why is there no solo end-game content?

[Urud.4925]

10 hours ago, Beast Sos.1457 said:

I also beat Turai Ossa on my full berserk warrior. I personally didn't find it hard.

It's a tough content for the majority of the player base, but I didn't say that he was too easy or too difficult. I asked if you killed him repeatedly because you like solo challenging contents (even if you didn't find it hard, it's still harder than most of the soloable content) or only once because he doesn't give any reward after the first time.

10 hours ago, Beast Sos.1457 said:

"If you wouldn't bother for such low reward, it means that you are looking for a way to farm gold alone [...]". That absolutely wrong. Look at all these single player games like Dark souls for example.

Here you're saying that people play challenging content for the challenge itself, regardless of the reward, if I understand correctly. Defeating the boss is the reward.

10 hours ago, Beast Sos.1457 said:

Without proper rewards, 99% of people wouldn't bother outside the first experience. 

But here you say that a proper reward is needed. I'm confused. Really. What do you want? I have nothing against adding solo challenging content (moreover, the Pavillon is only available during the festival), so if you want that, I agree with you (and even if I didn't, I'm just a random player, like you. My approval means nothing). I'm saying that I don't think that adding a good way to farm gold playing alone will be healthy for this game.

When a player starts to play GW2 and sees those dungeons (I know, they would need some love), or open world events, at lv80, they probably expect to find some player playing them. And if they are busy farming gold in some tower, alone, the game would look dead. Until now the gold farmers shifted between Auric Basin, Dragonfall, Istan, Drizzlewood Coast, but it was fine, because even if the map changed, there were still a lot of players around, and the meta themselves were fun.

But adding a good source of gold in a solo instance would kill the purpose of an MMO. 

57 minutes ago, Drunkfrank.8795 said:

Absolutely ridiculous to see people still using the same tired old retort of "well what do you expect, ItS aN mMoRpG" 

It's not ridiculous at all. The genre died because of people like you, that want to play solo contents in a multiplayer game. Solo players (and I'm one of them now, mind you) have plenty of games to choose from, but what should people play, if they want to (occasionally)  play with other players around them and the genre is shifting towards a solo experience? Mankind sucks, and adding more options to play alone is fine. But they shouldn't be more rewarding than playing any group content imo. Otherwise old players will look for the next good MMORPG (but good luck finding it, nowadays).

/White Knight mode off

[Dragynbait.4862]

I haven't played in about a month or so, but GW2 will always hold a special place in my heart.

If/when I come back at some point, I wouldn't mind seeing some additional solo content.

I do like group content in MMORPGs, but unfortunately ~50% of the group content in this game is all about just learning where to stand at the correct times.  It was a novel idea when it was new, but it gets old fast.  Stand here when this mechanic happens.  Stand in this circle/rectangle and not in that one.  Use this type of attack when stage 2.34 happens.  Do this action at this exact time and no other.  It's all TOO ORDERLY and lends itself to folks demanding that you study the encounter in detail before actually participating in it so you know exactly what to do.  This sucks the fun and discovery out of the game.

The game's group content really needs a healthy dose of CHAOS factor at this point.

[CrashTestAuto.9108]

31 minutes ago, Urud.4925 said:

When a player starts to play GW2 and sees those dungeons (I know, they would need some love), or open world events, at lv80, they probably expect to find some player playing them. And if they are busy farming gold in some tower, alone, the game would look dead. Until now the gold farmers shifted between Auric Basin, Dragonfall, Istan, Drizzlewood Coast, but it was fine, because even if the map changed, there were still a lot of players around, and the meta themselves were fun.

But adding a good source of gold in a solo instance would kill the purpose of an MMO. 

Okay so this is probably the best argument against solo instanced content, but I think it misses some nuance to how people play, and also it's why I think a daily reward is useful.

Let's take an example of someone with a full time job and some other responsibilities.  Maybe they have 30 minutes in the day to play on a weekday, and then a lot more time on the weekend.

 

If solo dailies existed, then that person could log in during the week, do their dailies in solo without having to queue, then at the weekend, they play lots of content because they have time.

 

If solo dailies don't exist, then that person can log in during the week.  Realise they have no time to do anything, so maybe do a little farming.  Over time feel frustrated because they aren't making much progress.  Then during the week because they know they can't get much done they stop logging in, and then eventually leave.

 

Obviously these are two very extreme, very hypothetical cases, but I think they illustrate the point.  There should be a balance of options available for people who have limited time/just aren't in the mood to socialise at that moment, whilst also not making this a permanent hideaway.

