PREVENTING DUO QUEUE AT 1600 RATING RANKED PVP

[Hooglese.4860]

I still don't know why we can't just have it so that you need to make a 5 man crew before starting. That would solve the shit-comp problem and as for the super toxic players that can't get in a team because they're assholes and throw games? Fuck em.

[Reaper Alim.4176]

@kenny leone.2973 said:

@Malediktus.9250 said:

@kenny leone.2973 said:

@Malediktus.9250 said:I really like this change, would be even better if ranked would be no duoQ at all.Please provide a compelling argument why you think it's a good change, Just saying you like it doesn't help this thread, thanks.

matchmaking can do its job better and no VOIP advantage

What does VOIP mean please? thanks

Voice over Internet Protocol ie. TS, Mumble, Discord, and such.

[Elementalist Owner.7802]

@Hooglese.4860 said:I still don't know why we can't just have it so that you need to make a 5 man crew before starting. That would solve the kitten-comp problem and as for the super toxic players that can't get in a team because they're kitten and throw games? kitten em.

There are plenty of reasons why someone might not have a team outside of "they're kitten and throw games"

[kenny leone.2973]

@Elementalist Owner.7802 said:

@kenny leone.2973 said:

@Malediktus.9250 said:I really like this change, would be even better if ranked would be no duoQ at all.Please provide a compelling argument why you think it's a good change, Just saying you like it doesn't help this thread, thanks.

Before the change, you were at a disadvantage if you solo queued. As a competitive player I was fed up seeing other players rank higher than me not because they were better players, but because they duo queued and I didn't. If you wanted ranked to be the competitive mode it was intended to be, the solution was to remove duo queue. Now the leaderboard and ratings more accurately represent individual skill level. It's not perfect by any means but this was a step forward, in my opinion.

But taking a closer look, how does a duo team give an advantage over those who solo queued? if all players across both teams are of similar ratings, those who duo queued need to cooperate with the rest of their team in order to win, I respect your opinion but I don't think it's a strong argument for this reason I've provided, ultimately it comes down to the match making doing it's job properly, if there's a DuoQ, match them with an enemy team that has a DuoQ as well, make sure people are of similar ratings etc. This is not a healthy solution but a quick and lazy one. it damages the social aspect of the game, and for an MMO, the social aspect should be priority, otherwise we should all play a single player rpg and connected to a pvp mode.

[Lujin.4621]

@kenny leone.2973 said:

Just accept the obvious FACT that premade vs random is NEVER fun since unfair for the randoms? If you want to train as a team for the tournaments, have your own dedicated server. The playerbase is not enough to split so the few people that play grouped queue will have to stop enjoying free wins. I see no problems!

[Jeknar.6184]

@Malediktus.9250 said:I really like this change, would be even better if ranked would be no duoQ at all.

I would agree with a SoloQ only if we had a 2-3-5man queue as alternative. I still find pretty stupid that I cannot play as a team on a team based mode.

[kenny leone.2973]

@Lujin.4621 said:

@kenny leone.2973 said:

Just accept the obvious FACT that premade vs random is NEVER fun since unfair for the randoms? If you want to train as a team for the tournaments, have your own dedicated server. The playerbase is not enough to split so the few people that play grouped queue will have to stop enjoying free wins. I see no problems!

How is two DuoQ in a team premade? 3 others are random and I've already provided an argument why I think it's not unfair. These responses I've seen so far are just emotional responses and are heavily biased, no statement is ever free of bias but if you offer stronger arguments that don't weigh heavily on your personal bias, that will help this thread, thanks.

[Titan.3472]

Everyone is solo in competitive pvp season matches and it is the basis on a EQUALY FAIR randomize team competition to have an accurate MMR of your PERSONNAL skill. Not too hard to understand I guess ! ^^ (So it has nothing to do with playing (or not) with friends...)

[kenny leone.2973]

@Titan.3472 said:Everyone is solo in competitive pvp season matches and it is the basis on a EQUALY FAIR randomize team competition to have an accurate MMR of your PERSONNAL skill. Not too hard to understand I guess ! ^^ (So it has nothing to do with playing (or not) with friends...)

