team makes it even worse due to CD increases. Great...

Edited June 29, 2022 by SeTect.5918
Spelling

[The Boz.2038]

1 minute ago, SeTect.5918 said:

Now we got some coefficient increases but also cooldown increases...i didnt calculate it, but it should end up around the same i guess. 

Cooldown increase of the damage facet exceeds the damage increase.
Cooldown increase of the buff facet is not compensated for at all.
There is no buff in that department.

[SeTect.5918]

Just now, The Boz.2038 said:

Cooldown increase of the damage facet exceeds the damage increase.
Cooldown increase of the buff facet is not compensated for at all.
There is no buff in that department.

Great, even worse than i thought then.

[ArthurDent.9538]

1 hour ago, The Boz.2038 said:

Cooldown increase of the damage facet exceeds the damage increase.
Cooldown increase of the buff facet is not compensated for at all.
There is no buff in that department.

Actually I assumed that would be the case but before patch went live I did a quick bench for full dps herald (forceful persistence + notoriety) without profession specific buffs (banners, spirits, etc.) and got 27k. After patch under same conditions I was able to pull 27.5k after a few attempts with obvious room for improvement. So actually a very small relative buff in the sense all power builds got nerfed by the removal of unique buffs but you can do slightly more dps than you could without them before. Still garbage tier and the new rotation feels like kitten and is much more alacrity dependent but it was better than I expected and I really didn't test all the possible rotation options.

[The Boz.2038]

10 minutes ago, ArthurDent.9538 said:

After patch under same conditions I was able to pull 27.5k after a few attempts with obvious room for improvement.

If that was without profession buffs, it's probably because of Fury becoming +25, and the upkeep trait going to 5/15 from 4/13.

[Ahi.9673]

yeah after trying it myself yesterday I take back everything I said in the other thread - it simply doesnt work

 

full diviner / sigil of concentration (100% bd) - you can upkeep quickness...on a golem..with perfect alacrity..if you spam all consumes when they come up - while doing about 15k dps. ('fun?' fact: you might as well just camp dragon stance - easier to upkeep quickness that way. sure you lose 2k or so dps but your dps is already so low it doesnt matter anyway)

 

then I had an idea - how about condi? so I tried full ritualist with firebrand runes (100% quickness duration) . sadly, same story only the dps was slightly higher (around 18k).

 

Im sure I was not doing any sort of optimal rotations but still...

 

[Lily.1935]

I actually was playing it and I did enjoy the idea of it but its duration is way too low. If it had good duration I could swap into Jalis to drop Stability and or give allies some extra tankiness which could be quite nice but that doesn't seem possible.

I defiantly think both the duration of quickness needs to be buffed and the damage output of sword/staff needs some work. (Staff because I like roleplaying as a Dervish).

But yeah, Fun build but needs work.

[draxynnic.3719]

3 hours ago, ArthurDent.9538 said:

Actually I assumed that would be the case but before patch went live I did a quick bench for full dps herald (forceful persistence + notoriety) without profession specific buffs (banners, spirits, etc.) and got 27k. After patch under same conditions I was able to pull 27.5k after a few attempts with obvious room for improvement. So actually a very small relative buff in the sense all power builds got nerfed by the removal of unique buffs but you can do slightly more dps than you could without them before. Still garbage tier and the new rotation feels like kitten and is much more alacrity dependent but it was better than I expected and I really didn't test all the possible rotation options.

Probably due to action economy. The actual benefit of using a particular skill isn't the damage the skill deals, it's the damage the skill deals minus the damage of the autoattack you could have done in its place. A 50% longer recharge with less than 50% greater damage might still be a buff if the extra autoattacking makes up the difference.

But yeah, herald's PvE DPS needs some big boosts if it's going to be suitable for raids. That, and/or double the base quickness duration so you can keep up quickness in full berserker.

[LucianTheAngelic.7054]

7 hours ago, ArthurDent.9538 said:

Actually I assumed that would be the case but before patch went live I did a quick bench for full dps herald (forceful persistence + notoriety) without profession specific buffs (banners, spirits, etc.) and got 27k. After patch under same conditions I was able to pull 27.5k after a few attempts with obvious room for improvement. So actually a very small relative buff in the sense all power builds got nerfed by the removal of unique buffs but you can do slightly more dps than you could without them before. Still garbage tier and the new rotation feels like kitten and is much more alacrity dependent but it was better than I expected and I really didn't test all the possible rotation options.

For the Draconic Echo variant the CD increases are a loss 😕 

[Vampiremax.8350]

12 hours ago, SeTect.5918 said:

the full berzerker stat Herald did under 27k dps, because its not even on the benchmark Board.

Power herald before patch did 28k dps. 

Power herald after patch does 24k dps. 

I was thinking with damage coefficients and forceful persistance being buffed, herald was getting some validation. But the CD increases have killed my boy even more.. 

Reducing the cooldowns, even if only in pve, would be a good start. More dps, more quickness if u DE and the build will feel smoother to play. 

I feel like quickness should be applied while a dragic echo is ongoing or on applying a boon. This consume to get quickness feels so out of place... 

[Dahkeus.8243]

From SC discord:

 

 

 

 

 

[Dahkeus.8243]

I’d love to see Herald as a good option, but I just don’t see it.  The DPS option is very weak without enough utility to justify it and anything that aims for boon support just faces too many trade-offs to compete with anything else out there (besides warrior) that would potentially fill the same spot.

[ZeftheWicked.3076]

So how come no one is talking about condi quickness? Ritualist gear is right there waiting to be used ...

[SeTect.5918]

11 hours ago, Vampiremax.8350 said:

Power herald before patch did 28k dps. 

Power herald after patch does 24k dps. 

I was thinking with damage coefficients and forceful persistance being buffed, herald was getting some validation. But the CD increases have killed my boy even more.. 

Reducing the cooldowns, even if only in pve, would be a good start. More dps, more quickness if u DE and the build will feel smoother to play. 

I feel like quickness should be applied while a dragic echo is ongoing or on applying a boon. This consume to get quickness feels so out of place... 

Nope. Well yes but no. Power herald before Patch didnt deal 28k dps. Power herald before the battle scar nerf that was in may (i think) was 27800 dps. After the battle scar nerf is was most likely around 25k-27k. 

However i think we r not talking about the same Power herald. I meant the power herald build on snow crows that was with draconic echo. 

However yes the one with forceful persistance should be the numbers u r saying. 

Agree with everything u said tho.

[Ahi.9673]

4 hours ago, ZeftheWicked.3076 said:

So how come no one is talking about condi quickness? Ritualist gear is right there waiting to be used ...

 

 tried it, wasnt able to break 20k. the vitality is all wasted, unlike on certain other class that shall not be named

Im sure with a proper rotation its possible to do more but you still wont come nowhere near to a cfb so why even bother

Edited June 30, 2022 by Ahi.9673