 

Making strikes soloable with the exact same daily/weekly model would pretty much solve this in my opinion.  It would let people log in and solo for a bit, with decent reward, but isn't something you would just live in permanently because there's a drop off after the first completion.

[soul.9651]

3 hours ago, CrashTestAuto.9108 said:

 

 

Making strikes soloable with the exact same daily/weekly model would pretty much solve this in my opinion.  It would let people log in and solo for a bit, with decent reward, but isn't something you would just live in permanently because there's a drop off after the first completion.

I rly like the idea but it also depends how they would do that. This would create the whole new solo builds meta similar to a raids one i guess. Solo builds would finally have a use in this game too and could be used for something more than just mindless OW content and soloing hero points... But also if that would be end game content (solo version) i would be expecting challenge with no cheese strats allowed. Idk hopefully anet would consider making something like that because some of us would definetely be interested in that(and that would be intended game design aswell, not when if u wanna some challenge you have to do an old 5 man content instead, with noooo better rewards for that effort aswell)

[Sobx.1758]

6 hours ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

It may scale for solo (although how well this works out differs massively between each DRMs - some scale better, some scale worse), it may even have been announced to be for solo and group play, but it's clearly not designed for solo.

Right. Maybe you should have kept reading before writing something so obviously wrong. 

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/topic/121940-why-is-there-no-solo-end-game-content/page/7/#comment-1767226

 

16 hours ago, Albi.7250 said:

I would still argue it still ALSO group content

Not sure there's need to argue that, since I never tried saying it's not also a group content.

Edited September 29, 2022 by Sobx.1758

[Sobx.1758]

4 hours ago, CrashTestAuto.9108 said:

Making strikes soloable with the exact same daily/weekly model would pretty much solve this in my opinion.  It would let people log in and solo for a bit, with decent reward, but isn't something you would just live in permanently because there's a drop off after the first completion.

Solo lower tier fractal dailies then.

 

4 hours ago, CrashTestAuto.9108 said:

If solo dailies don't exist, then that person can log in during the week.  Realise they have no time to do anything, so maybe do a little farming. 

How are they supposed to farm or approach challenging soloable content without time to play? That's just more of false reasoning where "you don't have time to do anything", but "introduce x and suddenly there's time to do it". You either have time to play or you don't.

Another false reasoning you've used here: after saying the rewards don't need to be higher (in fact, pretty sure you've said it can be xx% of the group content), now "people doing a little farming get frustrated because they aren't making a lot of progress", but somehow... your proposed soloable content with partial rewards is supposed to help with that progress? How?  🤨

 

And there's plenty to do daily within those 30 minutes btw.

Edited September 29, 2022 by Sobx.1758

[Linken.6345]

5 hours ago, Dragynbait.4862 said:

I haven't played in about a month or so, but GW2 will always hold a special place in my heart.

If/when I come back at some point, I wouldn't mind seeing some additional solo content.

I do like group content in MMORPGs, but unfortunately ~50% of the group content in this game is all about just learning where to stand at the correct times.  It was a novel idea when it was new, but it gets old fast.  Stand here when this mechanic happens.  Stand in this circle/rectangle and not in that one.  Use this type of attack when stage 2.34 happens.  Do this action at this exact time and no other.  It's all TOO ORDERLY and lends itself to folks demanding that you study the encounter in detail before actually participating in it so you know exactly what to do.  This sucks the fun and discovery out of the game.

The game's group content really needs a healthy dose of CHAOS factor at this point.

Well is getting 9 other people like you together and doing a blind first time run really that hard?

[Luks.4230]

4 hours ago, CrashTestAuto.9108 said:

Let's take an example of someone with a full time job and some other responsibilities.  Maybe they have 30 minutes in the day to play on a weekday, and then a lot more time on the weekend.

I would suggest that mmorpgs arent for this person. This person should clearly play a single player game. The game should not be build around a person that hasnt time for the game anyways. Mmorpgs are time consuming, for that reason its obviously the wrong genre.

[Hashberry.4510]

8 pages in and its still “Find another game to play”. Lulz.

[Sobx.1758]

3 minutes ago, Hashberry.4510 said:

8 pages in and its still “Find another game to play”. Lulz.

Only if you refuse to actually read the posts in this thread, lulz.

Edited September 29, 2022 by Sobx.1758

[SlayerXX.7138]

56 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Not sure there's need to argue that, since I never tried saying it's not also a group content.

