Thief CORE Mechanics are TOO GOOD in Competitive Modes

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

People really want an entire class they don't play and acknowledge is high skill to be reworked  entirely because some people put in the effort to be a mild inconvenience and are annoying to fight.

 

Par for the course tbh. Haven't seen a core thief in years.

Tell you what, though. Humor me. What do you want reworked, @Svarty.8019? Pick a thing more specific than "Not a nerf, similar mechanics, but different". 

Edited October 2, 2022 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[Leger.3724]

41 minutes ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

People really want an entire class they don't play and acknowledge is high skill to be reworked  entirely because some people put in the effort to be a mild inconvenience and are annoying to fight.

 

Par for the course tbh. Haven't seen a core thief in years.

Tell you what, though. Humor me. What do you want reworked, @Svarty.8019?

 

A total dodge. The number of people who regularly play pvp is in the hundreds. The most successful 5v5 pvp game has over 100 million regular players. 

And you want to talk about the game allowing experienced players (not skilled, experienced. You are not skilled, you are experienced) a "mild inconvenience". Where has this logic gotten us in 10 years? A few thousand to a few hundred. A masterclass.

Nobody wants to play the pvp in this game. Nobody sane at least. And that should tell you all you need to know about these "mild inconveniences" you've memorized to exploit against new players.

Arena Net can listen to people like you, the people who have led them down the path of a playerbase numbered in the hundreds... or they can take a look at what successful games do with core mechanics like stealth, teleportation, invulnerability, crowd control, etc...

If they want to fail but allow a couple hundred people to feel good about themselves... well I guess that's Arena Net's choice. Personally I'd hope that if and when they come out with GW3 they take the lessons of the poor combat system to heart.

Edited October 2, 2022 by Leger.3724

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

3 hours ago, Leger.3724 said:

 

A total dodge. The number of people who regularly play pvp is in the hundreds. The most successful 5v5 pvp game has over 100 million regular players. 

And you want to talk about the game allowing experienced players (not skilled, experienced. You are not skilled, you are experienced) a "mild inconvenience". Where has this logic gotten us in 10 years? A few thousand to a few hundred. A masterclass.

Nobody wants to play the pvp in this game. Nobody sane at least. And that should tell you all you need to know about these "mild inconveniences" you've memorized to exploit against new players.

Arena Net can listen to people like you, the people who have led them down the path of a playerbase numbered in the hundreds... or they can take a look at what successful games do with core mechanics like stealth, teleportation, invulnerability, crowd control, etc...

If they want to fail but allow a couple hundred people to feel good about themselves... well I guess that's Arena Net's choice. Personally I'd hope that if and when they come out with GW3 they take the lessons of the poor combat system to heart.

 

What do you want reworked on thief, @Leger.3724?

Quote

Nobody wants to play the pvp in this game. Nobody sane at least. And that should tell you all you need to know about these "mild inconveniences" you've memorized to exploit against new players.

People aren't avoiding pvp because of the existence of thief. The problem is much larger in scope than that. But let's be constructive, eh? Balance the class. How should a thief be allowed to interact with you? If your changes drastically affect the hundreds of thousands of thief players throughout the game modes, how should they mitigate that? 

Quote

The most successful 5v5 pvp game has over 100 million regular players. 

League of Legends?

People complain about stealth there too. People hating annoying-to-fight mechanics is universal and not particular to Gw2

Edited October 2, 2022 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[Leger.3724]

39 minutes ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

People complain about stealth there too. People hating annoying-to-fight mechanics is universal and not particular to Gw2

 

And there are simple counters to stealth that are easily accessible to everyone in League of Legends. Teleports have long cooldowns or drawbacks so they cannot be spammed. 

 

It's almost like one game tries to design so that things are balanced and fun meanwhile we have GW2 where the thief profession and its specializations can travel to the moon and back 90% stealthed up where you have no realistic counter to said stealth.

 

In terms of reworking the thief - this game is completely kittened. There is no realistic rework to be done on the thief. Any rework would be a fundamental redesign of the combat system in Guild Wars 2 and I don't see that happening because it would rightfully kitten off many pve players. 

