What needs to be addressed about balance philosophy

[Cait Sith.4650]

7 hours ago, otto.5684 said:

I did not say things are great in pve, just that they are improving. And if compared to the last 3 years in PoF era, we are getting some serious improvements. However, things are not as bad as people try to paint them. No, if your build does not deal 37K+ that does not mean it is not viable. And on the support side especially, we went from 2 builds to multiple. And all support builds have been getting some serious improvements. We are not there, but in 1-2 patches we should.
 

And again, pvp balance is trash. And pvp is integral to many players. And Anet pvp balance changes have been scarce and mediocre for the last few months.

I agree with the PvP part, made even worse by the current state of Bladesworn and Dragon Trigger.

I disagree with the rest, the game is probably in its most unbalanced state ever.
Even if this data doesn't represent the total, it still represents a very relevant sample. https://gw2wingman.nevermindcreations.de/popularity

One third of the squad composition in Raids and Strikes are Mechanists. The utility of HAM and the buff to Big Boomer to further enable pMech made that possible. It's not uncommon to have 4 or more Mechanists in a squad. Even the three other most played specs, Firebrand, Virtuoso and Scourge, can't reach the same percentage when added up. When another spec dwarfs Firebrand like this, you know something is definitely wrong.

I don't think at any point during the PoF era the game was in such a state. And this without even addressing the same thing happening in open world PvE.

In the meanwhile the October balance patch is almost upon us, and the promised ArenaNet post about the profession balance philosophy/long-term vision for Guild Wars 2 profession balance is nowhere to be seen. It was mentioned at least twice in June still.

 

 

Edited September 8, 2022 by Cait Sith.4650

[Blood Red Arachnid.2493]

20 hours ago, Gibson.4036 said:

The acknowledgement that classes should not be balanced around their potential in top performing hands is great. Nice to see a core principle being articulated.

That in no way addresses the discord leak, however.

I appreciate the thorough list in the OP, but I don’t think any of it matters if it’s not clear that #21 is being aggressively addressed.

I’m not talking about any sort of discipline for the particular dev. I’d like to hear that ArenaNet leaders are taking a close and thorough look at how a culture of personal whim took root.

How did they get to the point where a dev would decide to make mace stronger than kits because he doesn’t like one of the core engie mechanics? Or buff mez staff because he doesn’t personally like using axe?

They completely swept this under the rug, which is not the sign of an organization that really sees there is a problem and is committed to addressing it.

Again, this is not at all about the individual dev. It’s about leadership, supervision, shared vision, and accountability within ArenaNet. 

It's implicit that #21 is being addressed with the formation of a balance framework.  To what degree is uncertain.  The whole situation with unnamed dev was disheartening, though.  A general thought I have regarding qualifications is if a random person off the street could do it better, then that person shouldn't have that job.  I.E if I could drive down to Lowes, pick up some random guy, and he'll do a better job balancing the game within an hour of explaining things, then whomever is in charge of balancing should be changed.  I sincerely believe it in this case, because random Lowes guy wouldn't have the personal investments that led to unnamed dev's metaphorical square hole balancing strategy:  

It is more comforting to think that bizarre actions are the result of some mastermind's scheme rather than incompetence.  

[draxynnic.3719]

23 hours ago, Hashberry.4510 said:

well the discord leak was nobodies business and really did not reveal anything that was not  already obvious. Really silly to focus on this.

The discord leak changed it from being something that was suspected, to something that was laid out for all to see.

I suspect we're not going to see a public pillorying of those in question, however much some people might want it, but reading between the lines I think there definitely has been some reduction in their freedom to act as they choose. There's evidently an increase on oversight and there's been mention of more people being added to the team, which hopefully means input from people with a wider range of biases.

[otto.5684]

18 hours ago, Angesombre.4630 said:

It's going to take more than that to show me that it's better, because it's not the small patch of August with a small up that will allow me not to see all the stupid or random modifications on the revenant for almost 3 years.

Does that include or exclude Renegade? Cuz if it excludes renegade, I agree. Including renegade, then you must have been living under a rock.

[Angesombre.4630]

1 hour ago, otto.5684 said:

Does that include or exclude Renegade? Cuz if it excludes renegade, I agree. Including renegade, then you must have been living under a rock.

August update

Revenant

For core revenant, we're improving hammer as a ranged damage option. All revenant specializations will receive damage increases from invocation trait updates.

Hammer

• Hammer Bolt: (PvE only) Damage multiplier increased from 0.95 to 1.1.
• Phase Smash: (PvE only) Damage multiplier increased from 1.75 to 2.
• Drop the Hammer: (PvE only) Damage multiplier increased from 1.5 to 2.3.