Well the clear implication was solo content failed ->prove DRMs. As such it should be mentioned that DRM's are also group content, and the failure of them doesn't prove the failure of solo content in general. especially as DRM's failed on so many levels. Only things it proves Anet kind of suck.

If you insist DRMs proves solo content shouldn't be made i have to ask you: Do you think by the same logic Anet should never make 5 man content again?

Edited September 29, 2022 by Albi.7250

[Sobx.1758]

8 minutes ago, Albi.7250 said:

Well the clear implication was solo content failed ->prove DRMs. As such it should be mentioned that DRM's are also group content, and the failure of them doesn't prove the failure of solo content in general. especially as DRM's failed on so many levels.

If you insist DRMs proves solo content shouldn't be made i have to ask you: Do you think by the same logic Anet should never make 5 man content again?

It doesn't matter it's also group content when it's clearly designed and intended as solo content as well. Not sure what you're trying to do with this now 😄

Here's a quick reminder what you wrote: "Drms aren't solo content, they are "dungeon" content that just happens to scale nicely for solo"

The response is: no, it doesn't "just happen for them to scale nicely" (which was your clear attempt to refuse acknowledging it's a solo content), they are intentionally designed to be soloable. As a solo content. Having option to scale changes nothing about it. Nobody tried arguing it doesn't scale into group content -also intentionally- so I really don't know what you're arguing about here, other than debating against the claims nobody made. 

Edited September 29, 2022 by Sobx.1758

[soul.9651]

22 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

It doesn't matter it's also group content when it's clearly designed and intended as solo content as well. Not sure what you're trying to do with this now 😄

Here's a quick reminder what you wrote: "Drms aren't solo content, they are "dungeon" content that just happens to scale nicely for solo"

The response is: no, it doesn't "just happen for them to scale nicely" (which was your clear attempt to refuse acknowledging it's a solo content), they are intentionally designed to be soloable. As a solo content. Having option to scale changes nothing about it.

Only devs themselfs can tell if they intended it (DRMs) to be as solo content aswell. Even if u are right and it was intented as solo content noone plays them not because they dont like a solo content but because the content itself wasnt made right, DRMs arent fun, they arent unique, you can tell that they have been done as a content filler without any effort when the rest of the people were working on the expansion. It doesnt matter if you play them solo or with the party people just dont like the content itself which was made with 0 effort.

If they made a proper solo high end content which would be engaging, fun, and rewarding enough that would be another story. And DRMs are the opposite in every single part.

Edited September 29, 2022 by soul.9651

[SlayerXX.7138]

26 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

It doesn't matter it's also group content when it's clearly designed and intended as solo content as well. Not sure what you're trying to do with this now

Why are you so insistent to ignore the fact that drms are also group content?  Its bad solo content it is also bad group content. Drms are generally bad. Some pages down someone made the argument Drms are prove that solo content is unpopular. As such its relevant to mention that it also is group content. And the argument that Drms prove solo content in unpopular is a dishonest one. Are you so up your own kitten that you dont understand it or are you just trolling?

Edited September 29, 2022 by Albi.7250

[Linken.6345]

18 minutes ago, Hashberry.4510 said:

Ah jeez I never read your kitten anyway, unblocked this by mistake. Stay thirsty!

No wonder you dont see the answers you probabely have most of the posters ignored so have fun in your Echo chamber bud.

[Sobx.1758]

16 minutes ago, soul.9651 said:

Only devs themselfs can tell if they intended it (DRMs) to be as solo content aswell.

...what? It was already shown in this thread that the devs did intend them to be solo content as well.

Edited September 29, 2022 by Sobx.1758

[soul.9651]

Just now, Sobx.1758 said:

...what? It was already shown in this thread that the devs did intend them to be solo.

It doesnt change the fact that people dislike them because how lazy all of them  were done

[Sobx.1758]

24 minutes ago, Albi.7250 said:

Why are you so insistent to ignore the fact that drms are also group content?

What are you even talking about? Where did I ignore that? When did I say it's not also a group content? What exactly are you even commenting on here?

24 minutes ago, Albi.7250 said:

Drms are generally bad. Some pages down someone made the argument Drms are prove that solo content is unpopular. As such its relevant to mention that it also is group content. And the argument that Drms prove solo content in unpopular is a dishonest one.

Buddy, the only "dishonest" thing here is you pretending I somehow refuse to say drms are also group content(when? where? how?) as well as flipping "180 degrees" from your "it doesn't show anything because drms aren't solo content" into "it doesn't matter becasue it also scales into group".