 

Threads like these are something that Arena Net should keep in mind when developing GW3 combat if they want a successful pvp mode.

 

People might complain about things in League of Legends but fundamentally and subconsciously they understand they get a fair shake. They understand it's a game of skill. They understand they can alter their playstyle and make choices to counter stealth or whatever comes up in the match. And that's why they have had 100+ million active monthly users for years now.

 

People understand in Guild Wars 2 that you are not getting a fair shake, you can't realistically adjust your playstyle when you encounter something like say a thief roaming around. You have to endure things. And that's why the pvp playerbase has dwindled from tens of thousands to thousands to hundreds. It is not an enjoyable experience. It's not very balanced. It's not intuitive. It's not based around skill. And so people left. And they never returned.

 

 

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

17 hours ago, Leger.3724 said:

 

And there are simple counters to stealth that are easily accessible to everyone in League of Legends. Teleports have long cooldowns or drawbacks so they cannot be spammed. 

 

It's almost like one game tries to design so that things are balanced and fun meanwhile we have GW2 where the thief profession and its specializations can travel to the moon and back 90% stealthed up where you have no realistic counter to said stealth.

 

In terms of reworking the thief - this game is completely kittened. There is no realistic rework to be done on the thief. Any rework would be a fundamental redesign of the combat system in Guild Wars 2 and I don't see that happening because it would rightfully kitten off many pve players. 

 

Threads like these are something that Arena Net should keep in mind when developing GW3 combat if they want a successful pvp mode.

 

People might complain about things in League of Legends but fundamentally and subconsciously they understand they get a fair shake. They understand it's a game of skill. They understand they can alter their playstyle and make choices to counter stealth or whatever comes up in the match. And that's why they have had 100+ million active monthly users for years now.

 

People understand in Guild Wars 2 that you are not getting a fair shake, you can't realistically adjust your playstyle when you encounter something like say a thief roaming around. You have to endure things. And that's why the pvp playerbase has dwindled from tens of thousands to thousands to hundreds. It is not an enjoyable experience. It's not very balanced. It's not intuitive. It's not based around skill. And so people left. And they never returned.

 

 

Okay, cool, glad we came to the agreement that

*squints at paper*

[nothing can be done to fix thief]

and

[thief is largely, if not singlehandedly to blame for pvp collapsing] 

Quote

People might complain about things in League of Legends but fundamentally and subconsciously they understand they get a fair shake. They understand it's a game of skill.

With a straight face? You have a bridge to sell me, too?

Go play a thief in conquest, or draw from what makes stealth fun in LoL (despite people complaining even harder about stealth champions there) to suggest reworks for what you specifically think is overpowered, instead of gesturing at a concept. Often when a thread gets made like this, it's usually stemming from players that don't know what the thief is doing or what they could possibly do to answer it, just that they're annoyed by it. 

LoL is indeed a skillful game, but people still whine about stealth/ambush champs every chance they get.

Quote

They understand they can alter their playstyle and make choices to counter stealth or whatever comes up in the match.

And this can't be done in matches involving thieves here because? 

Edited October 2, 2022 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[Bazsi.2734]

5 hours ago, Leger.3724 said:

And there are simple counters to stealth that are easily accessible to everyone in League of Legends.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Revealed 
Okay, where is the difference? Apart from ele being unable to stealth&reveal on its own, all other classes can at least apply reveal or do both. 
When it comes to little details of gameplay, comparing vastly different games cannot be used to make valid points... but even if you could, the games do not differ in this regard.

 

5 hours ago, Leger.3724 said:

Teleports have long cooldowns or drawbacks so they cannot be spammed. 

And the flow of the combat is completely different. If you have a squishy char in LoL, you can run back to your towers, build it to be more survivable over time etc... in GW2 some builds only survive through their mobility.
But I can agree that in general the mobility creep has been bad, I'd like to see mobility getting toned down somewhat across the board. Every class with 1200 range teleports, superspeed... it's getting too much.
 