Personal skill? it's a team based game, if anything it shows your ability to cooperate with your team, so that statement about personal skill is counter-intuitive. If it was a free-for-all game mode then that's an accurate representation of personal skill, so I believe that defence is weak. I can understand if it was a full 5 man team against a group of randoms. The reason that would be unfair because the whole team would have a superior chemistry with faster and easier communication between all members. Having a DuoQ in a team of randoms where there are 3 other people selected at random isn't an advantage because those two have to communicate with 60% of the team in other to win. Imagine if two brothers join a football team, great chemistry between them. No mater how good their communication is, if they don't cooperate and communicate tactics with the rest of the team, there probably would be a lot of confusion and would not lead to victory. Their loss isn't reflective of their ''personal skill'' but a lack teamwork. I hope I have successfully defeated this ''personal skill'' argument, fire at me if you think otherwise, thanks.

[Faux Play.6104]

@kenny leone.2973 said:Regardless of what you say about the definition of the word MMO, doesn't discredit the fact that pvp is also a community, one of the three main pillars of the game, some people still play this game just because of that and socialize there, and this new system will contribute in destroying it.

1600+ really strike me as people that play the game purely to socialize. Don't they have ATs for their social activities? They can do full 5 man there.

[Faux Play.6104]

@kenny leone.2973 said:

@Titan.3472 said:Everyone is solo in competitive pvp season matches and it is the basis on a EQUALY FAIR randomize team competition to have an accurate MMR of your PERSONNAL skill. Not too hard to understand I guess ! ^^ (So it has nothing to do with playing (or not) with friends...)

Personal skill? it's a team based game, if anything it shows your ability to cooperate with your team, so that statement about personal skill is counter-intuitive. If it was a free-for-all game mode then that's an accurate representation of personal skill, so I believe that defence is weak. I can understand if it was a full 5 man team against a group of randoms. The reason that would be unfair because the whole team would have a superior chemistry with faster and easier communication between all members. Having a DuoQ in a team of randoms where there are 3 other people selected at random isn't an advantage because those two have to communicate with 60% of the team in other to win. Imagine if two brothers join a football team, great chemistry between them. No mater how good their communication is, if they don't cooperate and communicate tactics with the rest of the team, there probably would be a lot of confusion and would not lead to victory. Their loss isn't reflective of their ''personal skill'' but a lack teamwork. I hope I have successfully defeated this ''personal skill'' argument, fire at me if you think otherwise, thanks.

Takes a lot more skill to read the map and figure out what is going on then to have someone on voice comms telling what they are seeing or asking for help as a crutch.

[Faux Play.6104]

@kenny leone.2973 said:

@Elementalist Owner.7802 said:

@kenny leone.2973 said:

@Malediktus.9250 said:I really like this change, would be even better if ranked would be no duoQ at all.Please provide a compelling argument why you think it's a good change, Just saying you like it doesn't help this thread, thanks.

Before the change, you were at a disadvantage if you solo queued. As a competitive player I was fed up seeing other players rank higher than me not because they were better players, but because they duo queued and I didn't. If you wanted ranked to be the competitive mode it was intended to be, the solution was to remove duo queue. Now the leaderboard and ratings more accurately represent individual skill level. It's not perfect by any means but this was a step forward, in my opinion.

But taking a closer look, how does a duo team give an advantage over those who solo queued? if all players across both teams are of similar ratings, those who duo queued need to cooperate with the rest of their team in order to win, I respect your opinion but I don't think it's a strong argument for this reason I've provided, ultimately it comes down to the match making doing it's job properly, if there's a DuoQ, match them with an enemy team that has a DuoQ as well, make sure people are of similar ratings etc. This is not a healthy solution but a quick and lazy one. it damages the social aspect of the game, and for an MMO, the social aspect should be priority, otherwise we should all play a single player rpg and connected to a pvp mode.

Two highly rated people queue together when population is low. Their queue time goes up past the point where the match maker starts expanding their available opponents. This can increase up to a 1200MMR gap. Since they are at the top they will end up always playing lower rated teams and most times significantly lower rated. It is not uncommon for gold players to be playing top ten players. Top NA player last season was 113 wins 7 losses. No way someone has that win ratio if they are playing competitive games.

[Tiale.2430]

@kenny leone.2973 said:Oh two legendary players queuing together is unfair''. That's not my problem or anyone else's problem, that's the match making algorithm's problem, MATCH THOSE PLAYERS WITH SIMILAR RATINGS. I hope after reading this, you know this is a very bad idea. This is not a threat, but I bet you less and less people will play pvp as they achieve close to 1600 rating. Things are 10* more fun with a friend than alone. Find better ways to sort out this problem, I'm sure people would have better ideas on how to fix this problem. Thanks.