Edited September 29, 2022 by Sobx.1758

[Sobx.1758]

2 minutes ago, soul.9651 said:

It doesnt change the fact that people dislike them because how lazy all of them  were done

Ah, so first nothing matters "because only devs can tell", but since "devs did tell" [what you didn't want/expect them to], now it doesn't change anything. Then why did you even wrote that about "only devs can..." in your previous post if it's irrelevant? 😄

Edited September 29, 2022 by Sobx.1758

[Luks.4230]

Because clueless

[soul.9651]

3 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Ah, so first nothing matters "because only devs can tell", but since "devs did tell", it doesn't change anything. Then why did you even wrote that about "only devs can..." in your previous post if it's irrelevant? 😄

The the hell are you focusing on the beggining and ignore the rest of the post, my main point was how lazy and unfun DRMs are made in general it doesnt matter if you play them alone or with someone. Content itself there is bad thats it, nothing much else to add.

Edited September 29, 2022 by soul.9651

[Sobx.1758]

8 minutes ago, soul.9651 said:

The the hell are you focusing on the beggining and ignore the rest of the post 

In the post you've just responded to? That was the whole post.

In the previous post? Because your post clearly lacked some crucial information -and honestly, I'm not sure in what way it even responded to what I said in this thread/comment chain.

Edited September 29, 2022 by Sobx.1758

[soul.9651]

10 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

In the post you've just responded to? That was the whole post.

In the previous post? Because that was the basis for the rest of your post and that basis clearly lacked some crucial information.

What information you wanna see even?  How everyone dislikes DRMs no matter if player likes the solo or group content? How dead are DRMs at lfg too or how many negatives reviews and comments there are about them in general? DRMs are just terrible example to give to prove that "players dont like solo content"

Edited September 29, 2022 by soul.9651

[SlayerXX.7138]

2 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Waht are you even talking about? Where did I ignore that? When did I say it's not also a group content? What exactly are you even commenting on here?

So you understand it is also group content(and generally just bad) and you agree the person some pages down who named Drms as an example for the unpopularity of solo content made a dishonest argument. Yes or no?

[Sobx.1758]

9 minutes ago, Albi.7250 said:

So you understand it is also group content(and generally just bad)

I don't know why you think I need (or ever needed) any convincing about drms also being group content -not only I was fully aware of that, but I literally linked you the sentence clearly showing they are meant to be completed "either solo or in a group of up to 5 players". At what point have you reached the conclusion about me somehow refusing/not understanding it's also group content? And how does it "also scaling into group content" somehow change anything about it being solo content as well? I seriously don't know what you're trying to argue about here.

9 minutes ago, Albi.7250 said:

and you agree the person some pages down who named Drms as an example for the unpopularity of solo content made a dishonest argument. Yes or no?

No, the only dishonest thing I saw there was this post:

21 hours ago, Albi.7250 said:

They don't really have datapoints in that regard as there is no hard solo content in the game. They just have loud complains, when story(somewhat main/mandatory content) is to hard and stay on the side of caution. Drms aren't solo content, they are "dungeon" content that just happens to scale nicely for solo and even then fails thanks to the Groupfinder mechanic at the start.

Anet doesn't know if I soloed arrowhead in auric basin or just tagged it while other people did it. I Also doubt they track group numbers for dungeon or fractals to check if they are soloed.

Its a Risk the probably won't take. But to interpret Anet inaction to do something  as prove for truth seems somewhat misguided. Especially after the leaks. 

If you disagree on principal or another better reason sure. But pls don't sell DRM's as intended solo content. Or their failure, which has so many reason as a failure of solo content. Because they aren't solo content.

Where you've repeatedly -and clearly wrongfully- tried claiming it's not meant to be a solo content. Seriously, did you already forget about the posts on the preivous page? If so, then quick reminder that you also wrote this:

18 hours ago, Albi.7250 said:

kitten my life I stand corrected. Who in their right mind thought forcing a 5 minute wait to start your potential "solo" content was a good idea. Well if that is the best Anet can muster I changed my mind.

I would still argue it still ALSO group content and failed for other reasons(rewards that fall in value etc.). But that is beside the point, its probably better they never make "solo" content if that is their idea of it.

 

Suddenly none of the above matters "because it also scales up" -by what logic does it change anything here? And how is "scaling up" somehow supposed to be new here? Pretty sure nobody said it doesn't scale up, at any point.

Edited September 29, 2022 by Sobx.1758