5 hours ago, Leger.3724 said:

It's almost like one game tries to design so that things are balanced and fun meanwhile we have GW2 where the thief profession and its specializations can travel to the moon and back 90% stealthed up where you have no realistic counter to said stealth.

The main gamemode is conquest, you cannot contest a capture point while stealthed. Also, stacking stealth is heavily disincentivized now(read up on the recent SA rework if you haven't done so), meaning nobody camps stealth anymore. So for example on power Soulbeast, it takes 3 buttonpresses to instantly reveal, and Rapidfire them to death. A properly traited engineer (tools) can reveal them twice every 25 seconds etc...

There are very realistic counters to stealth, you're just slightly less effective against everything else when you spend traits/support skills so you can absolutely demolish stealth users. It's called a tradeoff.
 

5 hours ago, Leger.3724 said:

In terms of reworking the thief - this game is completely kittened. There is no realistic rework to be done on the thief. Any rework would be a fundamental redesign of the combat system in Guild Wars 2 and I don't see that happening because it would rightfully kitten off many pve players. 

 

Threads like these are something that Arena Net should keep in mind when developing GW3 combat if they want a successful pvp mode.

So eh... why are you here? If the game is completely hopeless and you can't even be bothered to think about how to make it any better, why not play literally anything else? With all the doomering and discontent I display on these forums, I still prefere GW2 over games like WoW or ESO or even staring at an empty wall. And the last one is a pretty high bar so that's saying something.
 

Bringing up other games that have entirely different systems and designs, then adding nothing to the discourse on how to make this game better... there seems to be an easy solution: just play those games!

 

5 hours ago, Leger.3724 said:

People might complain about things in League of Legends but fundamentally and subconsciously they understand they get a fair shake. They understand it's a game of skill. They understand they can alter their playstyle and make choices to counter stealth or whatever comes up in the match.

Opposed to GW2 where you apparently cannot do that. I'm pretty sure I was doing the same by swapping skills/builds or even classes before the match starts. This is news to me. You could have told me this sooner, I thought you could adapt by changing things!

 

5 hours ago, Leger.3724 said:

 And that's why they have had 100+ million active monthly users for years now.

Ah yes, it has nothing to do with MMO-s and MOBA-s being different, marketing, player demographics... you sure know how the world works buddy. Just give better counters to stealth with less teleports and the servers would collapse under the weight of new incoming players!
 

5 hours ago, Leger.3724 said:

People understand in Guild Wars 2 that you are not getting a fair shake, you can't realistically adjust your playstyle when you encounter something like say a thief roaming around. You have to endure things. And that's why the pvp playerbase has dwindled from tens of thousands to thousands to hundreds. It is not an enjoyable experience. It's not very balanced. It's not intuitive. It's not based around skill. And so people left. And they never returned.

I'm sure there are players who think like this, but they are objectively wrong. In PvP you have access to the same stats/traits/builds from the start, you can check out the enemy team in prep-time and guess what build they are running with 90% accuracy, even relog to a class that counters better so... you have absolutely 0 excuse for not hardcountering the enemy when the match starts.
In WvW, you can change your build whenever you're not in combat. If you decide to cross some huge open plains alone to catch up to the zerg, and you don't swap for a survivalist build... L2P problem! You had the opportunity to prepare, but you didn't. Now enjoy getting capped by one lone roamer.
 

But again, if you honestly believe what you just typed out here... just leave! Play something else you actually enjoy, dont torture yourself with a game that gives you no fun.

 

Edited October 2, 2022 by Bazsi.2734

[Jugglemonkey.8741]

12 hours ago, Leger.3724 said:

 

When the game mode is numbered in the hundreds of players maybe it is time to look at what is fun and what is not because the mode has clearly failed.

 

When a thief can determine, when, where, if and how a pvp interaction ends... maybe that needs to be looked at by Arena Net. Maybe that's not a good idea to keep people coming to your game.