The population is low and 2 players playing like a God can carry games to win rates around 95%, because don't have enough people to good matchmakings and I see people dodging other good players in queue.I prefer solo queue, its more fun and rewarding see your personal skill and how much we can go far without anyone help. I think this season we will see more balanced W/L ratios in top tiers too.

[Shuriken.6738]

@kenny leone.2973 said:

@Malediktus.9250 said:I really like this change, would be even better if ranked would be no duoQ at all.Please provide a compelling argument why you think it's a good change, Just saying you like it doesn't help this thread, thanks.

Before the change, you were at a disadvantage if you solo queued. As a competitive player I was fed up seeing other players rank higher than me not because they were better players, but because they duo queued and I didn't. If you wanted ranked to be the competitive mode it was intended to be, the solution was to remove duo queue. Now the leaderboard and ratings more accurately represent individual skill level. It's not perfect by any means but this was a step forward, in my opinion.

Disadvantage? What disadvantage? I've been platinum 2 by queue in Duo, now im platinum 3 by Solo queue. Isn't it should be opposite then? Not the duo gives you a victory but the cooperation with whole team, not with just one person in it. Now since they restricted duo queue i just lost enjoyment of PvP and im not even mentioning the balance of the game...The only reason i bought expansion pack is to enjoy playing with friends in Duo's even more and I play ONLY PvP. So where does it leads to? To quiting the game sooner or later until i lose my last drop of patience. Isn't that how the community grows? People have matches together they win one or two and consider to play again with same person and they can reach new goals together and even make them consider to support the game by buying expansions to achieve higher goals. So i totally agree with @kenny leone.2973 point that restrictions like these killing community instead of solving the problem of matchmaking and i think Anet should reconsider changes like that. Its just kinda ridiculous that I can't play with the team in team based PvP mode.

[Miaz.8521]

SoloQ is fine during primetime, outside of it - a mess.

[kenny leone.2973]

@Faux Play.6104 said:

@kenny leone.2973 said:

@Elementalist Owner.7802 said:

@kenny leone.2973 said:

@Malediktus.9250 said:I really like this change, would be even better if ranked would be no duoQ at all.Please provide a compelling argument why you think it's a good change, Just saying you like it doesn't help this thread, thanks.

Before the change, you were at a disadvantage if you solo queued. As a competitive player I was fed up seeing other players rank higher than me not because they were better players, but because they duo queued and I didn't. If you wanted ranked to be the competitive mode it was intended to be, the solution was to remove duo queue. Now the leaderboard and ratings more accurately represent individual skill level. It's not perfect by any means but this was a step forward, in my opinion.

But taking a closer look, how does a duo team give an advantage over those who solo queued? if all players across both teams are of similar ratings, those who duo queued need to cooperate with the rest of their team in order to win, I respect your opinion but I don't think it's a strong argument for this reason I've provided, ultimately it comes down to the match making doing it's job properly, if there's a DuoQ, match them with an enemy team that has a DuoQ as well, make sure people are of similar ratings etc. This is not a healthy solution but a quick and lazy one. it damages the social aspect of the game, and for an MMO, the social aspect should be priority, otherwise we should all play a single player rpg and connected to a pvp mode.

Two highly rated people queue together when population is low. Their queue time goes up past the point where the match maker starts expanding their available opponents. This can increase up to a 1200MMR gap. Since they are at the top they will end up always playing lower rated teams and most times significantly lower rated. It is not uncommon for gold players to be playing top ten players. Top NA player last season was 113 wins 7 losses. No way someone has that win ratio if they are playing competitive games.

Ye but is that the fault of the duoQ or the fault of the match making? if someone is at university and given primary school exams, should that be happening? of course not because the university will probably be banned as the candidates won't reflect the skill their degree indicates. That is not a defence for soloQ's only

[maxwelgm.4315]

Are the top ratings considerably lower than last season? I remember when I was getting Ascension there were people with like 2000+ rating. I can only assume that, being forced to fend off by themselves, top players won't get past the 1900 barrier, because losses are that much more significant and more frequent for them.