Invocation

• Rising Tide: (PvE only) Damage increase changed from 7% to 10%.
• Ferocious Aggression: (PvE only) Damage increase changed from 7% to 10%.

Herald

• Reinforced Potency: (PvE only) Bonus damage per boon increased from 1% to 1.5%.

Vindicator

Greatsword

• Mist Swing: (PvE only) Damage multiplier increased from 0.9 to 1.0.
• Mist Slash: (PvE only) Damage multiplier increased from 1.0 to 1.1.
• Arcing Mists: (PvE only) Damage multiplier increased from 1.25 to 1.3.
• Mist Unleashed: (PvE only) Damage multiplier increased from 1.9 to 2.0.
• Phantom's Onslaught: (PvE only) Damage multiplier increased from 1.5 to 1.6.
• True Strike: (PvE only) Base damage multiplier increased from 1.0 to 1.5. Damage multiplier added per blocked attack increased from 0.4 to 0.5.

 

I'm basically talking about revenant core with the changes it has known in passive mode by the torment, the resistance, the revenant has been strong thanks to the torment rune which is now nerfed, the nerf with the 2 of the hammer which has a gap between the skill and the player, why? "Forced Engagement" with a triple nerf, nerf the sigil on the switch of legend while it functions in PvP and which was a basic function of the revenant.

I'm taking broad strokes, after the best change the renegade has seen is the change to the 3 skill on the bow which was horrible at first.

I'm not even talking about the vindicator and all the nerfs it has undergone since the beta and by a single bug fix since then too.

[prototypedragon.1406]

Everything is fine anet has a plan all " The Vision" the jadebots are a hint to that vision.

[Radina.6057]

 

On 9/8/2022 at 3:03 AM, otto.5684 said:

I did not say things are great in pve, just that they are improving. And if compared to the last 3 years in PoF era, we are getting some serious improvements. However, things are not as bad as people try to paint them. No, if your build does not deal 37K+ that does not mean it is not viable. And on the support side especially, we went from 2 builds to multiple. And all support builds have been getting some serious improvements. We are not there, but in 1-2 patches we should.

Sounds like we dont have a spec that dominates DPS and Alacrity at the same time, and one spec dominating Quickness.

 

FB deals 30k dps while dropping Might, Furry, Quickness(, Aegis), and low cd Stability on his group. Meanwhile we have full DPS, no support specs that hardly reach 30k on the Golem, let alone a boss. 

Any Boon source that doesnt provide on demand Stab has a subscription to the backseat, since all the instanced content requires, or promotes the use of low cd Stab.

 

On top of that Anet planned to finish the year with a PvP focused balance Patch that would have been the last this year, according to the recent news. Really. Its not as bad as it looks at all. Everything is Mech and Creme Brulee.

Lets hope the new balance gent is less incompetent than the last.

[draxynnic.3719]

4 hours ago, Radina.6057 said:

 

Sounds like we dont have a spec that dominates DPS and Alacrity at the same time, and one spec dominating Quickness.

 

FB deals 30k dps while dropping Might, Furry, Quickness(, Aegis), and low cd Stability on his group. Meanwhile we have full DPS, no support specs that hardly reach 30k on the Golem, let alone a boss. 

Any Boon source that doesnt provide on demand Stab has a subscription to the backseat, since all the instanced content requires, or promotes the use of low cd Stab.

 

On top of that Anet planned to finish the year with a PvP focused balance Patch that would have been the last this year, according to the recent news. Really. Its not as bad as it looks at all. Everything is Mech and Creme Brulee.

Lets hope the new balance gent is less incompetent than the last.

The impression I had was that they'd intended to have PvE balance, but it got to be too much so the PvE side was pushed back to the end of November.

[Alcatraznc.3869]

4 hours ago, Radina.6057 said:

Sounds like we dont have a spec that dominates DPS and Alacrity at the same time, and one spec dominating Quickness.

 

FB deals 30k dps while dropping Might, Furry, Quickness(, Aegis), and low cd Stability on his group. Meanwhile we have full DPS, no support specs that hardly reach 30k on the Golem, let alone a boss. 

 

Full DPS such as ?

 

All the spec that reach less than 30k DPS are support DPS build like Chronomancer Quickness, Power Alac Mechanist or Condition Alac Specter (just to name a few). But there are some soec that reach / goes a bit above 30k benchmark like Power quickness Scrapper, Condition Alac Untamed or Condition quickness Berserker.

 

Pretty much all dedicated DPS spec reaches at least 30k DPS