My issues with pvp go far beyond a thief but this thread was started in general discussion. Some people who casually pvp wanted to show they were upset with the design of the thief and the core mechanics of stealth and teleportation.

And thread was interesting enough and good enough and specific enough to be used as an example to Arena Net of why the pvp scene is dead and the wvw scene has been dying for years. The core combat mechanics are just awful. You can paper this over in pve and you don't have to deal with it in casual pve much. But there's no hiding anything in pvp/wvw. The thief was the subject so the thief is what I looked at.

If you want to talk necro start a thread. Talk about why you dislike fighting necros in pvp. I don't think thief is the only problem in pvp by any stretch of the imagination. Mechanics cross professions/specializations in this game so the problems with stealth and teleportation aren't limited to the thief though I would say they are the most egregious on that profession.

You missed my point I think. You dont have to like thief, just like I dont have to like necro, but you wanting to nerf thief mobility simply because you don't like them disengaging is like me saying core necro shroud should be removed so I can hit the necro better. I focussed on necro shroud because I know Svarty is a necro main, personally don't care about necro shroud and it's fine as is. I just wanted to point out that disliking how something works because of its core design is a bad reason to call for nerfs, regardless of the subject at hand. I responded sarcastically because after 10 years this topic is painfully tired, especially when it comes from someone like Svarty who has been playing the game for a long time and really should know better by now. 

Thief has always lacked a lot of the defensive abilities that other classes exactly because have because they have mobility and stealth, to the point that every Thief build that doesnt play decap in PvP has always been nerfed into the floor a few months later. Picking people off when they are weak and then leaving the fight is precisely how ANet have balanced thief gameplay for the last 10 years, nerfing anything that performs well enough to duel or hold point. 

The issue with specializations like specter, willbender and harbinger is that they are too tanky and do too high damage in PvP settings for the mobility they have which let them cover multiple roles simultaneously. Specter is having it's sustain drastically cut next patch, so it will probably go back to playing the decap and +1 role. Removing that role by removing the mobility would require massive buffs to its sustain to make it viable, at which point you find yourself in the same dilemma warrior currently finds itself in. That's why thief players are taking a dim view of this topic: we have have had precisely one role in competitive modes for the entire duration of the game, and people saying that thief ought to be nerfed because it is the best at it's single role without realising that the rest of the class is otherwise very underpowered gets very tiring. 

If it wasn't thief being the fastest class in PvP, you'd be complaining about the next fastest. That's how it's always going to be when you have classes with different mobility levels and defensive levels that corresponds to that mobility. I'd advise you to get used to it, because after 10 years it's not going to change. 

Edited October 2, 2022 by Jugglemonkey.8741
Spelling

[Burial.1958]

For me it stands. Thief needs even buffs than more nerfs.  After years of nerfs over nerfs it is time that thief also get some love.

[Zen.5903]

our motto needs to be make thief great for once

[Emolesbian.3170]

Thief: "We thieves, remain the best in the mobility departement."

 

Mechanist and its Shift Signet: A one way Shadowstep with 10s less CD in WvW. Also teleport the mech to nuke the kitten out of you.

 

Willbender with Crashing Courage and Flash Combo: 

 

- One way. Pair them together and you can cover roughly 1500 units. Which is 300 more units than Shadowstep. for a total CD longer by 5s.

- Usable separately = flex.

- 900 units rewind if Flash Combo hits land.

- Crashing Courage provide a lot of flexibility. Thanks to its virtue nature and the kitten long list of traits its related to.

- Gardian by nature provide many advantages. Enough to counter the inner condi cleanse tied to Shadowstep that Flash Combo and Crashing Courage together lack.

 

Thief: "We thieves, remain the best in the mobil...you know what ? Nervermind."

[senftube.6081]

ArenaNet simply nerfed everything possible for the thief. It's strange when other classes have almost the same but with 10 sec less CD but with a lot more passive boons and traits. Unfortunately, you can see that there is no one at Anet who really plays this class with heart.