[kenny leone.2973]

@Faux Play.6104 said:

@kenny leone.2973 said:

@Titan.3472 said:Everyone is solo in competitive pvp season matches and it is the basis on a EQUALY FAIR randomize team competition to have an accurate MMR of your PERSONNAL skill. Not too hard to understand I guess ! ^^ (So it has nothing to do with playing (or not) with friends...)

Personal skill? it's a team based game, if anything it shows your ability to cooperate with your team, so that statement about personal skill is counter-intuitive. If it was a free-for-all game mode then that's an accurate representation of personal skill, so I believe that defence is weak. I can understand if it was a full 5 man team against a group of randoms. The reason that would be unfair because the whole team would have a superior chemistry with faster and easier communication between all members. Having a DuoQ in a team of randoms where there are 3 other people selected at random isn't an advantage because those two have to communicate with 60% of the team in other to win. Imagine if two brothers join a football team, great chemistry between them. No mater how good their communication is, if they don't cooperate and communicate tactics with the rest of the team, there probably would be a lot of confusion and would not lead to victory. Their loss isn't reflective of their ''personal skill'' but a lack teamwork. I hope I have successfully defeated this ''personal skill'' argument, fire at me if you think otherwise, thanks.

Takes a lot more skill to read the map and figure out what is going on then to have someone on voice comms telling what they are seeing or asking for help as a crutch.

Ye everyone in the team needs to possess this skill but ultimately communicate with each other in other to win. having a duoQ on comms is neglible, because the whole team isn't on comms, so those two have to communicate with the other half (more than half) of the team. Don't know where people get this idea winning a game is a reflection of your personal skill, it is a flawed concept as the win is dependent on 4 other people cooperating with you. We have people who are called the best players in the world, Messi, Ronaldo, etc. You still see them losing games, why? because no matter how amazing they are, it's a minute deciding factor in the victory, 10 other players have communicate and play as a team. A more accurate depiction of personal skill would be that stats awarded in the games, most kills, defending, etc. Note I said ''more accurate'', it's not great but much better. Please this personal skill argument is a tired one for these reasons. thanks

[kenny leone.2973]

@Tiale.2430 said:

@kenny leone.2973 said:Oh two legendary players queuing together is unfair''. That's not my problem or anyone else's problem, that's the match making algorithm's problem, MATCH THOSE PLAYERS WITH SIMILAR RATINGS. I hope after reading this, you know this is a very bad idea. This is not a threat, but I bet you less and less people will play pvp as they achieve close to 1600 rating. Things are 10* more fun with a friend than alone. Find better ways to sort out this problem, I'm sure people would have better ideas on how to fix this problem. Thanks.

The population is low and 2 players playing like a God can carry games to win rates around 95%, because don't have enough people to good matchmakings and I see people dodging other good players in queue.I prefer solo queue, its more fun and rewarding see your personal skill and how much we can go far without anyone help. I think this season we will see more balanced W/L ratios in top tiers too.

Again my friend, that's not the fault of the duoQ but the match making, It's like blaming a fire-man for the fire. it's counter- intuitive, if two god like players queue, place them with enemies of a similar rating, ultimately they will have longer Queue times, which is understandable, they are at the top, and there are few at the top, don't place them against Gold 3's because the Queue's would be longer otherwise, cuz that's like telling a grown man like me to fight a toddler of 3yrs. It's not only stupid, but wrong and says nothing about my fighting skill.

[Levijeh.1467]

Would you prefer to fight a legendary duo probably rank 2 and rank 4 and get completely obliterated, OR have them split one in your team and one in the enemy team and have better chances for a fair/playable match. Do you get the idea?

[Jeknar.6184]

@Faux Play.6104 said:Top NA player last season was 113 wins 7 losses. No way someone has that win ratio if they are playing competitive games.

Don't diss on my boy Helio just because he queue against Asians in the morning...

[Faux Play.6104]

@kenny leone.2973 said:

@Faux Play.6104 said:

@kenny leone.2973 said:

@Elementalist Owner.7802 said:

@kenny leone.2973 said:

@Malediktus.9250 said:I really like this change, would be even better if ranked would be no duoQ at all.Please provide a compelling argument why you think it's a good change, Just saying you like it doesn't help this thread, thanks.

Before the change, you were at a disadvantage if you solo queued. As a competitive player I was fed up seeing other players rank higher than me not because they were better players, but because they duo queued and I didn't. If you wanted ranked to be the competitive mode it was intended to be, the solution was to remove duo queue. Now the leaderboard and ratings more accurately represent individual skill level. It's not perfect by any means but this was a step forward, in my opinion.