I think the thief will take the warrior status on October 4th. It's a pity that unlike the warrior, we'll probably never get a patch after 10 years that buffs the thief or reworks it in a meaningful way.

The mobility Creep was insane with EoD. I mean look at mech. Can do twice the dmg like thief and that on distance with simply press 1 and let the automated mech doing the job. LOL

 

and still we have folks who cry for even more nerfs.....c'mon what is wrong with those?

Edited October 3, 2022 by Yunari.9065

[Zerlok.5042]

Dear player just sorry, but - SHUT UP please!!!!! Never say about thief its so not normaly class in game. I played 9 years in gw2 80-85% time on wvw and belive me - thief this is not the class to be nerfed or rework. Trouble balance engi and guards to many dps and def on 1 builds and what about controls too. How about crazy elems who played in def - cant never kill class? And  ofcourse negative condi revenants who have incredible heal and not normal condi damage (but this only rarely players). SO dont talk about thief its broken class, i play thief and know - this is trash class if copmaring 5 years ago and now (or last june patch NICE DESTROY STEALTH CLASS). 

OOOOOH and almost forgot the most important on game 9 classes 6 (maybe correct say 4 class and 2 proff)  them can use REVEALED on thief, this time easy kill this class. DONT talk about thief - its not normal, DONT. Need up class bec so hard playing now. 1 vs 2 (good players) on wvw never win, but another class - easy, OMG really????????? THIS words write roamer player, this class cant super heal + def + damage in 1 build, but another class CAN. This  not honestly!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Edited October 3, 2022 by Zerlok.5042

[Squeesidhe.4761]

Just played some PVP and this thread demanding that Thief be reworked because it is overpowered is even more stupid than I first thought, and I thought it was pretty stupid to begin with. Most classes were able to insta-stomp me. Like, one hit, dead. Endless CC spam. AOEs that cover every square inch of ground. Pretty much every class has players who have figured out how to over-tune their classes into high-performance sports cars. So a small number of Thief players have also figured out how to do the same thing? And that's reason to rework the ENTIRE Thief class? 

 

Just Thieves, though. Not any of the other classes that can be tuned to insta-stomp you or shrug off any damage.  

 

K. Got it. 

[reddie.5861]

so lets do this.
 

remove stealth from thief or increase the debuff time to re stealth by alot. 
remove shadowstep or increase CD by alot also
remove ini and add skill cooldowns instead

 

now tell me how does is  a thief gonna deffend it self now? the core one obviously
it cant run it has no deffensive skills it has CD on shadowstep(s)
so all we can do is dodge twice or maybe 3 times.
now imagine what all the other classes have blocks/invul/dodges/dmg reduction/ton of CC etc

 

thief is actually a very kitten toon if u ask me. Thief was good when i started playing Gw2 when a thief felt like a thief and could actually 1 shot people with backstab. now my backstab does less dmg then some regular spamable skills from other classes

[thaniretouni.4762]

On 9/27/2022 at 2:09 PM, Emolesbian.3170 said:

Please play thief for a few months and learn from it:

 

- Burst damage...:

1. It is terrible. Ofc they needed the nerfs. Prime thieves with Assassin's signet, Backstab, mug crit, steal stealth were a plague in WvW. Burst enough to OS whoever came by them. Now if a thief fails his burst, he's nothing but a free kill. In comparison some classes can output litteraly the same level of damage on a more regular rate and minimum effort. If a thief init a fight and fails at it, he's chance to score the kill are near zero AND...that's why they shadowstep away.

 

- And shadowsteps...:

1.  Util. has 50s CD and action's window is 15s once activated <- This is an important countdown to keep in mind.
2.  Same window for Infiltrator Strike which is a point A to point B skill so you have to keep in mind the flow of the skill + starting/return point to plan a safe escape route.
3. Infiltrator Arrow and its huge init cost (8) speaks for itself.
4. Infiltrator Signet ? Who use it ? Signet of Agility is still better for Stamina recharge and Condi cleanse because Condi is thieves nemesis. Even more since Shadow Arts cleanse over time is gone.

 

- Init cost:

1. Most effective thief skills has their init cost pumped to the brim over and over. Now we have to make a choice to use them or not as it could leave us with an empty init bar. Take a look at Infiltrator Arrow and it's wtf 8 init cost. Please keep in mind that init bar total is 15 points with trickery. With many skills pinned to ~6 init cost, needless to say that 15 points melt pretty quickly if you don't play cautiously.

 

- Stealth:

1. Well man...Core thief has hmmm...Blinding Powder and Shadow Refuge. Running both is a not super useful and Shadow Refuge is not ideal as ppl can AoE the area to kitten you up before you move. So Blinding powder is the winner. On a 40s CD *wink*.
2. Cloack and dagger. But you need dagger OH and hit your target at melee range.
3. Black Powder/Heartseeker combo ? Remember the init cost ? Doing one combo cost 9 init. +3 for each subsequent Heartseeker. What will you do if you empty your init bar ? NOTHING...You're Infiltrator Arrow is kittened at the first combo (cost 8 ) if you want to secure an escape route. You're best bet is Shadowstep util...I hope you plan to use it well or waste it...
4. With reworked Shadow Arts thieves don't recover init over time anymore while in stealth and are now limited to 3 points. And if you wasted all your init in leap combo. What will you do with 3 points when the revealed debuff will come ? lol.
5. Stealth on Steal is gone.
6. Stealth on Heal is gone.
7. Trait to increase Stealth duration is gone. Now Normalized to 3s.
8. WvW structures can reveal.

- Ridiculous HP pool. Poor defense. 

- Blind is very useful against Rapid Fire and friends.

 

...And I'm tired to keep going. Thief ? cheesy? yes it was, years ago. Now the level of awareness required on your mechanics, the terrain you are fighting on, the remaining CDs on your util. , the maths to keep your init bar running, your position for in/out...there are so many parameters to constantly keep in mind to play a thief decently.

 

Thief needed nerfs here and there ofc. They had dozens of them for the last years and once again, many of them were deserved. And people still complain about how good it is ? As it goes, this class will turn into a kittening nobody one day and they'll still be there saying thief is too good.

(Feel free to correct me. Kinda nodding off lol).

Can't agree more. I was a thief main for years. Now it's a joke. Even sword pistol does so little dmg now. I am done playing dagger pistol just to be mediocre these days. I just play other classes.

[Leger.3724]

On 10/2/2022 at 5:50 AM, Bazsi.2734 said:

So eh... why are you here? If the game is completely hopeless and you can't even be bothered to think about how to make it any better, why not play literally anything else? With all the doomering and discontent I display on these forums, I still prefere GW2 over games like WoW or ESO or even staring at an empty wall. And the last one is a pretty high bar so that's saying something.

 

The game is hopeless at one thing - pvp. And that is why I have barely touched it since 2014. But the game is not entirely or mostly pvp.

 

Guild Wars 2 open world pve is by far the best of any game on the market. There is a reason World of Warcraft, Elder Scrolls Online and others are essentially copying things right out of GW2 left and right and have been doing so for years now.

 

I'm here posting in hopes that if and when Guild Wars 3 is developed they can take lessons and come up with a better combat system and better mechanics that can lead to fun pvp experiences and a sizeable pvp community.

Edit: And because we're on the thief forum and there are a lot of thieves upset because their profession technically isn't OP in pvp... yeah, so what? The thief is an example of mechanics that are not fun to play against. And my problems with pvp go way beyond the thief. Every mechanic from stealth to teleportation to boons to conditions to invulnerabilities to immunes to whatever else I haven't thought of and the amount of them you have available on one build, the cooldowns on them... it's all one giant problem. And 10 years into the game Arena Net isn't about to start unravelling this problem.

 

Edited October 3, 2022 by Leger.3724

[Jugglemonkey.8741]

33 minutes ago, Leger.3724 said:

 

The game is hopeless at one thing - pvp. And that is why I have barely touched it since 2014. But the game is not entirely or mostly pvp.