But taking a closer look, how does a duo team give an advantage over those who solo queued? if all players across both teams are of similar ratings, those who duo queued need to cooperate with the rest of their team in order to win, I respect your opinion but I don't think it's a strong argument for this reason I've provided, ultimately it comes down to the match making doing it's job properly, if there's a DuoQ, match them with an enemy team that has a DuoQ as well, make sure people are of similar ratings etc. This is not a healthy solution but a quick and lazy one. it damages the social aspect of the game, and for an MMO, the social aspect should be priority, otherwise we should all play a single player rpg and connected to a pvp mode.

Two highly rated people queue together when population is low. Their queue time goes up past the point where the match maker starts expanding their available opponents. This can increase up to a 1200MMR gap. Since they are at the top they will end up always playing lower rated teams and most times significantly lower rated. It is not uncommon for gold players to be playing top ten players. Top NA player last season was 113 wins 7 losses. No way someone has that win ratio if they are playing competitive games.

Ye but is that the fault of the duoQ or the fault of the match making? if someone is at university and given primary school exams, should that be happening? of course not because the university will probably be banned as the candidates won't reflect the skill their degree indicates. That is not a defence for soloQ's only

Some people make sure they take classes from easier professors, or take the hard classes in the summer when they have a lighter work load. That is closer what is going on because gold players are getting put in with top 20 players in NA even in prime time matches. However the off hours duos get these matchups more often.

probably a better solution is more ATs, and have AT matches count towards your rating...provided there are limitations on the MMR gap that a team has on it.

[kenny leone.2973]

@maxwelgm.4315 said:Are the top ratings considerably lower than last season? I remember when I was getting Ascension there were people with like 2000+ rating. I can only assume that, being forced to fend off by themselves, top players won't get past the 1900 barrier, because losses are that much more significant and more frequent for them.There are other def

@Levijeh.1467 said:Would you prefer to fight a legendary duo probably rank 2 and rank 4 and get completely obliterated, OR have them split one in your team and one in the enemy team and have better chances for a fair/playable match. Do you get the idea?

Ye that's not a bad idea but if those two legendaries decide to Queue together, place them with players of a similar rating as I've said over and over on this thread plz read up, Just because their queue times would be longer is no excuse to place them with players of a significantly lower rating because not only is it wrong, but the rating they get from the win is not justified but false, It's not DuoQ fault, but the match making.

[kenny leone.2973]

@Jeknar.6184 said:

@Faux Play.6104 said:Top NA player last season was 113 wins 7 losses. No way someone has that win ratio if they are playing competitive games.

Don't diss on my boy Helio just because he queue against Asians in the morning...

By the laws of probability, the higher the sample size, the ratio of outcomes get closer and closer to the initial probability of those individual outcomes. In matches there are two outcomes, win or lose, that's a 50%-50% ratio, As a good player with reasonably successful games, you might manage to skew this and maintain a 60%-40% (wins-losses) which seems more realistic because your victory is not just based on yourself but many other variables that you have little control of most times. So to see a player with 113-7 ( that's 93%-7% ratio) seems a bit suspicious with that many games played (high sample size). So he has a point. Anyways sorry to the non-mathematicians, hope it wasn't confusing, thanks.

[Morwath.9817]

@kenny leone.2973 said:

@Jeknar.6184 said:

@Faux Play.6104 said:Top NA player last season was 113 wins 7 losses. No way someone has that win ratio if they are playing competitive games.

Don't diss on my boy Helio just because he queue against Asians in the morning...

By the laws of probability, the higher the sample size, the ratio of outcomes get closer and closer to the initial probability of those individual outcomes. In matches there are two outcomes, win or lose, that's a 50%-50% ratio, As a good player with reasonably successful games, you might manage to skew this and maintain a 60%-40% (wins-losses) which seems more realistic because your victory is not just based on yourself but many other variables that you have little control of most times. So to see a player with 113-7 ( that's 93%-7% ratio) seems a bit suspicious with that many games played (high sample size). So he has a point. Anyways sorry to the non-mathematicians, hope it wasn't confusing, thanks.

Quaggan has no clues about silly human mathematic or whatever its called, but for Quaggan it's 94,2%-5,8%.