 

Guild Wars 2 open world pve is by far the best of any game on the market. There is a reason World of Warcraft, Elder Scrolls Online and others are essentially copying things right out of GW2 left and right and have been doing so for years now.

 

I'm here posting in hopes that if and when Guild Wars 3 is developed they can take lessons and come up with a better combat system and better mechanics that can lead to fun pvp experiences and a sizeable pvp community.

Edit: And because we're on the thief forum and there are a lot of thieves upset because their profession technically isn't OP in pvp... yeah, so what? The thief is an example of mechanics that are not fun to play against. And my problems with pvp go way beyond the thief. Every mechanic from stealth to teleportation to boons to conditions to invulnerabilities to immunes to whatever else I haven't thought of and the amount of them you have available on one build, the cooldowns on them... it's all one giant problem. And 10 years into the game Arena Net isn't about to start unravelling this problem.

 

I'm not upset because thief isn't OP in PvP. I'm tired of people asking for nerfs to thief despite acknowledging that it is not OP simply because it irritates them. That is a stupid reason to nerf something. To put it another way, your posts irritate me, but calling for you to be banned from the forums simply because your opinion exists would be an overreaction, no?

[Felices Bladewing.3914]

On 9/24/2022 at 10:43 PM, Svarty.8019 said:

All variations of Thief are hard to play well. I acknowledge that fact. It's a blessing that there are only a few who can master this abomination of design, but when they do, holy smokes, it's incredible - it's no accident that the most impressive and outrageous roaming videos are made by thief players.

 

It's been clear since way back in the day that an average thief can outperform anything else in competitive modes. Come on. It's time to change the core mechanic to something sensible, get rid of the idea that it's fine to have ..well... everything on a single class and without cooldowns. 

 

 

Please understand that I'm not just asking for nerfs. I'm asking for a rework. Make things more balanced, let's see some LEVELLING UP!

 

 

Thief assambels some or even most of the assets that are considered „unfun“ i can agree, but on the same note this is actually the reason many player exactly like to play thief (where i put myself also in)

 

The iteration of „stealth“ in GW2 is one of the most discussed topics since launch and i would again agree that the current form is not ideal, where i also think many thief players wouldn‘t argue against.

 

But in the end - „streamlining“ thief to a fair fighter, changing the mobility and utility reducing the roaming capabilities and enhance the upfront possibilities would turn the profession almost into a warrior/rev clone and not being unique anymore.

 

So without any decent and constructive feedback with some ideas and design proposals that are actually worth discussing posts like this will always be considered and received as a whining, since you bring nothing new to the table

[kash.9213]

2 hours ago, Leger.3724 said:

I'm here posting in hopes that if and when Guild Wars 3 is developed they can take lessons and come up with a better combat system and better mechanics that can lead to fun pvp experiences and a sizeable pvp community....

The game is hopeless at one thing - pvp. And that is why I have barely touched it since 2014. But the game is not entirely or mostly pvp.

Guild Wars 2 open world pve is by far the best of any game on the market. There is a reason World of Warcraft, Elder Scrolls Online and others are essentially copying things right out of GW2 left and right and have been doing so for years now.

I'm here posting in hopes that if and when Guild Wars 3 is developed they can take lessons and come up with a better combat system and better mechanics that can lead to fun pvp experiences and a sizeable pvp community.

Edit: And because we're on the thief forum and there are a lot of thieves upset because their profession technically isn't OP in pvp... yeah, so what? The thief is an example of mechanics that are not fun to play against. And my problems with pvp go way beyond the thief. Every mechanic from stealth to teleportation to boons to conditions to invulnerabilities to immunes to whatever else I haven't thought of and the amount of them you have available on one build, the cooldowns on them... it's all one giant problem. And 10 years into the game Arena Net isn't about to start unravelling this problem.

 

You have any details on how you would do that? 

I never known or heard of a thief upset because they're not op in pvp. Maybe someone back in 2014 gave you that vibe.

Take the game you claim has 100million players consistently playing it daily, and you'll have at least one reason why people still stick with the combat and game modes in GW2 for a decade. Are you playing that game? Are you happy with it? Why are you here? 

Thief class doesn't need a rework. If you can't articulate what aspects and mechanics should be changed and how they should be changed, then asking for broad random resets of entire classes sizes up your understanding of games in general and their playerbase. 

Teach yourself to look around to catch signs on terrain and expect plotting and be quick with mouse targeting to catch people in that window between their stealth or whatever mitigation is up. 

Edited October 3, 2022 by kash.9213

[Leger.3724]

35 minutes ago, kash.9213 said:

You have any details on how you would do that? 

I never known or heard of a thief upset because they're not op in pvp. Maybe someone back in 2014 gave you that vibe.

Take the game you claim has 100million players consistently playing it daily, and you'll have at least one reason why people still stick with the combat and game modes in GW2 for a decade. Are you playing that game? Are you happy with it? Why are you here? 

Thief class doesn't need a rework. If you can't articulate what aspects and mechanics should be changed and how they should be changed, then asking for broad random resets of entire classes sizes up your understanding of games in general and their playerbase. 

Teach yourself to look around to catch signs on terrain and expect plotting and be quick with mouse targeting to catch people in that window between their stealth or whatever mitigation is up. 

 

That would be Arena Net's job and not mine.

 

All I know is it's too easy for certain classes to do certain things that are either:

A) blatantly OP

B) toxic

 

And thief falls into category B.

[senftube.6081]

23 minutes ago, Leger.3724 said:

 

That would be Arena Net's job and not mine.

 

All I know is it's too easy for certain classes to do certain things that are either:

A) blatantly OP

B) toxic

 

And thief falls into category B.

 

You hate this class and that is the problem and not because the class is OP.  Thief is pretty shallow now and will be in Warrior state tomorrow. 10 years of nerfs guys.

[Leger.3724]

44 minutes ago, Yunari.9065 said:

 

You hate this class and that is the problem and not because the class is OP.  Thief is pretty shallow now and will be in Warrior state tomorrow. 10 years of nerfs guys.

 

I want good gameplay to be rewarded and when the thief has a bunch of "OOOOOOOOOOOOOPS" buttons for when they get punished by my skilled play... I am going to feel a type of way about that.

 

In League of Legends flash is the "ooops" button. It has a 5 minute cooldown after usage and anyone can bring flash into their match. So if I determine following up on their oops button with my own flash is worth securing a kill, I can do that.

 

 

Edited October 4, 2022 by Leger.3724

[Jugglemonkey.8741]

22 minutes ago, Leger.3724 said:

 

I want good gameplay to be rewarded and when the thief has a bunch of "OOOOOOOOOOOOOPS" buttons for when they get punished by my skilled play... I am going to feel a type of way about that.

 

In League of Legends flash is the "ooops" button. It has a 5 minute cooldown after usage and anyone can bring flash into their match. So if I determine following up on their oops button with my own flash is worth securing a kill, I can do that.

 

 

I'll give up my oooooops buttons when you give up your blocks, stability, healing, invulnerability, etc. 

[Leger.3724]

4 hours ago, Jugglemonkey.8741 said:

I'll give up my oooooops buttons when you give up your blocks, stability, healing, invulnerability, etc. 

 

Yes. Teleportation and stealth are not the only problems in this game. You've just named a few others.

[Emolesbian.3170]

Current thief is like this mosquito visiting you in the middle of the night:

 

- Unsignificant.

- Physically harmless to you.

- You can get rid of it with a slap.

 

and then it hovers near your ear and starts to bzzzz bzzzz...

 

- You aknowledge it and it turns into your worst nightmare.

- Still harmless, but psychologically  an undescriptible pain.

- You wanna slap it but it vanishes in a shadowstep and come back a few moment later to bzzz bzzz the kitten out of you.

 

You wake up, turn on the light, cry at Anet to nerf that kittening mosquito. But it's no use. Mosquito goes bzzzzzzzz...